BREAKING! Robert Mueller Requests Postponement of Gen. Michael Flynn’s Sentencing

[Foxfyre]

You still can't be honest. No surprise there. You progressives are all a bunch of unethical scumbags. Time will tell which of us is correct, so be patient.

My honesty is intact. Your character is tattered.

You claim Flynn was caught lying due to an illegal warrant; when in fact, the warrant you refer to as illegal, was the eavesdrop on Carter Page and has nothing to do with Michael Flynn getting caught lying.

You lack the character to simply admit you’re wrong. And sadly from r you, lashing out at me does nothing to redeem your character.

A very well stated point. To which I would only add a thought on the highlighted portion.

Carter Page, the central figure in the now much debated FISA warrant that gave the FBI/State Department license to spy on the Trump campaign has yet to be charged with anything after months of surveillance.

He has not yet been charged, no doubt because he is a very useful idiot. Not only to the FBI but the Russians as well. That means as long as the Russians keep him in play and we can continue to glean insights into those Russian plays, Page remains an asset.

The only real question that should be asked is why Trump chose to employ such a tarnished character. No doubt it was because Page and his contacts gave them access where they needed it. Not unlike Manafort or Papadrunkoulos.

His FISA warrant had run out and there was insufficient evidence to reauthorize it except for the contents of that Russian dossier as testified under oath by McCabe. The dossier connected Page to the Trump campaign and administration.

Oh, and that’s a lie too. Even Nunes’ memo says other evidence was offered to obtain the warrant. It wasn’t just from the dossier.

There wasn't enough without it.

Which McCabe quite clearly said in his testimony.

 

[Foxfyre]

My honesty is intact. Your character is tattered.

You claim Flynn was caught lying due to an illegal warrant; when in fact, the warrant you refer to as illegal, was the eavesdrop on Carter Page and has nothing to do with Michael Flynn getting caught lying.

You lack the character to simply admit you’re wrong. And sadly from r you, lashing out at me does nothing to redeem your character.

A very well stated point. To which I would only add a thought on the highlighted portion.

Carter Page, the central figure in the now much debated FISA warrant that gave the FBI/State Department license to spy on the Trump campaign has yet to be charged with anything after months of surveillance.

He has not yet been charged, no doubt because he is a very useful idiot. Not only to the FBI but the Russians as well. That means as long as the Russians keep him in play and we can continue to glean insights into those Russian plays, Page remains an asset.

The only real question that should be asked is why Trump chose to employ such a tarnished character. No doubt it was because Page and his contacts gave them access where they needed it. Not unlike Manafort or Papadrunkoulos.

His FISA warrant had run out and there was insufficient evidence to reauthorize it except for the contents of that Russian dossier as testified under oath by McCabe. The dossier connected Page to the Trump campaign and administration.

Oh, and that’s a lie too. Even Nunes’ memo says other evidence was offered to obtain the warrant. It wasn’t just from the dossier.

There wasn't enough without it.

How do you know? Source missing & link missing.

Even the Democrats are not disputing that McCabe testified to that. You can read the memo for yourself of course.
Spy Warrant Granted Based On Dossier And News Stories Planted By Fusion GPS

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Ah haaaa! What do we have here?

Easy....Mueller is not satisfied with Flynn's cooperation, and is thus giving him a bit more time, since the sentence Flynn gets will depend on his cooperation.

 

[jc456]

I think you're a little behind the times. Flynn is well past the "indictment" phase - he's already plead guilty.

That's why they're talking about sentencing.

Guilty pleas, obtained via illegally gotten evidence, are Vacated not infrequently.

Oh, oh! Do I smell an acquittal on the horizon? How does that work?

Not necessarily, but the possibility exists. I haven't had the pleasure of seeing how mueller got the evidence he used against flynn, but if it is tainted then flynn walks. Sadly so to will manafort, who really is a scumbag.

They have all been accused, indicted, tried, and convicted in the media. I don't know how anybody could get a fair trial in all this mess, regardless of guilt or lack thereof.

So Papadopoulos and Flynn have both pled guilty of one count of failure to report or getting a date wrong in sworn testimony. In the grand scheme of things, can either be said to be of any great threat to Mom, apple pie, or the American way let alone national security?

Manafort may or may not be a scumbag and/or guilty of something, but he remains under house arrest on his own recognizance, so how serious could his crimes, if any, really be?

