Can Any Rightwinger Give Me A Solid Argument Why Private Industry Instead Of Government Should Run..

[Wry Catcher]

Enron! A prime example of why Private and unregulated business should never run our system of health care.

Enron was involved in the highly regulated energy market. They were highly regulated by the SEC, among other agencies.
So what we see is that regulation is no guarantee against fraud or crime. Ergo most regulation is useless.
Thanks for proving the opposite of whatever you thought you were proving.

You're a liar. See:

California s Disaster With Electrical Deregulation

and,

California electricity crisis - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
Rabbi is a LIAR!!!

 

[Boss]

...our healthcare system?

Already there is a big money in healthcare. If corporations run our healthcare system, they can charge whatever they want. Seriously what good is having state of the art healthcare if poor people can't afford the most basic of cancer treatment?

Why would it not be better to create a system that insures proper treatment for everyone? Sure it wouldn't be perfect, but if you take away profit as an incentive you are less likely to have corruption. Let's stop wasting billions a year on useless defense expenses and focus that money on socialized medicine.

Here's a fun fact: polls show 92% of Canadians prefer the Canadian healthcare system over the US system.

First of all, corporations DO run our health care system and they have since... forever. If you think corporations can simply "charge whatever they want" then you have zero understanding of how capitalism works. The reasons there is "big money" in healthcare is because health care is important. In fact, it's probably the single most important thing to most people, their health.

Every corporation who provides something in the health care field, has thousands of government-mandated regulations and requirements to follow. Criteria has to be met through dozens of government agencies. Standards have to be maintained, vigorous routine certifications must be done. None of this is free to the corporation. Then they have to maintain a high level of liability insurance, in case someone sues them for a billion dollars.

Cancer treatments are expensive because the equipment is expensive and operational cost is expensive, and the paying of competent people to run the machines are expensive. Is any of this soaking in to your mush-brain head? Now it simply doesn't get cheaper because you remove competitive free market capitalists from the equation. Nothing in Obamacare did anything to lower the cost of health care, to make it more accessible or improve the quality.

Oh, and here is fun fact... 0% of the 92% of Canadians who prefer their health care system are going to want to wait 2 years for open heart surgery instead of having it as soon as possible.

 

[Mathbud1]

...our healthcare system?

Already there is a big money in healthcare. If corporations run our healthcare system, they can charge whatever they want. Seriously what good is having state of the art healthcare if poor people can't afford the most basic of cancer treatment?

Why would it not be better to create a system that insures proper treatment for everyone? Sure it wouldn't be perfect, but if you take away profit as an incentive you are less likely to have corruption. Let's stop wasting billions a year on useless defense expenses and focus that money on socialized medicine.

Here's a fun fact: polls show 92% of Canadians prefer the Canadian healthcare system over the US system.

First of all, corporations DO run our health care system and they have since... forever. If you think corporations can simply "charge whatever they want" then you have zero understanding of how capitalism works. The reasons there is "big money" in healthcare is because health care is important. In fact, it's probably the single most important thing to most people, their health.

Every corporation who provides something in the health care field, has thousands of government-mandated regulations and requirements to follow. Criteria has to be met through dozens of government agencies. Standards have to be maintained, vigorous routine certifications must be done. None of this is free to the corporation. Then they have to maintain a high level of liability insurance, in case someone sues them for a billion dollars.

Cancer treatments are expensive because the equipment is expensive and operational cost is expensive, and the paying of competent people to run the machines are expensive. Is any of this soaking in to your mush-brain head? Now it simply doesn't get cheaper because you remove competitive free market capitalists from the equation. Nothing in Obamacare did anything to lower the cost of health care, to make it more accessible or improve the quality.

Oh, and here is fun fact... 0% of the 92% of Canadians who prefer their health care system are going to want to wait 2 years for open heart surgery instead of having it as soon as possible.

You forgot to mention the quality assurance costs. If your iphone is defective, Apple ships a new one. No big deal. If your surgical equipment is defective, someone dies.

 

[Boss]

Let's stop wasting billions a year on useless defense expenses and focus that money on socialized medicine.

Also... WTF? Do you honestly want to close all our bases around the world and disband our military so we can pay for the health care of every crackpot hypochondriac, pill head and attention seeker in America? What kind of a fucking idiot are you?

