Catholic Church: Sex only for procreation

[Yurt]

it has come to my attention that the catholic church believes and essentially commands that sex is only for procreation.

what is your understanding of this. especially if you are catholic. because from what I've read, catholicism teaches sex is for both procreation and unity or pleasure and they do not have to both be at the same time. IOW, you can have sex for pleasure and not just to procreate.

 

[Yurt]

here are the two comments:

the view of the church that sex is suppose to be only for procreation

The church however teaches that people should not have sex unless it's for only procreation

this is not a flame thread, rather i would like to see more of the board's opinion on this matter.

 

[Modbert]

it has come to my attention that the catholic church believes and essentially commands that sex is only for procreation.

what is your understanding of this. especially if you are catholic. because from what I've read, catholicism teaches sex is for both procreation and unity or pleasure and they do not have to both be at the same time. IOW, you can have sex for pleasure and not just to procreate.

I'm not going to rehash three pages of what just went on in the other thread. This is the Church's view on sex and procreation. It doesn't mean I agree with it, that's it right, or that the bible even agrees with it. This is the modern day 2010 Catholic Church's stance.

Religious views on masturbation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Catholic Church teaches that the deliberate use of the sexual faculty outside of marriage is essentially contrary to its primary purpose of procreation and secondary purpose of unification of the husband and wife within the sacrament of marriage.[2] In addition, the Church teaches that all other sexual activity—including masturbation, homosexual acts, acts of sodomy, and sex outside of or before marriage (fornication), and the use of any form of contraception or birth control— is gravely disordered, as it frustrates the natural order, purpose, and ends of sexuality.[3]

Catholic Answers: This Rock: Quick Questions: Procreation

Q: Are marital relations not supposed to pleasurable because they are only for reproductive purposes?

A: The primary purposes of marital relations are procreation and spousal unity (babies and bonding), but that does not mean that the husband and wife are not supposed to derive pleasure from their marital relations. Although pleasure is not a purpose of sex, it is important to fulfilling the purposes of sex.

God gave humans the capacity to enjoy food and sex in order to encourage them to fulfill the purposes of those human needs. A moral problem occurs only when deriving pleasure from food and sex is put above or in the place of its intended purpose. Someone who eats solely for pleasure, without regard for the needs of his body, abuses the privilege of eating. In the same way, someone who has sex solely for pleasure, without regard for its intended purposes of babies and bonding, abuses the privilege of sex.

 

[Samson]

has a website, ya know.

Seach "sex"

Result:

Ad perpetuam rei memoriam. — Sex amplius saecula ecclesia paroecialis Sanctae Valburgis, quae in urbe «Arnhem» posita finibus archidioecesis Ultraiectensis continetur, Christifidelium animos ad se convertit, peregrinatorum turmas ad se allicit atque efficit, ut spirituales fructus ibi percipiantur nec pauci nec leves. Non est quin comprobet architecturam, imagines ceteraque ornamenta, imprimis autem serinium, in quo reliquiae Sanctae Caelitis conditae sunt, admirationem habet pietatemque fovet.

I hope this helps.

 

[Yurt]

not meant as a rehash, but thanks for putting forth what you believe supports your assertions...i note that you do not bold that portions that go against your claims...

for example you did not bold the first part:

A: The primary purposes of marital relations are procreation and spousal unity (babies and bonding), but that does not mean that the husband and wife are not supposed to derive pleasure from their marital relations. Although pleasure is not a purpose of sex, it is important to fulfilling the purposes of sex.

to me, that clearly says there are two purposes for sex or marital relations...1. babies, 2. unity or bonding....i do not see anywhere where it says the bonding must accompany making babies, it says there are two purproses and it never says they must always be at the same time....

i found this from the vatican which does not support your assertion:

III. THE LOVE OF HUSBAND AND WIFE

2360 Sexuality is ordered to the conjugal love of man and woman. In marriage the physical intimacy of the spouses becomes a sign and pledge of spiritual communion. Marriage bonds between baptized persons are sanctified by the sacrament.

