Columbine Was Never About Christian Persecution

[Luissa]

Because the killers asked people if they believed in God?

The killers had been bullied in school. They asked one student if she was a Christian. Columbine is not a story of Christian persecution.

The article says those who died were representative of the general population of high school students who lived in the area.

they have also said they were not bullied as much as people earlier said. But I think Allie is right in saying they are dead that is what matters. These boys had mental issues and probably had many reasons for killing the students and we will never fully understand why.

 

[AllieBaba]

Er..that's not proof that they didn't ask kids about their faith. That article just questions whether it was Cassie or another girl who was asked the question.

It doesn't matter, other kids came forward to say they were questioned.

 

[AllieBaba]

The mental issues of at least one was that he was a narcissistic bastard who thought everyone else was less important, less smart, less important than he was.

 

[PoliticalChic]

That was proven to be a falsehood.

Please provide link for this.

Cassie Bernall Said "Yes" When Asked about her faith by a shooter at Columbine-Disputed!

Actully, I've read the Salon article, and if you read carefully there are lots of terms like 'probably' and 'more likely scenario," and seems aimed at stopping the story from increasing what I seem to remember them referring to a a "Christian Youth Movement."

Based on these feature of the article, and the political perspective of Salon, are you sure you want to claim that the story is "disproven"?

 

[AllieBaba]

It wasn't disproven. It was questioned, but as I stated...it's a moot point because lots of other kids testified that the shooters were questioning their victims about their faith.

 

[YWN666]

Please provide link for this.

Cassie Bernall Said "Yes" When Asked about her faith by a shooter at Columbine-Disputed!

Actully, I've read the Salon article, and if you read carefully there are lots of terms like 'probably' and 'more likely scenario," and seems aimed at stopping the story from increasing what I seem to remember them referring to a a "Christian Youth Movement."

Based on these feature of the article, and the political perspective of Salon, are you sure you want to claim that the story is "disproven"?

Yeah, I feel comfortable with that word. Eyewitness testimony disputed the original account.

 

[AllieBaba]

I haven't seen any.

 

[WorldAHope]

The mental issues of at least one was that he was a narcissistic bastard who thought everyone else was less important, less smart, less important than he was.

They were mentally disturbed, and should never have had access to firearms or bomb making materials. Their friends/classmates/enemies or their parents should have recognized these kids were over the edge.
What would you do, today, if you had concerns about a kid's mental stability ? Do not ignore it.

They did not target any particular groups, Christian or otherwise. They wanted to kill everyone.
Are you trying to paint the face of the facts so they look like what you desire ? Everything looks like Christian persecution.....to those who crave The Rapture. Great. As if Columbine and othe rmass murders aren't bad enough.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/04/20/columbine.myths/

updated 10:06 a.m. EDT, Mon April 20, 2009
Debunking the myths of Columbine, 10 years later
Cullen's book,"Columbine," was released this month -- just in time for today's 10th anniversary of the shooting at the Colorado high school. While tackling popular misconceptions, Cullen also gives a riveting account of what happened that day and how the survivors view the event that marked their lives forever.

Cullen concluded that the killers weren't part of the Trench Coat Mafia, that they weren't bullied by other students and that they didn't target popular jocks, African-Americans or any other group. A school shooting wasn't their initial intent, he said. They wanted to bomb their school in an attack they hoped would make them more infamous than Oklahoma City bomber Timothy McVeigh.

The Columbine tragedy left a lasting mark on many Americans, largely because of the media's around-the-clock coverage in the days and weeks following the shooting. Columbine was named the top news story of 1999 with nearly 70 percent of Americans saying they "followed [Columbine] very closely," according to a Pew Research Center study. Video Watch parents reflect on children lost at Columbine »

When media coverage faded, reporters and investigators soon learned that some of the initial reports were wrong. Cullen writes about the misperceptions: "Facts rush in, the fog lifts, an accurate picture solidifies. The public accepts this, but the final portrait is the farthest from the truth."

Officials at the Jefferson County Sheriff's office agreed that the Trench Coat Mafia, among other myths, were false. Lead investigator Kate Battan said the 10-year anniversary offers a chance to clear up the misconceptions.

"It was the first big event where cell phones were around, and I had witnesses giving information to the media before I even got to it," she said. "A lot of that information was wrong."

For example, many in the media initially reported that 17-year-old Cassie Bernall, a Christian, answered "yes" when asked if she believed in God before she was shot to death. She became a poster child for the Evangelical movement after her death. But investigators and student witnesses later told Cullen that it was another student, Valeen Schnurr, who avowed her belief in God as she was shot. Schnurr survived.

 

[Luissa]

They might have asked these girls if they believed in God but it doesn't prove they were targeting just christians, they probably asked due their power trip.

"Today, after carefully combing through the boy's diaries, school assignments and police documents, journalists and investigators agree there is no evidence the killers singled out the jocks in a hit list. In fact, their victims varied in race, popularity, religion and age"
Debunking the myths of Columbine, 10 years later - CNN.com

 

[Luissa]

I guess we found the same article at the same time! lol

 

[AllieBaba]

I never said they were targeting Christians. I simply debunked the fallacious statement that they didn't ask multiples of their victims if they were CHristians.

