Catalans prepare to defy Madrid in banned independence vote

[Disir]

BARCELONA (Reuters) - Tens of thousands of Catalans are expected to defy Spanish authorities and attempt to vote in a banned independence referendum on Sunday, raising fears of unrest in the wealthy northeastern region.

The referendum, declared illegal by Spain’s central government, has thrown the country into its worst constitutional crisis in decades and raised fears of street violence as a test of will between Madrid and Barcelona plays out.

In a sign of how the planned vote has polarized the country, thousands of pro-unity demonstrators gathered in Spain’s major cities, including Barcelona, to express their fierce opposition to Catalonia’s attempt to break away.
Catalans prepare to defy Madrid in banned independence vote

It ain't gonna happen.

 

[anotherlife]

BARCELONA (Reuters) - Tens of thousands of Catalans are expected to defy Spanish authorities and attempt to vote in a banned independence referendum on Sunday, raising fears of unrest in the wealthy northeastern region.

The referendum, declared illegal by Spain’s central government, has thrown the country into its worst constitutional crisis in decades and raised fears of street violence as a test of will between Madrid and Barcelona plays out.

In a sign of how the planned vote has polarized the country, thousands of pro-unity demonstrators gathered in Spain’s major cities, including Barcelona, to express their fierce opposition to Catalonia’s attempt to break away.
Catalans prepare to defy Madrid in banned independence vote

It ain't gonna happen.

So, what are the rules? I think international law allows all kinds of independence declarations. If the referendum happens to succeed, then will the new Catalan state be recognized internationally only upon Madrid's approvals? If yes, then I smell a civil war.

 

[xotoxi]

Barthalona.

 

[Bleipriester]

Democracy news:

Hundreds of voters bludgeoned by regime.

 

[anotherlife]

Democracy news:

Hundreds of voters bludgeoned by regime.

Do you have a link to a picture? This is interesting.

 

[mdk]

Democracy news:

Hundreds of voters bludgeoned by regime.

Do you have a link to a picture? This is interesting.

It's getting ugly.

Catalan independence referendum descends into chaos - CNN

 

[Bleipriester]

Democracy news:

Hundreds of voters bludgeoned by regime.

Do you have a link to a picture? This is interesting.

Watch the regime bludgeoning people:

Whether the referendum is constitutional or not, this is not the proper response. In Venezuela, the opposition can make its own referendums without the state intervening at all.

 

[Bleipriester]

 

[Toro]

The central government in Madrid acted stupidly on this.

 

[anotherlife]

The central government in Madrid acted stupidly on this.

Not all that stupid I think, because this way they can invalidate it.

 

[Marion Morrison]

So, will they want to join the EU or no?

 

[onaquest]

So, will they want to join the EU or no?

i'd imagine that an independent Catalan would like to join the EU but i remember during the Scottish independence referendum that talk of joining the EU as a independent country would require the unanimous approval of all members. with sizeable independence movements in Italy, France and Spain i doubt that this would happen or at the least allow the Catalan application to dwell in limbo for a long time.

 

[Two Thumbs]

Why would any country want to force people to stay part of their country?


Seems like not everyone wants to be part of Spain's socialist utopia.

 

[anotherlife]

Why would any country want to force people to stay part of their country?


Seems like not everyone wants to be part of Spain's socialist utopia.

Tax empire, I guess. Also possibly land is central government capital. I don't know though, because most European countries have functioning economies only in their capital city and maybe one other city, never on the land.

 

[waltky]

Granny says, "Dat's right - if at first ya don't secede, do it over again...

Polls Open: Catalans Head to Polls in Independence Vote
December 21, 2017 — Catalonia holds a regional election Thursday that the Spanish government hopes will strip pro-independence parties of their control of the Catalan parliament and end their campaign to force a split with Spain.

Voting began at 9 a.m. Thursday and the nearly 2,700 polling stations will remain open until 8 p.m. (1900 GMT). But, though final polls showed separatist and unionist parties running neck-and-neck, an effective pro-independence majority remains a likely outcome that would jolt financial markets and cast a long shadow over national politics. With a record turnout expected, the more than one-fifth who are undecided among the 5.5 million eligible voters could shift the election outcome. Spanish Prime Minister Mariano Rajoy called the Dec. 21 vote in October in the hopes of returning Catalonia to “normality” under a unionist government. He sacked its previous government for holding a banned referendum and declaring independence.

People buy items at a stall street in Barcelona, Spain, Monday, Dec. 18, 2017. Jittery businessmen in Catalonia have put their investment plans on ice as they brace for the region's parliamentary election​

Economy

A new separatist majority would further dampen investors’ confidence in Catalonia, which by itself has an economy larger than that of Portugal and is the main driver of Spain’s economic growth. However, pro-independence leaders recently have backed away from demands for unilateral secession. The independence campaign pitched Spain into its worst political turmoil since the collapse of fascist rule and return of democracy in the 1970s. It has polarized public opinion, dented Spain’s economic rebound and prompted a business exodus from Catalonia to other parts of the country. Thursday’s vote became a de facto referendum on how support for the independence movement has fared in recent months.

A woman stands near a Spanish flag in Plaza Colon (Columbus Square) on the eve of regional elections in Catalonia in Madrid​

No clear majority

None of the six parties in the Catalan parliament — ranging across the ideological spectrum from separatist Marxists to the Catalan wing of Rajoy’s conservative People’s Party (PP) — are expected on their own to come close to the 68-seat majority. So, analysts expect the next Catalan government to result from weeks of haggling between parties over viable coalitions. An analysis of polling data by the Madrid daily El Pais published on Tuesday found that the most likely scenario is separatists securing a majority with the backing or abstention of the Catalan offshoot of anti-austerity party Podemos. Podemos backs the unity of Spain but says Catalans should be able to have a referendum authorized by Madrid to decide their future. At the same time, Podemos favors a left-wing alliance of Catalan parties that both back and reject independence.

