Complete this sequence

[Anguille]

Unless you count the Mormons going door to door, and they generally just hand out their pamphlets and move on. Most of the people I know who worship know where I stand on religion and respect me as I respect them. I don't try to convert them, and they pray for my soul, LOL!!

You must live in a more tolerant part of the country than I do.

But honestly, doesn't it peeve you just a tiny bit when someone rings your doorbell and interrupts your Saturday afternoon nap to try to sell you heavenly bliss when just a few seconds ago you were already there?

 

[Ravi]

I thought it was the Jehovah Witnesses that went door to door...or are they the same thing as Mormons?

 

[Shogun]

[youtube]7E0_oiTFiJA[/youtube]

 

[AllieBaba]

This Present Darkness - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Frank E. Peretti

Baba, youd like this author, i bet.

It looks good. I always am of two minds when it comes to faith-based fiction, however. I do enjoy it, and I've toyed with the thought of writing it...but then I'm not sure if that's really the right thing to do.

But I'm going to the library today, I'll see if they have it. I'm all about books on CD these days, with the hours I spend in the state car. Kinda cool and gives me a break from static-y Rush, annoying O'Reilly and psycho Michael Savage.

 

[AllieBaba]

wishful thinking at its finest.


"matter of fact"...

See, you'll be a soul worth having, Shogun. When you're saved, it will blow you away.

 

[AllieBaba]

I don't ENTIRELY discount that there is a personification of good and/or evil in the universe.

I just doubt they have to life a finger (even one that can write stuff with a firely finger in stone!) to make some people act decently most of the time and others of us like apostates of hell most of the time.

Perhaps my expectations are inappropriately low, but I now consider it a miracle if people are merely decent to me...not kind and generous, merely polite will do.

And I don't fault GOD or LUCIFER if they're not, either.

Free will and all that, you know.

To the extent that I understand how the minds works, I presume that most of the crap that happens I can lay at MANKIND'S doorstep.

I've heard it put this way a couple of times, and it really does capture the essence of faith and God the best.

Yes we have free will. But that does not mean that God still doesn't control the universe. Our problem is that we are looking so closely at the painting, we can't see the whole picture. To see how everything works together, you have to step far, far back. And only God can do that, and has done it. He knows what has been, what is now, and what will be...but we still have free will. He just knows what we'll choose ahead of time.

To take it a little further, it all ties in with mathematics and time warps and all that, if you choose to see things that way. But ultimately, we'll come to understand that all that fascinating stuff exists because God made it that way.

I read "Panic in Level 4" and I recommend it to EVERYONE. It's by the author of the Hot Zone, and it is a collection of his various scientific/mathematic journalistic endeavors....the common thread through it all is that mathematics explains EVERYTHING...and to understand mathematics is to understand the mind of God. We can never completely reach that understanding (and he never actually puts forth the theory about God) but we get glimmers of it through talented, brilliant, and inspired scientists.

For example, he shows a graph of pi...and do you know what it looks like? It looks like a beautiful landscape picture. An uninhabited landscape, a beautiful picture of a beautiful piece of the world. Likewise, investigation into the roots of pi led to the development of supercomputers which can use the information they have acquired to restructure works of art...and delve into the science of genetics, and the creation of man. It's incredible.

Science will take you directly to God, I believe...which is why I have no problem with scientific endeavors, particularly in mathematics and genetics. However, I don't believe those endeavors should include the killing of babies or the harvesting of embryos. It can all be done abstractly and using computers and mathematical minds only....human minds, which in their best and truest forms, mirror the mind of God.

Which is why I don't resent Shogun most of the time. He's using an analytical approach to God..and if he continues down that road, honestly and with a true desire to understand his universe, he'll find him.

 

[Shogun]

See, you'll be a soul worth having, Shogun. When you're saved, it will blow you away.

it's too bad the concept of a "soul" is a man made concept to describe that which has ever been proven.

 

[Anguille]

it's too bad the concept of a "soul" is a man made concept to describe that which has ever been proven.

I thought she was saying that your soul is a goodfella that's going to rub you out.

 

[CA95380]

I thought it was the Jehovah Witnesses that went door to door...or are they the same thing as Mormons?

Shit! Ravi made me do it again!



