Communism, Socialism or Capitalism?

[Agnapostate]

"Flatliners" would be good, because I swear these people are brain-dead.

All of you capitalists, whether of the Anglo-Saxon or liberal democratic variety, are rather brain-dead. But at least Rhine capitalism and its derivatives have the tendency to not inhibit growth in such an egregious manner.

 

[AVG-JOE]

This sort of thinking is what brings down great societies. "Humans just aren't smart enough and good enough,

...<snip for brevity>...

don't know your ass from your elbow.

Shall I go on?

Since you're blathering nonsense, I guess that all depends on just how long you want to look foolish.

Thanks, kiddo! I needed that!

-Joe

 

[PixieStix]

OK Fellow American's which do you prefer for our country, Communism, Socialism or Capitalism? and what is the reason for your preference?

We need a new word for what is happening.."Obamanism", those who fall in step and follow without a fight are obamatrons or quite simply "dumbasses" and destroyers of all that is uniquely American

More than 1,200 groups from Maine to Hawaii spent the day gathering signatures in support of Obama's economic plan, the first step in building what the White House hopes will be a standing political army ready to do battle.

"Flatliners" would be good, because I swear these people are brain-dead.

I know some people who are so taken by this man..that they have thrown out their beliefs, they put him above their pro life beliefs their faith is secondary now

I know one woman in particular that is a naturalized citizen from Jamacia. She gets all teary eyed over Obama...and yes I was shocked when I found out she voted for Obama...she is a staunch Christian..or at least she "was"..she is now an Obamatron..it definitley put a strain for our friendship...she will not hear of any dissent where O is concerned...and I am not one who likes my speech impeded

 

[Agnapostate]

She must be a Muslim now!

 

[Cecilie1200]

Thanks, kiddo! I needed that!

-Joe

-Joe

I knew you were arrogant enough to think you could personally replace the economic decision-making of hundreds of millions of people. I didn't realize you were arrogant enough to think you represented the entire human race. I can't say that I'm surprised, though.

 

[PixieStix]

She must be a Muslim now!

No, she is an obamatron like I said.

 

[AVG-JOE]

The government subsidized transcontinental railroads were largely inefficient and corrupt, as opposed to James J. Hill's privately built Great Northern Railway.

The Truth About the "Robber Barons" - Thomas J. DiLorenzo - Mises Institute

As to Capitalism not being able to exist without central planning, well you can chalk up our current economic downturn to the central planners so there's certainly something to that argument. I'd recommend Friedrich von Hayek's The Road to Serfdom for more reading on the subject.

Kevin, your statements are not untrue. Not only that, they are proof that there is a huge difference between central planning and bad central planning.

This is why democracy* should be able produce a higher standard of living than an authoritarian government can.

*Not what we've had in America the last 50 years, but true democracy, where your voice and my voice are not squelched by the dollars that corporations - including foreign corporations - can provide.

-Joe

By the way, Brain Trust, we're talking about capitalism, not democracy. One is an economic system, and one is a political system. Just another proof that you have no frigging clue what any of the stuff you're bloviating about is.

"bloviating"?

We are talking about both, honey. Try to keep up.

-Joe

 

[Cecilie1200]

Kevin, your statements are not untrue. Not only that, they are proof that there is a huge difference between central planning and bad central planning.

This is why democracy* should be able produce a higher standard of living than an authoritarian government can.

*Not what we've had in America the last 50 years, but true democracy, where your voice and my voice are not squelched by the dollars that corporations - including foreign corporations - can provide.

-Joe

By the way, Brain Trust, we're talking about capitalism, not democracy. One is an economic system, and one is a political system. Just another proof that you have no frigging clue what any of the stuff you're bloviating about is.

"bloviating"?

We are talking about both, honey. Try to keep up.

-Joe

No, "honey". Only YOU are talking about both. The rest of us are talking economics, and YOU are talking about your misconceptions. It doesn't take much to "keep up" with the fact that you're uneducated on the subject.

 

[Agnapostate]

No, "honey". Only YOU are talking about both. The rest of us are talking economics, and YOU are talking about your misconceptions. It doesn't take much to "keep up" with the fact that you're uneducated on the subject.

You, Cesspoolie? Making valid economic comment? You provide comic relief; I'll give you that.

 

[AVG-JOE]

I see no proof that there's a difference between central planning and bad central planning.

