City subpoenas pastors' sermons in equal rights ordinance case

[Jroc]

I'm thinking this will backfire on these politicians...

Protestors gather outside of City Hall after Mayor Annise Parker and supporters of her proposed nondiscrimination ordinance announced a compromise, Tuesday, May 13, 2014, in Houston. The proposed change in the Houston Equal Rights Ordinance would specify that no business open to the public could deny a transgender person entry to the restroom consistent with his or her gender identity. (Cody Duty / Houston Chronicle


Houston's embattled equal rights ordinance took another legal turn this week when it surfaced that city attorneys, in an unusual step, subpoenaed sermons given by local pastors who oppose the law and are tied to the conservative Christian activists that have sued the city.

Opponents of the equal rights ordinance are hoping to force a repeal referendum when they get their day in court in January, claiming City Attorney David Feldmanwrongly determined they had not gathered enough valid signatures to qualify for the ballot. City attorneys issued subpoenas last month during the case's discovery phase, seeking, among other communications, "all speeches, presentations, or sermons related to HERO, the Petition, Mayor Annise Parker, homosexuality, or gender identity prepared by, delivered by, revised by, or approved by you or in your possession.

"

 

[MisterBeale]

You need to learn how to link to your sources.

 

[MisterBeale]

City subpoenas sermons in equal rights case
City subpoenas sermons in equal rights case - Houston Chronicle

The subpoenas, however, are tied to the January district court date and request more than just sermons. The requests touch on a wide range of communications among the pastors, with their congregations and with city officials about the ordinance, including "any discussion about whether or how HERO does or does not impact restroom access."

Opponents frequently have cited the perceived threat of male sexual predators dressed in drag entering women's restrooms, dubbing the measure the "Sexual Predator Protection Act."

The ordinance protects transgender residents' ability to use the restroom consistent with their gender expression, regardless of their biological sex, but puts the onus on the individual to prove he or she was a victim of bias.

The city also is seeking any information about payments and incentives offered to people contracted to circulate the petitions, and the tax information associated with those payments.

The city does not intend to back down from its request and is working on a response to the Alliance Defending Freedom's motion, Feldman said.

 

[TemplarKormac]

City subpoenas sermons in equal rights case
City subpoenas sermons in equal rights case - Houston Chronicle

The subpoenas, however, are tied to the January district court date and request more than just sermons. The requests touch on a wide range of communications among the pastors, with their congregations and with city officials about the ordinance, including "any discussion about whether or how HERO does or does not impact restroom access."

Opponents frequently have cited the perceived threat of male sexual predators dressed in drag entering women's restrooms, dubbing the measure the "Sexual Predator Protection Act."

The ordinance protects transgender residents' ability to use the restroom consistent with their gender expression, regardless of their biological sex, but puts the onus on the individual to prove he or she was a victim of bias.

The city also is seeking any information about payments and incentives offered to people contracted to circulate the petitions, and the tax information associated with those payments.

The city does not intend to back down from its request and is working on a response to the Alliance Defending Freedom's motion, Feldman said.

You need to learn how to voice your opinions, mister. So do you think it's okay to suppress free speech? It is wrong, no matter how you slice it. What is there equal if people of faith are being singled out for their views on gay rights or transgendered people?

What say you?

 

[MisterBeale]

I'm sort of on the fence there. On the one hand I think it is reprehensible. I don't think these religious organizations should be harassed in anyway.

On the other hand, I am willing to bet, these religious organizations asked for it. They have probably sold out their sovereignty and agreed to play by Caesar's rules a long time ago.

See, the thing is, the Constitution is supposed to guarantee religious institutions total freedom. However, fifty years ago, our nation broke this rule with the tax code. It designated churches 501c organizations. THAT was wrong. It should not have recognized them at all in the tax code. They aren't anything. There IS NO RELATIONSHIP between church and state.

As soon as the church registers its existence as a legal entity, as a tax exempt corporation? It ceases to be a force for spiritual guidance and becomes a legal entity that can be brought to court. Only churches that don't recognize tax code, only churches that respect their place in the constitution and refuse to file a 501c and be identified as a legal entity rather than a spiritual entity should be worried about this.

