Bush Says Disgusted by Abuse of Iraqis, Vows to Act

[JIHADTHIS]

Originally posted by spillmind
you can kiss mine.
show up with a little content and some orignal artwork on your avatar, and we might have a little debate. and what exactly is my 'ilk'. oh omniscient one?

Your ilk:

Come on a message board, act like you are holier then thou and accuse everyone who supports Bush of being brain washed "bushies" seems to be one of your common assertions. Perception is 9/10ths of reality. Maybe this is not your intention. I don't know you, nor do you know me. That you come off talking down to people is what probably pisses a lot of people off.

actually, it's more out of disbelief that so many people that can figure out AOL and the internet, let alone a chat room STILL SUPPORT BUSH.

even more amazing is his followers (or whatever) standing by his word like he was the second coming of christ or something.

most cannot think of anything bush has done wrong (save for maybe jim, and maybe a smattering here and there), let alone, the brainiac himself. i say accountability needs to be upheld, and we need to TAKE BACK OUR COUNTRY from the corrupt politicians running it. (BOTH PARTIES!)

this topic is for another thread, but it's funny- for all the people screaming bloody murder at me, and ganging up on me, attacking me for not answering questions, the ONLY response i got about the hypocrisy of the topic, is one saying that there is no relation, and no hypocrisy- from the board moderator. to me, both have humanitarian considerations, but i guess i am the only one capable of seeing that. *shrugs*

I haven't been hanging around this board for too long, but I have plenty of problems with Bush and all politicians in general. I can think of plenty that GW has done wrong: The BS medicaid bill, his stance on immigration and open borders, and lately his allowing of his re-election campaign to side track him from the current wars we are fighting. I think the whole federal government is to blame for 9/11. This includes every president from GW going back to Carter. We spend more time worrying about the details then doing what needs to be done.

There is much hypocrisy in this world. Everybody is all up in arms about our so called atrocities in Iraq, yet the same people were pretty tight lipped about Saddams killing fields. The UN (useless organization that is) says never again on the 10th anniversary of the Rwandaa genocide, but whats going on in the Sudan now? The same friggin thing.

Unfortunatley, I don't think the majority of the people who live in this country spend enough time worrying about the things that aren't on American Idol. These are serious times we live in, and our actions today are going to have major repercussions on all of those who come after us. Politicians are only out for their own ass. It doesn't matter what party they are in.

PS I don't like kissing green asses
: :

 

[JIHADTHIS]

When I say blame in my previous post let me add this:

Osama and the jihadist movement are who should be blamed for 9/11. I'm just dissapointed that the federal gov't didn't stop this whole thing from happening.

 

[NewGuy]

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by NewGuy
For the blind and mentally disabled:

RWA: No. These atrocities are few and far between. That's how we're qualitatively different.

I don't care how the world VIEWS us. I care about the truth. Our intentions are good and those with a clue know it.

ME: Define "our".

RWA: NO.

I still await an answer.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



RWA: I'm not defining "our". Make your point, if you dare.

You are such a sissy. Remember this next time you badger ME.

 

[JIHADTHIS]

Hey Spillmind,

I made a new avatar, can we debate now?

XOXOXO

Jihadthis!

(checking to see if you have a sense of humor )

 

[spillmind]

I haven't been hanging around this board for too long, but I have plenty of problems with Bush and all politicians in general. I can think of plenty that GW has done wrong: The BS medicaid bill, his stance on immigration and open borders, and lately his allowing of his re-election campaign to side track him from the current wars we are fighting. I think the whole federal government is to blame for 9/11. This includes every president from GW going back to Carter. We spend more time worrying about the details then doing what needs to be done.

i actually AGREE

Unfortunatley, I don't think the majority of the people who live in this country spend enough time worrying about the things that aren't on American Idol. These are serious times we live in, and our actions today are going to have major repercussions on all of those who come after us. Politicians are only out for their own ass. It doesn't matter what party they are in.

i agree with this, too... so what's with the bush lovin, kerry hating?

 

[insein]

I think what gets misunderstood is that when my president gets bashed for no good reason, i defend him. I have criticisms of him. Things i don't like, such as the border situation and the medicare bill. On the whole though, he is my president and i believe what he says is truthful.

