Christian Cabinet Minister gunned down in Pakistan

[High_Gravity]

Gunmen Kill Pakistani Cabinet Minister

ISLAMABAD, Pakistan — The only Christian minister in the Pakistan government was shot dead on Wednesday morning as he left his home in the capital to attend a cabinet meeting, an attack strikingly similar to the killing two months ago of another senior politician holding liberal views.

Unidentified relatives of the minorities minister, Shahbaz Bhatti, look at the car in which he was killed in Islamabad on Wednesday.
Shahbaz Bhatti, the minister of minorities, was shot eight times by gunmen who ambushed him as he stepped into his car, police officials said. A pamphlet written by a group of Taliban from the province of Punjab was found near the scene in a middle-class residential neighborhood, the officials said.

Witnesses said three gunmen stopped the minister’s black Toyota Corolla at the corner of his street, pulled the driver out of the car and began firing. The gunmen were wearing traditional Pakistani garb of baggy pants and long tunic, the inspector general of Islamabad police, Wajid Durrani, said. The pamphlet found at the site warned against changes in Pakistan’s draconian blasphemy law and bore the imprint of the Taliban and al Qaeda, police officials said. It specifically named Mr. Bhatti.

Mr. Bhatti, like Salman Taseer, the governor of Punjab who was gunned down Jan. 4, had campaigned for the reform of Pakistan’s blasphemy law. The law, introduced in the 1970s, calls for the death penalty for those accused of speaking against the Prophet Muhammad.

In Washington, Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton called the assassination “an attack not only on one man but on the values of tolerance and respect for people of all faiths and backgrounds that had been championed by Mohammed Ali Jinnah, the founder of Pakistan.” Mrs. Clinton, who recently met with him, called him a “very impressive, courageous man” who knew the danger he faced.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/03/world/asia/03pakistan.html?ref=world

 

[Ropey]

Self-described Taliban gunmen have shot dead Pakistan's minorities minister, Shahbaz Bhatti, an advocate of reform of the country's blasphemy laws, as he left his Islamabad home.

Two assassins sprayed the Christian minister's car with gunfire, striking him at least eight times, before scattering pamphlets that described him as a "Christian infidel". The leaflets were signed "Taliban al-Qaida Punjab".

Shahbaz Bhatti, a critic of Pakistan's blasphemy laws, discusses threats to his life

Link to this video

Bhatti's assassination was the second killing of a politician in Islamabad over blasphemy in as many months, following the assassination of the Punjab governor Salmaan Taseer outside a cafe a few miles away on 4 January.

Ali Dayan Hasan of Human Rights Watch said Bhatti's death represented "the bitter fruit of appeasement of extremist and militant groups both prior to and after the killing of Salmaan Taseer".

The embattled Christian community also voiced concerns about its safety. "We feel very insecure," said Bhatti's brother in law, Yousaf Nishan. "In this society you can't open your mouth, even if you want to say something good, because you're afraid who you might offend."

Pakistan minister Shahbaz Bhatti shot dead in Islamabad | World news | guardian.co.uk

Clearly Pakistan is moving ahead in extremism.

 

[adeel_sami]

It just seems Pakistan has fallen into a terrorist state that no body is safe here.

May GOD bless his soul, amen ..

 

[High_Gravity]

It just seems Pakistan has fallen into a terrorist state that no body is safe here.

May GOD bless his soul, amen ..

I feel sorry for the law abiding honest Pakistanis that have to live with scum like the Taliban running Pakistan.

 

[Ropey]

It just seems Pakistan has fallen into a terrorist state that no body is safe here.

May GOD bless his soul, amen ..

I feel sorry for the law abiding honest Pakistanis that have to live with scum like the Taliban running Pakistan.

It's not a simple thing. Moderates are moderate and fall to extremism due to fear. I see little to no chance in Pakistan and Afghanistan.

We know what the Madrassas are teaching and we are allowing it to occur due to fear.

The madaris rose as colleges of learning in the Islamic world in the 11th century, though there were institutions of learning earlier.[2] They catered not only to the religious establishment, though that was the dominant influence over them, but also the secular one. To the latter they supplied physicians, administrative officials, judges and teachers.

In 1947 there were only 189 madrassas in Pakistan.[3] In 2002 the country had 10,000-13,000 unregistered madrassas with an estimated 1.7 to 1.9 million students.[4] A 2008 estimate puts this figure at "over 40,000".[3]

Most madrassas in Pakistan cater to the dominant Sunni sect, with an estimated 14-20% madrassas serving the minority Shia population.