If you play the Caesar's game, expect Caesar's minions to give it to you.

Most churches in America have organized as "501c3 tax-exempt religious organizations." This is a fairly recent trend that has only been going on for about fifty years. Churches were only added to section 501c3 of the tax code in 1954. We can thank Sen. Lyndon B. Johnson for that. Johnson was no ally of the church. As part of his political agenda, Johnson had it in mind to silence the church and eliminate the significant influence the church had always had on shaping "public policy."

501c3 Facts about 501c3 tax-exempt status for the church

IRS explanation of the statute
The Internal Revenue Service website elaborates upon this prohibition as follows:

Under the Internal Revenue Code, all section 501(c)(3) organizations are absolutely prohibited from directly or indirectly participating in, or intervening in, any political campaign on behalf of (or in opposition to) any candidate for elective public office. Contributions to political campaign funds or public statements of position (verbal or written) made on behalf of the organization in favor of or in opposition to any candidate for public office clearly violate the prohibition against political campaign activity. Violating this prohibition may result in denial or revocation of tax-exempt status and the imposition of certain excise taxes.

Certain activities or expenditures may not be prohibited depending on the facts and circumstances. For example, certain voter education activities (including presenting public forums and publishing voter education guides) conducted in a non-partisan manner do not constitute prohibited political campaign activity. In addition, other activities intended to encourage people to participate in the electoral process, such as voter registration and get-out-the-vote drives, would not be prohibited political campaign activity if conducted in a non-partisan manner.

On the other hand, voter education or registration activities with evidence of bias that (a) would favor one candidate over another; (b) oppose a candidate in some manner; or (c) have the effect of favoring a candidate or group of candidates, will constitute prohibited participation or intervention.

The Internal Revenue Service provides resources to exempt organizations and the public to help them understand the prohibition. As part of its examination program, the IRS also monitors whether organizations are complying with the prohibition.

 

[Katzndogz]

This is going no place. It is completely unconstitutional. The subpoena also asked for all communications between those pastors and their congregants. The mayor has already bleated that she had nothing to do with it and never knew those supoenas were issued. Too late. The Attorney General has already gotten involved. That would be Greg Abbott who is also running for Governor. The plan to harass the pastors may have insured an Abbott victory.

 

[Jroc]

This is going no place. It is completely unconstitutional. The subpoena also asked for all communications between those pastors and their congregants. The mayor has already bleated that she had nothing to do with it and never knew those supoenas were issued. Too late. The Attorney General has already gotten involved. That would be Greg Abbott who is also running for Governor. The plan to harass the pastors may have insured an Abbott victory.

it starts here, wont end here

 

[TemplarKormac]

I'm sort of on the fence there. On the one hand I think it is reprehensible. I don't think these religious organizations should be harassed in anyway.

On the other hand, I am willing to bet, these religious organizations asked for it. They have probably sold out their sovereignty and agreed to play by Caesar's rules a long time ago.

See, the thing is, the Constitution is supposed to guarantee religious institutions total freedom. However, fifty years ago, our nation broke this rule with the tax code. It designated churches 501c organizations. THAT was wrong. It should not have recognized them at all in the tax code. They aren't anything. There IS NO RELATIONSHIP between church and state.

As soon as the church registers its existence as a legal entity, as a tax exempt corporation? It ceases to be a force for spiritual guidance and becomes a legal entity that can be brought to court. Only churches that don't recognize tax code, only churches that respect their place in the constitution and refuse to file a 501c and be identified as a legal entity rather than a spiritual entity should be worried about this.

If you play the Caesar's game, expect Caesar's minions to give it to you.

Most churches in America have organized as "501c3 tax-exempt religious organizations." This is a fairly recent trend that has only been going on for about fifty years. Churches were only added to section 501c3 of the tax code in 1954. We can thank Sen. Lyndon B. Johnson for that. Johnson was no ally of the church. As part of his political agenda, Johnson had it in mind to silence the church and eliminate the significant influence the church had always had on shaping "public policy."

