Can you be a "non-Christian" and still go to heaven?

[Meriweather]

OK, it isn't just that people are bored. It is that I was bored. The messages were uninspiring. The whole occasion was uninspiring. It just was. When I stopped going to church, I did not find a hole in my life.

I would much rather go for a hike in the mountains than go to church, any day. I decided I would not go to church just for the sake of going.

Boredom, mostly, is a choice. Exceptions exist and my college philosophy class was a classic example. No matter how hard I tried...it was horrible. The book was interesting, but that could not be proven in class. Over the course of a year, there is a small handful of times I get zilch from church. Nada. Half the time the problem is me--just not interested, whatever the reason. I don't have mountains around me, but I do have hills, so I get what you are saying there. Only for me it is not either/or--it's both, at least once a week, more if I can break away.

Church is meant to be a personal experience between us and God. It is also meant to be a community experience where we support each other--even when we don't know most or what is going on in their lives. Church is a place where we have each other and our faith in common. Some things we do so we don't drift away from them, but I agree going only for the sake of going is of little value.

 

[Bonzi]

Why might any non-Christian have any interest in going to Cloud Cuckoo Land....or even whether there might be some such place?

a non Christian would HATE heaven
after being in hell they might find it preferable, but, who knows....

Why, do they serve that stale ass bread and cheap wine?

I doubt you get anything to eat in hell - likely have to eat the vomit of the demons

 

[Trump.Stamped]

Why might any non-Christian have any interest in going to Cloud Cuckoo Land....or even whether there might be some such place?

a non Christian would HATE heaven
after being in hell they might find it preferable, but, who knows....

Why, do they serve that stale ass bread and cheap wine?

I doubt you get anything to eat in hell - likely have to eat the vomit of the demons

I was talking about heaven, but now that you mention it I bet there is SPAM in hell.

 

[Bonzi]

Why might any non-Christian have any interest in going to Cloud Cuckoo Land....or even whether there might be some such place?

a non Christian would HATE heaven
after being in hell they might find it preferable, but, who knows....

Why, do they serve that stale ass bread and cheap wine?

I doubt you get anything to eat in hell - likely have to eat the vomit of the demons

I was talking about heaven, but now that you mention it I bet there is SPAM in hell.

Well in heaven everything would be top of the line.
We will all found out one day.... unless we just die

 

[Luddly Neddite]

Why might any non-Christian have any interest in going to Cloud Cuckoo Land....or even whether there might be some such place?

a non Christian would HATE heaven
after being in hell they might find it preferable, but, who knows....

If one is not "christian", there is no heaven.

But, if there were, no "non-christian" would want to spend eternity in the company of all that preaching and thumping.

 

[Bonzi]

Heaven would be people happily living and praising their creator.
People that don't believe in God or that he came to earth in bodily form to die for their sins, well that's the doctrine.

Many do not believe it - most don't.

 

[BreezeWood]

Can you be a "non-Christian" and still go to heaven?

So, my question is, what is better? Someone who lives a moral life without Church, or someone who is a terrible person but goes to church on a regular basis?

are the two connected; and ... without Church - goes to church ?


Remission is to the Everlasting and is secular - Heaven is the residence of the Almighty, a place unattended by a novice ...

.

 

[Weatherman2020]

Nope. That was the Garden Of Eden.

Heaven is not on Earth.

So where is heaven?

You can detect 4 dimensions. Yet there are several dozen more you cannot see or feel. But they exist.

First of all, the extra dimensions are still a theory, like your god. And secondly, I'm agnostic, I see no proof either way for or against the possibility of their being a god, and if anyone ever puts forth proof either way, I'm open to changing my mind. It's the only rational position to have.

Yes, many dimensions are just theory, like God is and gravity is.
Everything in the universe is math, from a Higgs Boson to a spiral galaxy. Do you know what Fibonacci numbers are? If not, look it up. Everything has them. Everything.

Tell me, using your rationale position, what law in physics says chaos evolves into order?

Gravity isn't a theory you fucking retard.
And is there a point to your math deflections?