I beleive that playing the blame game gets us no where. To say it was Clinton's fault or Bush's fault or Carter's fault doesnt stop the fact that it happened. We need to go over the evidence not to put blame on people as the 9/11 commission is doing. We need to do this so that it doesnt happen again. So while yes bush was the president at the time that 9/11 happened, he is also the first president to take a PRO-active stance on terrorism instead of a passive stance.

9/11 happened because terrorists wanted it to happen. I doubt we would have stopped it even if previous admins took a proactive stance.

 

[NewGuy]

Originally posted by insein
I think what gets misunderstood is that when my president gets bashed for no good reason, i defend him. I have criticisms of him. Things i don't like, such as the border situation and the medicare bill. On the whole though, he is my president and i believe what he says is truthful.

I beleive that playing the blame game gets us no where. To say it was Clinton's fault or Bush's fault or Carter's fault doesnt stop the fact that it happened. We need to go over the evidence not to put blame on people as the 9/11 commission is doing. We need to do this so that it doesnt happen again. So while yes bush was the president at the time that 9/11 happened, he is also the first president to take a PRO-active stance on terrorism instead of a passive stance.

9/11 happened because terrorists wanted it to happen. I doubt we would have stopped it even if previous admins took a proactive stance.

It was Gumby's fault.

If he can "walk in to any book", he should have seen this coming. HE could have gotten into the areas we could not have and taken care of business.

Nobody would suspect a guy made out of clay, and he could get in and out undetected. If they tried to mow him down, he would just reform.

I think he was out scamming on Goo with Pokey. That must be it. He was NOT at his post.

It is HIS fault.

 

[JIHADTHIS]

Originally posted by spillmind
i actually AGREE

i agree with this, too... so what's with the bush lovin, kerry hating?

Kerry scares me. From the little bit I have been able to surmise from his speeches and the vague ideas on his website, I don't agree with his ideas.

His "I would bring in the UN and repair our relationships with our allies". I have zero confidence in the UN. Zero. Look at their recent history, and the failures they have had. Throw in the Oil for Food scandal. Add a little hypocrisy (Sudan on the Human Rights commission? Can you say janjaweed?) As for allies, with friends like Chirac, who needs enemies?

His "I'm going to create jobs" . I don't think it's the governments job to create jobs. Not in a free market economy.

His inability to take a stand on any issue because it might alienate a potential voter out there.

His desire to raise taxes.

I don't agree with his anti-war stance that he took when he came back from Vietnam. (Anti war is one thing, some of the accusations he made have never been proved and I think he did a great disservice to the military that was still "in country"

He is so friggin negative on everything. Being a cynic is one thing, exuding as much negativity that he does must make for painful bowel movements.

It just seems to be that every other sentence out of his mouth is either "Its GWB's fault" or "When I was in Vietnam...."

And I just flat out don't like the man

As for W:

He says what he is going to do, and more or less has done it.

At the end of the day, if the jihadists get their way and strike us again, all other domestic issues are not really going to matter. I have more faith in the Bush administration to fix the things that are broken then Kerry.

It's still the lesser of 2 evils scenario, but until this country wakes up its the best we have.

 

[Tippy Toes]

Originally posted by JIHADTHIS
Kerry scares me. From the little bit I have been able to surmise from his speeches and the vague ideas on his website, I don't agree with his ideas.

I agree with you. He sounds like an asshole. He's trying to go centrist now. Oh boy!

 

[spillmind]

So while yes bush was the president at the time that 9/11 happened, he is also the first president to take a PRO-active stance on terrorism instead of a passive stance.

as would any president in his position. so what? why has it taken so long to release an official government report on 9/11? why all the debate over classified memos? why not just say this instead of smear clarke? the fact that bush said he doesn't believe he's made ANY MISTAKES in his tenure should speak volumes to anyone willing to listen.