 

[Boss]

You forgot to mention the quality assurance costs. If your iphone is defective, Apple ships a new one. No big deal. If your surgical equipment is defective, someone dies.

Thanks. The OP is so full of mush-brain stupidity it is hard to address it all.

 

[Billy000]

...our healthcare system?

Already there is a big money in healthcare. If corporations run our healthcare system, they can charge whatever they want. Seriously what good is having state of the art healthcare if poor people can't afford the most basic of cancer treatment?

Why would it not be better to create a system that insures proper treatment for everyone? Sure it wouldn't be perfect, but if you take away profit as an incentive you are less likely to have corruption. Let's stop wasting billions a year on useless defense expenses and focus that money on socialized medicine.

Here's a fun fact: polls show 92% of Canadians prefer the Canadian healthcare system over the US system.

First of all, corporations DO run our health care system and they have since... forever. If you think corporations can simply "charge whatever they want" then you have zero understanding of how capitalism works. The reasons there is "big money" in healthcare is because health care is important. In fact, it's probably the single most important thing to most people, their health.

Every corporation who provides something in the health care field, has thousands of government-mandated regulations and requirements to follow. Criteria has to be met through dozens of government agencies. Standards have to be maintained, vigorous routine certifications must be done. None of this is free to the corporation. Then they have to maintain a high level of liability insurance, in case someone sues them for a billion dollars.

Cancer treatments are expensive because the equipment is expensive and operational cost is expensive, and the paying of competent people to run the machines are expensive. Is any of this soaking in to your mush-brain head? Now it simply doesn't get cheaper because you remove competitive free market capitalists from the equation. Nothing in Obamacare did anything to lower the cost of health care, to make it more accessible or improve the quality.

Oh, and here is fun fact... 0% of the 92% of Canadians who prefer their health care system are going to want to wait 2 years for open heart surgery instead of having it as soon as possible.

Yes obviously there is a cap on how much these corporations want to charge for these services however they are aware that because of rising income inequality, the biggest money makers are the wealthy and middle class. Yes they have expensive costs, but that doesn't mean they don't want to make a good profit. They don't give a shit that poor people can't afford their services. That isn't where the big business comes from. That is WHY our system is flawed.

How are you people still not getting this?

 

[Boss]

...our healthcare system?

Already there is a big money in healthcare. If corporations run our healthcare system, they can charge whatever they want. Seriously what good is having state of the art healthcare if poor people can't afford the most basic of cancer treatment?

Why would it not be better to create a system that insures proper treatment for everyone? Sure it wouldn't be perfect, but if you take away profit as an incentive you are less likely to have corruption. Let's stop wasting billions a year on useless defense expenses and focus that money on socialized medicine.

Here's a fun fact: polls show 92% of Canadians prefer the Canadian healthcare system over the US system.

First of all, corporations DO run our health care system and they have since... forever. If you think corporations can simply "charge whatever they want" then you have zero understanding of how capitalism works. The reasons there is "big money" in healthcare is because health care is important. In fact, it's probably the single most important thing to most people, their health.

Every corporation who provides something in the health care field, has thousands of government-mandated regulations and requirements to follow. Criteria has to be met through dozens of government agencies. Standards have to be maintained, vigorous routine certifications must be done. None of this is free to the corporation. Then they have to maintain a high level of liability insurance, in case someone sues them for a billion dollars.

Cancer treatments are expensive because the equipment is expensive and operational cost is expensive, and the paying of competent people to run the machines are expensive. Is any of this soaking in to your mush-brain head? Now it simply doesn't get cheaper because you remove competitive free market capitalists from the equation. Nothing in Obamacare did anything to lower the cost of health care, to make it more accessible or improve the quality.

Oh, and here is fun fact... 0% of the 92% of Canadians who prefer their health care system are going to want to wait 2 years for open heart surgery instead of having it as soon as possible.

Yes obviously there is a cap on how much these corporations want to charge for these services however they are aware that because of rising income inequality, the biggest money makers are the wealthy and middle class. Yes they have expensive costs, but that doesn't mean they don't want to make a good profit. They don't give a shit that poor people can't afford their services. That isn't where the big business comes from. That is WHY our system is flawed.

How are you people still not getting this?

Hey dumb bunny, EVERY capitalist wants to make a profit.