501c3 Facts about 501c3 tax-exempt status for the church

IRS explanation of the statute
The Internal Revenue Service website elaborates upon this prohibition as follows:

Under the Internal Revenue Code, all section 501(c)(3) organizations are absolutely prohibited from directly or indirectly participating in, or intervening in, any political campaign on behalf of (or in opposition to) any candidate for elective public office. Contributions to political campaign funds or public statements of position (verbal or written) made on behalf of the organization in favor of or in opposition to any candidate for public office clearly violate the prohibition against political campaign activity. Violating this prohibition may result in denial or revocation of tax-exempt status and the imposition of certain excise taxes.

Certain activities or expenditures may not be prohibited depending on the facts and circumstances. For example, certain voter education activities (including presenting public forums and publishing voter education guides) conducted in a non-partisan manner do not constitute prohibited political campaign activity. In addition, other activities intended to encourage people to participate in the electoral process, such as voter registration and get-out-the-vote drives, would not be prohibited political campaign activity if conducted in a non-partisan manner.

On the other hand, voter education or registration activities with evidence of bias that (a) would favor one candidate over another; (b) oppose a candidate in some manner; or (c) have the effect of favoring a candidate or group of candidates, will constitute prohibited participation or intervention.

The Internal Revenue Service provides resources to exempt organizations and the public to help them understand the prohibition. As part of its examination program, the IRS also monitors whether organizations are complying with the prohibition.

Then you risk ending a lot of churches simply by taxing them. Not many churches can operate on their own solely by monetary gifts and money from the offering plate. But, with all due respect, MisterBeale, I fail to see what relevance a church's tax exempt status has to having pastors singled out and being forced to submit their sermons to a governmental body.

 

[TheOldSchool]

Freedom of religion is not the same as freedom from religion. The city was wrong. That's why they're backpedaling from this as fast as they can.

 

[Jroc]

Freedom of religion is not the same as freedom from religion. The city was wrong. That's why they're backpedaling from this as fast as they can.

it'll come again. It always does, the left just keeps pushing

 

[MisterBeale]

I'm sort of on the fence there. On the one hand I think it is reprehensible. I don't think these religious organizations should be harassed in anyway.

On the other hand, I am willing to bet, these religious organizations asked for it. They have probably sold out their sovereignty and agreed to play by Caesar's rules a long time ago.

See, the thing is, the Constitution is supposed to guarantee religious institutions total freedom. However, fifty years ago, our nation broke this rule with the tax code. It designated churches 501c organizations. THAT was wrong. It should not have recognized them at all in the tax code. They aren't anything. There IS NO RELATIONSHIP between church and state.

As soon as the church registers its existence as a legal entity, as a tax exempt corporation? It ceases to be a force for spiritual guidance and becomes a legal entity that can be brought to court. Only churches that don't recognize tax code, only churches that respect their place in the constitution and refuse to file a 501c and be identified as a legal entity rather than a spiritual entity should be worried about this.

If you play the Caesar's game, expect Caesar's minions to give it to you.

Most churches in America have organized as "501c3 tax-exempt religious organizations." This is a fairly recent trend that has only been going on for about fifty years. Churches were only added to section 501c3 of the tax code in 1954. We can thank Sen. Lyndon B. Johnson for that. Johnson was no ally of the church. As part of his political agenda, Johnson had it in mind to silence the church and eliminate the significant influence the church had always had on shaping "public policy."

501c3 Facts about 501c3 tax-exempt status for the church

IRS explanation of the statute
The Internal Revenue Service website elaborates upon this prohibition as follows:

Under the Internal Revenue Code, all section 501(c)(3) organizations are absolutely prohibited from directly or indirectly participating in, or intervening in, any political campaign on behalf of (or in opposition to) any candidate for elective public office. Contributions to political campaign funds or public statements of position (verbal or written) made on behalf of the organization in favor of or in opposition to any candidate for public office clearly violate the prohibition against political campaign activity. Violating this prohibition may result in denial or revocation of tax-exempt status and the imposition of certain excise taxes.

Certain activities or expenditures may not be prohibited depending on the facts and circumstances. For example, certain voter education activities (including presenting public forums and publishing voter education guides) conducted in a non-partisan manner do not constitute prohibited political campaign activity. In addition, other activities intended to encourage people to participate in the electoral process, such as voter registration and get-out-the-vote drives, would not be prohibited political campaign activity if conducted in a non-partisan manner.