Madrassas in Pakistan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"No one thought to ask about what would happen next...nearly an entire generation came of age in a peculiar all-male world where the only concern was the Koran, sharia law and the glorification of jihad" ”

—Dina Temple-Raston

So, the extremists get stronger. Political correctness has stopped reality from setting in until the next attack on Western Philosophical soil.

All talbanism which is happening in Pakistan is because of Qutubi ideology .Jamaat Islami played the main role promoting terrorism and hatred .The Madaris started 50 years ago was not intend to get the power in the country ,Deoband Ulema like Ashraf Ali Thanwi ,Shabir Ahmed Usmani ,Qasim Nanatwi or Mufi Muhammad Shafi had different concepts then Todays deobandis like Taliban ,And this is because of the Jamaat Islami ideology which was injected in Deoband Madaris during Afghan war .Now Deobani Madaris and Jamaat islami has become one ideology ,Thats why Munwer hasan says “Ham aur Taliban aik hi hain ”
Shamir Ahmed Usmani worked with Qaid-e-azam ,Muti-e-Azam pakistan never asked Khilafat aur aur Mulla government in Pakistan .
Jamaat Islami members is very few in numbers but they have managed to inject their virus in all Pakistani nation .

I have a magazine called “terjuman-ul-Quran ” from Jamat Islami and I find ninety percent topics are hatred and on “amrika “.

Jihadi public schools? ? by Ali K Chishti*|*Let Us Build Pakistan

It's not as though moderates are not telling us. It is that the leadership is not listening and relating it and the media is unwilling to touch such a thing.

 

[High_Gravity]

Islamic radicals control Pakistan, Benazir Bhutto was gunned down because she did not fall in line, anyone who tries to change Pakistan will be killed. And Ropey you are right the madrassas are a problem, they are built and funded by moneys from the Arab Gulf countries, they are basically incubators that breed Islamic extremism, until that is addressed there is no hope for change.

 

[Kalam]

All talbanism which is happening in Pakistan is because of Qutubi ideology .Jamaat Islami played the main role promoting terrorism and hatred .The Madaris started 50 years ago was not intend to get the power in the country ,Deoband Ulema like Ashraf Ali Thanwi ,Shabir Ahmed Usmani ,Qasim Nanatwi or Mufi Muhammad Shafi had different concepts then Todays deobandis like Taliban ,And this is because of the Jamaat Islami ideology which was injected in Deoband Madaris during Afghan war .Now Deobani Madaris and Jamaat islami has become one ideology ,Thats why Munwer hasan says “Ham aur Taliban aik hi hain ”
Shamir Ahmed Usmani worked with Qaid-e-azam ,Muti-e-Azam pakistan never asked Khilafat aur aur Mulla government in Pakistan .
Jamaat Islami members is very few in numbers but they have managed to inject their virus in all Pakistani nation .

I have a magazine called “terjuman-ul-Quran ” from Jamat Islami and I find ninety percent topics are hatred and on “amrika “.

Couple of problems with this. Qutb's ideology was very international in its outlook while the Taliban regime had markedly few aspirations outside of its own borders. The Taliban also aren't Deobandi even though some of them apparently studied at Deobandi madaaris -- the original students' movement may have been Deobandi but reports concerning the actions of Taliban-controlled Afghanistan indicate a blatant disregard for Hanafi fiqh (and for the other schools, for that matter.) I also disagree that Jamaat-e-Islami promotes 'hatred' and 'terrorism' in spite of my disagreement with Maududi on a number of issues.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PA9_bySZgSU"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PA9_bySZgSU[/ame]

 

[Ropey]

Islamic radicals control Pakistan, Benazir Bhutto was gunned down because she did not fall in line, anyone who tries to change Pakistan will be killed. And Ropey you are right the madrassas are a problem, they are built and funded by moneys from the Arab Gulf countries, they are basically incubators that breed Islamic extremism, until that is addressed there is no hope for change.

Yes, we can see what is coming out. We will see it on the ground. Some can disagree on this and that all they want.

I have little to say to those who simply minimize events, isolate events and obfuscate the topics premise with belief and conjecture. The truth is on the ground. Do the events increase or decrease?

That's really what matters to me.What's happening on the ground is enough for me.