His "I would bring in the UN and repair our relationships with our allies". I have zero confidence in the UN. Zero. Look at their recent history, and the failures they have had. Throw in the Oil for Food scandal. Add a little hypocrisy (Sudan on the Human Rights commission? Can you say janjaweed?) As for allies, with friends like Chirac, who needs enemies?

well, bush NEEDS the UN now, to form a coalition of countries (including arab) to stabilize iraq. if this doesn't happen, we're screwed. all this investing, and all the lost lives with be for naught. i don't understand why you condemn the only chance of 'success' in iraq.

His "I'm going to create jobs" . I don't think it's the governments job to create jobs. Not in a free market economy.

honestly, no one president has EVER come close to performing as poorly as bush on this front. how could kerry feasibly do any worse?

His inability to take a stand on any issue because it might alienate a potential voter out there.

let's see. i know where he stands on abortion, rights for gays, where he stands on education, and health care... and let's face it- TAXES ARE GOING AFTER THE ELECTION. it doesn't matter who's in office. do you really think we can stretch spending, and reduce income? let's be serious.

I don't agree with his anti-war stance that he took when he came back from Vietnam. (Anti war is one thing, some of the accusations he made have never been proved and I think he did a great disservice to the military that was still "in country"

now, do you really think he was attacking the troops in the region or the politicians waging the war?

He is so friggin negative on everything. Being a cynic is one thing, exuding as much negativity that he does must make for painful bowel movements.

i'd rather somebody took a realistic stance on issues, and not sugar coat everything. according to bush, the economy is doing great, and we are winning the war in iraq. sorry, but this just is not the case. while some people don't consider this nonsense LIES, i do. at least tell it like it is.

It just seems to be that every other sentence out of his mouth is either "Its GWB's fault" or "When I was in Vietnam...."

in all fairness, it seems like the only real phrases anyone hears come out of dubya's mouth are: 'freedom' 'democracy' 'terrorist' 'stay the course' ...he also manages to string a sentence together every now and then i really have to laugh to keep from crying with him. i can't wait to hear the debates. a hint of what kind of articulation to expect should draw on each candidate's ability to speak. kerry speaks seven languages, dubya can barely hack one. i just hope the debates aren't freaking scripted and rehearsed beforehand. i'm getting really SICK OF THAT CRAP.

And I just flat out don't like the man

that's pretty apparent.

He says what he is going to do, and more or less has done it.

operative word being 'less' in that statement. let's see: education, environment, social security, budget... about the only thing he's delivered is saddam. if that's 'more', what do you consider 'less'?

At the end of the day, if the jihadists get their way and strike us again, all other domestic issues are not really going to matter. I have more faith in the Bush administration to fix the things that are broken then Kerry.

'faith'? are you christian? i still believe in freedom of religion, personally. all i see is the track record of bush. AND IT SUCKS! IT'S HIGH TIME FOR A CHANGE

It's still the lesser of 2 evils scenario, but until this country wakes up its the best we have.

we will never 'wake up' if we continue to SETTLE for the lesser of two evils. there's just far too much blood on dubya's hands. he's really REALLY gotta go.

i'll bet my paycheck other nations will be more willing to negotiate with new leadership than to have to deal with dubya for four more years. no one likes his policies, and we need all the international allies we can get. OUR best chance is to show the world, we are willing to work with them, not this go it alone crap.

 

[JIHADTHIS]

Originally posted by spillmind
the fact that bush said he doesn't believe he's made ANY MISTAKES in his tenure should speak volumes to anyone willing to listen.

Bush did not say that.

well, bush NEEDS the UN now, to form a coalition of countries (including arab) to stabilize iraq. if this doesn't happen, we're screwed. all this investing, and all the lost lives with be for naught. i don't understand why you condemn the only chance of 'success' in iraq.

Why this reliance on the UN, if I was an Iraqi I'd be pretty pissed off to know how they screwed us with Saddam. How many more bad decisions and how much more corruption and incompetence do they need to display before they are disbanded?

honestly, no one president has EVER come close to performing as poorly as bush on this front. how could kerry feasibly do any worse?

