Coburn: End ‘Welfare For The Well-Off’

[Inthemiddle]

Almost 1,500 millionaires didn’t pay income tax in 2009, according to the report.

I'd like to draw PoliticalChic to this.

 

[Inthemiddle]

And why would that be when Conservatives have long opposed government handouts for everyone?

No you haven't. You all keep babbling about how those hand outs are deserved for the "job creators" or about how they aren't actually hand outs they're just "tax credits" or some other BS.

 

[eflatminor]

[/B]Almost 1,500 millionaires didn’t pay income tax in 2009, according to the report.

I'd like to draw PoliticalChic to this.

Lots of people who have assets in excess of a million dollars may not have any income in a given year. This is especially true of entrepreneurs starting businesses...they don't begin to collect a salary until after the company is up and running and that can take years.

More importantly, is your ire directed towards the millionaires that were following the tax code as written or towards the politicians that wrote our monstrosity of a tax code?

 

[Mr. Shaman]

Americans are the richest 5% of the world. We are all the well-off.

Hence, we should end welfare/subsidies, etc for everyone.

Let's get back to what America really means: Liberty to choose your own destiny.

Whoops!!!

You forgot to mention Less Governmental Interference.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w6whSWn1RRM]Great Depression - YouTube[/ame]​

 

[kiwiman127]

Yep, Sen. Tom Coburn was half right.
Let's end it for the wealthy and poor alike.

The Bible has well over 100 passages telling us to help the poor. To read those passages go to this link:
Bible: Caring for and serving the poor

The GOP House took the time to reaffirm the US motto "In God We Trust". Most of those who cry and moan about helping the poor are conservatives who support the GOP and also claim to be good church going Christians. Maybe, instead of whining about helping those in need, they should heed to the Bible and follow their leaders to the point of "In God We Trust", instead of openly contradicting the Word of God by their actions.

Helping the poor should never be a partisan issue because it's a Christian issue because God told us to take care of the needy.

Does the Bible say it's okay to steal from some in order to give to others? Or, does it say Christians should be charitable? Helping the poor should never be a partisan issue because helping the poor is not a role for government, it is a role for charity, religious or otherwise. We have no national religion, in case you've forgotten that.

And then there's that pesky law of the land in which you'll find no authority allowing the federal government to give money to the poor.

Gosh, you're argument is falling apart quickly.

"Does the Bible say it's okay to steal from some in order to give to others?"
Who is stealing from whom?
Why is the working class seeing a decline in wealth and has seen flat wages for years? During the time frame which saw workers wages stagnate, the top tier saw their wealth and income rise.

 

[grunt11b]

I think that Senator Coburn realizes the depth that the subjects brought up by the OWS people are resonating with the American Public, and wants to be on the right side as this comes down on November 2012.

The only thing coming out of OWS that resonates with the American people are protesters defecating on police cars and fighting with police. Noone gives a rats ass about these nany state loving thugs and bums. I want them to protest all the way up to the 2012 elections, seriously, and I think every city in America should have about 600 OWS protesters in it carrying on like they are now, because the Democrats backed this movement and the people know it. The longer they carry on with it the worse off it's gonna be for the Democrats.

 

[Inthemiddle]

There are no tax breaks for big oil that are exclusively for them. They take advantage of the tax breaks available to everyone in the tax code.

WRONG!!!!

1. Intangible drilling costs. Firms engaged in the exploration and development of oil or gas properties may expense (deduct in the year paid or incurred) certain types of drilling expenditures from their taxes. These costs include wages, fuel, repairs, hauling, and supplies related to and necessary for drilling and preparing wells for the production of oil and gas. Other companies incurring similar types of costs must recover this cost over the life of the investment. The administration expects that eliminating this subsidy will produce budget savings of about $7.839 billion over 10 years.

2. Deduction for tertiary injectants. Tertiary, or enhanced oil recovery, methods increase the amount of oil that a company can extract from a well by an additional 5 percent to 15 percent according to some research. This tax expenditure subsidizes the costs of tertiary injectants—the fluids, gases, and other chemicals that are pumped into oil and gas reservoirs as part of this process. The subsidy essentially gives companies government money for acting in ways that will enhance their profits. It allows companies to expense the costs of tertiary injectants, even though such costs should be recovered over time. Companies can alternatively choose to deduct these costs as an intangible drilling cost.The administration expects that eliminating this subsidy will produce budget savings of about $67 million over 10 years.