Carter Page, the central figure in the now much debated FISA warrant that gave the FBI/State Department license to spy on the Trump campaign has yet to be charged with anything after months of surveillance.

We know from Strzok's text messages that the FBI knew early on that there was no "there" there re Russian collusion and they would need to find some other way to prevent Donald Trump from becoming President.

We know from McCabe's testimony to congressional intelligence committees that the FISA warrant to spy on Page was based on a mostly phony Russian dossier bought and paid for by the DNC and/or Clinton campaign and a Yahoo Story that quoted from that same dossier. And he said flat out that the FISA judge was not told the source of that dossier, and without it the warrant to spy on Page would not have been issued.

So the more this goes on, the higher to heaven it all smells. And yes, it is beginning to look like all should walk whether or not they actually committed a crime.

HRC was accused, indicted, tried, and convicted by the mob ("lock her up). The same mob has decided that there was no conspiracy with members of Trump&Co and Russian agents.

The evidence is clear Russia fucked with the election. Any American who seeks to stifle or obstruct the investigation anywhere it leads is no patriot.

Yep through the democrats and fbi

 

[jc456]

The reality is that the lies in flynn’s Statements for his security clearance alone would have subjected him to prosecution.

The trumptards are pathetic.

You're the one who's pathetic...You're comparing process crimes to actual corruption, conspiracy, and abuse of power throughout the slimy Obama administration....you people are a joke

"Process Crimes" such as Misprision of a felony and obstruction of justice are felonies. That said, lets consider some material on the issue at hand:

The four people charged so far in Russia investigation

they don't like talking about the fact that Donald's boys are already pleading guilty.

And you don't like to talk about the fact that none of the crimes pled to, or charged have anything to do with trump. In fact, quite the opposite. Most of manoforts crimes were committed when he was working with podesta.

you have no idea what information they turned over in exchange for their pleas. you won't until they testify.

er... manafort was money laundering. and trump played money laundering for fun and profit. manafort was also lobbying for the putin supported Ukraine government.... which is why the only thing Donald ask to be changed in the GOP platform was US policy toward Ukraine.

that's ok by you?

Huh? How do you know any of that

 

[Foxfyre]

They have all been accused, indicted, tried, and convicted in the media. I don't know how anybody could get a fair trial in all this mess, regardless of guilt or lack thereof.

So Papadopoulos and Flynn have both pled guilty of one count of failure to report or getting a date wrong in sworn testimony. In the grand scheme of things, can either be said to be of any great threat to Mom, apple pie, or the American way let alone national security?

Manafort may or may not be a scumbag and/or guilty of something, but he remains under house arrest on his own recognizance, so how serious could his crimes, if any, really be?

Carter Page, the central figure in the now much debated FISA warrant that gave the FBI/State Department license to spy on the Trump campaign has yet to be charged with anything after months of surveillance.

We know from Strzok's text messages that the FBI knew early on that there was no "there" there re Russian collusion and they would need to find some other way to prevent Donald Trump from becoming President.

We know from McCabe's testimony to congressional intelligence committees that the FISA warrant to spy on Page was based on a mostly phony Russian dossier bought and paid for by the DNC and/or Clinton campaign and a Yahoo Story that quoted from that same dossier. And he said flat out that the FISA judge was not told the source of that dossier, and without it the warrant to spy on Page would not have been issued.

So the more this goes on, the higher to heaven it all smells. And yes, it is beginning to look like all should walk whether or not they actually committed a crime.

The part I highlighted is not true. No warrant was issued to spy on the Trump campaign. And thus, your narrative crumbles.

Dream on. Nobody will convince me or any reasonable person that the Obama State Dept. or the FBI would have gone to such extremes to commit fraud to spy on Carter Page if he was not with the Trump campaign. Thus spying on Carter by default would include access to the Trump campaign.

Dream on. Nobody will convince me or any reasonable person that the Obama State Dept. or the FBI would have gone to such extremes to commit fraud to spy on Carter Page if he was not with the Trump campaign. Thus spying on Carter by default would include access to the Trump campaign.

Even if he had been under surveillance since 2013?

You need to ask yourself why Trump hired such a damaged character to begin with. No doubt even a third rate vetting process would have labelled him problematic at best.

You know what would be helpful? If you, Fawn and others would identify the foreign intelligence services you work for, North Korea, Libya, Iran, etc.