The numbers dis-prove that. Let me ask you this: If the media wasn't pounding the same mantra of "the economy is bad" over and over do you think the economy is that bad? My business has had double digit sales and profit increases for the past 18 months. (no I'm not a defense contractor)

let's see. i know where he stands on abortion, rights for gays, where he stands on education, and health care... and let's face it- TAXES ARE GOING AFTER THE ELECTION. it doesn't matter who's in office. do you really think we can stretch spending, and reduce income? let's be serious.

We both know that any president can propose every program under the sun. If it's not financed by congress it ain't going to happen. Why do we need to spend more all the time? This whole thinking is flawed. Government has no problem expanding spending every year, yet I manage to stay on the same budget every year.

now, do you really think he was attacking the troops in the region or the politicians waging the war?

He claimed that servicemen (including himself) committed "atrocities".

i'd rather somebody took a realistic stance on issues, and not sugar coat everything. according to bush, the economy is doing great, and we are winning the war in iraq. sorry, but this just is not the case. while some people don't consider this nonsense LIES, i do. at least tell it like it is.

I started a thread a few weeks ago asking a similar question. If politicians cut the bullshit and just leveled with people we'd be all better off. Sadly the majority holds politicians to such a low standard that they get away with it. Kerry just keeps pounding away about how bad everything is, what a bunch of liars the repubs are, everything sucks, but if you vote for me everything will be great.

in all fairness, it seems like the only real phrases anyone hears come out of dubya's mouth are: 'freedom' 'democracy' 'terrorist' 'stay the course' ...he also manages to string a sentence together every now and then i really have to laugh to keep from crying with him. i can't wait to hear the debates. a hint of what kind of articulation to expect should draw on each candidate's ability to speak. kerry speaks seven languages, dubya can barely hack one. i just hope the debates aren't freaking scripted and rehearsed beforehand. i'm getting really SICK OF THAT CRAP.

Because the man has a such horrible speaking skills, do we automatically right him off? Speaking skills don't make a leader. I agree with you about the debates. We're only going to see what the candidates want us to see. It does suck.

operative word being 'less' in that statement. let's see: education, environment, social security, budget... about the only thing he's delivered is saddam. if that's 'more', what do you consider 'less'?

Less then what? What are you comparing it to?

'faith'? are you christian?

I'm pretty much going to burn in hell or miss out on the 72 virgins, depends on what I feel like :

we will never 'wake up' if we continue to SETTLE for the lesser of two evils.

Agreed. But under the current 2 party system and the amount of $$$ thrown around what do you propose?

there's just far too much blood on dubya's hands. he's really REALLY gotta go.

Blood on his hands? Care to elaborate?

i'll bet my paycheck other nations will be more willing to negotiate with new leadership than to have to deal with dubya for four more years. no one likes his policies, and we need all the international allies we can get. OUR best chance is to show the world, we are willing to work with them, not this go it alone crap.

I don't have a problem with a global economy. But that's enough global for me. Why do we "need" all of these international allies? Are we supposed to suck up to France, Germany, Spain, etc? For what? What have they done for us lately? And why do we really care what they think?

Good fences make good neighbors.

 

[arnoldlayne]

The thing that strook me about the whole torture thing is the reaction of American and British people to it!!
I mean, both the U.S and U.K armies are volunteer armies rather than a conscripted public army. So you might think who would volunteer for armies of countries that are always at war?
True, its not fair to say everyone who's joined up are wanting to experience violence, that is niave, igorant and is bullshit...
BUT there are 'some' who join up with the express purpose of killing/maming/torturing..and you know what, its these people who the Military machine reley on, precisely because it is a volunteer army.

Anyone who has served in Germany in the 1970s and 1980s will tell you of the rot that set in the army after Vietnam and which spread through the Forces during the Cold War. Institutionalized bullying and the continual cover ups of murders and tortures within the the Ranks started to become more frequent. Soldiers, bored stupid by no action, entertained themselves in a way that you might expect of people trained to fight the enemy rather than bordem.

The culture of covering up nasty and foul behaviour grew as Generals chose to look away, worried it might put people joining up for Uncle Sam.
So now, it is this Army, with this worrying culture of bullying and sadism that is out there..representing you..an army out there amongst a desperate people, who have had those 'sorts' of people as their goverment for over 30 yrs. I wonder how they feel about it all?

