BUSH CRIES UNCLE, No Torture for Terrorists

[insein]

ditto

Psychoblues

Ooh, your powers of deduction are exceptional. I can't allow you to waste them here when there are so many crimes going unsolved at this very moment. Go, go, for the good of the city.

 

[Gunny]

Please you people make me sick.

Do you honestly think this is anything other than McCain voting politics? Do you think anyone could vote against what has been proclaimed the "Anti-Torture" bill?

The fact is, Americans didn't torture prisoners before. We don't torture prisoners now, and we won't in the future. But you have now added a bunch of things that aren't torture to the list of things that make our job to protect America tougher.

Besides, this bill can't be that good at eliminating torture. You guys are still talking.

A-MEN!

 

[Bullypulpit]

SO why was Dick Cheney lobbying so hard to keep this piece of legislation from passing? Why was he working so hard to keep Congress from "tying the president's hands"? Why did, now USAG, Alberto Gonzalez and former US assistant counsel John Yoo expend so much energy in dismissing the Geneva Conventions and redefining torture and inhumane treatment?

Thousands of years of torture have shown us one thing...the torture victim will say anything to stop the torture. Ask anyone who was a POW in 'Nam, or North Korea, or during WW II. When they were tortured, they told their captors anything in order to make the torture stop. <a href=http://www.cvt.org/main.php/Advocacy/TheCampaigntoStopTorture/WhatCVTknowsaboutTorture>Torture is not a reliable means of acquiring actionable intel.</a>

Dubbyuh caved to McCain because he did not want to be labeled as failing to take a stand against torture. Nothing more...Nothing less.

This amendment does not go far enough, however. It does nothing to stop the practice of extraordinary rendition, whereby prisoners in US custody are transported to nations which allow, or turn a blind eye to torture. This is, in and of itself a vioaltion of US treaty obligations under <a href=http://www1.umn.edu/humanrts/instree/h2catoc.htm>the UN Convention Against Torture</a>. Until that issue is addressed, the amendment is meaningless.

 

[BaronVonBigmeat]

That's how Bush could claim with a straight face that we don't torture people. This is hair-splitting on the level of "depends what your definition of "is" is". Send them to other countries, and "we" can't be held responsible now can we?

Another reason why McCain is opposed to torture hasn't been mentioned--it has long been understood that by torturing enemy POW's, you are insuring that any of our guys who get captured will be treated worse. America has had a good reputation in this regard until recently, but now we're doing our damnedest to change that.

 

[LuvRPgrl]

If it was true that Americans have not been at least permitted and in many cases even ordered to commit torture, the McCain bill would not have been necessary at all

Actually it wasnt necessary, so you are right,

Sometimes you proponents of torture just make me sick. All Veterans that also embrace "torture" as an American value and/or ideal, please raise your hands?!!!!!!!?

Psychoblues

Glad to be of service. Send me your address and I will send you a vomit bucket, or ten

 

[tim_duncan2000]

Another reason why McCain is opposed to torture hasn't been mentioned--it has long been understood that by torturing enemy POW's, you are insuring that any of our guys who get captured will be treated worse.

I'm sure the terrorist assholes will treat them well now.

Thousands of years of torture have shown us one thing...the torture victim will say anything to stop the torture. Ask anyone who was a POW in 'Nam, or North Korea, or during WW II. When they were tortured, they told their captors anything in order to make the torture stop.

Like the articles said, why does McCain say that but then he turns around and says that it would probably be okay in the ticking time bomb scenario? Why would it be okay then if it's never effective?

Also, McCain's amendment doesn't stop with torture; it also mentions "degrading treatment". That could be anything. Muslims don't want women to interrogate them and a scantily-clad one really would offend them. Should we disallow that?

 

[BATMAN]

America has had a good reputation in this regard until recently, but now we're doing our damnedest to change that.

I'd like to think of it as us trying our damnedest to protect ourselves by getting the info we need.

 

[Gunny]

That's how Bush could claim with a straight face that we don't torture people. This is hair-splitting on the level of "depends what your definition of "is" is". Send them to other countries, and "we" can't be held responsible now can we?

Another reason why McCain is opposed to torture hasn't been mentioned--it has long been understood that by torturing enemy POW's, you are insuring that any of our guys who get captured will be treated worse. America has had a good reputation in this regard until recently, but now we're doing our damnedest to change that.

Yeah ....gues you couldn't ask for much more than to have your head sawed off on videotape.

 

[manu1959]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,179064,00.html

WASHINGTON — Sen. John McCain, who pushed the White House to support a ban on torture, suggested Sunday that harsh treatment of a terrorism suspect who knew of an imminent attack would not violate international standards.

 

[ScreamingEagle]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,179064,00.html

WASHINGTON &#8212; Sen. John McCain, who pushed the White House to support a ban on torture, suggested Sunday that harsh treatment of a terrorism suspect who knew of an imminent attack would not violate international standards.

Well, that's good to know...does that mean no twinkies with lunch?

And Sen. McPain, just exactly what "international standards" are you referring to?

How about tasers? Is tasering terrorists violating international standards?

