Causalty in the Healthcare System

[The Rabbi]

So what is your solution?
If you say gov't at some level needs to provide him, how is that not charity just with a different donor? The only difference is that with traditional charity donors choose to give, with the gov't donors are forced to give.

Yep. As I see it, if someone is not force to give him care, then either he or someone else will not receive care.

I can envision charities that will only donate to educated jews...no need to help the inner city uneducated blacks.

Or maybe vise versa.

What an ignorant piece of shit you are.
Go check out how many private hospitals Jews endowed in the late 19th century. And most of them for inner city types.
It's easy to be generous with other people's money.
Turd.

 

[auditor0007]

Sucks to be your brother in law.

Why he should become a burden on the rest of us is beyond me. And what any of it has to do with healthcare reform is also beyond me. If you think Obama's proposals would help him one bit then you are sorely mistaken.

TRANSLATION: It's too bad that he is going to die, but I'll be damned to pay a penny of my own money to keep his sorry ass alive. Fuck him!

YES!!!!! Now that is more the spirit we're looking for.

 

[The Rabbi]

Sucks to be your brother in law.

Why he should become a burden on the rest of us is beyond me. And what any of it has to do with healthcare reform is also beyond me. If you think Obama's proposals would help him one bit then you are sorely mistaken.

TRANSLATION: It's too bad that he is going to die, but I'll be damned to pay a penny of my own money to keep his sorry ass alive. Fuck him!

YES!!!!! Now that is more the spirit we're looking for.

Hey, bud. PM GHook and ask for an address. I'm sure he'll be happy to accept whatever you want to send him. No one's stopping you.

 

[xotoxi]

What an ignorant piece of shit you are.
Go check out how many private hospitals Jews endowed in the late 19th century. And most of them for inner city types.

GO JEWS!!!

 

[GHook93]

I mentioned my brother-in-law's situation a few times and why our healthcare insurance system blows! He is (was) a small business owner (a failed one that has went under nonetheless). He has MS! Insurers hate it, because its VERY EXPENSIVE, duh! He tried to get insurance via a group plan for his small business a while back, but it was WAY TO EXPENSIVE! Ridiculous expensive! So his wife had to get a job to get them health insurance (bitched about it everyday, but that is another story). She got one and he got insurance.

Two months back they split and she filed for divorce. She dropped him from her insurance (which her employer was all too happy to do - sidenote she was almost let go, because of the burdern covering her husband costs had on her small business employer) immediately. Now he is a very sick person with no insurance. With MS he has trouble getting a job in a normal market, he is having an impossible time in this market!

His doctors won't even see now. He has large medical bills because for 2 months he went for exams and treatment and didn't realize he had no insurance!

With a failed business, bankrupt (yep he had to file), partially disabled with MS (meaning SS disability and medicaid won't cover him - yep he applied), no insurance, no money, shaddled with a mountain of debt and yep homeless (he moved back in with his parents) it would have been nice for him to at least get medical attention so he could possible get someone better and get back on his feet. Not happening!

All In The Family Solution? Not so fast! My inlaw's stated they were going to pay for the insurance (with myself and my wife's sister's family tossing in a little bit), so far he is getting flat out rejected, offered a rider NOT to cover his MS (yep the thing he needs insurance for) or the deductible and premiums are astromically high (basically a way to send us away)!

What are we finding out? HE CAN'T GET INSURANCE UNLESS HE GETS A JOB! But who wants to hire someone who is very sick? Not many! With MS he can't even get a job as a cashier as Safeway, Jewel or Costco!

He is a prime example of WHY a public option is NECESSARY!

Would you care to tell us why he doesn't qualify for the "public option" we already have, namely Medicaid? And then perhaps you can tell us why the entire rest of the nation should be fucked over because his individual personal life happens to suck.

I'm not saying I'm not sympathetic to the fact that his life sucks. I am. However, someone once said - and I agree - that law made on extreme cases is always bad law.