3. Percentage depletion allowance. Percentage depletion allows an independent oil company to deduct from its taxes about 15 percent from the revenue generated from a well, even if that amount exceeds the well’s total value. This means that oil companies take a deduction as long as a well is producing oil, without regard to how much, or whether, the well is still declining in value. Companies in other industries are only allowed to deduct an amount that represents the decline in their investment’s value that year. The administration expects that eliminating this subsidy to produce budget savings of about $10 billion over 10 years.

4. Passive investments. The government generally only allows investors to deduct a limited amount of losses from “passive activities” such as renting land in order to prevent tax shelters. Yet oil and gas properties are exempt from this rule. This gives oil and gas companies a competitive edge over other types of energy companies. The administration expects that eliminating this subsidy will produce budget savings of about $180 million over 10 years.

5. Domestic manufacturing tax deduction. Companies that manufacture, produce, or extract oil and gas or any primary derivative receive a manufacturing subsidy provided that the product was made in the United States. But since removing this subsidy does not affect the production of oil, the subsidy does not significantly affect business decisions and eliminating the subsidy would not affect consumer prices. The subsidy is essentially a throwaway for oil companies. The tax expenditure is provided through a deduction for 9 percent of income, subject to a limit of 50 percent of the wages paid that are allocable to domestic production during the taxable year. The administration expects that eliminating this subsidy will produce budget savings of about $17.3 billion over 10 years.

6. Geological and geophysical expenditures. The Energy Policy Act of 2005 created this tax subsidy, which allows companies to deduct the costs associated with searching for oil, recovering the costs over a two-year period. The administration expects that scaling back the amortization period to seven years would produce budget savings of about $1.1 billion over 10 years.

7. Foreign tax credit. This credit is intended to prevent the double taxation of income that is taxed abroad but also subject to tax in the United States. Yet companies, particularly oil companies, have managed to exploit this subsidy even when they don’t pay income taxes abroad. In total, adjusting the rule would prevent companies from avoiding about $8.5 billion in taxes over a 10-year period.

8. Enhanced oil recovery credit. Companies receive a 15 percent income tax credit for the costs of recovering domestic oil when they use “enhanced oil recovery” methods to extract oil that is too viscous to be extracted by conventional primary and secondary water-flooding techniques. The EOR credit is nonrefundable and is allowed if the average wellhead price of crude oil (using West Texas Intermediate as the reference) in the year before the credit is claimed is below the statutorily established threshold price of $28 (as adjusted for inflation since 1990) in the year the credit is claimed. Oil prices in fiscal year 2006 were too high for companies to receive this subsidy, but the subsidy remains in existence. Its elimination is not expected to produce budget savings.

9. Marginal well production. This provision provides a subsidy for oil and gas produced from certain types of oil and gas wells. These wells include those that produce heavy oil and those with an average production within a statutorily specified range. Oil prices were too high for companies to receive this subsidy in fiscal year 2006, but the subsidy remains in existence. Its elimination is not expected to produce budget savings.

Eliminating Tax Subsidies for Oil Companies

However, tax breaks aren't hand outs, welfare, nor a subsidy. So it's a moot point.

See, this is what I meant earlier!

 

[Mr. Shaman]

Strange statements from Colburn. Maybe he's switching parties.

And why would that be when Conservatives have long opposed government handouts for everyone?

.....Until (of course) those Wars For Profit are initiated.....and, contractor$ are needed.

$ $ $ $ $

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UbDfYzq_HaQ]Truth about Halliburton and Dick Cheney - YouTube[/ame]
*
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=chXjCtkymRQ]US Troops in Iraq talk about Halliburton & KBR - YouTube[/ame]
*
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7pQ7UB5MjnA]iraq for sale Part 1 - YouTube[/ame]​

 

[grunt11b]

$30 billion eh? Gosh, that's like 7 days of federal expenditures. Problem solved!

That said, if we're going to have an income tax, I agree we should eliminate all the tax loopholes and make EVERYONE pay.

A fair tax would do just fine. That way the drug dealers and hookers and all the welfare recipients working under the table would ALL have to pay there "Fair share".

 

[eflatminor]

Who is stealing from whom?
Why is the working class seeing a decline in wealth and has seen flat wages for years? During the time frame which saw workers wages stagnate, the top tier saw their wealth and income rise.

Well, when some citizens are forced with the threat of incarceration to pay for charity directed towards other citizens, that would be theft. After all, if I mug you, take your money but then give it to a homeless person, have I not stolen from you?

That one segment of the population saw a decline in their wealth while another saw an increase does not mean the latter stole from the former. That is called a non sequitur, unless of course you have some evidence that money was taken from working class citizens and given to wealthy people. Do you?

The truth is you think MORE should be taken from the wealthy and distributed to the less wealthy. That is simply more stealing.