 

[High_Gravity]

Islamic radicals control Pakistan, Benazir Bhutto was gunned down because she did not fall in line, anyone who tries to change Pakistan will be killed. And Ropey you are right the madrassas are a problem, they are built and funded by moneys from the Arab Gulf countries, they are basically incubators that breed Islamic extremism, until that is addressed there is no hope for change.

Yes, we can see what is coming out. We will see it on the ground. Some can disagree on this and that all they want. The truth is on the ground. Do the events increase or decrease?

That's really what matters to me.

The situation on the ground is always what matters, not what people want and what people write on paper. In theory, Pakistan is supposed to be a valuable American ally in the war on terror and we now give them billions of dollars a year. In reality, most Pakistanis despise America, Pakistan gives some of our moneys to the Taliban and lets the Taliban use Pakistan as a sanctuary to rest, get medical treatment, re-arm and re-group. People need to wake up and see the events that are happening on the ground in that country and the way the people there really feel, Pakistan is no friend to America.

 

[Kalam]

I have little to say to those who simply minimize events, isolate events and obfuscate the topics premise with belief and conjecture. The truth is on the ground. Do the events increase or decrease?

This is your attempt to dismiss corrections of inaccuracies in a passage you posted? Everything apart from the last sentence in my post deals with purely factual information that anyone can verify. I realize that using pathetic excuses like this to avoid discussion is your MO. I still hope you eventually realize that dismissing something out of hand simply because it contradicts your preconceptions represents the peak of ignorance and anti-intellectualism.

That's really what matters to me.What's happening on the ground is enough for me.

...yet you often insist on misrepresenting that as well.

 

[Ropey]

Couple of problems with this. Qutb's ideology was very international in its outlook while the Taliban regime had markedly few aspirations outside of its own borders. The Taliban also aren't Deobandi even though some of them apparently studied at Deobandi madaaris -- the original students' movement may have been Deobandi but reports concerning the actions of Taliban-controlled Afghanistan indicate a blatant disregard for Hanafi fiqh (and for the other schools, for that matter.) I also disagree that Jamaat-e-Islami promotes 'hatred' and 'terrorism' in spite of my disagreement with Maududi on a number of issues.

Then speak to Pakistani Moderate Farquan Q

Jihadi public schools? ? by Ali K Chishti*|*Let Us Build Pakistan

He writes in Arabic as well, so you can contact him with your disagreements and let us know what he says to your response if you will.

 

[Ropey]

I have little to say to those who simply minimize events, isolate events and obfuscate the topics premise with belief and conjecture. The truth is on the ground. Do the events increase or decrease?

This is your attempt to dismiss corrections of inaccuracies in a passage you posted? Everything apart from the last sentence in my post deals with purely factual information that anyone can verify. I realize that using pathetic excuses like this to avoid discussion is your MO. I still hope you eventually realize that dismissing something out of hand simply because it contradicts your preconceptions represents the peak of ignorance and anti-intellectualism.

That's really what matters to me.What's happening on the ground is enough for me.

...yet you often insist on misrepresenting that as well.

...yet you often insist on minimizing the effects of events
...yet you often insist on casting external blame for internal acts (blaming others)
...yet you often speak about a physically non existent philosophical Islam when the acts on the ground show what is happening in the physically existent extremist Islam.

I could continue. But that's enough for me Kalam. No matter how prettily you attempt to wrap it.

 

[Kalam]

Then speak to Pakistani Moderate Farquan Q

Jihadi public schools? ? by Ali K Chishti*|*Let Us Build Pakistan

He writes in Arabic as well, so you can contact him with your disagreements and let us know what he says to your response if you will.

A blog post written a year ago? I see little point in doing that. I assume you share his perceptions since you posted them here -- are you unwilling to defend them?

That's Urdu, by the way, not Arabic.

 

[Ropey]

That's Urdu, by the way, not Arabic.

I can recognize the printing well enough, but the script does throw me. Thank you for the correction. I need not support his views with you Kalam.

He must. I just relay and allow others to make their own opinion. If you disagree, then contact him. I have little to discuss with you since our last discussion via PM.

 

[Kalam]

...yet you often insist on minimizing the effects of events
...yet you often insist on casting external blame for internal acts (blaming others)

'Minimization' is a matter of perception. Too subjective to be a legitimate criticism. I assign blame where blame is due.

...yet you often speak about a physically non existent

Word made Book.

philosophical Islam when the acts on the ground show what is happening in the physically existent extremist Islam.

If we choose to believe that the only 'events on the ground' are those which you feel are worthy of mention, yes.