 

[Billy000]

Let's stop wasting billions a year on useless defense expenses and focus that money on socialized medicine.

Also... WTF? Do you honestly want to close all our bases around the world and disband our military so we can pay for the health care of every crackpot hypochondriac, pill head and attention seeker in America? What kind of a fucking idiot are you?

No dumbshit that isn't what I said. Can you be this dense? We spend more on defense than all of our allies do combined. Do you honestly believe we need to spend that much? No. Even the pentagon believes their projects are over funded.

 

[Billy000]

...our healthcare system?

Already there is a big money in healthcare. If corporations run our healthcare system, they can charge whatever they want. Seriously what good is having state of the art healthcare if poor people can't afford the most basic of cancer treatment?

Why would it not be better to create a system that insures proper treatment for everyone? Sure it wouldn't be perfect, but if you take away profit as an incentive you are less likely to have corruption. Let's stop wasting billions a year on useless defense expenses and focus that money on socialized medicine.

Here's a fun fact: polls show 92% of Canadians prefer the Canadian healthcare system over the US system.

First of all, corporations DO run our health care system and they have since... forever. If you think corporations can simply "charge whatever they want" then you have zero understanding of how capitalism works. The reasons there is "big money" in healthcare is because health care is important. In fact, it's probably the single most important thing to most people, their health.

Every corporation who provides something in the health care field, has thousands of government-mandated regulations and requirements to follow. Criteria has to be met through dozens of government agencies. Standards have to be maintained, vigorous routine certifications must be done. None of this is free to the corporation. Then they have to maintain a high level of liability insurance, in case someone sues them for a billion dollars.

Cancer treatments are expensive because the equipment is expensive and operational cost is expensive, and the paying of competent people to run the machines are expensive. Is any of this soaking in to your mush-brain head? Now it simply doesn't get cheaper because you remove competitive free market capitalists from the equation. Nothing in Obamacare did anything to lower the cost of health care, to make it more accessible or improve the quality.

Oh, and here is fun fact... 0% of the 92% of Canadians who prefer their health care system are going to want to wait 2 years for open heart surgery instead of having it as soon as possible.

Yes obviously there is a cap on how much these corporations want to charge for these services however they are aware that because of rising income inequality, the biggest money makers are the wealthy and middle class. Yes they have expensive costs, but that doesn't mean they don't want to make a good profit. They don't give a shit that poor people can't afford their services. That isn't where the big business comes from. That is WHY our system is flawed.

How are you people still not getting this?

Hey dumb bunny, EVERY capitalist wants to make a profit.

Yeah no shit dumb fuck. That doesn't mean it isn't a problem that poor people can't afford basic treatment to chronic illnesses.

 

[Boss]

Yes obviously there is a cap on how much these corporations want to charge for these services however they are aware that because of rising income inequality, the biggest money makers are the wealthy and middle class. Yes they have expensive costs, but that doesn't mean they don't want to make a good profit. They don't give a shit that poor people can't afford their services. That isn't where the big business comes from. That is WHY our system is flawed.

How are you people still not getting this?

More of your mindless liberal rhetoric. If we are going to have a free enterprise, free market capitalist system in America, the actuality of that will be a constant and consistent income inequality. The rich get richer because they know how to make money. The poor remain poor because they don't know how to make money. There is no way to make this not happen without destroying free market capitalism and replacing it with Communism.

We do not have "classes" in America. We are a free nation where every man is created equal and endowed with the same rights of liberty. It is in your communist and socialist nations where you find "classes" of people who are imprisoned to their lot in life with no hope of escape. In America, you are free to become as wealthy as you please, and many people do just that.

You have been brainwashed by Marxist Communist Socialists who want to destroy what we have in this nation. They've convinced you that we have a serious problem and all the wealth and power is held by a few. You don't understand that wealth is fluid, it comes and goes, new wealth is created. In a free market system, you are free to go out there and make as much money as you like. It's not easy or everyone would do it. It's very difficult, but it can be done and it is done, every single day.

 

[Boss]

Yeah no shit dumb fuck. That doesn't mean it isn't a problem that poor people can't afford basic treatment to chronic illnesses.

We addressed the needs of poor people and their health care 47 years ago with Medicaid.