The word "law" describes an analytic statement. It gives us a formula that tells us what things will do. For example, Newton's Law of Universal Gravitation tells us that "Every point mass attracts every single point mass by a force pointing along the line intersecting both points. The force is directly proportional to the product of the two masses and inversely proportional to the square of the distance between the point masses." That formula will let us calculate the gravitational pull between the Earth and the object you dropped, between the Sun and Mars, or between me and a bowl of ice cream.

But we have no idea why.

The law of gravity that describes the attraction between two objects.
The theory of gravity that describes why the objects attract each other.

As far as the Fibonacci numbers and their appearance in everything in the universe, to many scientists it points to the existence of a Creator.

But obviously all of this is above your education and comprehension level, so never mind.

 

[guno]

So where is heaven?

You can detect 4 dimensions. Yet there are several dozen more you cannot see or feel. But they exist.

First of all, the extra dimensions are still a theory, like your god. And secondly, I'm agnostic, I see no proof either way for or against the possibility of their being a god, and if anyone ever puts forth proof either way, I'm open to changing my mind. It's the only rational position to have.

Yes, many dimensions are just theory, like God is and gravity is.
Everything in the universe is math, from a Higgs Boson to a spiral galaxy. Do you know what Fibonacci numbers are? If not, look it up. Everything has them. Everything.

Tell me, using your rationale position, what law in physics says chaos evolves into order?

Gravity isn't a theory you fucking retard.
And is there a point to your math deflections?

The word "law" describes an analytic statement. It gives us a formula that tells us what things will do. For example, Newton's Law of Universal Gravitation tells us that "Every point mass attracts every single point mass by a force pointing along the line intersecting both points. The force is directly proportional to the product of the two masses and inversely proportional to the square of the distance between the point masses." That formula will let us calculate the gravitational pull between the Earth and the object you dropped, between the Sun and Mars, or between me and a bowl of ice cream.

But we have no idea why.

The law of gravity that describes the attraction between two objects.
The theory of gravity that describes why the objects attract each other.

As far as the Fibonacci numbers and their appearance in everything in the universe, to many scientists it points to the existence of a Creator.

But obviously all of this is above your education and comprehension level, so never mind.

you are getting very close to going at your age, post back how it is

 

[frigidweirdo]

Well, talking to yourself is one of the 10,000 first signs of madness, right?

Yep, you proved it. Your only knee jerk response is discounting what hundreds of millions of us have done.
They have eyes yet do not see......

Oh, so hundreds of millions of people have done something, so it must be right, hey? Well 69 million people voted for Obama, so they must be right, hey?

Honestly, what kind of logic is that? That the kind of twisted crap they're teaching in universities now?

Yeah, what kind of logic is that? I basically used your "logic". You said I'm discounting what hundreds of millions "have done" supposedly, so because hundreds of millions have done, it must be right, hey?

It's your right to refuse to acknowledge all of the evidence. But you're insecurity keeps you in these thread topics because you really know better.

I'm not refusing to acknowledge what other people do. I'm putting into perspective what you're telling me.

There are what, 2 billion Christians on the planet, maybe half of these believe they have spoken to God.
Then there are 1 to 1.5 billion Muslims on the planet, maybe half of these believe they have spoken to God.

Now, the Christians will say the Muslims haven't spoken to God, and the Muslims will say the Christians haven't spoken to God.

And there are probably billions of people out there who think you can't talk to God.

So the evidence is all rather contradictory, and people are saying stuff that doesn't quite make much sense. People will say God has spoken to them, and then you ask and they'll be like "he gave me a sign" but the sign will just be a normal thing that they've interpreted.

Someone I know told me about how great Nostradamus was, how accurate. Then I went and researched and then destroyed his argument in about five minutes. People believe Nostradamus. People believe a lot of shit. Doesn't make them right.

 

[Gracie]

I have a question for the devout Christians in the house.

I grew up a Lutheran (which I call lazy Catholics) and attended church through High School and college. Once out on my own my wife and I (she did not grow up religious) looked for a church, and we just were not moved. I realized by that point that the reason I was looking for a church was more out of habit than anything. Eventually we gave up and we have not attended church for probably 20+ years. I think we live a pretty good life. We treat other people well and spend a lot of time trying to make our community better.

On the other hand, some of the most evil, spiteful people we have encountered are "Christians" who attend church every week. (side note - also some of the best people I know are Chrisitan).