 

[Avatar4321]

SO why was Dick Cheney lobbying so hard to keep this piece of legislation from passing? Why was he working so hard to keep Congress from "tying the president's hands"? Why did, now USAG, Alberto Gonzalez and former US assistant counsel John Yoo expend so much energy in dismissing the Geneva Conventions and redefining torture and inhumane treatment?

Thousands of years of torture have shown us one thing...the torture victim will say anything to stop the torture. Ask anyone who was a POW in 'Nam, or North Korea, or during WW II. When they were tortured, they told their captors anything in order to make the torture stop. <a href=http://www.cvt.org/main.php/Advocacy/TheCampaigntoStopTorture/WhatCVTknowsaboutTorture>Torture is not a reliable means of acquiring actionable intel.</a>

Dubbyuh caved to McCain because he did not want to be labeled as failing to take a stand against torture. Nothing more...Nothing less.

This amendment does not go far enough, however. It does nothing to stop the practice of extraordinary rendition, whereby prisoners in US custody are transported to nations which allow, or turn a blind eye to torture. This is, in and of itself a vioaltion of US treaty obligations under <a href=http://www1.umn.edu/humanrts/instree/h2catoc.htm>the UN Convention Against Torture</a>. Until that issue is addressed, the amendment is meaningless.

The President caved? Perhaps he just figured getting the funding for the troops and supporting the Senates resolution to drill in Anwar outweighed his distain against this torture bill which legislates against nothing we have done.

It more looks like the Democrats caved in allowing drilling in Anwar so they could support a bill that is nothing but a ceramonial law to say they dont approve of torture.

 

[Gunny]

The President caved? Perhaps he just figured getting the funding for the troops and supporting the Senates resolution to drill in Anwar outweighed his distain against this torture bill which legislates against nothing we have done.

It more looks like the Democrats caved in allowing drilling in Anwar so they could support a bill that is nothing but a ceramonial law to say they dont approve of torture.

Right? F-ing geniuses. They got over? It was ALREADY illegal to torture prisoners.

Hail to the victors! LMAO!

 

[Psychoblues]

Yeah, you're the only genious around here, aren't you, Marine Sergeant GunnyL? Having not considered that you might have been or might be misled relegates you to a very pure ignorant society, doesn't it?

Psychoblues

Right? F-ing geniuses. They got over? It was ALREADY illegal to torture prisoners.

Hail to the victors! LMAO!

 

[Gunny]

Yeah, you're the only genious around here, aren't you, Marine Sergeant GunnyL? Having not considered that you might have been or might be misled relegates you to a very pure ignorant society, doesn't it?

Psychoblues

If you're going to attempt to insult me, could you at least SPELL it right?

Misled? Are you saying it is not and has not been illegal to torture POWs?

Lay off the bong, dude.

 

[Psychoblues]

I'll repeat this to you, gunnyl shithead ex-marine and American traitor. I don't use the bong, drugs, other than beer, Prevacid and Reglan, and I didn't intend to although I probably did insult you. In afterthought, you get insulted fairly easily considering the big balls warrior that you constantly profess that you are.

Psychoblues

If you're going to attempt to insult me, could you at least SPELL it right?

Misled? Are you saying it is not and has not been illegal to torture POWs?

Lay off the bong, dude.

 

[MtnBiker]

Alright, the name calling can stop now!

 

[Emmett]

Last I checked we were all on the same side...........I think!

If the decision had been mine they'd be glowing! I would not feed em, I would not bring them their ugly little killing manuals, nor would I allow them the cushy existance they enjoy. There are Terroists!!!!!!!

Herd em in, ask em questions, beat their ass if they don't answer, ship em back~! That isn't as bad as having your head cut off on AL-Jazzerra TV.

You go Gunny!

 

[sitarro]

If you're going to attempt to insult me, could you at least SPELL it right?

Misled? Are you saying it is not and has not been illegal to torture POWs?

Lay off the bong, dude.

the genius mispelled genius.

 

[SpidermanTuba]

He threatened to veto the bill if the McCain language was included in it. He pissed and cried about abilities to extract information and damage to troop morale and generally accepted interrogation technigues and even brought it up that the enemy does it to us.

Really now, Americans are bigger than torture. Than can be no better example of that than John McCain. He actually served in Viet Nam, was taken prisoner of war and severely tortured by his captors. He doesn't believe in information given during torture excercises. It's actually elementary to him, and to me, that information of that kind is totally untrustworthy.

I've tried a few times to explain all that here in USMB but was severely ostracised for having done so. For all you war-mongering believers in torture and the benefits thereof, I hope you were paying attention as the President backed down and finally agreed that true Americans don't cotton or cater to terrorism or otherwise torture. We're bigger than that.

Psychoblues

Bush must hate America and American values if he doesn't advocate torture.

 

[SpidermanTuba]

Please you people make me sick.

Do you honestly think this is anything other than McCain voting politics? Do you think anyone could vote against what has been proclaimed the "Anti-Torture" bill?

.

I didn't think any President would honestly threaten to veto a bill because it had an anti-torture provision. But hey, Bush has been a man of many firsts.