Can we compare the PLO , including Hamas and Fatah the same as

[Challenger]

Israel would go on the terrorist list under your rules, Phoney. LOL

Yeah, but we control The List, so we put on it, those we don't like, and leave off, those we do like.

We like Jews much better than we like Muslims.

Rather like preferring Intelligent People over Neanderthals.

Entirely understandable.

Who is we?

"We" = Americans.

As evidenced by poll after poll after poll after poll, regarding support for Israel, over the so-called Palestinians...

Americans Sympathies for Israel Match All-Time High

Of course, brainwashed people will believe the propaganda. The rest of the world overwhelmingly supports the Palistinians, including Europe.

STOP LYING I live in Europe and believe me the Europeans hate all muslims . It is the neo Marxist left that is siding with the Palestinians and they are being removed one by one from any position of power

From the NYT printed in 1990:

It is interesting to note that the ANC was also at war with another non-white liberation group, much like Mamas versus Fatah.

"Why Won't Mandela Renounce Violence?

Why Won t Mandela Renounce Violence - NYTimes.com

Interesting....point taken. Mandela did not renounce violence until he was unconditionally freed.

The Palestinians lack a Mandela and the Israeli's lack a de Klerk to move the process forward.

Hamas refuses to even recognize Israel's right to exist as a state - who in Hamas is comparable to Mandela? Even in prison, Mandela was a pivotal figure.

I see no such potential for peace in Hamas.

Actually he never renounced violence and terrorism at all, he did the same as the Palestinians did and demanded conditions and then reneged. He was the cause of the murders of thousands of black South Africans, carried out by his wife's "football team" .

More Phoney baloney.

 

[Penelope]

He was a changed man, of course about 30 years older of hard labor. Without the new Pres. who had him released and worked with him, the apartheid would not of ended with just him out of prison, it took two on the opposite side. I have seen nothing where the Israel gov has been really willing to work with Hamas, or the PLO, they have just announce more apt building, and last month the arrested about 350 more Pals, and even a girl the age of 14 in prison for throwing rocks.

Also you saying that Mandela was wrong for what he and many did, revolted , and well that is like saying they should of just laid down and be treated like second rate citizens. At that rate we'd still have slaves down south in the USA and segregation on buses.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F._W._de_Klerk

De Klerk brokered the end of apartheid, South Africa's racial segregation policy, and supported the transformation of South Africa into a multi-racial democracy by entering into the negotiations that resulted in all citizens, including the country's black majority, having equal voting and other rights. He won the Félix Houphouët-Boigny Peace Prize in 1991, the Prince of Asturias Award in 1992 and the Nobel Peace Prize in 1993 along with Nelson Mandela for his role in the ending of apartheid.

No. I'm not saying Mandela was wrong for having revolted.

I'm saying terrorism - against innocent people - was wrong.

Mandella made up for that by his message and the remainder of life pushing for reconciliation OVER further violence. His actions united his country and earned him the respect of both blacks and whites.

In terms of Hamas - what specifically have they done for reconciliation? Have they renounced violence? Have they recognized Israel's right to exist?

Granted Israel is no angel, but you're making comparisons with Mandela/ANC and Hamas and Fatah. What actions has Hamas engaged in other than terrorism, that is comparable to ANC? Who is Hamas' Mandela?

Who is Israel's Mandela? Terrorism against innocent people is still wrong.

Of course it is. But you were comparing Fatah and Hamas to ANC, not Israel.

the ANC was anti apartheid , so no it was not like Israel. That is true.

Israel has very real inequities between it's treatment of Jewish citizens and it's Arab citizens, it occupies the Palestinians and enforces military law over civilians there, even children. BUT - this is a big but - it's not apartheid. It's unjust and unequal, but apartheid went much further: Apartheid - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

I'm not sure what you'd call it then, and also did you read this art. about Israel and Africa's relationship referenced in that art
Israel South Africa relations - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

 

[Kondor3]

More happy-crappy.self-serving, malevolent faux analogies between Israel and old South Africa.

Rubbish.