So, my question is, what is better? Someone who lives a moral life without Church, or someone who is a terrible person but goes to church on a regular basis?

You can have church in your closet. You don't need a building or others around you to worship God and He hear you.
My back yard is my church. I love Jesus..I just don't like his followers much...nor the book his followers thump ya with.
In answer to your question...yes. The God I believe in loves you...no matter if you talk to Him in front of other people or all by your lonesome with just birds and nature as the congregation.

 

[Gracie]

Thank you for your response. I don't consider myself a non-believer. I do believe in God. I just am one of those people that thinks that religion is creation of man, not of God. Religion (all religion and spiritual belief) is man's attempt to put into earthly terms that which is really beyond our capability to understand (God).

I really think once we die every one of will have the thought:

One thought, or one understanding? I don't think religion is a creation of man, just the only way we presently have of communicating thoughts and experiences of God.

I agree on your description, but by definition of your description it has to be a creation of man. Notice I am not saying God is a creation of man, just the way we recognize or worship that God.

Not according to the Bible. The Church is the Body of Christ.

But, again, the Bible was written by man. The Church was formed by and is run by men.

Exactly.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Yes, some Muslims convert, I think probably more people convert the other way. People do have that choice.

However I find that many people can't accept to convert. To be told that everything you were brought up to believe is false, it kind of hurts people too much for them to be able to change.

Pride can be a terrible sin.

I actually think that pride can be a great thing. Without pride who would care about anything?

It's all about how you use things. Anger can be used positively, and negatively, just like pride and many other attributes.

You're confusing pride with compassion.

No, I'm not.

I don't have to wear a uniform to work. I could go to work in whatever I choose to go to work in. But I choose to go to work in decent clothing because I have pride. I choose to wear decent clothing on the streets, because I have pride.

Pride can also keep you from listening to rational advice. It can make you take sides against someone who only wants to help you. It can cause you to get pissed off when someone tells you to do something that you don't want to do, but should do for the common good. It can cause you to worry about your looks rather than roll up your sleeves and get dirty, and do something nobody else can or will do. It can cause you to destroy your team and go for the bigger paycheck instead of taking less and winning a championship.

Yes it can. Like I said, most attributes can have positive and negative sides.

To say an attribute is bad, isn't necessarily true.

You can say someone is proud and this is a bad thing, or this is a good thing, based on the individual actions though.

 

[Weatherman2020]

Yep, you proved it. Your only knee jerk response is discounting what hundreds of millions of us have done.
They have eyes yet do not see......

Oh, so hundreds of millions of people have done something, so it must be right, hey? Well 69 million people voted for Obama, so they must be right, hey?

Honestly, what kind of logic is that? That the kind of twisted crap they're teaching in universities now?

Yeah, what kind of logic is that? I basically used your "logic". You said I'm discounting what hundreds of millions "have done" supposedly, so because hundreds of millions have done, it must be right, hey?

It's your right to refuse to acknowledge all of the evidence. But you're insecurity keeps you in these thread topics because you really know better.

I'm not refusing to acknowledge what other people do. I'm putting into perspective what you're telling me.

There are what, 2 billion Christians on the planet, maybe half of these believe they have spoken to God.
Then there are 1 to 1.5 billion Muslims on the planet, maybe half of these believe they have spoken to God.

Now, the Christians will say the Muslims haven't spoken to God, and the Muslims will say the Christians haven't spoken to God.

And there are probably billions of people out there who think you can't talk to God.

So the evidence is all rather contradictory, and people are saying stuff that doesn't quite make much sense. People will say God has spoken to them, and then you ask and they'll be like "he gave me a sign" but the sign will just be a normal thing that they've interpreted.

Someone I know told me about how great Nostradamus was, how accurate. Then I went and researched and then destroyed his argument in about five minutes. People believe Nostradamus. People believe a lot of shit. Doesn't make them right.

I do not believe any Muslim claims to have talked to God. It would be against their belief as Islam is a total submission to their god.

As for two times I am aware of for me, I had witnesses as to the supernatural events, well beyond probabilities and logic. Other people have had the gift of tongues, where they praise God and someone translates. The one I'm personally aware of neither person knew French, let alone old nobility French.

Is there any evidence that would make you think twice?