2361 "Sexuality, by means of which man and woman give themselves to one another through the acts which are proper and exclusive to spouses, is not something simply biological, but concerns the innermost being of the human person as such. It is realized in a truly human way only if it is an integral part of the love by which a man and woman commit themselves totally to one another until death."143


2362 "The acts in marriage by which the intimate and chaste union of the spouses takes place are noble and honorable; the truly human performance of these acts fosters the self-giving they signify and enriches the spouses in joy and gratitude."145 Sexuality is a source of joy and pleasure:


The Creator himself . . . established that in the [generative] function, spouses should experience pleasure and enjoyment of body and spirit. Therefore, the spouses do nothing evil in seeking this pleasure and enjoyment. They accept what the Creator has intended for them. At the same time, spouses should know how to keep themselves within the limits of just moderation.146
2363 The spouses' union achieves the twofold end of marriage: the good of the spouses themselves and the transmission of life. These two meanings or values of marriage cannot be separated without altering the couple's spiritual life and compromising the goods of marriage and the future of the family.

Catechism of the Catholic Church - The sixth commandment

the above says it is not simply biological, it is also about pleasure and it clearly states that sex has a two fold purpose 1. good of the spouses themselves and 2. biological, life

 

[Yurt]

further....it is clear the church approves of natural birth "regulation" (read control)


2370 Periodic continence, that is, the methods of birth regulation based on self-observation and the use of infertile periods, is in conformity with the objective criteria of morality.158

same link above and it is clear that one can have sex during times when the woman cannot conceive

 

[chanel]

Yurt - I am Catholic and we were required to attend several weeks of "pre Cana" before we were married - essentially marriage counseling. With a wink and a nod they discussed birth control. Most of the couples in our class were in their 20s and 30s and prob not a virgin amongst us. Catholicism is a very complicated religion with a book of rules the size of the US Tax code. People pick and choose those they agree with. I am pro choice as is my mother, sister in laws and Republican Catholic girlfriends. That's enough to make the Vatican, the GOP, and rdean's head explode. Lol

 

[Ravi]

Catholics are uptight...and yes, the purpose of sex to Catholicism is procreation.

Otherwise birth control would be okay.

 

[Yurt]

Catholics are uptight...and yes, the purpose of sex to Catholicism is procreation.

Otherwise birth control would be okay.

2370 Periodic continence, that is, the methods of birth regulation based on self-observation and the use of infertile periods, is in conformity with the objective criteria of morality.158

Catechism of the Catholic Church - The sixth commandment

what say you to that ravi? seems to me that it says natural regulation or control is just fine, IOW, you can have sex when the woman cannot conceive.

 

[Yurt]

Yurt - I am Catholic and we were required to attend several weeks of "pre Cana" before we were married - essentially marriage counseling. With a wink and a nod they discussed birth control. Most of the couples in our class were in their 20s and 30s and prob not a virgin amongst us. Catholicism is a very complicated religion with a book of rules the size of the US Tax code. People pick and choose those they agree with. I am pro choice as is my mother, sister in laws and Republican Catholic girlfriends. That's enough to make the Vatican, the GOP, and rdean's head explode. Lol

thanks for your reply. is the above catechism i posted valid?

 

[eagleseven]

Anyone who was raised Catholic can tell you that masturbation, oral sex, and using artificial birth control are sins.

2370 Periodic continence, that is, the methods of birth regulation based on self-observation and the use of infertile periods, is in conformity with the objective criteria of morality.158

...the rhythm method is the #1 way to have unplanned pregnancies, as half of my Catholic relatives can tell you. But it keeps the family large, and the Church growing!

---

You may not realize that the Catechism of the Catholic Church is longer than the Bible.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U0kJHQpvgB8"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U0kJHQpvgB8[/ame]

 

[Yurt]

no doubt, it is that way for non catholics as well...

so, is it true that the church says you can only have sex if it is for procreation? the way that reads is that you can engage in sex when it is not about procreation and your anecdotal evidence suggest many other catholics believe this to be true as well....

 

[Oscar Wao]

Catholics are against everything...why is this a surprise?

Sheesh, even when you've said your "I dos" in front of God and the congregation and made a promise to be together forever, there's STILL rules!

Guess the RCC ripped out the Song of Songs from their Bibles.

