Cheney Admits He Authorized Torture Against Guantanamo Detainees

[xsited1]

Its not a crime to use soft cushions of cumfy chairs during interrogation. It is a crime - both under US law and international law - to torture somebody, for any reason.

Nobody disagrees with that. The disagreement, of course, is how do you define torture. This is like an abortion debate where people will take sides and never waiver. I'm sure somebody would say that the use of soft cushions and cumfy chairs during an interrogation is torture for whatever reason.

 

[Xenophon]

No it doesn't. You just made that up. I doubt you've even read the UN Charter, or really care what it says even.

You should not 'doubt' peoiple you don't know, I wouldn't have said it if I hadn't, you think this issue just came up?

Probably federal district court has jurisdiction over DC.

You are proving you don't know what you are talking about, take a civics class.

Its a violation of U.S. law to torture or order torturing. That's the crime.

Define 'torture' and the relivent statues.

People that actually know what they are talking about have been arguing this for over 5 years, it's clear you are not well versed on the subject.

 

[Amanda]

From reading what was posted it didn't look like Cheney admitted to war crimes. Could you show me that part again?

 

[Steerpike]

From reading what was posted it didn't look like Cheney admitted to war crimes. Could you show me that part again?

He didn't. The title of the thread is intended to get people to read it, but is not an accurate reflection of the story.

 

[Amanda]

He didn't. The title of the thread is intended to get people to read it, but is not an accurate reflection of the story.

That's what I thought. Thanks for helping me out.

 

[SpidermanTuba]

Of course you conveniently ignore the fact that the GC only applies to legal combatants, not terrorists. *shrug*

Of course you conveniently ignore the fact that the US citizens previously tried for using water torture by U.S. authorities were tried in a U.S. court under U.S. law.

 

[SpidermanTuba]

Nobody disagrees with that. The disagreement, of course, is how do you define torture. This is like an abortion debate where people will take sides and never waiver. I'm sure somebody would say that the use of soft cushions and cumfy chairs during an interrogation is torture for whatever reason.

It doesn't matter how you personally define torture, the judicial precedent in the matter of whether or not water torture is torture is resoundingly clear - yes, water torture is torture. U.S. authorities have prosecuted both U.S. and enemy citizens for using it on numerous occasions. Plus - not to mention the fact that water torture is just obviously torture to anyone with a rational mind. Just ask the victims of Pol Pot who had water torture used on them if its torture or not.

 

[SpidermanTuba]

You should not 'doubt' peoiple you don't know, I wouldn't have said it if I hadn't, you think this issue just came up?

The UN Charter does not define what an illegal combatant is and it certainly doesn't say you can torture anybody. Seriously, you just made that up, you're not fooling anyone.

You are proving you don't know what you are talking about, take a civics class.

Which court has original jurisdiction over DC?

Define 'torture' and the relivent statues.

What is relivent? Are you denying the fact that water torture is torture?

People that actually know what they are talking about have been arguing this for over 5 years, it's clear you are not well versed on the subject.

You do realize you have contributed virtually nothing to this conversation? Your entire argument is "You don't know what you're talking about, and I do, so there!" You have provided very little factual evidence to back your assertions, all you have done is assert that your assertions can be backed by evidence without actually doing it.

 

[SpidermanTuba]

From reading what was posted it didn't look like Cheney admitted to war crimes. Could you show me that part again?

"
“I was aware of the program, certainly, and involved in helping get the process cleared, as the [Central Intelligence] Agency, in effect, came in and wanted to know what they could and couldn't do,” Cheney said. “And they talked to me, as well as others, to explain what they wanted to do. And I supported it.”
"

 

[SpidermanTuba]

He didn't. The title of the thread is intended to get people to read it, but is not an accurate reflection of the story.

"
“I was aware of the program, certainly, and involved in helping get the process cleared, as the [Central Intelligence] Agency, in effect, came in and wanted to know what they could and couldn't do,” Cheney said. “And they talked to me, as well as others, to explain what they wanted to do. And I supported it.”
"

 

[SpidermanTuba]

That's what I thought. Thanks for helping me out.

"
“I was aware of the program, certainly, and involved in helping get the process cleared, as the [Central Intelligence] Agency, in effect, came in and wanted to know what they could and couldn't do,” Cheney said. “And they talked to me, as well as others, to explain what they wanted to do. And I supported it.”