Lets hope this whole adventure doesn't end up with us as the bad guys?

 

[conspiracytees]

bush is an absolute toolbox

 

[OCA]

Originally posted by conspiracytees
bush is an absolute toolbox

:alco:

Gonna be fun tonight!

 

[insein]

Originally posted by OCA
:alco:

Gonna be fun tonight!

Fresh Fish. Fresh Fish. Fresh Fish.

 

[JIHADTHIS]

Originally posted by conspiracytees
bush is an absolute toolbox

Jeez, that was absolute brilliance.......

 

[spillmind]

Gonna be fun tonight!

Fresh Fish. Fresh Fish. Fresh Fish.

oh yeah, reply to the one liner
arnoldlayne, good post.

jihadyourmomma:

Bush did not say that.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/3625131.stm

http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/04/13/bush.conference/

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/0414-01.htm

(on a sidenote, listening to this guy speak is EMBARASSING)

Why this reliance on the UN, if I was an Iraqi I'd be pretty pissed off to know how they screwed us with Saddam. How many more bad decisions and how much more corruption and incompetence do they need to display before they are disbanded?

moving forward- without a wider coalation INCLUDING ARAB COUNTRIES, the handover will most certainly FAIL. how can you really argue this?

The numbers dis-prove that. Let me ask you this: If the media wasn't pounding the same mantra of "the economy is bad" over and over do you think the economy is that bad? My business has had double digit sales and profit increases for the past 18 months. (no I'm not a defense contractor)

oh yeah, how many people have you taken on in the last 18 months? NO BULLSHIT. let's see some jobs being created, already!

We both know that any president can propose every program under the sun. If it's not financed by congress it ain't going to happen. Why do we need to spend more all the time? This whole thinking is flawed. Government has no problem expanding spending every year, yet I manage to stay on the same budget every year.

dude, you said no one knows where he STANDS. not if it's getting passed by congress. you riding a tangent?

He claimed that servicemen (including himself) committed "atrocities".

were they not? is not every single death for a lost cause ATROCIOUS? what was the great thing that came from our war in vietnam? what is the great thing that HAS COME from the war in iraq? stick to the past and that present, since those are the only FACTS we have to currently draw on.

Because the man has a such horrible speaking skills, do we automatically right him off? Speaking skills don't make a leader. I agree with you about the debates. We're only going to see what the candidates want us to see. It does suck.

i swear, if those questions are scripted or rehearsed at all, I'M GOING TO BE PISSED AS HELL. meanwhile, most americans won't give a shit.
...as long as it isn't on during 'Survivor'.

Less then what? What are you comparing it to?

how about you make a list of bush accomplishments, since i assume he's getting your vote.

Blood on his hands? Care to elaborate?

commissioning a war in iraq should suffice as an explanation here.

I don't have a problem with a global economy. But that's enough global for me. Why do we "need" all of these international allies? Are we supposed to suck up to France, Germany, Spain, etc? For what? What have they done for us lately? And why do we really care what they think?

suck up? is this what you tell military families that have lost their kin? that we are too 'proud' to need help from anyone else in iraq? i'm talking about nations that will not co-operate because of our thick skull president that refuses to see things any way but his. we NEED more of a global support, or all the lives lost in iraq will be for naught.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Simmer down, spillmind.

 

[JIHADTHIS]

jihadyourmomma:

Petty name calling now? I thought you wanted to debate like an adult.....

quote:
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Bush did not say that.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/3625131.stm

http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS...ush.conference/

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/0414-01.htm

(on a sidenote, listening to this guy speak is EMBARASSING)

From the transcript of the speech on 4/13:

"I hope I -- I don't want to sound like I've made no mistakes. I'm confident I have."

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2004/04/20040413-20.html

quote:
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Why this reliance on the UN, if I was an Iraqi I'd be pretty pissed off to know how they screwed us with Saddam. How many more bad decisions and how much more corruption and incompetence do they need to display before they are disbanded?
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moving forward- without a wider coalation INCLUDING ARAB COUNTRIES, the handover will most certainly FAIL. how can you really argue this?