On the other hand, voter education or registration activities with evidence of bias that (a) would favor one candidate over another; (b) oppose a candidate in some manner; or (c) have the effect of favoring a candidate or group of candidates, will constitute prohibited participation or intervention.

The Internal Revenue Service provides resources to exempt organizations and the public to help them understand the prohibition. As part of its examination program, the IRS also monitors whether organizations are complying with the prohibition.

Then you risk ending a lot of churches simply by taxing them. Not many churches can operate on their own solely by monetary gifts and money from the offering plate. But, with all due respect, MisterBeale, I fail to see what relevance a church's tax exempt status has to having pastors singled out and being forced to submit their sermons to a governmental body.

How else do you think they operate? They operate from donations or from parent organizations operating budgets, that's it. All places of worship are inherently tax exempt, they don't NEED to file a 501c in the first place. If they don't, then they cannot only conduct their business, but they can say anything they want, and they don't need to adhere to the rules of 501c non-profit incorporation.

If these pastors that were subpoenaed weren't 501c's, legally? Because of the first Amendment, they would not be able to be subpoenaed. Remember, we have that wall, the separation of church and state. That allows them to say what ever they want and not be bothered.

However, if they have agreed to have their parishes/churches to become incorporated, well then? That means they are legal entity under USC and not just a Church. They are bound by USC rules. That means, legally, they CAN be subpoenaed.

It really is, as simple as that.

Churches aren't required to file for 501c status. They can still financially operate and do everything a 501c can do though. They are tricked into thinking they NEED to file, when they don't. However, ALMOST EVERY CHURCH FILES 501c status. Almost every church is a STATE CHURCH. Look it up if you don't believe me. It's why I stopped going to church. I am a free man, my soul does not belong to Caesar.

(Folks will sit in the pews on Sunday while our government uses drones to kill children. It's bullshit. The Christ would NEVER approve of any of these so called 501c Christian churches.)

However, IF they file for 501c status, which gives them CORPORATE status, with all the privileges attendant to that under USC law, then under USC, they are NOT ALLOWED to engage in political activity. END OF STORY.

This is how SATAN and the "Illuminati," the Jesuits, or their proxies, the Jews, were able to corrupt the moral character of the nation. How do you think Hollywood could have ever degraded and degenerated the American culture if the pulpit would not have been gagged like it has been over the past sixty years?

Remember, this was written, and originally broadcast at the same time as the Johnson Amendment went into the tax code.

Long time radio newsman/commentator Paul Harvey created the original of this homily around 1965. This one is probably from about 1996. It was updated as the years went by and therefore versions of it vary over time. It is a warning to America about its own decay.

 

[Jroc]

I'm sort of on the fence there. On the one hand I think it is reprehensible. I don't think these religious organizations should be harassed in anyway.

On the other hand, I am willing to bet, these religious organizations asked for it. They have probably sold out their sovereignty and agreed to play by Caesar's rules a long time ago.

See, the thing is, the Constitution is supposed to guarantee religious institutions total freedom. However, fifty years ago, our nation broke this rule with the tax code. It designated churches 501c organizations. THAT was wrong. It should not have recognized them at all in the tax code. They aren't anything. There IS NO RELATIONSHIP between church and state.

As soon as the church registers its existence as a legal entity, as a tax exempt corporation? It ceases to be a force for spiritual guidance and becomes a legal entity that can be brought to court. Only churches that don't recognize tax code, only churches that respect their place in the constitution and refuse to file a 501c and be identified as a legal entity rather than a spiritual entity should be worried about this.

If you play the Caesar's game, expect Caesar's minions to give it to you.

Most churches in America have organized as "501c3 tax-exempt religious organizations." This is a fairly recent trend that has only been going on for about fifty years. Churches were only added to section 501c3 of the tax code in 1954. We can thank Sen. Lyndon B. Johnson for that. Johnson was no ally of the church. As part of his political agenda, Johnson had it in mind to silence the church and eliminate the significant influence the church had always had on shaping "public policy."