 

[frigidweirdo]

Oh, so hundreds of millions of people have done something, so it must be right, hey? Well 69 million people voted for Obama, so they must be right, hey?

Honestly, what kind of logic is that? That the kind of twisted crap they're teaching in universities now?

Yeah, what kind of logic is that? I basically used your "logic". You said I'm discounting what hundreds of millions "have done" supposedly, so because hundreds of millions have done, it must be right, hey?

It's your right to refuse to acknowledge all of the evidence. But you're insecurity keeps you in these thread topics because you really know better.

I'm not refusing to acknowledge what other people do. I'm putting into perspective what you're telling me.

There are what, 2 billion Christians on the planet, maybe half of these believe they have spoken to God.
Then there are 1 to 1.5 billion Muslims on the planet, maybe half of these believe they have spoken to God.

Now, the Christians will say the Muslims haven't spoken to God, and the Muslims will say the Christians haven't spoken to God.

And there are probably billions of people out there who think you can't talk to God.

So the evidence is all rather contradictory, and people are saying stuff that doesn't quite make much sense. People will say God has spoken to them, and then you ask and they'll be like "he gave me a sign" but the sign will just be a normal thing that they've interpreted.

Someone I know told me about how great Nostradamus was, how accurate. Then I went and researched and then destroyed his argument in about five minutes. People believe Nostradamus. People believe a lot of shit. Doesn't make them right.

I do not believe any Muslim claims to have talked to God. It would be against their belief as Islam is a total submission to their god.

As for two times I am aware of for me, I had witnesses as to the supernatural events, well beyond probabilities and logic. Other people have had the gift of tongues, where they praise God and someone translates. The one I'm personally aware of neither person knew French, let alone old nobility French.

Is there any evidence that would make you think twice?

It doesn't matter. The point is there.

Muslims pray to God 5 times a day, in some circumstances. Isn't this talking to God? How many people do you know have had a chat with God about football scores?

So you've had two occasions where something you can't explain has happened to you. So you don't know something, and you've decided it was God. Perhaps it wasn't God, perhaps it will be explainable in the future, but just not right now because us Humans don't know enough.

The gift of tongues, I mean, seriously, I could pretend that I'm listening to God and say stuff that someone wants to hear. I could pretend I don't speak other languages, and then speak them.

Yes, there's lots of stuff that would make me think twice. And even if something like this happens, there's still no evidence that it's speaking to God. The brain is a mystery.

 

[Weatherman2020]

Honestly, what kind of logic is that? That the kind of twisted crap they're teaching in universities now?

Yeah, what kind of logic is that? I basically used your "logic". You said I'm discounting what hundreds of millions "have done" supposedly, so because hundreds of millions have done, it must be right, hey?

It's your right to refuse to acknowledge all of the evidence. But you're insecurity keeps you in these thread topics because you really know better.

I'm not refusing to acknowledge what other people do. I'm putting into perspective what you're telling me.

There are what, 2 billion Christians on the planet, maybe half of these believe they have spoken to God.
Then there are 1 to 1.5 billion Muslims on the planet, maybe half of these believe they have spoken to God.

Now, the Christians will say the Muslims haven't spoken to God, and the Muslims will say the Christians haven't spoken to God.

And there are probably billions of people out there who think you can't talk to God.

So the evidence is all rather contradictory, and people are saying stuff that doesn't quite make much sense. People will say God has spoken to them, and then you ask and they'll be like "he gave me a sign" but the sign will just be a normal thing that they've interpreted.

Someone I know told me about how great Nostradamus was, how accurate. Then I went and researched and then destroyed his argument in about five minutes. People believe Nostradamus. People believe a lot of shit. Doesn't make them right.

I do not believe any Muslim claims to have talked to God. It would be against their belief as Islam is a total submission to their god.

As for two times I am aware of for me, I had witnesses as to the supernatural events, well beyond probabilities and logic. Other people have had the gift of tongues, where they praise God and someone translates. The one I'm personally aware of neither person knew French, let alone old nobility French.

Is there any evidence that would make you think twice?

It doesn't matter. The point is there.

Muslims pray to God 5 times a day, in some circumstances. Isn't this talking to God? How many people do you know have had a chat with God about football scores?