Indeed, GHook93's brother-in-law appears to have plenty of problems in his life, but access to affordable health care is not one of them. He could be receiving the health care he needs at a federally funded clinic right now for free or on a sliding scale basis, one of our already existing public options.

HRSA - Find a Health Center - Search Page

I am pretty sure they are not going to treat MS there, beside I think the biggest expense is the drugs!

 

[GHook93]

Sucks to be your brother in law.

Why he should become a burden on the rest of us is beyond me. And what any of it has to do with healthcare reform is also beyond me. If you think Obama's proposals would help him one bit then you are sorely mistaken.

See where I think the healthcare debate fails and why I make an exception for it is because ITS DIFFERENT FROM ALL OTHER CONSUMER PRODUCTS AND SERVICES!

First, no one honestly chooses to use healthcare. Basically they get SICK or INJURED!
Second, a sickness or esp an injury can put you out of work. If you are out of work you lose you medical insurance. Its crap!
Third, its fundamentally different from every other necessary expense. You car breaks down you can get it fixed and figure out expenses because you can still work. With food and clothes you can budget because you can still work. With medical expenses you don't choose them, they choose you. In most cases you can't say maybe next year, you have to have them now! If one can't see the fundamental difference that healthcare is from all other services then you need to leave the discussion!
Fourth, medical insurance is great for the insurer when your health, but when you are sick or injured it becomes a liability and they do everything to get rid of you: (1) Drop you from their coverage, (2) jack up the rates, (3) put on riders (if your new to the program), (4) Let the employer know that Jerky over their is raising your rates why not fire him or (5) Jerk around with payments and not pay for things!


There are a lot of Spending I disagree with:
(1) Government Pensions - You do know that if the States cut out pension plans (like 99% of private industries have) then most States, even nowadays, would have a balanced budget! Government and schools need to do what private business has done - go to individual retirement instruments like 401(k) plans.
(2) Welfare - it is way to widely used. If your on drugs why should you get it.
(3) The various and meaningless government agencies. There probably 10,000 agencies that could be cut and America wouldn't see any changes.
(4) Pork/Earmarks - It should be illegal!
(5) The War on Drugs - Sorry, but its expense and in my opinion unnecessary.

 

[American Horse]

Would you care to tell us why he doesn't qualify for the "public option" we already have, namely Medicaid? And then perhaps you can tell us why the entire rest of the nation should be fucked over because his individual personal life happens to suck.

I'm not saying I'm not sympathetic to the fact that his life sucks. I am. However, someone once said - and I agree - that law made on extreme cases is always bad law.

Indeed, GHook93's brother-in-law appears to have plenty of problems in his life, but access to affordable health care is not one of them. He could be receiving the health care he needs at a federally funded clinic right now for free or on a sliding scale basis, one of our already existing public options.

HRSA - Find a Health Center - Search Page

I am pretty sure they are not going to treat MS there, beside I think the biggest expense is the drugs!

Once again, insurance is available to him through a state assigned risk group plan. Every state has them and I searched out the one for Illinois and noted it in a post earlier. The rate will be said to be high, but actually it is well within the range of what most of us believe to be normal for health insurance. He cannot be turned down, regardless of what ails him, and all he has to do is be honest when he applies and provides information.

Insurance companies operating in the fifty states are required to accept, on a rotating basis, people with pre-existing conditions, even people with orphan diseases. Orphan diseases are those for which cures and medical treatment are not well understood and may produce symptoms which are dynamic and create the illusion of many other diseases potentially causing treatments lying beyond the actuarial tables, and are difficult for the insurance companies to take the cost of treatment into account.

MS is an ordinary disease, requiring ordinary treatment as compared to some orphan diseases

 

[Cecilie1200]

I mentioned my brother-in-law's situation a few times and why our healthcare insurance system blows! He is (was) a small business owner (a failed one that has went under nonetheless). He has MS! Insurers hate it, because its VERY EXPENSIVE, duh! He tried to get insurance via a group plan for his small business a while back, but it was WAY TO EXPENSIVE! Ridiculous expensive! So his wife had to get a job to get them health insurance (bitched about it everyday, but that is another story). She got one and he got insurance.