So now we are in a "what did the FISA court know, and when did they know it" situation.

{
The court that approved surveillance of a former campaign adviser to President Trump was aware that some of the information underpinning the warrant request was paid for by a political entity, although the application did not specifically name the Democratic National Committee or the Hillary Clinton presidential campaign, according to two U.S. officials familiar with the matter.

A now-declassified Republican memo alleged that the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court was duped into approving the wiretap request by a politicized FBI and Justice Department. The memo was written by House Intelligence Committee Republicans and alleged a “troubling breakdown of legal processes” flowing from the government’s wiretapping of former Trump aide Carter Page.}

Did The FISA Court Know Warrant Request Was Based On Information Paid For By The Clinton Team?

So the FISA judge issued a warrant based on dirt the Clinton campaign paid Russia to create?

The level of corruption here is astounding.

This kind of corruption may be common in Tehran or whatever shit hole you come from, but for Americans this is outrageous.

Watergate was a game of tiddlywinks in comparison with this.

OMG. There was no need to "dupe" anyone as Page already had a years long history of being a foreign agent.

No he didn't. He had years long history of doing business with Russians, He has never been charged with anything. And because FISA warrants are for 90 days and have to be reauthorized in order for the government to legally spy on somebody or something, and because previous FISA warrants had turned up absolutely nothing on Page, they had not even slight probable cause to continue spying on him.

Carter Page's FISA warrant had run out, and according to what is reported of FBI Deputy Director Andrew McCabe's testimony--and that WILL BE ON THE RECORD though parts of it may still be classified--the previous warrants had not uncovered anything suspicious on Page and they did not have anything to justify reauthorization for a new FISA warrant. Except for what they knew was a mostly phony Russian dossier and what they knew was a flawed Yahoo news story that recited that dossier.

There is no way in hell that they would have so corrupted themselves to get that warrant had Carter Page not been named as a Trump advisor. Thus a warrant that they knew wouldn't yield anything re Page gave them by default a license to spy on the campaign.

Here is the Chicago Tribune news report before the scandal of the Russian dossier, commissioned and paid for by the DNC and the Clinton campaign, broke. It is a very different narrative via James Comey, former FBI director's testimony, as Comey made no mention of the Russian dossier it was later determined they used to obtain the last FISA warrant.

FBI obtained FISA warrant to monitor former Trump adviser Carter Page

 

[Wry Catcher]

Oh, and that’s a lie too. Even Nunes’ memo says other evidence was offered to obtain the warrant. It wasn’t just from the dossier.

There wasn't enough without it.

How do you know? Source missing & link missing.

Both Nunes and Trey Gowdy have said that.

Gowdy has also said that the memo did nothing to establish Mueller's investigation into the Russian probe was derailed. Clearly the memo was cherry picked, and its intent can only be determined to be one thing, to obstruct the Mueller investigation and to discredit the FBI and the Justice Dept.

The data points are true, that's not controversial. Instead of complaining about cherry picking, let's deal with those points and if other points come out, we'll deal with them, but let's not throw up a smoke screen because we don't like what's come out.

The truth is becoming obvious. These agencies have been weoponized, and that's a real problem.

Many of those Trump nominated and the Republican Senate approved as Secretaries were weaponized, i.e. not the best and the brightest by far, and some who really are crooked, and/or most not suited for the job.

 

[Foxfyre]

Ah haaaa! What do we have here?

Easy....Mueller is not satisfied with Flynn's cooperation, and is thus giving him a bit more time, since the sentence Flynn gets will depend on his cooperation.

You don't find it curious that Mueller announced the suspension of Flynn's sentencing almost immediately after it was announced that the Nunes memo would be released? Do you think there is any reason to believe that might be due to something other than pure coincidence?

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Ah haaaa! What do we have here?

Easy....Mueller is not satisfied with Flynn's cooperation, and is thus giving him a bit more time, since the sentence Flynn gets will depend on his cooperation.

You don't find it curious that Mueller announced the suspension of Flynn's sentencing almost immediately after it was announced that the Nunes memo would be released? Do you think there is any reason to believe that might be due to something other than pure coincidence?

You are not doing this correctly. If you are suggesting it is not coincidence, then YOU need to explain both why it is not and the evidence for that claim. You cant suggest these things then put the burden on me to explain them away.

 

[Foxfyre]

Ah haaaa! What do we have here?