So you've had two occasions where something you can't explain has happened to you. So you don't know something, and you've decided it was God. Perhaps it wasn't God, perhaps it will be explainable in the future, but just not right now because us Humans don't know enough.

The gift of tongues, I mean, seriously, I could pretend that I'm listening to God and say stuff that someone wants to hear. I could pretend I don't speak other languages, and then speak them.

Yes, there's lots of stuff that would make me think twice. And even if something like this happens, there's still no evidence that it's speaking to God. The brain is a mystery.

Without any knowledge you start the denials. Your mind is closed, the reason you didn't answer my question.

 

[Gracie]

I talk to God all the time. We have conversations as I sit out under the stars, me in my swing,He up there just listening and if He feels like answering...an owl will hoot close by...or a shooting star will pass....or a possum will wander by or a raccoon will make noise in the shed or a otherwise windless night will have a soft wisp ruffle my hair. Gotta listen. He DOES speak back.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Yeah, what kind of logic is that? I basically used your "logic". You said I'm discounting what hundreds of millions "have done" supposedly, so because hundreds of millions have done, it must be right, hey?

It's your right to refuse to acknowledge all of the evidence. But you're insecurity keeps you in these thread topics because you really know better.

I'm not refusing to acknowledge what other people do. I'm putting into perspective what you're telling me.

There are what, 2 billion Christians on the planet, maybe half of these believe they have spoken to God.
Then there are 1 to 1.5 billion Muslims on the planet, maybe half of these believe they have spoken to God.

Now, the Christians will say the Muslims haven't spoken to God, and the Muslims will say the Christians haven't spoken to God.

And there are probably billions of people out there who think you can't talk to God.

So the evidence is all rather contradictory, and people are saying stuff that doesn't quite make much sense. People will say God has spoken to them, and then you ask and they'll be like "he gave me a sign" but the sign will just be a normal thing that they've interpreted.

Someone I know told me about how great Nostradamus was, how accurate. Then I went and researched and then destroyed his argument in about five minutes. People believe Nostradamus. People believe a lot of shit. Doesn't make them right.

I do not believe any Muslim claims to have talked to God. It would be against their belief as Islam is a total submission to their god.

As for two times I am aware of for me, I had witnesses as to the supernatural events, well beyond probabilities and logic. Other people have had the gift of tongues, where they praise God and someone translates. The one I'm personally aware of neither person knew French, let alone old nobility French.

Is there any evidence that would make you think twice?

It doesn't matter. The point is there.

Muslims pray to God 5 times a day, in some circumstances. Isn't this talking to God? How many people do you know have had a chat with God about football scores?

So you've had two occasions where something you can't explain has happened to you. So you don't know something, and you've decided it was God. Perhaps it wasn't God, perhaps it will be explainable in the future, but just not right now because us Humans don't know enough.

The gift of tongues, I mean, seriously, I could pretend that I'm listening to God and say stuff that someone wants to hear. I could pretend I don't speak other languages, and then speak them.

Yes, there's lots of stuff that would make me think twice. And even if something like this happens, there's still no evidence that it's speaking to God. The brain is a mystery.

Without any knowledge you start the denials. Your mind is closed, the reason you didn't answer my question.

Then again, this is your argument, and as it's your argument, you should be providing the sources to PROVE that this is the case. So far, nothing.

As far as I can tell you're telling me that you BELIEVE this is from God, but you don't know. So, what am I to think? The knowledge seems quite clear on that part. You BELIEVE. You don't know.

 

[Gracie]

It's your right to refuse to acknowledge all of the evidence. But you're insecurity keeps you in these thread topics because you really know better.

I'm not refusing to acknowledge what other people do. I'm putting into perspective what you're telling me.

There are what, 2 billion Christians on the planet, maybe half of these believe they have spoken to God.
Then there are 1 to 1.5 billion Muslims on the planet, maybe half of these believe they have spoken to God.

Now, the Christians will say the Muslims haven't spoken to God, and the Muslims will say the Christians haven't spoken to God.

And there are probably billions of people out there who think you can't talk to God.

So the evidence is all rather contradictory, and people are saying stuff that doesn't quite make much sense. People will say God has spoken to them, and then you ask and they'll be like "he gave me a sign" but the sign will just be a normal thing that they've interpreted.