Palestinian idiocy and intransigence and cowardice got them where they are today.

Stupidity has consequences.

 

[montelatici]

More happy-crappy.self-serving, malevolent faux analogies between Israel and old South Africa.

Rubbish.

Palestinian idiocy and intransigence and cowardice got them where they are today.

Stupidity has consequences.

No, the migration of Jewish European settlers got them in the situation they are today. No European settlers no conflict between the parties. Same situation in South Africa. But, the Europeans there compromised.

 

[Challenger]

More happy-crappy.self-serving, malevolent faux analogies between Israel and old South Africa.

Rubbish.

Palestinian idiocy and intransigence and cowardice got them where they are today.

Stupidity has consequences.

You're right. They stupidly trusted the UN and the USA to live up to the promise of their ideals. The Zionists on the other hand bribed, blackmailed and bullied to get their way. It may well have been ever thus, but that still doesn't make it right and it does show up that "bastion of freedom and democracy" for the money grubbing hypocrite it really is.

 

[Phoenall]

Yeah, but we control The List, so we put on it, those we don't like, and leave off, those we do like.

We like Jews much better than we like Muslims.

Rather like preferring Intelligent People over Neanderthals.

Entirely understandable.

Who is we?

"We" = Americans.

As evidenced by poll after poll after poll after poll, regarding support for Israel, over the so-called Palestinians...

Americans Sympathies for Israel Match All-Time High

Of course, brainwashed people will believe the propaganda. The rest of the world overwhelmingly supports the Palistinians, including Europe.

STOP LYING I live in Europe and believe me the Europeans hate all muslims . It is the neo Marxist left that is siding with the Palestinians and they are being removed one by one from any position of power

From the NYT printed in 1990:

It is interesting to note that the ANC was also at war with another non-white liberation group, much like Mamas versus Fatah.

"Why Won't Mandela Renounce Violence?

Why Won t Mandela Renounce Violence - NYTimes.com

Interesting....point taken. Mandela did not renounce violence until he was unconditionally freed.

The Palestinians lack a Mandela and the Israeli's lack a de Klerk to move the process forward.

Hamas refuses to even recognize Israel's right to exist as a state - who in Hamas is comparable to Mandela? Even in prison, Mandela was a pivotal figure.

I see no such potential for peace in Hamas.

Actually he never renounced violence and terrorism at all, he did the same as the Palestinians did and demanded conditions and then reneged. He was the cause of the murders of thousands of black South Africans, carried out by his wife's "football team" .

More Phoney baloney.

The Backbencher 8211 3 Things You Didn t Want To Know About Nelson Mandela


Tellingly, not only did Mandela refuse to renounce violence, Amnesty refused to take his case stating “[the] movement recorded that it could not give the name of ‘Prisoner of Conscience’ to anyone associated with violence, even though as in ‘conventional warfare’ a degree of restraint may be exercised.”

8216 Terrorist 8217 Nelson Mandela never renounced violence ZimEye

A group of South Africans have slammed former anti apartheid leader and Nobel prize winner Nelson Mandela for alleged acts of terrorism and stated that like Zimbabwe’s president Robert Mugabe, the anti apartheid hero never renouned violence - See more at: 8216 Terrorist 8217 Nelson Mandela never renounced violence ZimEye

 

[Phoenall]

More happy-crappy.self-serving, malevolent faux analogies between Israel and old South Africa.

Rubbish.

Palestinian idiocy and intransigence and cowardice got them where they are today.

Stupidity has consequences.

No, the migration of Jewish European settlers got them in the situation they are today. No European settlers no conflict between the parties. Same situation in South Africa. But, the Europeans there compromised.

No arab muslim dreams of world conquest and we would not have the situation we now see all over the world.

 

[Kondor3]

More happy-crappy.self-serving, malevolent faux analogies between Israel and old South Africa.

Rubbish.

Palestinian idiocy and intransigence and cowardice got them where they are today.

Stupidity has consequences.