"

 

[Amanda]

"
“I was aware of the program, certainly, and involved in helping get the process cleared, as the [Central Intelligence] Agency, in effect, came in and wanted to know what they could and couldn't do,” Cheney said. “And they talked to me, as well as others, to explain what they wanted to do. And I supported it.”

"

Yeah, I read that. Where does Cheney admit to war crimes? Not your opinion that he admitted something that you think is a war crime, but where he in fact admits that he committed war crimes.

 

[xsited1]

It doesn't matter how you personally define torture, the judicial precedent in the matter of whether or not water torture is torture is resoundingly clear - yes, water torture is torture. U.S. authorities have prosecuted both U.S. and enemy citizens for using it on numerous occasions. Plus - not to mention the fact that water torture is just obviously torture to anyone with a rational mind. Just ask the victims of Pol Pot who had water torture used on them if its torture or not.

Yes, it does. But like I said, it's like the abortion debate. Neither side will give an inch, so why even try?

For anyone who is interested, this article has more information:

Waterboarding and Torture by Andrew C. McCarthy on National Review Online

 

[SpidermanTuba]

Yeah, I read that. Where does Cheney admit to war crimes? Not your opinion that he admitted something that you think is a war crime, but where he in fact admits that he committed war crimes.

My opinion doesn't matter and neither does yours. Water torture IS a war crime and a crime under US law. Cheney admits to supporting the program which used a variety of torture techniques, one of which is water torture.

 

[SpidermanTuba]

Yes, it does. But like I said, it's like the abortion debate. Neither side will give an inch, so why even try?

For anyone who is interested, this article has more information:

Waterboarding and Torture by Andrew C. McCarthy on National Review Online

Its not really a debate. Torture is illegal to use on anyone under any circumstances. Period. No debate.

 

[Amanda]

My opinion doesn't matter and neither does yours. Water torture IS a war crime and a crime under US law. Cheney admits to supporting the program which used a variety of torture techniques, one of which is water torture.

The only place I see the phrase "water torture" is from you, not any news source. Can you point out where in the article is says this, because I can't find it.

 

[xsited1]

Its not really a debate. Torture is illegal to use on anyone under any circumstances. Period. No debate.

We both agree on that. The only thing we disagree on is the definition of torture. But that makes me wonder... Would you change your mind if terrorists had kidnapped your family and the only way to save them was to get a captured terrorist to tell you where they were? What would you do? (BTW, this question isn't usually valid unless you have children that you love and care about. If you have children and you love and care about them, please feel free to answer.)

 

[SpidermanTuba]

The only place I see the phrase "water torture" is from you, not any news source. Can you point out where in the article is says this, because I can't find it.

Cheney endorses water torture:
Cheney endorses simulated drowning | World news | guardian.co.uk

Cheney confirms we use waterboarding:
The Seattle Times: Nation & World: Cheney confirms waterboarding

 

[SpidermanTuba]

We both agree on that. The only thing we disagree on is the definition of torture. But that makes me wonder...

We don't have to agree on it. Water torture has previously been defined as torture.

Would you change your mind if terrorists had kidnapped your family and the only way to save them was to get a captured terrorist to tell you where they were? What would you do? (BTW, this question isn't usually valid unless you have children that you love and care about. If you have children and you love and care about them, please feel free to answer.)

Sorry, but I prefer not to make arguments based on what I would think when in a highly emotional state. Nor is your hypothetical likely to occur anywhere off the set of "24". I know conservatives like to argue based on emotion - I don't. Torture is a crime. Dick Cheney is guilty of ordering it. Period.

 

[Amanda]

Cheney endorses water torture:
Cheney endorses simulated drowning | World news | guardian.co.uk

Cheney confirms we use waterboarding:
The Seattle Times: Nation & World: Cheney confirms waterboarding

I'm not going to read any more of your links. You have decided that waterboarding is torture. You. Not Cheney. Not any of the articles you've posted. In the first link here Cheney directly says we don't torture, so far from proving your assertion that he has ADMITTED torture it disproves it.

Now I'm going to ask you to stop for a second and think back over everything I've said. I haven't said once I approve of waterboarding. I've never said I was a fan of Cheney. All I've asked for is proof of what your thread title says. So far you haven't backed this up with a quote from Cheney where he admits we tortured. Until you can do that I'm not really interested. I'm pretty sure you can't because if Cheney had done what you suggest I don't think it would take you this many times of not proving anything to have cleared this up.