Someone I know told me about how great Nostradamus was, how accurate. Then I went and researched and then destroyed his argument in about five minutes. People believe Nostradamus. People believe a lot of shit. Doesn't make them right.

I do not believe any Muslim claims to have talked to God. It would be against their belief as Islam is a total submission to their god.

As for two times I am aware of for me, I had witnesses as to the supernatural events, well beyond probabilities and logic. Other people have had the gift of tongues, where they praise God and someone translates. The one I'm personally aware of neither person knew French, let alone old nobility French.

Is there any evidence that would make you think twice?

It doesn't matter. The point is there.

Muslims pray to God 5 times a day, in some circumstances. Isn't this talking to God? How many people do you know have had a chat with God about football scores?

So you've had two occasions where something you can't explain has happened to you. So you don't know something, and you've decided it was God. Perhaps it wasn't God, perhaps it will be explainable in the future, but just not right now because us Humans don't know enough.

The gift of tongues, I mean, seriously, I could pretend that I'm listening to God and say stuff that someone wants to hear. I could pretend I don't speak other languages, and then speak them.

Yes, there's lots of stuff that would make me think twice. And even if something like this happens, there's still no evidence that it's speaking to God. The brain is a mystery.

Without any knowledge you start the denials. Your mind is closed, the reason you didn't answer my question.

Then again, this is your argument, and as it's your argument, you should be providing the sources to PROVE that this is the case. So far, nothing.

As far as I can tell you're telling me that you BELIEVE this is from God, but you don't know. So, what am I to think? The knowledge seems quite clear on that part. You BELIEVE. You don't know.

One word.

FAITH

 

[Weatherman2020]

It's your right to refuse to acknowledge all of the evidence. But you're insecurity keeps you in these thread topics because you really know better.

I'm not refusing to acknowledge what other people do. I'm putting into perspective what you're telling me.

There are what, 2 billion Christians on the planet, maybe half of these believe they have spoken to God.
Then there are 1 to 1.5 billion Muslims on the planet, maybe half of these believe they have spoken to God.

Now, the Christians will say the Muslims haven't spoken to God, and the Muslims will say the Christians haven't spoken to God.

And there are probably billions of people out there who think you can't talk to God.

So the evidence is all rather contradictory, and people are saying stuff that doesn't quite make much sense. People will say God has spoken to them, and then you ask and they'll be like "he gave me a sign" but the sign will just be a normal thing that they've interpreted.

Someone I know told me about how great Nostradamus was, how accurate. Then I went and researched and then destroyed his argument in about five minutes. People believe Nostradamus. People believe a lot of shit. Doesn't make them right.

I do not believe any Muslim claims to have talked to God. It would be against their belief as Islam is a total submission to their god.

As for two times I am aware of for me, I had witnesses as to the supernatural events, well beyond probabilities and logic. Other people have had the gift of tongues, where they praise God and someone translates. The one I'm personally aware of neither person knew French, let alone old nobility French.

Is there any evidence that would make you think twice?

It doesn't matter. The point is there.

Muslims pray to God 5 times a day, in some circumstances. Isn't this talking to God? How many people do you know have had a chat with God about football scores?

So you've had two occasions where something you can't explain has happened to you. So you don't know something, and you've decided it was God. Perhaps it wasn't God, perhaps it will be explainable in the future, but just not right now because us Humans don't know enough.

The gift of tongues, I mean, seriously, I could pretend that I'm listening to God and say stuff that someone wants to hear. I could pretend I don't speak other languages, and then speak them.

Yes, there's lots of stuff that would make me think twice. And even if something like this happens, there's still no evidence that it's speaking to God. The brain is a mystery.

Without any knowledge you start the denials. Your mind is closed, the reason you didn't answer my question.

Then again, this is your argument, and as it's your argument, you should be providing the sources to PROVE that this is the case. So far, nothing.

As far as I can tell you're telling me that you BELIEVE this is from God, but you don't know. So, what am I to think? The knowledge seems quite clear on that part. You BELIEVE. You don't know.

A person seeking truth would have asked questions prior to a conclusion. With a grain of information you immediately jumped to a false conclusion.
You have no interest in the truth.