Two months back they split and she filed for divorce. She dropped him from her insurance (which her employer was all too happy to do - sidenote she was almost let go, because of the burdern covering her husband costs had on her small business employer) immediately. Now he is a very sick person with no insurance. With MS he has trouble getting a job in a normal market, he is having an impossible time in this market!

His doctors won't even see now. He has large medical bills because for 2 months he went for exams and treatment and didn't realize he had no insurance!

With a failed business, bankrupt (yep he had to file), partially disabled with MS (meaning SS disability and medicaid won't cover him - yep he applied), no insurance, no money, shaddled with a mountain of debt and yep homeless (he moved back in with his parents) it would have been nice for him to at least get medical attention so he could possible get someone better and get back on his feet. Not happening!

All In The Family Solution? Not so fast! My inlaw's stated they were going to pay for the insurance (with myself and my wife's sister's family tossing in a little bit), so far he is getting flat out rejected, offered a rider NOT to cover his MS (yep the thing he needs insurance for) or the deductible and premiums are astromically high (basically a way to send us away)!

What are we finding out? HE CAN'T GET INSURANCE UNLESS HE GETS A JOB! But who wants to hire someone who is very sick? Not many! With MS he can't even get a job as a cashier as Safeway, Jewel or Costco!

He is a prime example of WHY a public option is NECESSARY!

Quit crying about this lazy sleaze bag. He should have been smart enough to not get sick in the first place. Maybe if he wasn't such a terrible husband, his wife wouldn't have divorced him and he'd still have insurance. Either way, it's his own fault. No sympathy here.

Sorry, I just couldn't resist.

Funny, on a sidenote - part of the reason she kicked his butt out is because he has MS. Exact words from her in the past, "When we got married I never signed up for this!" Her response to: (1) going back to work to get healthcare, (2) accommodations around the house, (3) his inability to do many things and (4) just being the wife of someone with MS!

Its a horrible disease that I won't wish on my worse enemy!

Someone should tell that self-centered trollop that when she got married, she DID, in fact, sign on for exactly that. That's why the marriage ceremony contains the phrase "for better OR WORSE, IN SICKNESS and in health".

 

[Cecilie1200]

I mentioned my brother-in-law's situation a few times and why our healthcare insurance system blows! He is (was) a small business owner (a failed one that has went under nonetheless). He has MS! Insurers hate it, because its VERY EXPENSIVE, duh! He tried to get insurance via a group plan for his small business a while back, but it was WAY TO EXPENSIVE! Ridiculous expensive! So his wife had to get a job to get them health insurance (bitched about it everyday, but that is another story). She got one and he got insurance.

Two months back they split and she filed for divorce. She dropped him from her insurance (which her employer was all too happy to do - sidenote she was almost let go, because of the burdern covering her husband costs had on her small business employer) immediately. Now he is a very sick person with no insurance. With MS he has trouble getting a job in a normal market, he is having an impossible time in this market!

His doctors won't even see now. He has large medical bills because for 2 months he went for exams and treatment and didn't realize he had no insurance!

With a failed business, bankrupt (yep he had to file), partially disabled with MS (meaning SS disability and medicaid won't cover him - yep he applied), no insurance, no money, shaddled with a mountain of debt and yep homeless (he moved back in with his parents) it would have been nice for him to at least get medical attention so he could possible get someone better and get back on his feet. Not happening!

All In The Family Solution? Not so fast! My inlaw's stated they were going to pay for the insurance (with myself and my wife's sister's family tossing in a little bit), so far he is getting flat out rejected, offered a rider NOT to cover his MS (yep the thing he needs insurance for) or the deductible and premiums are astromically high (basically a way to send us away)!

What are we finding out? HE CAN'T GET INSURANCE UNLESS HE GETS A JOB! But who wants to hire someone who is very sick? Not many! With MS he can't even get a job as a cashier as Safeway, Jewel or Costco!

He is a prime example of WHY a public option is NECESSARY!

