Columbine Was Never About Christian Persecution

[AllieBaba]

And the ridiculous fable that it was about "gun control" is just that...if there had been an armed security guard at the school, or a teacher with a gun permit, the death toll would have been lower or non-existent.

 

[Rubber Hoser]

And the ridiculous fable that it was about "gun control" is just that...if there had been an armed security guard at the school, or a teacher with a gun permit, the death toll would have been lower or non-existent.

How about not selling guns in the first place? What were kids doing with assault weapons and other guns? Now you're blaming it on not enough people were armed? Dude, you're seriously whacked and your country is obviously out of control.

 

[AllieBaba]

Lovely diversion, but has nothing to do with the fact that the Columbine kids used homemade bombs as well....and would have killed that day regardless. Because their motive had nothing to do with guns. It had to do with killing Christians.

 

[Rubber Hoser]

Lovely diversion, but has nothing to do with the fact that the Columbine kids used homemade bombs as well....and would have killed that day regardless. Because their motive had nothing to do with guns. It had to do with killing Christians.

If guns weren't so easy to get in the US, maybe there wouldn't have been a shooting that day? Nobody would have gone around with just the bombs they would have been tackled right away.
And more people die from gunshot every year than die in all your wars put together. Iraq is safer than the USA. So is North Korea...

 

[editec]

If somebody specifically wanted to kill Christians, they'd specifically target Christian churches.

How hard is that to understand?

 

[Smartt33]

Columbine Was Never About Christian Persecution on EthicsDaily.com

Columbine Was Never About Christian Persecution
By: Michael Spencer Email
Posted: Monday, April 20, 2009 5:29 am



Columbine is about being educated, aware and fully engaged in the real problems of our communities instead of distracted in our own versions of what's wrong with the world, Spencer writes.


"These are not ordinary kids who were bullied into retaliation," psychologist Peter Langman writes in his new book, Why Kids Kill: Inside the Minds of School Shooters. "These are not ordinary kids who played too many video games. These are not ordinary kids who just wanted to be famous. These are simply not ordinary kids. These are kids with serious psychological problems."


The Columbine high school massacre has, unfortunately, been a professional interest for me. Part of my job involves doing risk assessments of high school students applying to our program so understanding the dynamics of school violence is a necessary preparation.


As a Christian, I've had a different kind of interest in Columbine. The shootings have become part of conservative evangelical culture war mythology. Some of the dead are considered martyrs. Books have been written. Speaking tours traveled through churches and Christian media. The pundits and cultural critics have used Columbine as Exhibit A for everything that was wrong with America. Here, we were told, were the results of America's surrender to secularism and proof that we needed everything from the closure of public schools to the Ten Commandments in every classroom. (Think what a difference seeing "Thou Shalt Not Kill" would make.)


Because many of the Columbine victims were related to churches in the area, evangelicals took Columbine personally. Part of the mythology was that Christians were targeted. Churches struggled with how to respond. Here was the problem of evil on the big stage. What did the church have to say?


Ten years have passed, and USA Today does a retrospective on what we really know about Columbine. It's essential reading for thoughtful evangelicals. (All of this information has been coming out through various books and sources, but this is a review of the total picture.)......

.....No Christians were specially targeted for their faith. No one confessed belief in God and died as a result. The plan was to kill a whole school. The fantasy was terror on a large scale. Terror and legend were the motives...............



Follow the link for the entire article.

I doubt that most evangelicals believe it was about Christiqan persecution. However, there were some religious issues involved in the event. That does not make it a religious event.

 

[Smartt33]

Smartt: That is not even issue. I don't recall more than a few individuals who ever said that mass murder had anything to do with Christians or Christianity.

Here is one:
Speech by Darrel Scott father of Columbine victim - PostWorthy

Men and women are three-part beings. We all consist of body, soul and spirit. When we refuse to acknowledge a third part of our make-up, we create a void that allows evil, prejudice and hatred to rush in and wreak havoc. Spiritual influences were present within our educational systems for most of our nation's history. Many of our major colleges began as theological seminaries. This is a historical fact. What has happened to us as a nation? We have refused to honor God and in so doing we open the doors to hatred and violence And when something as terrible as Columbine tragedy occurs, politicians immediately seek to pass more restrictive laws that contribute to erode away our personal and private liberties. We do not need more restrictive laws. Eric and Dylan would not have been stopped by metal detectors. No amount of gun laws can stop someone who spends months planning this type of massacre. The real villain lies within our own hearts. Political posturing and restrictive legislation are not the answers.

The young people of our nation hold the key. There is a spiritual awakening taking place that will not be squelched! We do not need more religion, or more gaudy television evangelists spewing out verbal religious garbage. We do not need more million dollar church buildings built while people with basic needs are being ignored. We do need a change of heart and a humble acknowledgment that this nation was founded on the principle of simple trust in God.