No, the migration of Jewish European settlers got them in the situation they are today. No European settlers no conflict between the parties. Same situation in South Africa. But, the Europeans there compromised.

Sorry... the Arab-Muslim Palestinians' intransigence and unwillingness to compromise led to this clusterphukk...

The Jews from Europe are merely the new Masters in the House...

Before them, came the British, and then the Turks...

Nobody felt like turning the keys over to the least intelligent and savvy and competent amongst the contenders for that land...

Like the Jews, the Muslims did not have clear title to that land (of Old Palestine) either...

So, the Arabs started or provoked several wars, to take it from the Jews...

The Jews originally fought them to a standstill against incredible odds, then, later, kicked their asses good and proper, and repeatedly, to close the deal...

Despite what the Old Ladies' Debating Society (the United Nations) thinks...

Israel now holds the pink-slip, and will end-up keeping it...

Neutralizing threat after threat, as these arise...

The Arabs should not have pushed Israel to fight, repeatedly...

But... no Do-Overs... it's over now... the Israelis have won... decisively... and, for all intents and purposes, permanently.

Get used to it.

Vae victus.

 

[Coyote]

No. I'm not saying Mandela was wrong for having revolted.

I'm saying terrorism - against innocent people - was wrong.

Mandella made up for that by his message and the remainder of life pushing for reconciliation OVER further violence. His actions united his country and earned him the respect of both blacks and whites.

In terms of Hamas - what specifically have they done for reconciliation? Have they renounced violence? Have they recognized Israel's right to exist?

Granted Israel is no angel, but you're making comparisons with Mandela/ANC and Hamas and Fatah. What actions has Hamas engaged in other than terrorism, that is comparable to ANC? Who is Hamas' Mandela?

Who is Israel's Mandela? Terrorism against innocent people is still wrong.

Of course it is. But you were comparing Fatah and Hamas to ANC, not Israel.

the ANC was anti apartheid , so no it was not like Israel. That is true.

Israel has very real inequities between it's treatment of Jewish citizens and it's Arab citizens, it occupies the Palestinians and enforces military law over civilians there, even children. BUT - this is a big but - it's not apartheid. It's unjust and unequal, but apartheid went much further: Apartheid - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

I'm not sure what you'd call it then, and also did you read this art. about Israel and Africa's relationship referenced in that art
Israel South Africa relations - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Interesting article, and no I had not read it, I didn't realize that part of Israel/SA history and Israel was certainly late in finally condemning aparthied.

I do see major difference here though. Apartheid was legislated into SA's legal framework: Apartheid - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

It included
The Population Registration act which created a formal racial classification, introduced an identity card specifying their racial groups and for those who's race was unclear, a board determined racial classification. This often resulted in seperating families due to different racial classifications. I can see some similarity with Israel's residency permit system that splits families.

Prohibition of Mixed Marriages Act prohibiting marriage between races and criminalizing sexual relations between different races. Israel has nothing like that.

Reservation of Seperate Amenities Act - essentially Jim Crowe. Israel has some degree of seperation but it's defacto rather than set up as part of it's legal framework. It can be challanged and changed, if there is the will with out major changes to any laws. In fact it has been challanged in Israeli courts when it comes to refusing admittence of non-Jews to live in certain areas.

Biggest Key Difference -- Israel contains many non-Jewish minorities including a substantial Arab population that shares, in theory, the same rights as the Jewish population. They can vote in all elections, they are offered the same legal protections and rights. That doesn't mean it works that way, there is substantial discrimmination, inequities in the granting of building permits, village expansions, money's allocated to infrastructure and education. But it's not hardwired in the legal system and apartheid was.

 

[Coyote]

More happy-crappy.self-serving, malevolent faux analogies between Israel and old South Africa.

Rubbish.

Palestinian idiocy and intransigence and cowardice got them where they are today.

Stupidity has consequences.

No, the migration of Jewish European settlers got them in the situation they are today. No European settlers no conflict between the parties. Same situation in South Africa. But, the Europeans there compromised.

No arab muslim dreams of world conquest and we would not have the situation we now see all over the world.