And there's no way to do a coalition without the UN flag I guess. Funny there's 30+ countries in Iraq with us today. But I'm sure you'll counter that they are insignificant since France & Germany aren't there. Tell those countries that came to Iraq with us voluntarily that they are mere window dressing.

quote:
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The numbers dis-prove that. Let me ask you this: If the media wasn't pounding the same mantra of "the economy is bad" over and over do you think the economy is that bad? My business has had double digit sales and profit increases for the past 18 months. (no I'm not a defense contractor)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

oh yeah, how many people have you taken on in the last 18 months? NO BULLSHIT. let's see some jobs being created, already!

I'm a private contractor but my clients have all been hiringsince Q2 OF 03. You didn't answer my question about being pounded with the constant negative BS.

quote:
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We both know that any president can propose every program under the sun. If it's not financed by congress it ain't going to happen. Why do we need to spend more all the time? This whole thinking is flawed. Government has no problem expanding spending every year, yet I manage to stay on the same budget every year.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

dude, you said no one knows where he STANDS. not if it's getting passed by congress. you riding a tangent?

I said I don't know where he stands. You call his vague ramblings positions?

quote:
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He claimed that servicemen (including himself) committed "atrocities".
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

were they not? is not every single death for a lost cause ATROCIOUS? what was the great thing that came from our war in vietnam? what is the great thing that HAS COME from the war in iraq? stick to the past and that present, since those are the only FACTS we have to currently draw on.

War sucks. Because you consider it a lost cause as of 71 doesn't mean what Kerry did was right. It's real easy to throw out statements like he did with no regard to what affect they will have.

quote:
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Because the man has a such horrible speaking skills, do we automatically right him off? Speaking skills don't make a leader. I agree with you about the debates. We're only going to see what the candidates want us to see. It does suck.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

i swear, if those questions are scripted or rehearsed at all, I'M GOING TO BE PISSED AS HELL. meanwhile, most americans won't give a shit.
...as long as it isn't on during 'Survivor'.

We already agreed on that

quote:
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Less then what? What are you comparing it to?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

how about you make a list of bush accomplishments, since i assume he's getting your vote.

After the 8 year debacle of Clinton he restored some decency to the Whitehouse. I've already stated that I have problems with him and I'm not going to blindly go on about how great he is. If Gore was in office, do you think we would have taken a stand against the Islamic Jihadists or would he have sent the FBI to go arrest someone?

quote:
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Blood on his hands? Care to elaborate?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

commissioning a war in iraq should suffice as an explanation here.

So, the UN which you are so fond of, passes its resolutions against Iraq and lets him ignore them for 12 years. Turns out they were in bed with him. But that's OK. The US (Bush) tells the UN to put up or shut up. They don't put up. Would you have rather we just wait for the situation to get worse over there? You go on about atrocities and every life is valuable, were you so outraged when Saddam and his sons were filling their killing fields with their own countrymen?

quote:
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I don't have a problem with a global economy. But that's enough global for me. Why do we "need" all of these international allies? Are we supposed to suck up to France, Germany, Spain, etc? For what? What have they done for us lately? And why do we really care what they think?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

suck up? is this what you tell military families that have lost their kin? that we are too 'proud' to need help from anyone else in iraq? i'm talking about nations that will not co-operate because of our thick skull president that refuses to see things any way but his. we NEED more of a global support, or all the lives lost in iraq will be for naught.

It's got nothing to do with pride. What help are they going to give us? You act like the UN is some magic bullet that is going to solve everything. It's not. If you were an Iraqi and your family starved because Saddam was taking your food money (In the form of the Oil for Food program) and building palaces, and you knew the UN was complicit in this, how much would you trust them?

You lament about how we're never going to get anywhere with the lesser of 2 evils mentality, yet you use it yourself when you speak of international coalitions. Most countrys are not going to get involved unless there is something in it for them.

 

[insein]

Spillmind can't be reasoned with. He beleives what he wants to beleive and no one can convince him otherwise. You keep thinking Iraq is Vietnam. Meanwhile you can thank GW for no WMDs falling into your back yard.