 

[Billy000]

Yes obviously there is a cap on how much these corporations want to charge for these services however they are aware that because of rising income inequality, the biggest money makers are the wealthy and middle class. Yes they have expensive costs, but that doesn't mean they don't want to make a good profit. They don't give a shit that poor people can't afford their services. That isn't where the big business comes from. That is WHY our system is flawed.

How are you people still not getting this?

More of your mindless liberal rhetoric. If we are going to have a free enterprise, free market capitalist system in America, the actuality of that will be a constant and consistent income inequality. The rich get richer because they know how to make money. The poor remain poor because they don't know how to make money. There is no way to make this not happen without destroying free market capitalism and replacing it with Communism.

We do not have "classes" in America. We are a free nation where every man is created equal and endowed with the same rights of liberty. It is in your communist and socialist nations where you find "classes" of people who are imprisoned to their lot in life with no hope of escape. In America, you are free to become as wealthy as you please, and many people do just that.

You have been brainwashed by Marxist Communist Socialists who want to destroy what we have in this nation. They've convinced you that we have a serious problem and all the wealth and power is held by a few. You don't understand that wealth is fluid, it comes and goes, new wealth is created. In a free market system, you are free to go out there and make as much money as you like. It's not easy or everyone would do it. It's very difficult, but it can be done and it is done, every single day.

You moron. Productivity in the lower classes has grown 100% since the 30s yet wages have remained flat and way behind on inflation. If the federal minimum wage were to keep up with inflation it would have to be double what it is now. Meanwhile, the top 1% of the population own 40% of the nation's wealth. Since the recession, there has been a significant decrease in high wage jobs and a significant increase on low wage jobs. We are at the mercy of the "job creators". This republican propaganda that everyone just needs a can-do spirit to have a good living is outdated bullshit.

I have no beef with the average CEO making 50x more than the average worker but I do have a problem wih a CEO making 350x more. I don't want Marxism. If I did, I would just say so.

 

[Boss]

Let's stop wasting billions a year on useless defense expenses and focus that money on socialized medicine.

Also... WTF? Do you honestly want to close all our bases around the world and disband our military so we can pay for the health care of every crackpot hypochondriac, pill head and attention seeker in America? What kind of a fucking idiot are you?

No dumbshit that isn't what I said. Can you be this dense? We spend more on defense than all of our allies do combined. Do you honestly believe we need to spend that much? No. Even the pentagon believes their projects are over funded.

Oh, I am sure there are areas in defense contracts where we are spending way more than we should and those cuts do need to be made. Not sure if it's still the case, but about a decade ago, we were spending a billion dollars per year to maintain a helium storage facility up north, because at one time, helium was considered a vital strategic resource for military dirigibles. But this is a PRIME example of why it's utterly STUPID to put government in control of something and expect it to be more efficient.

However, your entire point is lunacy. The total amount we spend on our military is less than 10% of what Americans spend annually on health care. They aren't even in the same ball park. So when you say stuff like "cut the defense to pay for nationalized health care" it's completely idiotic. if we completely gutted the military and diverted all those funds to health care, it probably wouldn't even cover the amount of fraud and abuse of a nationalized health care system.

 

[Boss]

You moron. Productivity in the lower classes has grown 100% since the 30s yet wages have remained flat and way behind on inflation. If the federal minimum wage were to keep up with inflation it would have to be double what it is now. Meanwhile, the top 1% of the population own 40% of the nation's wealth. Since the recession, there has been a significant decrease in high wage jobs and a significant increase on low wage jobs. We are at the mercy of the "job creators". This republican propaganda that everyone just needs a can-do spirit to have a good living is outdated bullshit.

I have no beef with the average CEO making 50x more than the average worker but I do have a problem wih a CEO making 350x more. I don't want Marxism. If I did, I would just say so.

We're not at the mercy of anyone, doofus. We live in a free society. We are all blessed with the freedom and liberty to go out there and start our own business and become our own CEO.

Again... there are no classes in America. What you have become used to calling "middle class" is fluid, people move into and out of it every day.

Now take a close look here... what is happening to the shrinking "middle class" in America?

That's right, they are becoming the New Wealthy.