 

[jillian]

it has come to my attention that the catholic church believes and essentially commands that sex is only for procreation.

what is your understanding of this. especially if you are catholic. because from what I've read, catholicism teaches sex is for both procreation and unity or pleasure and they do not have to both be at the same time. IOW, you can have sex for pleasure and not just to procreate.

if that were true, wouldn't they be allowed to use contraception?

 

[elvis]

Sex only for procreation? They may want to tell their priests that.

 

[Yurt]

it has come to my attention that the catholic church believes and essentially commands that sex is only for procreation.

what is your understanding of this. especially if you are catholic. because from what I've read, catholicism teaches sex is for both procreation and unity or pleasure and they do not have to both be at the same time. IOW, you can have sex for pleasure and not just to procreate.

if that were true, wouldn't they be allowed to use contraception?

seems so...however...if you read the catechism, it makes a distinction....that is from the vatican website...here is the full text of that section:

2370 Periodic continence, that is, the methods of birth regulation based on self-observation and the use of infertile periods, is in conformity with the objective criteria of morality.158 These methods respect the bodies of the spouses, encourage tenderness between them, and favor the education of an authentic freedom. In contrast, "every action which, whether in anticipation of the conjugal act, or in its accomplishment, or in the development of its natural consequences, proposes, whether as an end or as a means, to render procreation impossible" is intrinsically evil:159


Thus the innate language that expresses the total reciprocal self-giving of husband and wife is overlaid, through contraception, by an objectively contradictory language, namely, that of not giving oneself totally to the other. This leads not only to a positive refusal to be open to life but also to a falsification of the inner truth of conjugal love, which is called upon to give itself in personal totality. . . . The difference, both anthropological and moral, between contraception and recourse to the rhythm of the cycle . . . involves in the final analysis two irreconcilable concepts of the human person and of human sexuality.160

the distinction is that the natural method still allows for the "possibility" of life, whereas man made contraception does not

it doesn't make that much sense to me....but that is the catholic ruling on sex, you can have sex not for procreation, so long as it is natural "regulation"...they even give footnotes to support their belief

 

[eagleseven]

so, is it true that the church says you can only have sex if it is for procreation? the way that reads is that you can engage in sex when it is not about procreation and your anecdotal evidence suggest many other catholics believe this to be true as well....

Dogma states that every time you have sex, you must be open to the possibility of conception.

The rhythm method is considered acceptable because you are not modifying the body, nor modifying the sexual activity itself, in order to prevent conception. You are not preventing God from creating life, if he so wishes.

You may think it is splitting hairs, but for many Catholics, artificial birth control is a human attempt to control God, as God is the one who chooses to create life.

 

[Yurt]

so, is it true that the church says you can only have sex if it is for procreation? the way that reads is that you can engage in sex when it is not about procreation and your anecdotal evidence suggest many other catholics believe this to be true as well....

Dogma states that every time you have sex, you must be open to the possibility of conception.

The rhythm method is considered acceptable because you are not modifying the body, nor modifying the sexual activity itself, in order to prevent conception. You are not preventing God from creating life, if he so wishes.

You may think it is splitting hairs, but for many Catholics, artificial birth control is a human attempt to control God, as God is the one who chooses to create life.

i don't usually go into the splitting hair thing when it comes to dogma or other people's faith. it is their faith. it doesn't make sense to me, but then again, it doesn't have to unless i want to believe their way.

nevertheless, it appears that catholics are allowed to have sex and to just have pleasure or unity sex without the need to procreate....just that it could happen, but you do not have to have sex only to procreate

thank you and that is how i read the catechism in the post above yours

 

[Modbert]

The logic here is quite simple.

If sex was not only about procreation in the church, they would allow condoms and birth control. They would also allow masturbation. However, they do not. While one can take pleasure from sex, they have to keep in mind the main objective which is to have kids.

There's no way to logically state that the Catholic Church supports sex outside of attempting to have kids, and then say they're against aids that help you not have kids after sex.

 

[cad]

if more people actually followed the views of the church, who would be harmed?

i don't think that anyone here is for 13, 14 15 year old's having sex.
how many people's lives have been forever altered/changed/ruined because they DIDN'T have sex at an early age? now how many lives have been "ruined" because they did?
how many women would not have to make the (what i am hoping is a difficult) decision to have an abortion if they only had sex with their husband?