Neither is true.

 

[montelatici]

More happy-crappy.self-serving, malevolent faux analogies between Israel and old South Africa.

Rubbish.

Palestinian idiocy and intransigence and cowardice got them where they are today.

Stupidity has consequences.

No, the migration of Jewish European settlers got them in the situation they are today. No European settlers no conflict between the parties. Same situation in South Africa. But, the Europeans there compromised.

Sorry... the Arab-Muslim Palestinians' intransigence and unwillingness to compromise led to this clusterphukk...

The Jews from Europe are merely the new Masters in the House...

Before them, came the British, and then the Turks...

Nobody felt like turning the keys over to the least intelligent and savvy and competent amongst the contenders for that land...

Like the Jews, the Muslims did not have clear title to that land (of Old Palestine) either...

So, the Arabs started or provoked several wars, to take it from the Jews...

The Jews originally fought them to a standstill against incredible odds, then, later, kicked their asses good and proper, and repeatedly, to close the deal...

Despite what the Old Ladies' Debating Society (the United Nations) thinks...

Israel now holds the pink-slip, and will end-up keeping it...

Neutralizing threat after threat, as these arise...

The Arabs should not have pushed Israel to fight, repeatedly...

But... no Do-Overs... it's over now... the Israelis have won... decisively... and, for all intents and purposes, permanently.

Get used to it.

Vae victus.

" and, for all intents and purposes, permanently."

That's what the Boers thought too.

 

[Penelope]

He was a changed man, of course about 30 years older of hard labor. Without the new Pres. who had him released and worked with him, the apartheid would not of ended with just him out of prison, it took two on the opposite side. I have seen nothing where the Israel gov has been really willing to work with Hamas, or the PLO, they have just announce more apt building, and last month the arrested about 350 more Pals, and even a girl the age of 14 in prison for throwing rocks.

Also you saying that Mandela was wrong for what he and many did, revolted , and well that is like saying they should of just laid down and be treated like second rate citizens. At that rate we'd still have slaves down south in the USA and segregation on buses.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F._W._de_Klerk

De Klerk brokered the end of apartheid, South Africa's racial segregation policy, and supported the transformation of South Africa into a multi-racial democracy by entering into the negotiations that resulted in all citizens, including the country's black majority, having equal voting and other rights. He won the Félix Houphouët-Boigny Peace Prize in 1991, the Prince of Asturias Award in 1992 and the Nobel Peace Prize in 1993 along with Nelson Mandela for his role in the ending of apartheid.

No. I'm not saying Mandela was wrong for having revolted.

I'm saying terrorism - against innocent people - was wrong.

Mandella made up for that by his message and the remainder of life pushing for reconciliation OVER further violence. His actions united his country and earned him the respect of both blacks and whites.

In terms of Hamas - what specifically have they done for reconciliation? Have they renounced violence? Have they recognized Israel's right to exist?

Granted Israel is no angel, but you're making comparisons with Mandela/ANC and Hamas and Fatah. What actions has Hamas engaged in other than terrorism, that is comparable to ANC? Who is Hamas' Mandela?

Who is Israel's Mandela? Terrorism against innocent people is still wrong.

Of course it is. But you were comparing Fatah and Hamas to ANC, not Israel.

Yes the ANC was fighting the apartheid gov. aka Israel today.

 

[Daniyel]

He was a changed man, of course about 30 years older of hard labor. Without the new Pres. who had him released and worked with him, the apartheid would not of ended with just him out of prison, it took two on the opposite side. I have seen nothing where the Israel gov has been really willing to work with Hamas, or the PLO, they have just announce more apt building, and last month the arrested about 350 more Pals, and even a girl the age of 14 in prison for throwing rocks.

Also you saying that Mandela was wrong for what he and many did, revolted , and well that is like saying they should of just laid down and be treated like second rate citizens. At that rate we'd still have slaves down south in the USA and segregation on buses.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F._W._de_Klerk

De Klerk brokered the end of apartheid, South Africa's racial segregation policy, and supported the transformation of South Africa into a multi-racial democracy by entering into the negotiations that resulted in all citizens, including the country's black majority, having equal voting and other rights. He won the Félix Houphouët-Boigny Peace Prize in 1991, the Prince of Asturias Award in 1992 and the Nobel Peace Prize in 1993 along with Nelson Mandela for his role in the ending of apartheid.