/Ignore Ravi!

/Ignore Ravi!

/Ignore Ravi!

 

[hjmick]

You must live in a more tolerant part of the country than I do.

But honestly, doesn't it peeve you just a tiny bit when someone rings your doorbell and interrupts your Saturday afternoon nap to try to sell you heavenly bliss when just a few seconds ago you were already there?

It used to, but I started leaving my dogs out in the yard and they stopped.

Truthfully, it never really bothered me. They are just doing what is expected of them by their faith, none of them were pushy when I politely accepted their pamphlet while telling them I had no interest, they were respectful and moved on. No harm, no foul. I honestly can not remember the last time A Mormon on a mission knocked on my door, nor can I remember the last time a born-again tried to convert me.

I have heard more horror stories about born-agains than I have about Mormons.

Perhaps it is the influence of the Catholic faith in my early childhood, perhaps it's just the way I am, but I truly do respect the beliefs of others. It's just not for me.

 

[Ravi]

Shit! Ravi made me do it again!



/Ignore Ravi!

/Ignore Ravi!

/Ignore Ravi!

There's a button that lets you do that. Why are you flaming me, btw? Aren't you disproving what you posted on the truth offends thread? Or do you only apply your standards to others?

 

[Eightball]

I thought it was the Jehovah Witnesses that went door to door...or are they the same thing as Mormons?

Jehovah's Witnesses (Watch Tower) are a totally different religion from Mormonism (Later Day Saints).

Both groups have a unbiblical or unscriptural definition of the nature of Jesus Christ.

Jehovah's Witnesses believe that Jesus was once the Angel Michael, and thus a created being and isn't God in the flesh, incarnate.

Mormons believe that Jesus was the Spirit brother or sibling of Lucifer, and God the father chose Jesus to be the Savior of our world and Lucifer got snubbed and became angered in nature. Joseph Smith Jr. came up with this Jesus/definition.

The Jehovah's Witnesses have their own bible called the New World Translation. It conveniently omits any references in the N.T. to Jesus being God incarnate.

Example, they Buggerd up John 1:1, and changed Jesus from being God to being "a god".

1. "In the beginning was the Word(Christ), and the Word(Christ) was with God, and the Word(Christ) was God." New American Standard Bible -NASB

1. In the beginning was the word(Christ), and the word(Christ) was with God, and the word(Christ) was "a" god.
********
It's very subtle, but it reveals J.W.'s doctrine, that is totally debunked by theologians. i.e. Jesus= a god. Not, is God.

 

[Ravi]

Jehovah's Witnesses (Watch Tower) are a totally different religion from Mormonism (Later Day Saints).

Both groups have a unbiblical or unscriptural definition of the nature of Jesus Christ.

Jehovah's Witnesses believe that Jesus was once the Angel Michael, and thus a created being and isn't God in the flesh, incarnate.

Mormons believe that Jesus was the Spirit brother or sibling of Lucifer, and God the father chose Jesus to be the Savior of our world and Lucifer got snubbed and became angered in nature. Joseph Smith Jr. came up with this Jesus/definition.

The Jehovah's Witnesses have their own bible called the New World Translation. It conveniently omits any references in the N.T. to Jesus being God incarnate.

Example, they Buggerd up John 1:1, and changed Jesus from being God to being "a god".

1. "In the beginning was the Word(Christ), and the Word(Christ) was with God, and the Word(Christ) was God." New American Standard Bible -NASB

1. In the beginning was the word(Christ), and the word(Christ) was with God, and the word(Christ) was "a" god.
********
It's very subtle, but it reveals J.W.'s doctrine, that is totally debunked by theologians. i.e. Jesus= a god. Not, is God.

Thank you. I've seen them walking around and giving out the Watchtower but who is that group of people, usually guys on bikes with white shirts and ties, are they Mormons?

 

[random3434]

Jehovah's Witnesses (Watch Tower) are a totally different religion from Mormonism (Later Day Saints).

Both groups have a unbiblical or unscriptural definition of the nature of Jesus Christ.

Jehovah's Witnesses believe that Jesus was once the Angel Michael, and thus a created being and isn't God in the flesh, incarnate.