Easy....Mueller is not satisfied with Flynn's cooperation, and is thus giving him a bit more time, since the sentence Flynn gets will depend on his cooperation.

You don't find it curious that Mueller announced the suspension of Flynn's sentencing almost immediately after it was announced that the Nunes memo would be released? Do you think there is any reason to believe that might be due to something other than pure coincidence?

You are not doing this correctly. If you are suggesting it is not coincidence, then YOU need to explain both why it is not and the evidence for that claim. You cant suggest these things then put the burden on me to explain them away.

I have been explaining why it was likely not coincidence in some detail in this thread. I put no burden on you at all other than to ask you a question that you could have answered with a simple yes or no. The question was prompted by your stated explanation for the Flynn sentencing suspension for which you offered no evidence whatsoever. I have been providing evidence for my arguments in this thread. I am not obligated to re-post every link I have posted to support my arguments when the discussion continues in subsequent posts.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Ah haaaa! What do we have here?

Easy....Mueller is not satisfied with Flynn's cooperation, and is thus giving him a bit more time, since the sentence Flynn gets will depend on his cooperation.

You don't find it curious that Mueller announced the suspension of Flynn's sentencing almost immediately after it was announced that the Nunes memo would be released? Do you think there is any reason to believe that might be due to something other than pure coincidence?

You are not doing this correctly. If you are suggesting it is not coincidence, then YOU need to explain both why it is not and the evidence for that claim. You cant suggest these things then put the burden on me to explain them away.

I have been explaining why it was likely not coincidence in some detail in this thread. I put no burden on you at all other than to question your stated explanation for the suspension for which you offered no evidence whatsoever. I have been providing evidence for my arguments in this thread. I am not obligated to re-post every link I have posted to support my arguments when the discussion continues.

Ah haaaa! What do we have here?

Easy....Mueller is not satisfied with Flynn's cooperation, and is thus giving him a bit more time, since the sentence Flynn gets will depend on his cooperation.

You don't find it curious that Mueller announced the suspension of Flynn's sentencing almost immediately after it was announced that the Nunes memo would be released? Do you think there is any reason to believe that might be due to something other than pure coincidence?

You are not doing this correctly. If you are suggesting it is not coincidence, then YOU need to explain both why it is not and the evidence for that claim. You cant suggest these things then put the burden on me to explain them away.

I have been explaining why it was likely not coincidence in some detail in this thread. I put no burden on you at all other than to question your stated explanation for the suspension for which you offered no evidence whatsoever. I have been providing evidence for my arguments in this thread. I am not obligated to re-post every link I have posted to support my arguments when the discussion continues.

Sorry, but I did not see any reason or evidence to support the idea that the two are related.

My evidence? For one, he already did the same thing with Papadapolous's sentencing prior to the Nunes memo being released. Second, these and other moves taken in concert demonstrate pretty clearly that Mueller's invetigation will stretch at least into the spring.

And there you have it. See how much easier it was for me to support my claim than it is for you?

 

[hadit]

There wasn't enough without it.

How do you know? Source missing & link missing.

Both Nunes and Trey Gowdy have said that.

Gowdy has also said that the memo did nothing to establish Mueller's investigation into the Russian probe was derailed. Clearly the memo was cherry picked, and its intent can only be determined to be one thing, to obstruct the Mueller investigation and to discredit the FBI and the Justice Dept.

The data points are true, that's not controversial. Instead of complaining about cherry picking, let's deal with those points and if other points come out, we'll deal with them, but let's not throw up a smoke screen because we don't like what's come out.

The truth is becoming obvious. These agencies have been weoponized, and that's a real problem.

Many of those Trump nominated and the Republican Senate approved as Secretaries were weaponized, i.e. not the best and the brightest by far, and some who really are crooked, and/or most not suited for the job.

Is that a reason to ignore what they did?

 

[Foxfyre]

Ah haaaa! What do we have here?

Easy....Mueller is not satisfied with Flynn's cooperation, and is thus giving him a bit more time, since the sentence Flynn gets will depend on his cooperation.

You don't find it curious that Mueller announced the suspension of Flynn's sentencing almost immediately after it was announced that the Nunes memo would be released? Do you think there is any reason to believe that might be due to something other than pure coincidence?

You are not doing this correctly. If you are suggesting it is not coincidence, then YOU need to explain both why it is not and the evidence for that claim. You cant suggest these things then put the burden on me to explain them away.