Would you care to tell us why he doesn't qualify for the "public option" we already have, namely Medicaid? And then perhaps you can tell us why the entire rest of the nation should be fucked over because his individual personal life happens to suck.

I'm not saying I'm not sympathetic to the fact that his life sucks. I am. However, someone once said - and I agree - that law made on extreme cases is always bad law.

I'm not sure the whole reason why he doesn't qualify for medicaid, medicare and SS disability. What I do know is he applied and was denied. They stated that he educated (college degree) and is only partially disabled and able to many high paying jobs, such as inside sales!

Which shouldn't stop him from getting Medicaid, and probably Medicare, although it might be a sticking point with SS. However, SS always denies on the first application, in my experience. My mother reached the qualifying age, put in her paperwork, and STILL had to do it a second time.

There are people you can hire who are professional experts on these systems and help you wend your way through the red tape. He might want to look into it and invest in getting some help. He also will want to get a different doctor, because the one who won't see him sounds like a creep. A good doctor and staff would already have advised him on working around the system. I know MY doctor's insurance biller helps me out with it all the time.

 

[Cecilie1200]

ms is horrid disease robbing one daily and slowly of abllites...he needs to try to get a lawyer for the disablity claim...most dont realize he needs to be on the abc shots of ms...and they hit you like a truck...the ability to get out of bed is lost...the disease saps one of their strength. the shots alone run about 800 dollars or more...then the mri's to see how the disease is advancing...the list goes on and on

WE'RE JEWISH, we have a family of lawyers for everything and the challenges is in the process! Yep he is on crazy amount of drugs at the moment.

Well, I'm glad to hear that. Bureaucracy sucks like a giant black hole, but that shouldn't be taken to mean that there aren't systems in place to help people like this, just because it requires some kicking to get it to work.

 

[GHook93]

Quit crying about this lazy sleaze bag. He should have been smart enough to not get sick in the first place. Maybe if he wasn't such a terrible husband, his wife wouldn't have divorced him and he'd still have insurance. Either way, it's his own fault. No sympathy here.

Sorry, I just couldn't resist.

Funny, on a sidenote - part of the reason she kicked his butt out is because he has MS. Exact words from her in the past, "When we got married I never signed up for this!" Her response to: (1) going back to work to get healthcare, (2) accommodations around the house, (3) his inability to do many things and (4) just being the wife of someone with MS!

Its a horrible disease that I won't wish on my worse enemy!

That's wrong!

Too bad the court hadn't found in his favor and forced her to maintain full medical coverage for him as part of the divorce settlement.

He is going through divorce now. Nothing has been settled! But there is no way she will have to pay his medical expenses.

 

[American Horse]

...
With a failed business, bankrupt (yep he had to file), partially disabled with MS (meaning SS disability and medicaid won't cover him - yep he applied), no insurance, no money, shaddled with a mountain of debt and yep homeless (he moved back in with his parents) it would have been nice for him to at least get medical attention so he could possible get someone better and get back on his feet. Not happening!

All In The Family Solution? Not so fast! My inlaw's stated they were going to pay for the insurance (with myself and my wife's sister's family tossing in a little bit), so far he is getting flat out rejected, offered a rider NOT to cover his MS (yep the thing he needs insurance for) or the deductible and premiums are astromically high (basically a way to send us away)!

What are we finding out? HE CAN'T GET INSURANCE UNLESS HE GETS A JOB! But who wants to hire someone who is very sick? Not many! With MS he can't even get a job as a cashier as Safeway, Jewel or Costco!

He is a prime example of WHY a public option is NECESSARY!

Insurance is never contingent on employment, although it helps to be able to pay for something we need to buy.

You pose too many road-blocks, which makes one think that rather than being encouraged, your brother-in-law is actually being discouraged by the mindless blather he is being fed about the hoplessness of the present system, and even perhaps by a great extent by those who should help him who instead are not. Often it seems it's easier to feed the beast of sympathy and hopelessness than to really help someone. That way we can offer sympathy, but not be otherwise inconvenienced, and it proves what we believed all along.

