Canada Takes The Lead

Discussion in 'Education' started by PoliticalChic, Jun 25, 2010.

  1. PoliticalChic
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    PoliticalChic Diamond Member

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    How much control should the government have in determining a child's education?


    The Inquisition makes a good match for the Quebec Ministry of Education.

    1. "Who gets to decide what kind of religious and moral instruction children receive in school? Parents or the state? Quebec says it’s the state. But late last week, a Quebec Superior Court judge delivered a powerful blow for the opposite side of the argument.

    2. Catholic high school located in Montreal. Loyola had requested an exemption from a provincially mandated ethics and morality course — Éthique et Culture Religieuse (ECR) — on the grounds that it provides its students with an equivalent program, albeit one imbued with the school’s Jesuit pedagogical principles. On June 18, Justice Gérard Dugré found that the government’s decision to refuse Loyola’s request was invalid because the refusal was based on the assumption that a confessional program could not accomplish the goals of ECR.

    3. The decision will be greeted with jubilation by a number of grass-roots groups, ranging in motivation from religious conservatism to home-schooling libertarianism to atheistic nationalism. And rightly so.

    4. The course is supposedly benign, a means of exposing children to a panoply of belief systems by inculcating in them “absolute respect for every religious position.” But according to ECR materials, “every religious position” includes pagan animism, witchcraft (“Wiccans are women like any other in daily life”) and even the nutbar Raelian movement. In one of the high school workbooks, Catholicism is allotted 12 pages, feminism 27 pages.

    5. Religious activists opposed to the program see it as a blatant case of social engineering, a statist indoctrination of children into the ideology of moral relativism. Their quite reasonable fear is that the course will convince impressionable children that no religion is unique or has any superior moral insight to offer or is worthy of special reverence.

    6. “The program is predicated on the worst possible educational model for young children: the philosopher Hegel’s ‘pedagogy of conflict.’

    7. In his 63-page decision, Judge Dugré issued a surprisingly aggressive and even humiliating rebuke to the Ministry of Education: “The obligation imposed on Loyola to teach the ethics and religious culture course in a lay fashion assumes a totalitarian character essentially equivalent to Galileo’s being ordered by the Inquisition to deny the Copernican universe.”
     
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  2. IanC
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    IanC Gold Member

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    Canada is in love with the concept of multiculturalism. Of course the price we pay for it is not as high as the US. Most of our immigrants are high IQ and we don't have a poreous border with hordes of people trying to break in.
     
  3. Toro
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    Toro Diamond Member

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    Religion is a nonfactor in Canada. Maybe 10%-20% of the people go to church. Nobody really cares.
     
  4. IanC
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    IanC Gold Member

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    Actually the Catholic HSs care. You don't have to be catholic to go to them but you do have to repect their beliefs. That's why those schools have students more prepared for the real world.
     
  5. PoliticalChic
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    PoliticalChic Diamond Member

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    There must be other factors as well, as these schools do far better than public schools in NYC as well....I don't believe it is the religious nature of the institutions.
     
  6. PoliticalChic
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    PoliticalChic Diamond Member

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    The import of the OP is that the political structure of Canada is designed to impost exactly that thinking.

    Chicken or the egg?
     
  7. IanC
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    IanC Gold Member

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    Cath schools try to impart thatthere really are morals standards, that there are consequences for transgressions, that being helpful and productive and involved is an important part of being a person. Thatthere really is good and evil in the world and it is a personal responsibility to choose. Non negotiable standards.

    Not just a hodge podge of everybody, everything is equal in all ways.
     
  8. Toro
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    Toro Diamond Member

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    When I grew up in Saskatchewan, there was no difference in performance between kids in the Catholic school system and the kids in the public school system. The only difference was that once a week, you had to take a religious class, which often times wasn't even religious.

    Talking to friends and in-laws who are now teachers in Saskatchewan, I hear of no noticeable difference.
     
  9. Toro
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    No, I don't think so. People just aren't religious in Canada for the same reason why people aren't religious in Europe - they just don't care and don't see a reason for religion. It doesn't have anything to do with the state. I'd say that the state was a reflection of the people's will.

    The most Catholic province is Quebec and they are probably the least religious, and that is an outgrowth of the Duplessis regime in the province which was highly corrupt and tied to the Catholic Church.

    I sat on a province-wide committee in university that recommended to the education minister on future curriculum in the public schools. We never discussed religion. It never occurred to us. It wasn't part of the school.

    I will say this, despite going to a public school, we did say the Lord's prayer at least once a week, and we did read bible stories up to grade four. There is no separation of church and state in the Canadian constitution.
     
  10. PoliticalChic
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    Very well put...and astute.

    Far more succinctly than I, you have named elements that are the very antithesis of the progressive vision.
     

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