Coolest Summer I can remember...

[Valerie]

It's barely broken 90F most days here in north Florida.

Last summer was also cool. We had lots of rain. The people bitched and complained, but I didn't mind.

sure beats being on fire!

 

[MaryL]

In Colorado...

Anyone else experiencing the same?...

Spring was downright cold.



peace...

I live in Colorado too, for the last 55+ years. The last 15 years have been rather toasty. Not to mention all the forest fires in the last few years, since the Hayman fire. The smoke and ashes. Up until a few short moths ago, it's been rather...warm up in here, as the kids say. But it has been of lately, cool. For a few short days. The polar vortex and all that. But it's supposed to get rather warm and back to the dry 90's for the rest of the summer. Let's see where that goes. Global warming back on track.

 

[MaryL]

I lived through the flood of 65, my daddy (born and bred in Denver) held me and reassured me that I wouldn't be harmed. My dad was my hero, served in WWII and was wounded in WWII and received a purple heart and all that. I have seen the climate change here. In more ways than one. Politically, morally, ethically, any way you choose. This isn't what I saw as the future in 2014.

 

[Crick]

My point here is that Kosh's unattributed graphic is a complete lie.

If there are peer reviewed studies from all over the globe that confirm warmer periods in the past 11,000 years or so, it is still a lie, even though it is accurate?

If I wanted to look at our best estimates of global temperatures during the Holocene, I would at the work of Marcott and Shakun, not Kosh's crap.

You would pick one over dozens that say something else? Why, because the dozens don't say what you want to hear?

At this point in time, Shakun and Marcott's work is the best that's been done. If you have other peer reviewed studies, let's see the links.

have stated on numerous occasions that I do not particularly care that temperatures have been high or even higher in the distant past. I care more to see what human civilization has been through, particularly modern human civilization. But, even there, at no time in the past has human culture existed in the state in which it exists today, re population, population distribution, food and water supplies, military tensions, other environmental stressors and so forth. I will not be comforted to find it was warm in 1100 AD and neither should you.

If temperatures have been higher in the past, without human help, you can't make a rational argument that it is humans this time based on some untested, unprovable hypothesis based on politics rather than science. You don't know why it was warmer in the past, and you don't know why it is warmer now. You are making politically motivated guesses.

Your logic is that of a second grader. The greenhouse effect is based on science, complete with predictions, experimentation and repeatability. No politics involved. That their have been periods in the past in which it warmed without greenhouse gases to get the ball rolling is simply an indication that other factors (like Milankovitch cycles) can warm the planet. It is most assuredly NOT an indication that no other cause is possible. Again, no politics involved.

I am not making politically motivated guesses. I am taking the opinions of the world's experts in this field as having merit. You seem to be assuming - without evidence - that the opinion of the world's experts is flawed. You have accepted a view regarding AGW that is NOT supported by the world's experts, that is NOT supported by successful predictions, experimentation or repeatability. And, not surprisingly, there is a much stronger political correlation to your opinion than there is to mine. I guarantee you that the 97% of climate scientists that accept AGW includes a fair number of Republicans.

 

[joshuah]

The amount of acres burned in the Northwest Territories is six times greater than the 25-year average to-date according to data from the Canadian Interagency Forest Fire Center

Interesting, I'll have to look up those stats. I know US wildfires this year are on the lowest pace of the last 11+ years. CA is bigger and probably less influenced by man-caused fires.

National Interagency Fire Center

 

[SSDD]

Forest Fires In Northwest Canada Burning At 'Unprecedented' Levels

Perhaps not surprisingly then, the current Northwest Territories fires have been fueled by hot and dry weather. Yellowknife’s June high temperatures were 3.8°F above normal highs while rainfall was only 15 percent of normal. Through July 15, high temperatures have been running 4°F above July averages and the city has only seen 2 percent of its normal rainfall for the month. While these conditions can't be tied specifically to climate change, they're in line with those trends.