Mormons believe that Jesus was the Spirit brother or sibling of Lucifer, and God the father chose Jesus to be the Savior of our world and Lucifer got snubbed and became angered in nature. Joseph Smith Jr. came up with this Jesus/definition.

The Jehovah's Witnesses have their own bible called the New World Translation. It conveniently omits any references in the N.T. to Jesus being God incarnate.

Example, they Buggerd up John 1:1, and changed Jesus from being God to being "a god".

1. "In the beginning was the Word(Christ), and the Word(Christ) was with God, and the Word(Christ) was God." New American Standard Bible -NASB

1. In the beginning was the word(Christ), and the word(Christ) was with God, and the word(Christ) was "a" god.
********
It's very subtle, but it reveals J.W.'s doctrine, that is totally debunked by theologians. i.e. Jesus= a god. Not, is God.

That's very interesting.

You do know that Jehovah's Witness followers don't celebrate any holidays, birthdays or say the pledge.

Do you know why that is? Just curious.

 

[Eightball]

That's very interesting.

You do know that Jehovah's Witness followers don't celebrate any holidays, birthdays or say the pledge.

Do you know why that is? Just curious.

Basically they take a very legalistic approach to venerating God, whom they will only call Jehovah, as they believe that calling Him by any other name is wrong.

The see any objects that are used in celebrating biblically based holidays as blasphemous...i.e. Christmas trees, crosses, etc... Basically they see this as "idol worship".....That also goes for pledging allegiance to the American flag. A true following J.W. will not do the pledge nor put his/her hand on their heart. They see all these things as idol worship. It is a very legalistic approach.

Similarly the Seventh Day Adventists worship on Saturdays, as they claim that God truly rested on the 7th day, and that is Saturday, not Sunday. Well, that is true, but Christians worship on the first day of the week as they are recognizing it as the day of ressurrection of Christ. The Apostle Paul had a great "tussle" with whom he called Judiazers. These were Jews that often had converted to Christianity, but tried to influence the gentile believers in the same church to follow Jewish customs or precepts left over from the time that the "Law" was in force before Jesus nulified it as the main back drop of faith. Jesus fullfilled the Law in his death, burial and ressurrection, freeing man from living by the law, but now having the "law" written in their hearts via the indwelling Holy Spirit.

J.W.'s also interpret the 144,000 people in Revelations as the most devoted and specially picked by Jehovah to be with him in heaven. The rest of the J.W.'s must reside on planet earth that will become more of a paradise.

The bicyclists, with dark slacks, short sleave, white dress shirts and ties, are Mormons. They normally travel in two's, with one of them being an stake elder, and the other a trainee, or a young Mormon doing a "mission".

Temple Mormons are those who are deemed the very obedient and good ones, and have gone through an initiation process in one of their regional temples. The ceremony is closed to public or non-temple Mormons. The rituals were established by Joseph Smith Jr., and mimick Freemasonry initiations almost to a "T"... There are secret hand shakes given or passed on also aprons are worn in the Freemasonry tradition. Why? Well, Joseph Smith Jr. was believed to have been a 33rd degree Freemason.

The result of the Temple process is receiving the Aaronic Priesthood, which they/Mormons see as a great level or honor in their religion.

Mainstream biblica scolars and denominations do not recognize Mormonism as Christian, nor do they recognize J.W. as Christian.

The main pivot point or deciding point is what religions that claim to be "Christian" do with the nature of Jesus Christ. Do they accept what bible says about Him, or do they defray to some other definition by changing scripture wording via their own translation, or just plain have doctrinal statements in other venerated publications for teaching their followers that are aberrant.
********
There are many large churches in this country and throughout the world that claim to be "Christian" in doctrine and teaching yet have warped, changed, redefined according to their own agenda, and not God's, their definition of Christ's nature and teachings.
******
Again, the only important measuring point of a church is what they do with Jesus. Do they allow Him to be who He is as revealed in scripture, or do they change Him or his teachings in anyway, that goes against obvious scriptural interpretation.

 

[random3434]

Thank you again for all that information eightball! How do you know so much, if I may ask?

It's interesting to me to learn about how others worship. I am more of a private person in how I worship, but I try not to judge others in the way they do it.

