Copyright Infringement

[Ravi]

What are torrents?

 

[Paulie]

What are torrents?

To paraphrase, they're very small files that have information on them which when executed by a Torrent program, they'll download a specific thing...such as movies, games, music, what have you.

I use a program called BitTorrent. It's the newest way to do Peer-to-Peer file sharing. You can D/L an entire movie in a matter of minutes, to a couple hours. It's frowned upon because it supposedly violates copyright laws, but I'm at a loss for understanding how that can be unless you are selling what you are downloading on the side. It's the same stupid ass argument that was made during the Napster proceedings.

 

[Shogun]

heheh

remember the days of old when the Irc was the only source for those kinds of things?

 

[Gunny]

To paraphrase, they're very small files that have information on them which when executed by a Torrent program, they'll download a specific thing...such as movies, games, music, what have you.

I use a program called BitTorrent. It's the newest way to do Peer-to-Peer file sharing. You can D/L an entire movie in a matter of minutes, to a couple hours. It's frowned upon because it supposedly violates copyright laws, but I'm at a loss for understanding how that can be unless you are selling what you are downloading on the side. It's the same stupid ass argument that was made during the Napster proceedings.

You don't think downloading someone else's copyrighted material in its entirety, whether or not is for your sole use, is a copyright infringement?

It's basically taking a product that is for sale without paying for it.

 

[jillian]

To paraphrase, they're very small files that have information on them which when executed by a Torrent program, they'll download a specific thing...such as movies, games, music, what have you.

I use a program called BitTorrent. It's the newest way to do Peer-to-Peer file sharing. You can D/L an entire movie in a matter of minutes, to a couple hours. It's frowned upon because it supposedly violates copyright laws, but I'm at a loss for understanding how that can be unless you are selling what you are downloading on the side. It's the same stupid ass argument that was made during the Napster proceedings.

Because you're stealing someone's copyrighted material.

Section 107 contains a list of the various purposes for which the reproduction of a particular work may be considered “fair,” such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, and research. Section 107 also sets out four factors to be considered in determining whether or not a particular use is fair:

the purpose and character of the use, including whether such use is of commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes;

the nature of the copyrighted work;

amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted work as a whole; and

the effect of the use upon the potential market for or value of the copyrighted work.
The distinction between “fair use” and infringement may be unclear and not easily defined. There is no specific number of words, lines, or notes that may safely be taken without permission. Acknowledging the source of the copyrighted material does not substitute for obtaining permission.

http://www.copyright.gov/fls/fl102.html

 

[Paulie]

You don't think downloading someone else's copyrighted material in its entirety, whether or not is for your sole use, is a copyright infringement?

It's basically taking a product that is for sale without paying for it.

People were copying cassette tapes back in the day, and people burn CD's and DVD's now. I mean, CD/DVD burners aren't illegal, but the actual purpose they serve is to copy material that is copyrighted, which according to many is illegal. I mean, why else would I buy a DVD burner, for instance, unless I wanted to burn DVD's? Why would I even BURN said DVD's, if not to make additional copies of originally copyrighted material for my own viewing pleasure, or the viewing pleasure of a friend, what have you?

The fact that people choose to share the things they've LEGALLY copied should not be considered a crime. While there are obviously many people who abuse it and take, take, take...there are many others who enjoy the "try before you buy" factor.

I agree that a case can be made for both sides, but there is an existing precedence within the market that I think kind of hurts the case of the anti-file sharing crowd.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Add in the fact copyright laws have been changed to nearly perpetual rights and I would argue some people ( not me, I buy) see it as a Robin Hood thing.

 

[Paulie]

Because you're stealing someone's copyrighted material.



http://www.copyright.gov/fls/fl102.html

Jillian, I'm well versed in copyright policy. I have a side business producing music, and I've copyrighted 100's of tracks. People are free to use my music for anything that isn't for profit, i.e. mixtapes, recording demos, etc.

I'm not making a dime off anything I D/L that is copyrighted.