No. I'm not saying Mandela was wrong for having revolted.

I'm saying terrorism - against innocent people - was wrong.

Mandella made up for that by his message and the remainder of life pushing for reconciliation OVER further violence. His actions united his country and earned him the respect of both blacks and whites.

In terms of Hamas - what specifically have they done for reconciliation? Have they renounced violence? Have they recognized Israel's right to exist?

Granted Israel is no angel, but you're making comparisons with Mandela/ANC and Hamas and Fatah. What actions has Hamas engaged in other than terrorism, that is comparable to ANC? Who is Hamas' Mandela?

Who is Israel's Mandela? Terrorism against innocent people is still wrong.

Of course it is. But you were comparing Fatah and Hamas to ANC, not Israel.

Yes the ANC was fighting the apartheid gov. aka Israel today.

This of course the conclusion that you are trying to force falsely..just like montelatici or whatever, Israel is not even close to be an apartheid which is why you cannot compare SA apartheid to Israel..welcome to my ignore list!

 

[Penelope]

He was a changed man, of course about 30 years older of hard labor. Without the new Pres. who had him released and worked with him, the apartheid would not of ended with just him out of prison, it took two on the opposite side. I have seen nothing where the Israel gov has been really willing to work with Hamas, or the PLO, they have just announce more apt building, and last month the arrested about 350 more Pals, and even a girl the age of 14 in prison for throwing rocks.

Also you saying that Mandela was wrong for what he and many did, revolted , and well that is like saying they should of just laid down and be treated like second rate citizens. At that rate we'd still have slaves down south in the USA and segregation on buses.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F._W._de_Klerk

De Klerk brokered the end of apartheid, South Africa's racial segregation policy, and supported the transformation of South Africa into a multi-racial democracy by entering into the negotiations that resulted in all citizens, including the country's black majority, having equal voting and other rights. He won the Félix Houphouët-Boigny Peace Prize in 1991, the Prince of Asturias Award in 1992 and the Nobel Peace Prize in 1993 along with Nelson Mandela for his role in the ending of apartheid.

No. I'm not saying Mandela was wrong for having revolted.

I'm saying terrorism - against innocent people - was wrong.

Mandella made up for that by his message and the remainder of life pushing for reconciliation OVER further violence. His actions united his country and earned him the respect of both blacks and whites.

In terms of Hamas - what specifically have they done for reconciliation? Have they renounced violence? Have they recognized Israel's right to exist?

Granted Israel is no angel, but you're making comparisons with Mandela/ANC and Hamas and Fatah. What actions has Hamas engaged in other than terrorism, that is comparable to ANC? Who is Hamas' Mandela?

Who is Israel's Mandela? Terrorism against innocent people is still wrong.

Of course it is. But you were comparing Fatah and Hamas to ANC, not Israel.

Yes the ANC was fighting the apartheid gov. aka Israel today.

This of course the conclusion that you are trying to force falsely..just like montelatici or whatever, Israel is not even close to be an apartheid which is why you cannot compare SA apartheid to Israel..welcome to my ignore list!

You have a list, I'm probably with good company then.

 

[Penelope]

Who is Israel's Mandela? Terrorism against innocent people is still wrong.

Of course it is. But you were comparing Fatah and Hamas to ANC, not Israel.

the ANC was anti apartheid , so no it was not like Israel. That is true.

Israel has very real inequities between it's treatment of Jewish citizens and it's Arab citizens, it occupies the Palestinians and enforces military law over civilians there, even children. BUT - this is a big but - it's not apartheid. It's unjust and unequal, but apartheid went much further: Apartheid - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

I'm not sure what you'd call it then, and also did you read this art. about Israel and Africa's relationship referenced in that art
Israel South Africa relations - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Interesting article, and no I had not read it, I didn't realize that part of Israel/SA history and Israel was certainly late in finally condemning aparthied.