Proof, eh?

How about China? I think we agree that the central planning done by The United States over the last 50 years has been somewhat lacking in vision, to say the least. Over those same 50 years the Chinese have discovered and implemented freedom in the market place, guided by strict central planning.

Who now owes who more money than God could repay?

Did China create Utopia? Hell no! Nobody will argue that the Chinese Government has done everything right, but they did end up on the correct side of a $13 Trillion mortgage. And they did it by planning for their future as a Nation while we, rich and poor alike, kept asking our government "What's in it for me" and accepted the huge transfer of wealth from our future, using China and the Arabs as the bankers and paying a hefty commission to our "planning committee" in the process.

The sooner we realize how stupid we look from space, the sooner we can start planning, as a Nation, for a better future.

-Joe

If China is evidence that central planning of the economy is so splendiferous, could someone explain to me why the news has been chockful of stories about Chinese products having to be recalled for extreme safety issues? I thought the government was supposed to eliminate such problems in central planning by doing away with "greedy" individuals killing their customers to make a buck (because everyone knows how profitable it is to kill off your customer base).

Did you ever stop to ask yourself if China would be developing and prospering even faster if they lost the central planning and just went whole-hog in imitating us? Or did you just take it on faith that their choice was the better one?

Kevin asked for my opinion of successful central planning by a modern government. When one organization owes another $13 Trillion and counting, I would call that reasonably successful. Not perfect, as I mentioned in my post, but reasonably successful.

Which business model works better? All employees doing what they do with no coordination, or a well managed system with vision and goals?

If China imitated the US, then they too would owe someone a shit-pile of money... probably the Arabs.

-Joe

 

[AVG-JOE]

OK Fellow American's which do you prefer for our country, Communism, Socialism or Capitalism? and what is the reason for your preference?

We need a new word for what is happening.."Obamanism", those who fall in step and follow without a fight are obamatrons or quite simply "dumbasses" and destroyers of all that is uniquely American

More than 1,200 groups from Maine to Hawaii spent the day gathering signatures in support of Obama's economic plan, the first step in building what the White House hopes will be a standing political army ready to do battle.

"Flatliners" would be good, because I swear these people are brain-dead.

Derogatory name calling, eh?

Do you really think that makes you look like you know what the fuck you're talking about?

Really?!?!

-Joe

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

Kevin, your statements are not untrue. Not only that, they are proof that there is a huge difference between central planning and bad central planning.

This is why democracy* should be able produce a higher standard of living than an authoritarian government can.

*Not what we've had in America the last 50 years, but true democracy, where your voice and my voice are not squelched by the dollars that corporations - including foreign corporations - can provide.

-Joe

I see no proof that there's a difference between central planning and bad central planning.

Proof, eh?

How about China? I think we agree that the central planning done by The United States over the last 50 years has been somewhat lacking in vision, to say the least. Over those same 50 years the Chinese have discovered and implemented freedom in the market place, guided by strict central planning.

Who now owes who more money than God could repay?

Did China create Utopia? Hell no! Nobody will argue that the Chinese Government has done everything right, but they did end up on the correct side of a $13 Trillion mortgage. And they did it by planning for their future as a Nation while we, rich and poor alike, kept asking our government "What's in it for me" and accepted the huge transfer of wealth from our future, using China and the Arabs as the bankers and paying a hefty commission to our "planning committee" in the process.

The sooner we realize how stupid we look from space, the sooner we can start planning, as a Nation, for a better future.

-Joe

Yes, China has instituted many market reforms which have led to their growth. The freer the market the better off everybody is, so how much better off would they be if they took an even more hands off approach? Government intervention in the market is always bad because it creates a problem that they try to solve with more government intervention, which leads to more problems and more interventions to solve those, and on and on it goes.

 

[Cecilie1200]

We need a new word for what is happening.."Obamanism", those who fall in step and follow without a fight are obamatrons or quite simply "dumbasses" and destroyers of all that is uniquely American

"Flatliners" would be good, because I swear these people are brain-dead.

Derogatory name calling, eh?

Do you really think that makes you look like you know what the fuck you're talking about?

Really?!?!

-Joe

Do you really think I care what you think about anything, let alone about me?

Really?!?!

 

[editec]

I see no proof that there's a difference between central planning and bad central planning.

Proof, eh?