Ousted Catalan leader Carles Puigdemont addresses Catalan mayors who traveled to Brussels in support of the ousted Catalan government in Brussels, Belgium​

In this, analysts say, Podemos is caught between two options it does not particularly like, but would prefer to back the separatists rather than a coalition involving Rajoy’s PP. Separatist parties campaigned against the backdrop of Spanish courts investigating their leaders on allegations of rebellion for their roles in the Oct. 1 referendum, which was ruled unconstitutional. Deposed Catalan President Carles Puigdemont has campaigned from self-imposed exile in Brussels and his former deputy and now rival candidate, Oriol Junqueras, has done so from behind bars at a prison outside Madrid. In a written interview with Reuters published on Monday, Junqueras struck a conciliatory tone and opened the door to building bridges with the Spanish state.

Polls Open: Catalans Head to Polls in Independence Vote

 

[Political Junky]

A huge turnout in Barcelona.

 

[Esmeralda]

BARCELONA (Reuters) - Tens of thousands of Catalans are expected to defy Spanish authorities and attempt to vote in a banned independence referendum on Sunday, raising fears of unrest in the wealthy northeastern region.

The referendum, declared illegal by Spain’s central government, has thrown the country into its worst constitutional crisis in decades and raised fears of street violence as a test of will between Madrid and Barcelona plays out.

In a sign of how the planned vote has polarized the country, thousands of pro-unity demonstrators gathered in Spain’s major cities, including Barcelona, to express their fierce opposition to Catalonia’s attempt to break away.
Catalans prepare to defy Madrid in banned independence vote

It ain't gonna happen.

So, what are the rules? I think international law allows all kinds of independence declarations. If the referendum happens to succeed, then will the new Catalan state be recognized internationally only upon Madrid's approvals? If yes, then I smell a civil war.

They won't be able to join the EU because it only takes one member state voting against any new state joining, and, of course, Spain will vote against it. So they will be a very tiny entity trying to make it on their own. They will not have UN support or any military support. It's just a very stupid idea and less than half of the residents there actually support succession.

There won't be civil war, but the Spanish government may need to delcare martial law there. It will remain Spanish. It's a very tiny region with no military or anything like that and no outside country is going to jump in and help them because they really have nothing to complain about.

In Catalonia's referendum votes, only 42-43% of registers voters turned out. Obviously most of the people have not taken this very seriously. Becoming an independant state is very serious; if it really comes down to a real vote, the majority of Catalonians do not want to separate from Spain. This is a movement by zealots.

Also, Catalonia owes the Spanish central government $62 billion in debt. Their need for independance is about economics, food, language, and football. Seriously: cuisine and football? They are not oppressed. Most of the people there probably don't even speak Catalonian anymore and don't want to.

 

[anotherlife]

BARCELONA (Reuters) - Tens of thousands of Catalans are expected to defy Spanish authorities and attempt to vote in a banned independence referendum on Sunday, raising fears of unrest in the wealthy northeastern region.

The referendum, declared illegal by Spain’s central government, has thrown the country into its worst constitutional crisis in decades and raised fears of street violence as a test of will between Madrid and Barcelona plays out.

In a sign of how the planned vote has polarized the country, thousands of pro-unity demonstrators gathered in Spain’s major cities, including Barcelona, to express their fierce opposition to Catalonia’s attempt to break away.
Catalans prepare to defy Madrid in banned independence vote

It ain't gonna happen.

So, what are the rules? I think international law allows all kinds of independence declarations. If the referendum happens to succeed, then will the new Catalan state be recognized internationally only upon Madrid's approvals? If yes, then I smell a civil war.

They won't be able to join the EU because it only takes one member state voting against any new state joining, and, of course, Spain will vote against it. So they will be a very tiny entity trying to make it on their own. They will not have UN support or any military support. It's just a very stupid idea and less than half of the residents there actually support succession.

There won't be civil war, but the Spanish government may need to delcare martial law there. It will remain Spanish. It's a very tiny region with no military or anything like that and no outside country is going to jump in and help them because they really have nothing to complain about.

In Catalonia's referendum votes, only 42-43% of registers voters turned out. Obviously most of the people have not taken this very seriously. Becoming an independant state is very serious; if it really comes down to a real vote, the majority of Catalonians do not want to separate from Spain. This is a movement by zealots.

Also, Catalonia owes the Spanish central government $62 billion in debt. Their need for independance is about economics, food, language, and football. Seriously: cuisine and football? They are not oppressed. Most of the people there probably don't even speak Catalonian anymore and don't want to.

So, at best, looks like they could have plaid the Monaco gig, if Monaco allows second fiddlers. The Catalonia referendum fate is scary though, because it also proves, that if a nation state annexes a smaller independent land, then the whole world order is in strong support for the nation state aggressor as opposed to the small independent land. This is building a hive society and hive mind.

 

[Political Junky]

30% 0f the votes are and show secessionists on track for majority.

 

[anotherlife]

30% 0f the votes are and show secessionists on track for majority.

I think that the highest risk of any secession is the setting up a banking system and initiating general trade relationships. Trading blocks usually oppose these things, because they themselves are created fir exclusivity.

If these are not firmly established and negotiated before secession, then no matter how much street violence, war, and demonstration they do, they will not gain independence.