I do see major difference here though. Apartheid was legislated into SA's legal framework: Apartheid - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

It included
The Population Registration act which created a formal racial classification, introduced an identity card specifying their racial groups and for those who's race was unclear, a board determined racial classification. This often resulted in seperating families due to different racial classifications. I can see some similarity with Israel's residency permit system that splits families.

Prohibition of Mixed Marriages Act prohibiting marriage between races and criminalizing sexual relations between different races. Israel has nothing like that.

Reservation of Seperate Amenities Act - essentially Jim Crowe. Israel has some degree of seperation but it's defacto rather than set up as part of it's legal framework. It can be challanged and changed, if there is the will with out major changes to any laws. In fact it has been challanged in Israeli courts when it comes to refusing admittence of non-Jews to live in certain areas.

Biggest Key Difference -- Israel contains many non-Jewish minorities including a substantial Arab population that shares, in theory, the same rights as the Jewish population. They can vote in all elections, they are offered the same legal protections and rights. That doesn't mean it works that way, there is substantial discrimmination, inequities in the granting of building permits, village expansions, money's allocated to infrastructure and education. But it's not hardwired in the legal system and apartheid was.

I think Israel will always have non Jews there, what status they hold will have to be seen. I mean look at the US we still have racial discrimination and always will to some degree.

 

[Coyote]

He was a changed man, of course about 30 years older of hard labor. Without the new Pres. who had him released and worked with him, the apartheid would not of ended with just him out of prison, it took two on the opposite side. I have seen nothing where the Israel gov has been really willing to work with Hamas, or the PLO, they have just announce more apt building, and last month the arrested about 350 more Pals, and even a girl the age of 14 in prison for throwing rocks.

Also you saying that Mandela was wrong for what he and many did, revolted , and well that is like saying they should of just laid down and be treated like second rate citizens. At that rate we'd still have slaves down south in the USA and segregation on buses.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F._W._de_Klerk

De Klerk brokered the end of apartheid, South Africa's racial segregation policy, and supported the transformation of South Africa into a multi-racial democracy by entering into the negotiations that resulted in all citizens, including the country's black majority, having equal voting and other rights. He won the Félix Houphouët-Boigny Peace Prize in 1991, the Prince of Asturias Award in 1992 and the Nobel Peace Prize in 1993 along with Nelson Mandela for his role in the ending of apartheid.

No. I'm not saying Mandela was wrong for having revolted.

I'm saying terrorism - against innocent people - was wrong.

Mandella made up for that by his message and the remainder of life pushing for reconciliation OVER further violence. His actions united his country and earned him the respect of both blacks and whites.

In terms of Hamas - what specifically have they done for reconciliation? Have they renounced violence? Have they recognized Israel's right to exist?

Granted Israel is no angel, but you're making comparisons with Mandela/ANC and Hamas and Fatah. What actions has Hamas engaged in other than terrorism, that is comparable to ANC? Who is Hamas' Mandela?

Who is Israel's Mandela? Terrorism against innocent people is still wrong.

Of course it is. But you were comparing Fatah and Hamas to ANC, not Israel.

Yes the ANC was fighting the apartheid gov. aka Israel today.

Except Israel isn't apartheid and unlike Hamas, I don't think the ANC refused to recognize the rights of white south africans to be part of South Africa.

 

[Coyote]

He was a changed man, of course about 30 years older of hard labor. Without the new Pres. who had him released and worked with him, the apartheid would not of ended with just him out of prison, it took two on the opposite side. I have seen nothing where the Israel gov has been really willing to work with Hamas, or the PLO, they have just announce more apt building, and last month the arrested about 350 more Pals, and even a girl the age of 14 in prison for throwing rocks.