How about China? I think we agree that the central planning done by The United States over the last 50 years has been somewhat lacking in vision, to say the least. Over those same 50 years the Chinese have discovered and implemented freedom in the market place, guided by strict central planning.

Who now owes who more money than God could repay?

Did China create Utopia? Hell no! Nobody will argue that the Chinese Government has done everything right, but they did end up on the correct side of a $13 Trillion mortgage. And they did it by planning for their future as a Nation while we, rich and poor alike, kept asking our government "What's in it for me" and accepted the huge transfer of wealth from our future, using China and the Arabs as the bankers and paying a hefty commission to our "planning committee" in the process.

The sooner we realize how stupid we look from space, the sooner we can start planning, as a Nation, for a better future.

-Joe

Yes, China has instituted many market reforms which have led to their growth. The freer the market the better off everybody is, so how much better off would they be if they took an even more hands off approach? Government intervention in the market is always bad because it creates a problem that they try to solve with more government intervention, which leads to more problems and more interventions to solve those, and on and on it goes.

China could have initiated market reforms until they were blue in the face and very little would have happened had NOT the USA granted them the right to sell into our market.

I'm not arguing that a freer market is NOT usually beneficial to a society, merely that a freer market in and of itself is not necessarily all it takes to have a prosperous society.

The market doesn't get any freer than Somalia appears to be right now,, but that poor nation is hardly a bastion of happy capitalists.

 

[Said1]

I see no proof that there's a difference between central planning and bad central planning.

Proof, eh?

How about China? I think we agree that the central planning done by The United States over the last 50 years has been somewhat lacking in vision, to say the least. Over those same 50 years the Chinese have discovered and implemented freedom in the market place, guided by strict central planning.

Who now owes who more money than God could repay?

Did China create Utopia? Hell no! Nobody will argue that the Chinese Government has done everything right, but they did end up on the correct side of a $13 Trillion mortgage. And they did it by planning for their future as a Nation while we, rich and poor alike, kept asking our government "What's in it for me" and accepted the huge transfer of wealth from our future, using China and the Arabs as the bankers and paying a hefty commission to our "planning committee" in the process.

The sooner we realize how stupid we look from space, the sooner we can start planning, as a Nation, for a better future.

-Joe

Yes, China has instituted many market reforms which have led to their growth. The freer the market the better off everybody is, so how much better off would they be if they took an even more hands off approach? Government intervention in the market is always bad because it creates a problem that they try to solve with more government intervention, which leads to more problems and more interventions to solve those, and on and on it goes.

China has the advantage of education. Through freerer markets and a reasonably educated population, they were able to take advantage of technology transfer. Probably one of the biggest reasons for scrapping their self-imposed, isolation policies.

 

[amrchaos]

I have to disagree with your opinion on Socialism, to state the obvious yes greed is a problem in the world today but I don't think people should be penalized under a social government because they made good/lucky decisions or even bad decisions. Look at GM, did we really need to bail out the auto industry? Under capitalism the government allows the companies to fail. That in my opinion is how this country should be ran, live or die by your own decisions. F*** the government, my life, my rules, my company, my rules.

It's more complicated than that - None of those systems works by itself because human frailty must still be involved in their day to day management.

Capitalism and free choice is required for development of new ideas.

A certain amount of socialism is required to keep greed in check and maintain the infrastructure that the wealthy need but don't use all the time.

Communism is an unworkable pipe-dream as long as people manage it.

-Joe

1)Greed is good/lucky decisions or a bad decision?

Let me guess--you like to refer to greed as "the profit motif", don't you!!

2)F*** the government, my life, my rules, my company, my rules.

That is what we call Anarchy--tell us again how civilization was birth from this again? OH yes!! It was to bring order to the neaderthals that loved to hunt with their teeth and bare hands!

A little balance between the group/collective and the individual is what civilization is all about.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

Proof, eh?

How about China? I think we agree that the central planning done by The United States over the last 50 years has been somewhat lacking in vision, to say the least. Over those same 50 years the Chinese have discovered and implemented freedom in the market place, guided by strict central planning.

Who now owes who more money than God could repay?

Did China create Utopia? Hell no! Nobody will argue that the Chinese Government has done everything right, but they did end up on the correct side of a $13 Trillion mortgage. And they did it by planning for their future as a Nation while we, rich and poor alike, kept asking our government "What's in it for me" and accepted the huge transfer of wealth from our future, using China and the Arabs as the bankers and paying a hefty commission to our "planning committee" in the process.