The fires have shut down parts of territory’s Highway 3, a main thoroughfare, and inundated Yellowknife with a thick haze of smoke and ash. The city’s 19,000 residents are also under a health warning. At points last week, the smoke plume was whisked south across the provinces of Alberta and Saskatchewan and even reaching the Dakotas, 2,000 miles away.

I went up that highway in 1975. Wonderful place, Yellowknife.

Of the 186 wildfires in the Northwest Territories to-date this year, 156 of them are currently burning. That includes the Birch Creek Fire complex, which stretches over 250,000 acres.

The amount of acres burned in the Northwest Territories is six times greater than the 25-year average to-date according to data from the Canadian Interagency Forest Fire Center.

Boreal forests like those in the Northwest Territories are burning at rates "unprecedented" in the past 10,000 years according to the authors of a study put out last year. The northern reaches of the globe are warming at twice the rate as areas closer to the equator, and those hotter conditions are contributing to more widespread burns.

The combined boreal forests of Canada, Europe, Russia and Alaska, account for 30 percent of the world’s carbon stored in land, carbon that's taken up to centuries to store. Forest fires like those currently raging in the Northwest Territories, as well as ones in 2012 and 2013 in Russia, can release that stored carbon into the atmosphere and contribute to global warming. Warmer temperatures can in turn create a feedback loop, priming forests for wildfires that release more carbon into the atmosphere and cause more warming. The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change's landmark climate report released earlier this year indicates that for every 1.8°F rise in temperatures, wildfire activity is expected to double.

Typical climate change hysteria and complete malarky. I guess those government funded idiot researchers never bothered to actually check with the fire service regarding what is normal in forest fires. There is actually a set of four fire regimes and the current fires are certainly not unprecedented according to that set of regimes.

People are being increasingly turned off by you idiots because it is all climate change hysteria all the time...everything is unprecedented to you people and you could get away with it at one time but now even the homeless can visit a library and fact check your crap in a matter of minutes and see that everything you say is a lie.


Frequent, low-severity fires are those that recur, on average, every 30 years or less, and kill less than 80% of the overstory trees each time (Brown 2000). These fires tend to carry through the forest understory and therefore do not substantially change the structure of the dominant forest vegetation.

Moderate-frequency, mixed-severity fire regimes are characterized by fires with average fire-free intervals ranging from about 30 to 100 years (Arno et al. 2000), whereas infrequent, mixed-severity fire regimes are characterized by fires that recur at average intervals greater than 100 years. Mixed severity fires either cause selective mortality of dominant vegetation, depending on different tree species' susceptibility to fire, or vary between low and high severity in space or time (Brown 2000).

infrequent, high-severity fires tend to recur at intervals of 100 to 400 years in the northern Rocky Mountains. Few of the overstory trees (<20%, Brown 2000) survive most fires. By killing most overstory trees, such fires usually set the stage for the generation of new forests, which is why they are also commonly referred to as "stand-replacement" burns (Smith and Fischer 1997). These fires often burn through tree crowns, leaving swaths of charred, standing dead trees in their wake. However, some fires that carry though the understory may kill a sufficient number of overstory trees to be considered high-severity. Typically these "lethal" understory fires kill trees by burning slowly or deep enough into the ground to damage tree roots or other crucial low tissue.

By the way, your "unprecedented' fire is stretched through (not has consumed) 250,000 acres. As recently as 2002, a fire in the Syskiyou National Forest actually burned 500,000 acres. Unprecedented my ass.

And as fires in Canada go, the present fire is small time. An estimated 3 million acres burned in 1825 and a fire in northern Ontario burned almost 700,000 acres in 1948 and produced smoke so dense that the streetlights in Texas turned on. Then in 1911 another fire burned almost 500,000 acres.

In Alberta, 2001 a fire burned almost 300,000 acres.

A series of fires in Alaska in 2004 burned nearly 5 million acres.