501c3 Facts about 501c3 tax-exempt status for the church

IRS explanation of the statute
The Internal Revenue Service website elaborates upon this prohibition as follows:

Under the Internal Revenue Code, all section 501(c)(3) organizations are absolutely prohibited from directly or indirectly participating in, or intervening in, any political campaign on behalf of (or in opposition to) any candidate for elective public office. Contributions to political campaign funds or public statements of position (verbal or written) made on behalf of the organization in favor of or in opposition to any candidate for public office clearly violate the prohibition against political campaign activity. Violating this prohibition may result in denial or revocation of tax-exempt status and the imposition of certain excise taxes.

Certain activities or expenditures may not be prohibited depending on the facts and circumstances. For example, certain voter education activities (including presenting public forums and publishing voter education guides) conducted in a non-partisan manner do not constitute prohibited political campaign activity. In addition, other activities intended to encourage people to participate in the electoral process, such as voter registration and get-out-the-vote drives, would not be prohibited political campaign activity if conducted in a non-partisan manner.

On the other hand, voter education or registration activities with evidence of bias that (a) would favor one candidate over another; (b) oppose a candidate in some manner; or (c) have the effect of favoring a candidate or group of candidates, will constitute prohibited participation or intervention.

The Internal Revenue Service provides resources to exempt organizations and the public to help them understand the prohibition. As part of its examination program, the IRS also monitors whether organizations are complying with the prohibition.

Then you risk ending a lot of churches simply by taxing them. Not many churches can operate on their own solely by monetary gifts and money from the offering plate. But, with all due respect, MisterBeale, I fail to see what relevance a church's tax exempt status has to having pastors singled out and being forced to submit their sermons to a governmental body.

How else do you think they operate? They operate from donations or from parent organizations operating budgets, that's it. All places of worship are inherently tax exempt, they don't NEED to file a 501c in the first place. If they don't, then they cannot only conduct their business, but they can say anything they want, and they don't need to adhere to the rules of 501c non-profit incorporation.

If these pastors that were subpoenaed weren't 501c's, legally? Because of the first Amendment, they would not be able to be subpoenaed. Remember, we have that wall, the separation of church and state. That allows them to say what ever they want and not be bothered.

However, if they have agreed to have their parishes/churches to become incorporated, well then? That means they are legal entity under USC and not just a Church. They are bound by USC rules.

It really is, as simple as that.

Churches aren't required to file for 501c status. They can still financially operate and do everything a 501c can do though. They are tricked into thinking they NEED to file, when they don't. However, ALMOST EVERY CHURCH FILES 501c status. Almost every church is a STATE CHURCH. Look it up if you don't believe me. It's why I stopped going to church. I am a free man, my soul does not belong to Caesar.

(Folks will sit in the pews on Sunday while our government uses drones to kill children. It's bullshit. The Christ would NEVER approve of any of these so called 501c Christian churches.)

However, IF they file for 501c status, which gives them CORPORATE status, with all the privileges attendant to that under USC law, then under USC, they are NOT ALLOWED to engage in political activity. END OF STORY.

This is how SATAN and the "Illuminati," the Jesuits, or their proxies, the Jews, were able to corrupt the moral character of the nation. How do you think Hollywood could have ever degraded and degenerated the American culture if the pulpit would not have been gagged like it has been over the past sixty years?

Remember, this was written, and originally broadcast at the same time as the Johnson Amendment went into the tax code.

Long time radio newsman/commentator Paul Harvey created the original of this homily around 1965. This one is probably from about 1996. It was updated as the years went by and therefore versions of it vary over time. It is a warning to America about its own decay.

What a nut

 

[MisterBeale]

What a nut

 

[Jroc]

What a nut

Loony tunes boy get some help

This is how SATAN and the "Illuminati," the Jesuits, or their proxies, the Jews, were able to corrupt the moral character of the nation

.

 

[MisterBeale]

What a nut

Loony tunes boy get some help

This is how SATAN and the "Illuminati," the Jesuits, or their proxies, the Jews, were able to corrupt the moral character of the nation

.

You don't know me, I don't know you, let's leave it there.