 

[Billy000]

You moron. Productivity in the lower classes has grown 100% since the 30s yet wages have remained flat and way behind on inflation. If the federal minimum wage were to keep up with inflation it would have to be double what it is now. Meanwhile, the top 1% of the population own 40% of the nation's wealth. Since the recession, there has been a significant decrease in high wage jobs and a significant increase on low wage jobs. We are at the mercy of the "job creators". This republican propaganda that everyone just needs a can-do spirit to have a good living is outdated bullshit.

I have no beef with the average CEO making 50x more than the average worker but I do have a problem wih a CEO making 350x more. I don't want Marxism. If I did, I would just say so.

We're not at the mercy of anyone, doofus. We live in a free society. We are all blessed with the freedom and liberty to go out there and start our own business and become our own CEO.

Again... there are no classes in America. What you have become used to calling "middle class" is fluid, people move into and out of it every day.

Now take a close look here... what is happening to the shrinking "middle class" in America?

That's right, they are becoming the New Wealthy.

What the fuck are you talking about? The main takeaway from that graph is that the middle income is shrinking. Don't you think that would cancel out the growing percentage of high income?

 

[Boss]

You moron. Productivity in the lower classes has grown 100% since the 30s yet wages have remained flat and way behind on inflation. If the federal minimum wage were to keep up with inflation it would have to be double what it is now. Meanwhile, the top 1% of the population own 40% of the nation's wealth. Since the recession, there has been a significant decrease in high wage jobs and a significant increase on low wage jobs. We are at the mercy of the "job creators". This republican propaganda that everyone just needs a can-do spirit to have a good living is outdated bullshit.

I have no beef with the average CEO making 50x more than the average worker but I do have a problem wih a CEO making 350x more. I don't want Marxism. If I did, I would just say so.

We're not at the mercy of anyone, doofus. We live in a free society. We are all blessed with the freedom and liberty to go out there and start our own business and become our own CEO.

Again... there are no classes in America. What you have become used to calling "middle class" is fluid, people move into and out of it every day.

Now take a close look here... what is happening to the shrinking "middle class" in America?

That's right, they are becoming the New Wealthy.

What the fuck are you talking about? The main takeaway from that graph is that the middle income is shrinking. Don't you think that would cancel out the growing percentage of high income?

Where are they going? Your "middle class" is shrinking... they aren't joining the "poor" because they are shrinking too. Here's a hint... what group is growing?

 

[The Rabbi]

Enron! A prime example of why Private and unregulated business should never run our system of health care.

Enron was involved in the highly regulated energy market. They were highly regulated by the SEC, among other agencies.
So what we see is that regulation is no guarantee against fraud or crime. Ergo most regulation is useless.
Thanks for proving the opposite of whatever you thought you were proving.

You're a liar. See:

California s Disaster With Electrical Deregulation

and,

California electricity crisis - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
Rabbi is a LIAR!!!

That has zero to do with Enron.
There was no deregulation. It was the regulations that tripped up CA.
You fail. Your own state and you dont have a fucking clue what happened there.

 

[Rikurzhen]

Yes obviously there is a cap on how much these corporations want to charge for these services however they are aware that because of rising income inequality, the biggest money makers are the wealthy and middle class. Yes they have expensive costs, but that doesn't mean they don't want to make a good profit. They don't give a shit that poor people can't afford their services. That isn't where the big business comes from. That is WHY our system is flawed.

How are you people still not getting this?

More of your mindless liberal rhetoric. If we are going to have a free enterprise, free market capitalist system in America, the actuality of that will be a constant and consistent income inequality. The rich get richer because they know how to make money. The poor remain poor because they don't know how to make money. There is no way to make this not happen without destroying free market capitalism and replacing it with Communism.

We do not have "classes" in America. We are a free nation where every man is created equal and endowed with the same rights of liberty. It is in your communist and socialist nations where you find "classes" of people who are imprisoned to their lot in life with no hope of escape. In America, you are free to become as wealthy as you please, and many people do just that.

You have been brainwashed by Marxist Communist Socialists who want to destroy what we have in this nation. They've convinced you that we have a serious problem and all the wealth and power is held by a few. You don't understand that wealth is fluid, it comes and goes, new wealth is created. In a free market system, you are free to go out there and make as much money as you like. It's not easy or everyone would do it. It's very difficult, but it can be done and it is done, every single day.