Have you ever copied a cassette tape? Burned a CD or DVD? If so, how do you justify it against the claim you are making about copyrights? How do you justify the whole burning thing to begin with? Does Sony really think the only thing their products are going to be burning are royalty-free material? How would they even maintain a presence within the market for their products, if their products weren't being bought at mass-quantities for the purpose of consumers to copy their CD's and DVD's, including copyrighted ones?

 

[Paulie]

Add in the fact copyright laws have been changed to nearly perpetual rights and I would argue some people ( not me, I buy) see it as a Robin Hood thing.

Perhaps that is so with many file sharers, but that shouldn't have to negatively affect the file-sharers that do it with good intentions.

 

[Gunny]

People were copying cassette tapes back in the day, and people burn CD's and DVD's now. I mean, CD/DVD burners aren't illegal, but the actual purpose they serve is to copy material that is copyrighted, which according to many is illegal. I mean, why else would I buy a DVD burner, for instance, unless I wanted to burn DVD's? Why would I even BURN said DVD's, if not to make additional copies of originally copyrighted material for my own viewing pleasure, or the viewing pleasure of a friend, what have you?

The fact that people choose to share the things they've LEGALLY copied should not be considered a crime. While there are obviously many people who abuse it and take, take, take...there are many others who enjoy the "try before you buy" factor.

I agree that a case can be made for both sides, but there is an existing precedence within the market that I think kind of hurts the case of the anti-file sharing crowd.

You can buy bongs legally too, but it's STILL illegal to use them for what they are designed.

The "existing precedence" to which you refer is called copyright infringement and theft.

For someone to legally copy something they have to pay. For them to turn around and share it IS a crime because each individual copy that is not paid for is stolen material.

I'm not saying you aren't entitled to your opinion. I'm just saying it IS illegal and your opinion doesn't make it any less so. Personally, if I produced something through my efforts to sell to pay my bills, I'd be a more than a little pissed about people not paying for it.

 

[Paulie]

You can buy bongs legally too, but it's STILL illegal to use them for what they are designed.

The "existing precedence" to which you refer is called copyright infringement and theft.

For someone to legally copy something they have to pay. For them to turn around and share it IS a crime because each individual copy that is not paid for is stolen material.

I'm not saying you aren't entitled to your opinion. I'm just saying it IS illegal and your opinion doesn't make it any less so. Personally, if I produced something through my efforts to sell to pay my bills, I'd be a more than a little pissed about people not paying for it.

Perhaps so, Gunny. But anyone who's ever recorded a video cassette on a VCR they specifically bought to do that very thing with, or burned a CD or DVD, will not be telling me that I can't file share online and expect me to lend credence to their argument. I'm not saying that is you, as I have no idea if you've ever copied anything in your life, but there is certainly no shortage of hypocrits in this case.

 

[jillian]

Jillian, I'm well versed in copyright policy. I have a side business producing music, and I've copyrighted 100's of tracks. People are free to use my music for anything that isn't for profit, i.e. mixtapes, recording demos, etc.

That's *your* choice. It certainly wasn't the choice of my record company clients.

I'm not making a dime off anything I D/L that is copyrighted.

Nope... you're just obtaining it same as if you put the CD into your pocket.

Have you ever copied a cassette tape? Burned a CD or DVD? If so, how do you justify it against the claim you are making about copyrights? How do you justify the whole burning thing to begin with? Does Sony really think the only thing their products are going to be burning are royalty-free material? How would they even maintain a presence within the market for their products, if their products weren't being bought at mass-quantities for the purpose of consumers to copy their CD's and DVD's, including copyrighted ones?

I copied my own CD's onto my computer to put on my IPod. It is also fair use for someone to make a copy of their own property. (If I'm not mistaken, there's a rule about only one copy being in use at a time, but I don't recall specifically).

SONY was always silly about being so protective and, in fact, it probably hurt their market. But that isn't the issue we're discussing.

 

[Gunny]

Perhaps so, Gunny. But anyone who's ever recorded a video cassette on a VCR they specifically bought to do that very thing with, or burned a CD or DVD, will not be telling me that I can't file share online and expect me to lend credence to their argument. I'm not saying that is you, as I have no idea if you've ever copied anything in your life, but there is certainly no shortage of hypocrits in this case.