As my son Craig lay under that table in the school library and saw his two friends murdered before his very eyes he did not hesitate to pray in school. I defy any law or politician to deny him that right. I challenge every young person in America, and around the world, to realize that on April 20, 1999, at Columbine High School prayer was brought back into our schools. Do not let the many prayers offered by those students be in vain. Dare to move into the new millennium with a sacred disregard for legislation that violates your God-given right to communicate with him.



Darrell Scott seems to have forgotten that prayer was never forbidden in public schools.

Darrel Scott did not say in his speech that the killings were an attack on Christians. He did not say that it was even realted to any attitude about Christianity or Christians. What Darrel was saying is that the killings, just as most violence that is done out of hate, anger, and pride, are symptoms of a more serious problem. In the full understanding of what he was saying, I believe it was that the root problem was indeed "spiritual" .

Jesus said it this way, "It is not what we put into our bodies that defiles it, it iw what comes out." What He was saying is that no matter how much learning we have, in the end it is what we do and say that proves the heart condition. We can be taught many things, but it is the condition of our heart that determines what we receive. It is the condition of the heart that determines what we release. That is what Darrel Scott was saying.

 

[Smartt33]

I am utterly astounded to see that there are still people who believe the myth that Cassie Bernall "said yes". This has been conclusively debunked. Within weeks of the shootings, papers like the Denver Post knew that it never occurred. The story originated with Craig Scott, who said he heard heard one of the shooters ask a girl if she believed in God. He did not actually see the exchange, but said he believed the voice belonged to Cassie Bernall. When he was taken on walk through of the scene by Police, he pointed out a spot in the opposite direction of where Cassie Bernall was hiding, but which was actually where another girl, Valeen Schnurr, was located. Another supposed "witness" Joshua Lapp, did not actually see anything, and was located some distance away from Cassie, midway between she and Schnurr. Lapp claimed to have heard both girls' conversations aabout God. But, he originally claimed to have heard Cassie Bernall in the eastern part of the library "closest to the hallway" when in fact she was in the western part of the room. Later, he changed his story. His chronology is also wrong. According to his account, Casie Bernall was killed before Schnurr's encounter, which is erroneous.
Evan Todd is another "witness" used to support the "she said yes" story. He claims to have heard two "God" conversations, presumably Valeen and Schurr. But he reports one voice as simply saying "Oh my God! Oh my God!" This does jibe with what Emily says Cassie was saying prior to her death, but was not a "conversation" with the killer. Todd later admitted that his identification of Cassie in the "God" conversation was due to hearing news reports. He also claimed that the killer said 'God is gay", which was not confirmed by any other victim.
All THREE of the primary witnesses for the "she said yes" story place the event at the location of Valeen, not Cassie.
Only one person, Emily Wyant, actually saw Cassie Bernall's death. She firmly stated that no conversation between the shooter and Cassie Bernall took place at all. Cassie Bernall was crying "Oh, my God, Oh my God, please don't let me die". The shooter, probably Klebold, simply leaned down and and shot her without a word. Period. The only person was asked about G-d was Valeen Schnurr, and this was after she was shot. She did not die. Byron Kirkland and Bree Pasquale. who were closer to Cassie than Scott and Todd, also confirmed Emily Wyant's account. Interesting enough, they were never interviewed by the "she said yes" proponents. So, the people who were closest to Cassie one who saw and two who heard her death, say she never "said yes".
The "she said yes" myth is refuted by the official FBI report. Details can be found in "Columbine" by Dave Cullen, released earlier this year which is the definitive account of the shootings; and in "Columbine: A True Crime Story, a victim, the killers and the nation's search for answers" by Jeff Kass. Also see "Cloud over Columbine: How the Press got it Wrong and the POlice Let it Happen" by Dave Cullen.
In the book "The Martyrs of columbine, author Justin Watson explains that students heard allegations about Cassie Bernall saying "yes" on TV, then simply repeated them as if they were witnesses. Many other sources such as CNN have concluded the same thing. In her book "Cassie Said Yes", Misty Bernall tacitly acknowledges that the encounter did not happen. She then says "Our intent was to share Cassie's story in an effort to encourage parents and teenagers. If any of our actions have hurt or offended anyone, we sincerely apologize", said the Bernalls. They say that the story is really not about the events at Columbine, but the story of a troubled girl who encountered God and experienced a dramatic change as a result. This is a nice sidest ep.
Anyone who simply googles "Cassie Bernall" can find ample documentation. At your local library you can find even more. The same media who reported that "Cassie said yes" also declared that Klebold and Harris were Goths, and members of the Trench Coat Mafia, both of which were also shown to be completely spurious. The misinformation occurred because the media hastily reported hearsay without waiting for the facts. The local Sheriff also make some incredibly stupid comments.
The terrible thing is that the one girl who DID tell her shooter she believed in God was ignored and accused of lying and trying to get attention by Churches who declared Cassie Bernall to be a "martyr".
Cassie Bernall was a wonderful girl who, like the other victims, went to a needless death. But the vast preponderance of evidence indicates that she did not "say yes". It is pretty clear that the only "God" conversation took place between Valeen Schurr and one of the killers, and it was simply misattributed to Cassie Bernall.