In my own wife's case her health insurance premium with a pre-existing health condition/orphan disease insurance with Mutual of Omaha (2002) had gotten up to $800/month, and she was able to get it down to $320/month by going to the state assigned risk option. She had to quit M of O and get a letter from them that her insurance was no langer in effect, but it was a much better situation. The deductible in both policies was fifteen hundred pa.

 

[strollingbones]

ghook has a valid question in this thread and posters elect to bicker? shows a lot about some of the posters.

the major cost is the drugs...he can go to a pharamacy and ask for help with those costs...the next cost is just the continual testing to see how much the disease has progressed...then the daily living expenses with little or no income coming in. what many dont realize is the disease and the shots cause one to need a tremondous amount of sleep...an ms patient can sleep 16 or more hours a day...giving them the appearance of being "lazy" they are not. its their body and brains response to the damage...the brian is trying to repair itself and does this while the body sleeps. the disease causing the lining of nerve endings to go...this disrupts the central nervous system

i dont think anyone is even close to understanding the disease much less achieving a cure

 

[judyd]

I mentioned my brother-in-law's situation a few times and why our healthcare insurance system blows! He is (was) a small business owner (a failed one that has went under nonetheless). He has MS! Insurers hate it, because its VERY EXPENSIVE, duh! He tried to get insurance via a group plan for his small business a while back, but it was WAY TO EXPENSIVE! Ridiculous expensive! So his wife had to get a job to get them health insurance (bitched about it everyday, but that is another story). She got one and he got insurance.

Two months back they split and she filed for divorce. She dropped him from her insurance (which her employer was all too happy to do - sidenote she was almost let go, because of the burdern covering her husband costs had on her small business employer) immediately. Now he is a very sick person with no insurance. With MS he has trouble getting a job in a normal market, he is having an impossible time in this market!

His doctors won't even see now. He has large medical bills because for 2 months he went for exams and treatment and didn't realize he had no insurance!

With a failed business, bankrupt (yep he had to file), partially disabled with MS (meaning SS disability and medicaid won't cover him - yep he applied), no insurance, no money, shaddled with a mountain of debt and yep homeless (he moved back in with his parents) it would have been nice for him to at least get medical attention so he could possible get someone better and get back on his feet. Not happening!

All In The Family Solution? Not so fast! My inlaw's stated they were going to pay for the insurance (with myself and my wife's sister's family tossing in a little bit), so far he is getting flat out rejected, offered a rider NOT to cover his MS (yep the thing he needs insurance for) or the deductible and premiums are astromically high (basically a way to send us away)!

What are we finding out? HE CAN'T GET INSURANCE UNLESS HE GETS A JOB! But who wants to hire someone who is very sick? Not many! With MS he can't even get a job as a cashier as Safeway, Jewel or Costco!

He is a prime example of WHY a public option is NECESSARY!

Quit crying about this lazy sleaze bag. He should have been smart enough to not get sick in the first place. Maybe if he wasn't such a terrible husband, his wife wouldn't have divorced him and he'd still have insurance. Either way, it's his own fault. No sympathy here.

Sorry, I just couldn't resist.

Funny, on a sidenote - part of the reason she kicked his butt out is because he has MS. Exact words from her in the past, "When we got married I never signed up for this!" Her response to: (1) going back to work to get healthcare, (2) accommodations around the house, (3) his inability to do many things and (4) just being the wife of someone with MS!

Its a horrible disease that I won't wish on my worse enemy!

I worked with a guy in a similar situation, although the last I saw him, his wife hadn't left. I do remember that the medication he had to take (self-injections) would make him really wacky and "up", and he would be really loud and almost out of control--not always in a bad way, he could be very funny, too, but really out of control! His wife doesn't work, so it's been up to him to stay as well as he can and hope the company doesn't completely go out of business.

MS is a horrible disease, you don't know what you're going to be like when you wake up each morning.

He should keep applying for SSI. They always reject your first application. He would be wise to get an attorney for this, as they will reimburse him for attorney fees.