 

[AllieBaba]

Do you know what I recently discovered? And I'll have to remember this the next time I get razzed about the Crusades...

Protestants are NOT all non-Catholic Christians. I did not realize that until recently. Protestantism denotes one of the religions that broke with the Catholic church (Episcopalians, Lutherans, the Church of England) but remain essentially Catholic at the core.

Baptists, however, have always existed, before the Catholics and since, and are not Protestants. We were never a part of the Catholic church.

I think that's pretty interesting.

 

[Eightball]

Thank you again for all that information eightball! How do you know so much, if I may ask?

It's interesting to me to learn about how others worship. I am more of a private person in how I worship, but I try not to judge others in the way they do it.

As Christians we are not called to "judge" per se, but we are called to utilize good judgement, common sense and discernment, based on scriptural influence/understanding.

I know a few very devoted Christians that will not answer the door if a Mormon or J.W. comes knocking. Myself, I find it more of a divine appointment. They are loved by God, as I am, but I truly believe that they are misguided and need to be accepted as fellow human beings. I will often discourse with these folks if I'm not in some hurray or in the middle of some important thing.

I often like to play "stupid" and ask them basic questions about their faith as though I'm wondering about it from a Newbee's angle. I will ask them questions that hit at the heart of their aberrant unbiblical doctorine, but in subtle ways. This often stimulates interest in them and we end up having a spirited conversation. When Paul said be innocent as doves but sly as serpents, he didn't mean for Christians to be sly, sinful and deceitful, but rather to not be so assertive with those that don't believe that you would cause them to be turned-off by Christianity via your actions.

Being a Christian is a big responsibility. The non-Christian world watches us through a microscope. You do know that everytime a Christian leader of notoriety falters or sins and it is made publically known, it creates a great deal of commotion and anti-Christian foment. Hypocrisy is the bane of Christians. They/we talk a good talk, but often hypocritically act like we don't have the Spirit of God indwelling our souls.

Truly, if your a Christian, your observed more than you realize. Your co-workers observe you, your boss, your neignbors...........relatives.............anyone who knows that you are a Christian. They are truly watching to see if this thing called Christianity is all its stacked up to be. We are ambassadors for Christ. That in the bible. That entails a great deal of responsibility. It means that are lives and actions can turn people away from possibly become Christians, or not. That should make any true Christian tremble with humility and humbleness.
**
As for my knowledge of the various Christian and Non-Christian cults........religions.......I've just done a lot of study........and did a stint in bible college many years ago.

I also was involved in a lay-counseling ministry too.
********
I like reading books on the lives of many saints of old, like George Mueller, who built all the orphanages in Bristol England........and never raised the money himself but made a pact with God to trust Him to provide and he/Mueller would pray every day for the funds and means to build these orphanages. The book is "Answers to Prayer" and is basically a diary excerpt from Mueller.

John Pieretti's "This present darknes" was obviously a fiction novel, yet I found it very entertaining. Although Peretti hasn't seen the unseen spiritual world anymore than me, it still was entertaining. I've avoided Tim LaHay's books on the end times, as I feel that the most important times for a Christian to dwell or devote too are the "now" times, and being "salt and light" as Christ called us to be.

 

[Anguille]

Do you know what I recently discovered? And I'll have to remember this the next time I get razzed about the Crusades...

Protestants are NOT all non-Catholic Christians. I did not realize that until recently. Protestantism denotes one of the religions that broke with the Catholic church (Episcopalians, Lutherans, the Church of England) but remain essentially Catholic at the core.

Baptists, however, have always existed, before the Catholics and since, and are not Protestants. We were never a part of the Catholic church.

I think that's pretty interesting.

Baptist - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"Origins
There are two main views about the origins of the Baptists: Baptist origins in the 16th and 17th centuries and Baptist perpetuity.