I think a lot of people just don't take the time to check some things out. It is clear that the words were attributed to the wrong person. The giorl who actually said what was heard, I think she was not even shot.

If you take a look, most news stories have more than one side, and usually both sides continue to exist for years. Kennedy's death is one prime example.

The shooting was not about Christians, while someof the dead were Christians. it was not about Christianity, but certainly people like Craig, did pray in school.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Columbine was about two whackos, and the consequence was sometimes that bullies get whacko'd.

 

[John Lemmon]

Columbine was trying to show the US that it's waaayyyy too easy to get guns. But as a nation, we were not smart enough to see it.

 

[KittenKoder]

Columbine was trying to show the US that it's waaayyyy too easy to get guns. But as a nation, we were not smart enough to see it.

Wow ... just wow ... do you want this to wind up being a conspiracy thread?

 

[John Lemmon]

Columbine was trying to show the US that it's waaayyyy too easy to get guns. But as a nation, we were not smart enough to see it.

Wow ... just wow ... do you want this to wind up being a conspiracy thread?

???

It was just god's way of telling us: cool it on the gun sales.

 

[KittenKoder]

Columbine was trying to show the US that it's waaayyyy too easy to get guns. But as a nation, we were not smart enough to see it.

Wow ... just wow ... do you want this to wind up being a conspiracy thread?

???

It was just god's way of telling us: cool it on the gun sales.

Off one deep end and into another.

Reality: It was some nutjobs who went psycho.

 

[John Lemmon]

Wow ... just wow ... do you want this to wind up being a conspiracy thread?

???

It was just god's way of telling us: cool it on the gun sales.

Off one deep end and into another.

Reality: It was some nutjobs who went psycho.

Real reality: It's nutjobs who let guns be sold so easily so other nutjobs could get them.

 

[KittenKoder]

???

It was just god's way of telling us: cool it on the gun sales.

Off one deep end and into another.

Reality: It was some nutjobs who went psycho.

Real reality: It's nutjobs who let guns be sold so easily so other nutjobs could get them.

I can make a gun out of plumbing and household chemicals ... it's not hard, it's the price of intelligence. So no, you can't be rid of weapons, you can only learn to be responsible with them. Hell, I know how to kill a person a million ways without a gun, and at least a thousand would be easier.

 

[John Lemmon]

Off one deep end and into another.

Reality: It was some nutjobs who went psycho.

Real reality: It's nutjobs who let guns be sold so easily so other nutjobs could get them.

I can make a gun out of plumbing and household chemicals ... it's not hard, it's the price of intelligence. So no, you can't be rid of weapons, you can only learn to be responsible with them. Hell, I know how to kill a person a million ways without a gun, and at least a thousand would be easier.

"Responsible" people wouldn't let guns be sold so easily so other doofusses (who aren't smart enough to make a homemade gun) can buy assault weapons.
Guns kill, therefore less guns = less death.

 

[KittenKoder]

Real reality: It's nutjobs who let guns be sold so easily so other nutjobs could get them.

I can make a gun out of plumbing and household chemicals ... it's not hard, it's the price of intelligence. So no, you can't be rid of weapons, you can only learn to be responsible with them. Hell, I know how to kill a person a million ways without a gun, and at least a thousand would be easier.

"Responsible" people wouldn't let guns be sold so easily so other doofusses (who aren't smart enough to make a homemade gun) can buy assault weapons.
Guns kill, therefore less guns = less death.

Wow ... knives kill more people per year, poison kills more, and cars kill the most ... guns are dead last in the US ... so does that mean we should ban cars to? Kitchen knives? You are dense. You can kill a person with bleach and alcohol really easily. Should we ban bleach? Muggers prefer lead pipes and baseball bats, should those be banned to?

Let me guess, you think the only things that happen are what you see on TV. Criminals will get guns no matter what is done, they do in areas where they are banned outright, and murders in those areas are actually up to, just fewer of them are caused by guns, people are still killing each other. Columbine was a couple of whackos who could have been stopped if at least one law abiding citizen there had a piece.

 

[John Lemmon]

no, you gun totting crackpot. Columbine could have been avoided if guns weren't so easy to get.

 

[AllieBaba]

Bullfuckingshit it would have. Those boys made BOMBS. They would have just made bigger ones. It wasn't about guns for them. It was about killing, and they were determined to do it.

 

[AllieBaba]

And every single survivor in that school wishes they had had a gun on them that day to stop them in their tracks.