Though of course, there's no way of knowing that they WEREN'T targeting Christians. One wonders why they would ask them if they were Christian if they weren't targeting them.

And btw, World, that entire bright blue blow-out is actually in one of my previous links.

The fact is, they asked many of their victims...ones who died as well as ones who lived to TELL ABOUT IT...if they believed in God.

And outside of that, you can't really determine their state of mind, except to go by their writings, their actions, and their words.

 

[WorldAHope]

I never said they were targeting Christians. I simply debunked the fallacious statement that they didn't ask multiples of their victims if they were CHristians.

Though of course, there's no way of knowing that they WEREN'T targeting Christians. One wonders why they would ask them if they were Christian if they weren't targeting them.

And btw, World, that entire bright blue blow-out is actually in one of my previous links.

The fact is, they asked many of their victims...ones who died as well as ones who lived to TELL ABOUT IT...if they believed in God.

And outside of that, you can't really determine their state of mind, except to go by their writings, their actions, and their words.

Which "GOD" do you suppose the meant ? Vishnu ? Rama ? Jehovah, Allah or Ra ?
Not a Christian persecution, in any way shape or form.

The author, David Cullen, did go through teh writings and a lot of other in depth research.
The 2 kids left lengthy, rambling, detailed diaries, recording months and years of their their thoughts and their plans.
I repeated the link and partial posted it because it refutes the story that Evangeliecals have used to pump up their Christian Persecution theory (and their paranoia, and their fundraising....) about that one girl who was a victim.
It appears you did not read that article, or Cullen's book, or that you ignored the part which openly, clearly refuted your "Hate Crime against Christians" slant.
They wanted to kill everyone, and also themselves.
It was a terrible tragedy, and we all wish it could have been averted, prevented. These 2 boys were almost stopped prior to commencing their attack. They had a website where they posted threats to the lives of named students, and which hinted at their overall plan. Concerned parents of those named students took printouts to the school admin. and to police.
The police and school administration reacted in a laid back manner, did nothing to take protective measures.

 

[AllieBaba]

yeah, I'm sure they were referring to Rama when they asked the predominantly CHristian population of students, "So do you still believe in God" or "Do you believe in Jesus."

Give me a fucking break.

 

[KittenKoder]

yeah, I'm sure they were referring to Rama when they asked the predominantly CHristian population of students, "So do you still believe in God" or "Do you believe in Jesus."

Give me a fucking break.

Just pointing out the others point a little better. The word god is not a name, it is a title for anything with the power to take and give life. For many it is a very generic term, and only one religious belief uses it otherwise, but even some within said belief system see that it is not thought so by many. Being asked if you believe in god is just asking if you believe in something you have to answer to beyond life. Even then, you don't need to see this clearly to see that they were not targeting anyone specifically, since the answer didn't make a difference in whether they got shot.

 

[AllieBaba]

I think we can assume in this instance, given the use of the word "Jesus" and the fact that they were asking students they KNEW to be Christian the question, that they were referring to the Christian God.

Nice deflection attempt, but irrelevant as hell. Dis would have a cow...except Dis seems to be a bit retarded in the relevancy department.

 

[KittenKoder]

I think we can assume in this instance, given the use of the word "Jesus" and the fact that they were asking students they KNEW to be Christian the question, that they were referring to the Christian God.

Nice deflection attempt, but irrelevant as hell. Dis would have a cow...except Dis seems to be a bit retarded in the relevancy department.

It still doesn't demonstrate they were targeting a specific ideal, though it does make one wonder just how long they had been planning this to know so much about those they were willing to kill in cold blood.

 

[Dis]

I think we can assume in this instance, given the use of the word "Jesus" and the fact that they were asking students they KNEW to be Christian the question, that they were referring to the Christian God.

Nice deflection attempt, but irrelevant as hell. Dis would have a cow...except Dis seems to be a bit retarded in the relevancy department.

Who's obsessed with whom, Babble-alots? You've now brought me into two (at least) discussions that I'm not part of. Are you mental?

 

[AllieBaba]

A lot of the kids they targeted were very well known in the school. Popular, outgoing, involved in extracurricular activities.

 

[AllieBaba]

I think we can assume in this instance, given the use of the word "Jesus" and the fact that they were asking students they KNEW to be Christian the question, that they were referring to the Christian God.

Nice deflection attempt, but irrelevant as hell. Dis would have a cow...except Dis seems to be a bit retarded in the relevancy department.

Who's obsessed with whom, Babble-alots? You've now brought me into two (at least) discussions that I'm not part of. Are you mental?

Darn, I thought you were ignoring me. It was nice while it lasted.

 

[KittenKoder]

A lot of the kids they targeted were very well known in the school. Popular, outgoing, involved in extracurricular activities.

Then perhaps that was their primary target, the popular kids.