Viewpoint: Baptist origins in the 16th and 17th centuries
Some see the Baptists as the descendants of the 16th century Anabaptists (which some view as a product of the Protestant Reformation and others view as a continuation of the older pre-Reformation non-Catholic churches). Johannes Warns states that the first independent Baptist Church was that at Augsburg, Germany, in about 1524.[12] Others see the Baptists as a separation from the Church of England in the early 1600s.[13]

Puritan separatists John Smyth and Thomas Helwys are acknowledged by numerous historians as key founders of the modern Baptist denomination. The early Baptists were divided into General Baptists who were Arminian in theology, and Particular Baptists who were Calvinistic in theology.[14][15][16]

According to Baptist historian H. Leon McBeth, Baptists, as a distinct denomination, originated in England in a time of intense religious reform. McBeth writes, “Our best historical evidence says that Baptists came into existence in England in the early seventeenth century. They apparently emerged out of the Puritan-Separatist movement in the Church of England.”[13]


Viewpoint: Baptist perpetuity
Main article: Baptist successionism
The Baptist perpetuity view (also known as Baptist succession) holds that the church founded by Christ in Jerusalem was Baptist in character and that like churches have had perpetual existence from the days of Christ to the present. This view is theologically based on Matthew 16:18, where Jesus is speaking to Peter, "And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter (Πέτρος[17]), and upon this rock (πέτρα[18]) I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it," as well as Jesus' commission and promise to be with His followers as they carried on his ministry, "even unto the end of the world."[19]

The Baptist perpetuity view sees Baptists as separate from Catholicism and other religious denominations and considers that the Baptist movement predates the Catholic church and is therefore not part of the Protestant Reformation.[20]

J. M. Carroll's The Trail of Blood booklet, published in 1931, has been a popular writing presenting the successionist view, pointing to groups such as the Montanists, Novatianists, Donatists, Paulicians, Albigensians, Catharists, Waldenses, and Anabaptists, as predecessors to contemporary Baptists.[21] Baptist historian John T. Christian writes in the introduction to his History of the Baptists: "I have throughout pursued the scientific method of investigation, and I have let the facts speak for themselves. I have no question in my own mind that there has been a historical succession of Baptists from the days of Christ to the present time."[22] Other Baptist historians holding the perpetuity view are Thomas Armitage, G.H. Orchard, and David Benedict.

Those holding the perpetuity view of Baptist history can be basically divided into two categories: those who hold that there is a direct succession from one church to the next (most commonly identified with Landmarkism), and those who hold that while the Baptist practices and churches continued, they may have originated independently of any previously existing church.

While there is no direct evidence to support "Landmarkism" or "Successionism" in church history, the modern Baptist movement owes its theological heritage to the earlier "Frei Kirche" movement as embodied in the writings of Balthasar Hubmaier, an early Anabaptist theologian, who was martyred for his beliefs on the rite of baptism in the early days of the Protestant Reformation.[23] No doubt, the various beliefs of Baptists can be "discovered" through independent study; however, church history does not seem to support the notion that movements began ad hoc or in a vacuum. While the Southern Baptist Convention's stand (as articulated by McBeth) is that the modern Baptist movement is a part of the larger Protestant movement, that does not automatically delete the earlier influences of others who published and advocated some or all of the distinctive views that identify modern Baptists. The Baptist movement is in the larger context of theological movements of dissent since the official birth of the Roman Catholic Church at the Council of Nicea."

 

[Anguille]

It used to, but I started leaving my dogs out in the yard and they stopped.

Truthfully, it never really bothered me. They are just doing what is expected of them by their faith, none of them were pushy when I politely accepted their pamphlet while telling them I had no interest, they were respectful and moved on. No harm, no foul. I honestly can not remember the last time A Mormon on a mission knocked on my door, nor can I remember the last time a born-again tried to convert me.

I have heard more horror stories about born-agains than I have about Mormons.

Perhaps it is the influence of the Catholic faith in my early childhood, perhaps it's just the way I am, but I truly do respect the beliefs of others. It's just not for me.

I respect the beliefs of others, I just don't respect the lack of mutual respect on the part of some others for my atheism and their belief that they can interrupt what I am doing to proselytize to me. I treat strangers who approach me with the aim to convert me to whatever religion it is they are peddling pretty much the same way I treat strangers and non strangers who come near me with a lit cigarette or cigar in their hand. I ask them to please get their religion/tobacco smoke out of my face.

Good thing they don't telemarket religion. They'd get more than an earful if they started calling me on my phone.

The ones who ring my doorbell usually get asked where they live and at what time do they settle in for a nice nap so that I can arrange to come on over and annoy them into being atheists.