The only thing unprecedented regarding the climate is how low you people will go in an effort to scare people...people who, by the way are laughing at you.

 

[SSDD]

At this point in time, Shakun and Marcott's work is the best that's been done. If you have other peer reviewed studies, let's see the links.

Based on what?...the fact that it supports your position? That paper was a joke and their fabrication was discovered within hours of the paper's release.

Hell, here is one just published in Patern Recognition in Physics that looks art more than 250 proxy studies across the globe and finds that the MWP was both global and warmer than the present.

http://pattern-recognition-in-physics.com/pub/prp-2-36-2014.pdf

From the applied viewpoint, the values and the significance of the TVP estimation are satisfactory in most cases, while temperature breaks and peaks suggest widespread
rejection of the hockey-stick hypothesis. In fact,
single break points in no case detect structural change at or around RWP dates, while less than 10% of the highest peak dates of the CCP series enter the 20th century. Rather, temperature breaks and peaks are centered within the Middle Ages so that, given the large geographical scope covered by the available data, we may conclude that the MWP was a global phenomenon significantly warmer than the RWP, as demonstrated also by the large amount of referenced authors.

How many more would you like and from which areas of the world...You name the regions and I will provide the published studies finding that the present isn't unprecedented or even unusual.

logic is that of a second grader. The greenhouse effect is based on science, complete with predictions, experimentation and repeatability.

Bullshit....a long list of failed predictions...no experiment that demonstrates the hypothesis...nor has the greenhouse effect ever been measured or quantified...and repeatability is a joke because climate scientists won't release their data because someone might find something wrong with it....I am laughing out loud....great donkey laughs in your face crick ham...you have indeed become a first class joke.

No politics involved.

Are you that blind and stupid or that big of a liar?

 

[SSDD]

CA is bigger and probably less influenced by man-caused fires.

Population density in the Northwest Territories: 0.03 persons/km^2
Population density in California: 89.83 persons/km^2

Land area of the Northwest Territories: 1,183,000 km^2
Land area of California: 404,043 km^2

The Northwest Territories are almost three times the size of California and have almost 1/34,000th the population density. I think California is many orders of magnitude more likely to suffer "man-caused fires".

He was talking about canada, not california you idiot.

 

[Old Rocks]

The amount of acres burned in the Northwest Territories is six times greater than the 25-year average to-date according to data from the Canadian Interagency Forest Fire Center

Interesting, I'll have to look up those stats. I know US wildfires this year are on the lowest pace of the last 11+ years. CA is bigger and probably less influenced by man-caused fires.

National Interagency Fire Center

That was yesterday.

NWCC :: Home

?Cauldron of Hell? as Fires Rage Across Washington State - ABC News

 

[Old Rocks]

Worst wildfire season in decades in Canada?s Northwest Territories | Alaska Dispatch

According to the Canadian Interagency Forest Fire Center, there have been 31 new fires in the past 24 hours across Canada, over 2,500 so far this year and well over 2.47 million acres burned to date, early in the season.

According to Flannigan, in recent years, about 8,000 fires burn about 4.9 million acres of land each year in Canada. That&#8217;s about double the annual average of just 40 years ago, he says.

Canada&#8217;s senior climatologist, Dave Phillips, says the southern Northwest Territories is experiencing the hottest, driest summer in some 50 years.

The extremely hot dry weather in the interior and north of British Columbia is now contributing to the spread of a number of fires in that west coast province.

Phillips adds the kind of weather seen this year is what global warming modeling predicted for 40 years from now.

Looks like ol' STDD doesn't know what he is talking about.

 

[Crick]

CA is bigger and probably less influenced by man-caused fires.

Population density in the Northwest Territories: 0.03 persons/km^2
Population density in California: 89.83 persons/km^2

Land area of the Northwest Territories: 1,183,000 km^2
Land area of California: 404,043 km^2

The Northwest Territories are almost three times the size of California and have almost 1/34,000th the population density. I think California is many orders of magnitude more likely to suffer "man-caused fires".