The sooner we realize how stupid we look from space, the sooner we can start planning, as a Nation, for a better future.

-Joe

Yes, China has instituted many market reforms which have led to their growth. The freer the market the better off everybody is, so how much better off would they be if they took an even more hands off approach? Government intervention in the market is always bad because it creates a problem that they try to solve with more government intervention, which leads to more problems and more interventions to solve those, and on and on it goes.

China could have initiated market reforms until they were blue in the face and very little would have happened had NOT the USA granted them the right to sell into our market.

I'm not arguing that a freer market is NOT usually beneficial to a society, merely that a freer market in and of itself is not necessarily all it takes to have a prosperous society.

The market doesn't get any freer than Somalia appears to be right now,, but that poor nation is hardly a bastion of happy capitalists.

Freer trade is another reform that allowed their economy to grow, you're right.

 

[AVG-JOE]

I see no proof that there's a difference between central planning and bad central planning.

Proof, eh?

How about China? I think we agree that the central planning done by The United States over the last 50 years has been somewhat lacking in vision, to say the least. Over those same 50 years the Chinese have discovered and implemented freedom in the market place, guided by strict central planning.

Who now owes who more money than God could repay?

Did China create Utopia? Hell no! Nobody will argue that the Chinese Government has done everything right, but they did end up on the correct side of a $13 Trillion mortgage. And they did it by planning for their future as a Nation while we, rich and poor alike, kept asking our government "What's in it for me" and accepted the huge transfer of wealth from our future, using China and the Arabs as the bankers and paying a hefty commission to our "planning committee" in the process.

The sooner we realize how stupid we look from space, the sooner we can start planning, as a Nation, for a better future.

-Joe

Yes, China has instituted many market reforms which have led to their growth. The freer the market the better off everybody is, so how much better off would they be if they took an even more hands off approach? Government intervention in the market is always bad because it creates a problem that they try to solve with more government intervention, which leads to more problems and more interventions to solve those, and on and on it goes.

I'm going to disagree dude... Any organization of human endeavor, from a family farm to a world-power nation is going to be more successful with vision and planning based on that vision.

That's why, whether they are elected by the people or appointed by the last king, we call them leaders.

-Joe

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

Proof, eh?

How about China? I think we agree that the central planning done by The United States over the last 50 years has been somewhat lacking in vision, to say the least. Over those same 50 years the Chinese have discovered and implemented freedom in the market place, guided by strict central planning.

Who now owes who more money than God could repay?

Did China create Utopia? Hell no! Nobody will argue that the Chinese Government has done everything right, but they did end up on the correct side of a $13 Trillion mortgage. And they did it by planning for their future as a Nation while we, rich and poor alike, kept asking our government "What's in it for me" and accepted the huge transfer of wealth from our future, using China and the Arabs as the bankers and paying a hefty commission to our "planning committee" in the process.

The sooner we realize how stupid we look from space, the sooner we can start planning, as a Nation, for a better future.

-Joe

Yes, China has instituted many market reforms which have led to their growth. The freer the market the better off everybody is, so how much better off would they be if they took an even more hands off approach? Government intervention in the market is always bad because it creates a problem that they try to solve with more government intervention, which leads to more problems and more interventions to solve those, and on and on it goes.

I'm going to disagree dude... Any organization of human endeavor, from a family farm to a world-power nation is going to be more successful with vision and planning based on that vision.

That's why, whether they are elected by the people or appointed by the last king, we call them leaders.

-Joe

The fact is that government interventions in the market and central planners, the Federal Reserve, are the cause of the business cycle which has caused our economy, once again, to go into the toilet.

 

[AVG-JOE]

"Flatliners" would be good, because I swear these people are brain-dead.

Derogatory name calling, eh?

Do you really think that makes you look like you know what the fuck you're talking about?

Really?!?!

-Joe

Do you really think I care what you think about anything, let alone about me?

Really?!?!

Yes.

If you were truly indifferent to others opinions, including opinions about you and what you think, you wouldn't be here on USMB. Same as me.

The trick is to express your difference of opinions without making personal attacks or resorting to childish name-calling... welcome to the adult world.

Besides, I like your posts, especially your posts in response to my posts... not only do they help me clarify my position to the world, but occasionally I learn something.

-Joe