You moron. Productivity in the lower classes has grown 100% since the 30s yet wages have remained flat and way behind on inflation. If the federal minimum wage were to keep up with inflation it would have to be double what it is now. Meanwhile, the top 1% of the population own 40% of the nation's wealth. Since the recession, there has been a significant decrease in high wage jobs and a significant increase on low wage jobs. We are at the mercy of the "job creators". This republican propaganda that everyone just needs a can-do spirit to have a good living is outdated bullshit.

I have no beef with the average CEO making 50x more than the average worker but I do have a problem wih a CEO making 350x more. I don't want Marxism. If I did, I would just say so.

You are a weird case. You are clearly capable of summoning some facts, like you did with productivity growth since the 1930s but you seem unable to comprehend how the moving pieces all tie in together.

From the 1930s until the early 1970s, Labor had the upper hand on Capital and captured ever larger shares of those productivity gains. How did they do that? How? There was virtually no immigration during that period, meaning there was no new annual influx of a immigrants into the labor force. There was labor scarcity and this drove up wages. It increased Labor's bargaining power.

The solution to the problem is sitting right here, right in front of you, grab it and advocate for it. Hint: it's not minimum wage increases.

 

[Boss]

Enron! A prime example of why Private and unregulated business should never run our system of health care.

Do you even understand what Enron was all about? They were not a private unregulated business, they were a public corporation who was highly regulated and they cooked their books and broke the law. People were sent to prison for that. Why you idiots run to Enron as your go-to example of evil capitalism is beyond me. There is no system known to man which eliminates any possibility someone will break the law... except for your commie Marxist socialist system where the tyrant IS the law. In our system, there are whistle-blowers who disclose the wrong-doing and a judicial system that brings the criminals to justice. Under commie rule, the whistle-blower gets his head blown off and you never hear about the wrong-doing.

and AGAIN... for the mentally slow... Private business has been running health care for all of it's existence. We do have an example of government-run health care, it's called the VA! Go ask one of our veterans who are waiting in their wheelchair OUTSIDE a VA hospital for care, just how fucking great the government-run system is!

 

[Boss]

In my ideal system the medical costs wouldn't be profit driven. That's what would separate it. That is why the patient pays for so much.

My ideal socialized system could be profit driven to a degree. There are systems like this. Canada is to an extent. Ours however is all about the money. That is why it sucks.

You started by saying the ideal system wouldn't be profit driven, before you even got that out of your mouth, you changed it to being... well, maybe a little profit driven to a degree. Well, what degree? Who gets to decide what degree? Should we put your stupid ass in charge of it? You don't even understand how profit works in a capitalist model.

Allow me to educate you a little here, because I am a capitalist who has made a business model for a successful capitalist business before. For any business, there are a number of cost factors for providing a product or service. You have labor costs, administrative costs, property costs and depreciation, insurance costs, material costs, taxes, fees, advertising, accounting, vacations, sick leave, utility bills, and about a thousand other assorted costs that factor in to how much it costs you to produce the product or service. Beyond this, you need to make a profit, but you actually need to make more than a 10% profit gain to successfully grow your business, anything below 10% is a losing proposition and can't continue over time.

Now here is where the tricky part comes in... In America, we have free market capitalism, which means, other people are able to form businesses to compete with your business. Then it becomes kind of like a stock car race, every little thing you do, every little move you make, is important to the bottom line. Competition is what keeps you from just saying, hey, we're going to make record profits this year because our CEO wants to fill his swimming pool with cash! You can't just jack up your prices to make more profits because there are other competitors out there who will cut your price and take your business.

The reason costs are so high when it comes to health care is because health care is so important. Look.... Imagine you are going to jump out of an airplane. I'm going to give you the choice of a parachute made by child labor in China for $25, or a parachute made by OSHA standards in America, tested and certified, for $100. Which parachute are you going to buy? Is profit really going to be your deciding factor there? This is what you have with health care, things are expensive because they often mean the difference between life or death.

Brings me to my final point.... You know all those commercials you see on the weekends... If you used Whatchamacalltrix and experienced pain, discomfort or sudden death, you could be entitled to a cash reward! Call our law office at 1-800-SHYSTER NOW for a free evaluation! Well, okay... someone has to pay those cash rewards out. There isn't some magic money fairy who pays out these lucrative cash rewards. Companies have to actually pay those settlements or have insurance policies to cover them, and that is expensive. All of this factors into the cost before a penny of profit is realized.