Technically, one cannot buy a videocassette for the purpose of recording it, or buy CDs/DVDs to burn them.

By "not lending credence" you are basically saying that you know the law and are going to violate anyway. The only "argument" required is that it's illegal.

Whether I have or have not copied anything in my life is irrelvant to this discussion. Whether or not I can legally justify doing so IS, and I cannot. It is illegal. If I was to do that it would be with the knowledge that is illegal and I would not be trying to justify that because I disagreed with the law it was okay to do so.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Technically, one cannot buy a videocassette for the purpose of recording it, or buy CDs/DVDs to burn them.

By "not lending credence" you are basically saying that you know the law and are going to violate anyway. The only "argument" required is that it's illegal.

Whether I have or have not copied anything in my life is irrelvant to this discussion. Whether or not I can legally justify doing so IS, and I cannot. It is illegal. If I was to do that it would be with the knowledge that is illegal and I would not be trying to justify that because I disagreed with the law it was okay to do so.

Actually most games especially those downloaded over the internet are usually specific in that you have the right to make backup copies. Some are specific and say one, most say just back up.

And it is legal to copy stuff on the TV for your private viewing. In fact my newest state of the art box for receiving Time Warner has AS a feature the ability to copy hard coded into it with dedicated memory for that purpose. And a program to schedule what you want to copy.

Before the record industry went stupid it was legal to copy for the purpose of private use of the owner music, in fact there used to be campaigns encouraging you to copy your records to tape and even tape to CD.

Now the internet is a real problem. I can understand a concern with the ability to copy material from anywhere to anywhere. That no longer is a good faith assumption it is for your own personal use only.

 

[jillian]

Actually most games especially those downloaded over the internet are usually specific in that you have the right to make backup copies. Some are specific and say one, most say just back up.

And it is legal to copy stuff on the TV for your private viewing. In fact my newest state of the art box for receiving Time Warner has AS a feature the ability to copy hard coded into it with dedicated memory for that purpose. And a program to schedule what you want to copy.

Before the record industry went stupid it was legal to copy for the purpose of private use of the owner music, in fact there used to be campaigns encouraging you to copy your records to tape and even tape to CD.

Now the internet is a real problem. I can understand a concern with the ability to copy material from anywhere to anywhere. That no longer is a good faith assumption it is for your own personal use only.

That's actually a good description of fair use.

 

[Shogun]

VIVA LA PIRATES!


the lars ulrich's out there can suck my dick.

 

[Dogger]

VIVA LA PIRATES!


the lars ulrich's out there can suck my dick.

If you get caught with illegal downloads, maybe your cellmate can do that for you.

And Paulitics: a crime is a crime no matter how many people engage in it. You should listen to Jillian.

 

[Ravi]

If you get caught with illegal downloads, maybe your cellmate can do that for you.

And Paulitics: a crime is a crime no matter how many people engage in it. You should listen to Jillian.

Absolutely. Making an effort to change the law is acceptable. Breaking it isn't.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

If you get caught with illegal downloads, maybe your cellmate can do that for you.

And Paulitics: a crime is a crime no matter how many people engage in it. You should listen to Jillian.

A crime is also a crime even if no one gets caught. Just like one can break the law and never get caught. Might want to be careful with these statements though, your leftoid buddies have made claims that one can not commit a crime unless caught AND convicted.

And stated that if the Government never charges you, you never broke the law or committed a crime.

Can you guess who they were defending with these claims?

 

[Shogun]

If you get caught with illegal downloads, maybe your cellmate can do that for you.

And Paulitics: a crime is a crime no matter how many people engage in it. You should listen to Jillian.

yea.. build that prison, dude. you might need a couple MILLION cells.


HA!


get caught with illegal downloads.




welcome to the fucking machine. I was laughing at the self righteous indignation back when the argument focused on cassette tapes, blank vhs tapes, and cdr media.