Also you saying that Mandela was wrong for what he and many did, revolted , and well that is like saying they should of just laid down and be treated like second rate citizens. At that rate we'd still have slaves down south in the USA and segregation on buses.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F._W._de_Klerk

De Klerk brokered the end of apartheid, South Africa's racial segregation policy, and supported the transformation of South Africa into a multi-racial democracy by entering into the negotiations that resulted in all citizens, including the country's black majority, having equal voting and other rights. He won the Félix Houphouët-Boigny Peace Prize in 1991, the Prince of Asturias Award in 1992 and the Nobel Peace Prize in 1993 along with Nelson Mandela for his role in the ending of apartheid.

No. I'm not saying Mandela was wrong for having revolted.

I'm saying terrorism - against innocent people - was wrong.

Mandella made up for that by his message and the remainder of life pushing for reconciliation OVER further violence. His actions united his country and earned him the respect of both blacks and whites.

In terms of Hamas - what specifically have they done for reconciliation? Have they renounced violence? Have they recognized Israel's right to exist?

Granted Israel is no angel, but you're making comparisons with Mandela/ANC and Hamas and Fatah. What actions has Hamas engaged in other than terrorism, that is comparable to ANC? Who is Hamas' Mandela?

Who is Israel's Mandela? Terrorism against innocent people is still wrong.

Of course it is. But you were comparing Fatah and Hamas to ANC, not Israel.

Yes the ANC was fighting the apartheid gov. aka Israel today.

This of course the conclusion that you are trying to force falsely..just like montelatici or whatever, Israel is not even close to be an apartheid which is why you cannot compare SA apartheid to Israel..welcome to my ignore list!

Israel isn't apartheid and unfortunately those who claim it is delegitimize some very real inequities in Israel between it's Jewish citizens and it's Arab citizens.

 

[montelatici]

He was a changed man, of course about 30 years older of hard labor. Without the new Pres. who had him released and worked with him, the apartheid would not of ended with just him out of prison, it took two on the opposite side. I have seen nothing where the Israel gov has been really willing to work with Hamas, or the PLO, they have just announce more apt building, and last month the arrested about 350 more Pals, and even a girl the age of 14 in prison for throwing rocks.

Also you saying that Mandela was wrong for what he and many did, revolted , and well that is like saying they should of just laid down and be treated like second rate citizens. At that rate we'd still have slaves down south in the USA and segregation on buses.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F._W._de_Klerk

De Klerk brokered the end of apartheid, South Africa's racial segregation policy, and supported the transformation of South Africa into a multi-racial democracy by entering into the negotiations that resulted in all citizens, including the country's black majority, having equal voting and other rights. He won the Félix Houphouët-Boigny Peace Prize in 1991, the Prince of Asturias Award in 1992 and the Nobel Peace Prize in 1993 along with Nelson Mandela for his role in the ending of apartheid.

No. I'm not saying Mandela was wrong for having revolted.

I'm saying terrorism - against innocent people - was wrong.

Mandella made up for that by his message and the remainder of life pushing for reconciliation OVER further violence. His actions united his country and earned him the respect of both blacks and whites.

In terms of Hamas - what specifically have they done for reconciliation? Have they renounced violence? Have they recognized Israel's right to exist?

Granted Israel is no angel, but you're making comparisons with Mandela/ANC and Hamas and Fatah. What actions has Hamas engaged in other than terrorism, that is comparable to ANC? Who is Hamas' Mandela?

Who is Israel's Mandela? Terrorism against innocent people is still wrong.

Of course it is. But you were comparing Fatah and Hamas to ANC, not Israel.

Yes the ANC was fighting the apartheid gov. aka Israel today.

This of course the conclusion that you are trying to force falsely..just like montelatici or whatever, Israel is not even close to be an apartheid which is why you cannot compare SA apartheid to Israel..welcome to my ignore list!

Israel treats the Palestinians far worse than the white South Africans treated the non-whites. That's the only part that is not comparable. I welcome being on your ignore list, it means the truth has finally won.

 

[Roudy]

No but we can compare them to ISIS and Al Queda, because essentially, they are the same.

 

[montelatici]

You are saying that the ANC are the same as ISIS and Al Qaeda?