 

[Jos]

Methinks ropey cares little for Christians, even less for any type of Pakistani, but posts if he can use an event to push his Anti-Muslim agenda

 

[Ropey]

...yet you often insist on minimizing the effects of events
...yet you often insist on casting external blame for internal acts (blaming others)

'Minimization' is a matter of perception. Too subjective to be a legitimate criticism. I assign blame where blame is due.

You assign blame where you think blame is due. There is a difference. You don't accept minimization as a legitimate critique?

...yet you often speak about a physically non existent

Word made Book.

Yes, the words are physical. The book is physical. That's how you play with words though kalam. There are 57 Muslim countries where one can see the physical acts of Islam. There are 22 border wars worldwide with the common factor being Islam vs...

You say that the philosophical Islam that you hold to is different from all those other ones.

Philosophical Islam when the acts on the ground show what is happening in the physically existent extremist Islam.

If we choose to believe that the only 'events on the ground' are those which you feel are worthy of mention, yes.

That's my view. You have yours. As I said in the PM. We are pretty much diametrically opposed in almost all our views with regards to Islamic interpretations.

So, just as you have your "assigning of blame".

I have my view that asks why all this...

 

[Ropey]

The International Crisis Group (ICG), a think tank organization, has said that the Pakistan military regime’s reliance on religious parties for political survival and sectarian tilt of state institutions have led to the “mushrooming” of madarsas in Karachi and other parts, which have sent ‘Jihadis’ to Jammu and Kashmir & Afghanistan.

When asked (madrasa students) about list the priorities for Pakistan,

1. 99.2 per cent of madrasa students answered yes to conquering Kashmir
2. 97.7 per cent implementation of Sharia law
3. 96.1 per cent developing nuclear weapons should continue
4. 87.7 per cent strengthening the army
5. Over 73 percent of madrasa students opposed equal rights for women
6. 81.6 per cent opposed equal rights for Ahmedis
7. 71.7 per cent were against Christians and Hindus.
8. Nearly half said Democracy was not a priority,
9. More than 76 per cent were against freedoms for the electronic media.

If you look at the above points, you can see how extremists work. No freedom, no equal rights, no democracy, no religious freedom, no press freedom!

More than ever Pakistan is currently going into the hands of extremists. The only way this can be prevented is that our Pakistani moderate brothers have to step up in curbing this extremism. They should not give-in to these extremists and have to protect their rights.

Read the complete report

The writer is a political analyst who can be reached at [email protected]

Let Us Build Pakistan*|*Archive*|*Original Articles

 

[Ropey]

Karachi’s targeted killings —Ali K Chishti

Targeted killings are an instrument where perpetrators choose to target unarmed enemy individuals in the hope of coercing surrender without having to defeat the enemy’s forces directly. During times of war, civilians often become victims of famine, disease and exposure or perish in the crossfire of opposing forces. These deaths, though tragic, do not qualify as targeted killings as defined above, because they are not intended by either party. Terrorists may also target civilians violently intentionally, bringing the conflict directly into the civilian population with the primary purpose of spreading terror, breaking the enemy’s morale, destroying the enemy’s economic productivity and sparking rebellion inside its territory.

Since the mid-1990s, targeted killings and other forms of violence in Karachi have reached their peak for the second time. The terrorists have been able to target kill more than 294 people in Karachi this year alone. However, these killings are not random; the targets are well chosen. They are the leaders of society, political workers and social activists, whose agendas differ from their opponents. It is not difficult to imagine the kind of trauma that such sustained targeted killings are causing to society. They have shaken the very foundations of Karachi. In 2009 alone, 256 people including workers of the Muttahida Qaumi Movement (MQM), Mohajir Qaumi Movement-Haqiqi (MQM-H), Pakistan People’s Party (PPP) and the Awami National Party (ANP) were assassinated, of whom 69 belonged to the MQM; 60 to MQM-H, 28 to PPP, 23 to ANP and 41 belonged to religious groups.

The Moderates ARE asking. No one is listening.

Mohajir Perspective: June 2010 2010/06/01

 

[High_Gravity]

If you look at the above points, you can see how extremists work. No freedom, no equal rights, no democracy, no religious freedom, no press freedom!

More than ever Pakistan is currently going into the hands of extremists. The only way this can be prevented is that our Pakistani moderate brothers have to step up in curbing this extremism. They should not give-in to these extremists and have to protect their rights.

I have to disagree with this quote, Pakistan already IS in the hands of the extremists.