Now, back to your religious argument. How's that going???

 

[grunt11b]

Yes! More suffering for the poor!

Most of the poor suffer because they choose to, not because of any situation that they could not control. I feel no heart break for the lazy.
If the poor that are lazy need to suffer more so that the working tax payers in America can enjoy more prosperity with there hard earned dollar, so be it, fuck the lazy bastards.

 

[Mr. Shaman]

I think that Senator Coburn realizes the depth that the subjects brought up by the OWS people are resonating with the American Public, and wants to be on the right side as this comes down on November 2012.

Bingo!!!

​

 

[Inthemiddle]

Does the Bible say it's okay to steal from some in order to give to others? Or, does it say Christians should be charitable?

Nobody is stealing from you. You're being legally taxed as enacted by the legislature where YOU have fair and proportional representation, as determined by free and fair elections.

Oh, and the bible says to give unto Caesar that which it Caesar's.

 

[grunt11b]

Americans are the richest 5% of the world. We are all the well-off.

Hence, we should end welfare/subsidies, etc for everyone.

Let's get back to what America really means: Liberty to choose your own destiny.

Yep, Sen. Tom Coburn was half right.
Let's end it for the wealthy and poor alike.

The Bible has well over 100 passages telling us to help the poor. To read those passages go to this link:
Bible: Caring for and serving the poor

The GOP House took the time to reaffirm the US motto "In God We Trust". Most of those who cry and moan about helping the poor are conservatives who support the GOP and also claim to be good church going Christians. Maybe, instead of whining about helping those in need, they should heed to the Bible and follow their leaders to the point of "In God We Trust", instead of openly contradicting the Word of God by their actions.

Helping the poor should never be a partisan issue because it's a Christian issue because God told us to take care of the needy.

Yes, help the poor, not pay there way through life. It's two different things. It's funny how Democrats quote the bible when it's convenient to there cause, but at any other time they do not want religion being talked about in the public square.
The best way to help the lazy people that you consider to be poor is to stop giving them free shit, trust me...they will go find a job if they have to.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Strange statements from Colburn. Maybe he's switching parties.

And why would that be when Conservatives have long opposed government handouts for everyone?

Stop it, Avatar4321. You are NOT a conservative, merely a wack reactionary along the Beck-Skousen-JBS axis. We don't live in the 19th century.

 

[eflatminor]

Does the Bible say it's okay to steal from some in order to give to others? Or, does it say Christians should be charitable?

Nobody is stealing from you. You're being legally taxed as enacted by the legislature where YOU have fair and proportional representation, as determined by free and fair elections.

Oh, and the bible says to give unto Caesar that which it Caesar's.

Well that's the crux of it isn't it? "..that which is Caesar's" means that which the government is legally entitled to. In America, that is defined in the Constitution. Please point to the enumerated power giving the federal government the right to force citizens to support welfare, Medicade, Medicare, Obamacare, etc, etc, etc.

That Congress has violated the law of the land does not make them Caesar.

 

[grunt11b]

Does the Bible say it's okay to steal from some in order to give to others? Or, does it say Christians should be charitable?

Nobody is stealing from you. You're being legally taxed as enacted by the legislature where YOU have fair and proportional representation, as determined by free and fair elections.

Oh, and the bible says to give unto Caesar that which it Caesar's.

"To promote the general welfare" does not mean tax one person to give to another. They do not have the authority to steal from one citizen and give it to another. The power to levy taxes was never intended for that and it is an atrocity that it was ever allowed to happen to begin with.

 

[Inthemiddle]

Please point to the enumerated power giving the federal government the right to force citizens to support welfare, Medicade, Medicare, Obamacare, etc, etc, etc.

That Congress has violated the law of the land does not make them Caesar.

Just because you don't like it doesn't make it unconstitutional.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Please point to the enumerated power giving the federal government the right to force citizens to support welfare, Medicade, Medicare, Obamacare, etc, etc, etc.

That Congress has violated the law of the land does not make them Caesar.

Just because you don't like it doesn't make it unconstitutional.

eflat does not get that he is subject to the constitutional and electoral process of the country, whether he approves or not. Tis what tis.

 

[eflatminor]

Please point to the enumerated power giving the federal government the right to force citizens to support welfare, Medicade, Medicare, Obamacare, etc, etc, etc.

That Congress has violated the law of the land does not make them Caesar.

Just because you don't like it doesn't make it unconstitutional.

Thank you for proving my point. If you can't point to the authority, it does not exist. That I don't like it has nothing to do with the law of the land. You and Caesar can go to hell.