He was talking about canada, not california you idiot.

I see. Mea culpa.

 

[mamooth]

Hell, here is one just published in Patern Recognition in Physics

Oh, you mean the Journal that was shuttered and disavowed by the publisher, to preserve their reputation, after they found the denier editors were using it for brazen pal review of bad science.

PRP - Home

Ironic, it is, that the deniers who accuse others of pal review so readily are actually the ones who get caught doing it over and over. If a denier accuses mainstream scientists of something bad, it's almost always because they've been the ones doing it. They can't imagine anyone else isn't as dishonest as themselves.

(Naturally, deniers claim the closing of the journal was part of the vast conspiracy against them.)

How many more would you like and from which areas of the world...You name the regions and I will provide the published studies finding that the present isn't unprecedented or even unusual.

You mean you'll cherrypick one year in one spot and claim it means something. Those outside of your cult instantly recognize the deception you're attempting.

 

[Darp]

City by city in tiny data, but the big data does show Global Warming models were wrong over last 15 years.

Solar activity in a big driver of earth temps. The sun has gone quiet, check on the sun spot photos in last week, search on SUN GONE QUIET to find the articles about that.

 

[Darp]

Flashback from the Washington Post, July 9, 1971, a NASA scientist using a "computer program developed by Dr. James Hansen" predicted an ice age would occur within 50-60 years.

Yes that is the exact same chief scientist for Al Gore, his computer models were wrong then and wrong today

 

[mamooth]

City by city in tiny data, but the big data does show Global Warming models were wrong over last 15 years.

Since the data shows strong warming, I wonder who feeds you such nonsense.

Solar activity in a big driver of earth temps. The sun has gone quiet, check on the sun spot photos in last week, search on SUN GONE QUIET to find the articles about that.

The earth is warming strongly, and you blame it on a quiet sun? That makes no sense. If temps keep rising even as the sun is cooling, that makes the case for global warming even more strongly.

 

[mamooth]

Flashback from the Washington Post, July 9, 1971, a NASA scientist using a "computer program developed by Dr. James Hansen" predicted an ice age would occur within 50-60 years.

Yes that is the exact same chief scientist for Al Gore, his computer models were wrong then and wrong today

Some denier urban legends just won't die. No matter how often your debunk them, there's always a new generation of brainwashed denier cultists anxious to repeat them.

 

[skookerasbil]

Another non-summer day here in New York!! Mid-July and I'm considering just wearing jeans and not shorts down in Port Jefferson tonight. Fucked up. For my whole life tomorrow would be a no-brainer beach day but perhaps not tomorrow.......this blows. In desperate need of some global warming here in New York!!

 

[Toro]

It's been wonderfully cool here in north Florida. Well, relatively speaking. It's been barely above the 90s this week. I might have to put on a jacket when I go cycling tonight!

 

[SSDD]

Looks like ol' STDD doesn't know what he is talking about.

So now its decades...not unprecedented in history...looks more like you and yours lied in an effort to scare people.

 

[SSDD]

Hell, here is one just published in Patern Recognition in Physics

Oh, you mean the Journal that was shuttered and disavowed by the publisher, to preserve their reputation, after they found the denier editors were using it for brazen pal review of bad science.

PRP - Home

Ironic, it is, that the deniers who accuse others of pal review so readily are actually the ones who get caught doing it over and over. If a denier accuses mainstream scientists of something bad, it's almost always because they've been the ones doing it. They can't imagine anyone else isn't as dishonest as themselves.

(Naturally, deniers claim the closing of the journal was part of the vast conspiracy against them.)

How many more would you like and from which areas of the world...You name the regions and I will provide the published studies finding that the present isn't unprecedented or even unusual.

You mean you'll cherrypick one year in one spot and claim it means something. Those outside of your cult instantly recognize the deception you're attempting.

Got anything to say about the content of the paper or is a logical fallacy all you are capable of?