I have been explaining why it was likely not coincidence in some detail in this thread. I put no burden on you at all other than to question your stated explanation for the suspension for which you offered no evidence whatsoever. I have been providing evidence for my arguments in this thread. I am not obligated to re-post every link I have posted to support my arguments when the discussion continues.

Ah haaaa! What do we have here?

Easy....Mueller is not satisfied with Flynn's cooperation, and is thus giving him a bit more time, since the sentence Flynn gets will depend on his cooperation.

You don't find it curious that Mueller announced the suspension of Flynn's sentencing almost immediately after it was announced that the Nunes memo would be released? Do you think there is any reason to believe that might be due to something other than pure coincidence?

You are not doing this correctly. If you are suggesting it is not coincidence, then YOU need to explain both why it is not and the evidence for that claim. You cant suggest these things then put the burden on me to explain them away.

I have been explaining why it was likely not coincidence in some detail in this thread. I put no burden on you at all other than to question your stated explanation for the suspension for which you offered no evidence whatsoever. I have been providing evidence for my arguments in this thread. I am not obligated to re-post every link I have posted to support my arguments when the discussion continues.

Sorry, but I did not see any reason or evidence to support the idea that the two are related.

My evidence? For one, he already did the same thing with Papadapolous's sentencing prior to the Nunes memo being released. Second, these and other moves taken in concert demonstrate pretty clearly that Mueller's invetigation will stretch at least into the spring.

And there you have it. See how much easier it was for me to support my claim than it is for you?

So you won't answer my question and continue to state things as fact without supporting those facts with anything. Tsk. Tsk. Cut a lot of classes in debate class did you?

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

So you won't answer my question

Actually, you asked two questions. You asked me if I found the timing curious, abd you asked me if I felt it was just coincidence. My claims amd arguments made the answer to both questions very clear. But just for you, I will restate them: no and yes.

The only facts I presented were the prior delay of the sentencing of papadapolous and the other measures ( like, rebuffing the admistrations efforts to expedite the end of his investigation) to support the idea that not only is the flynn request just coincidence, but that the investigation will drag into the spring.

. I laid out my reasoning very simply and clearly. If you care about "debate", then have at my reasoning.

 

[Foxfyre]

So you won't answer my question

Actually, you asked two questions. You asked me if I found the timing curious, abd you asked me if I felt it was just coincidence. My claims amd arguments made the answer to both questions very clear. But just for you, I will restate them: no and yes.

The only facts I presented were the prior delay of the sentencing of papadapolous and the other measures ( like, rebuffing the admistrations efforts to expedite the end of his investigation) to support the idea that not only is the flynn request just coincidence, but that the investigation will drag into the spring.

. I laid out my reasoning very simply and clearly. If you care about "debate", then have at my reasoning.

When you provide something for your reasoning other than you want to believe it, I will do so. Until then, I will simply wish you a pleasant day.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

When you provide something for your reasoning other than you want to believe it

I did. Here it is again:

1) in a similar fashion, Papadapolous's sentencing was delayed before the Nunes memo announcement. This lends credence to the idea that the timing of the Flynn announcement is coincidence.

2) The Mueller team has made it evident that the investigation will continue through at least the spring. They are utilizing the cooperation of both Flynn and Papadapolous. This lends credence to the idea that Mueller is not finished collecting information from them. As their sentences are dependent on their cooperation, it would make sense not to set those sentences yet.

And there you have it. Very clear. Go on big guy, display your amazing debate skills. Have at it!

 

[Foxfyre]

When you provide something for your reasoning other than you want to believe it

I did. Here it is again:

1) in a similar fashion, Papadapolous's sentencing was delayed before the Nunes memo announcement. This lends credence to the idea that the timing of the Flynn announcement is coincidence.

2) The Mueller team has made it evident that the investigation will continue through at least the spring. They are utilizing the cooperation of both Flynn and Papadapolous. This lends credence to the idea that Mueller is not finished collecting information from them. As their sentences are dependent on their cooperation, it would make sense not to set those sentences yet.

And there you have it. Very clear. Go on big guy, display your amazing debate skills. Have at it!

There we have a lot of facts you are reciting without providing any evidence whatsoever for them.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

There we have a lot of facts you are reciting without providing any evidence whatsoever for them.

Such as? Good grief man, use your big boy words, dont make me ask.

 

[Faun]

You still can't be honest. No surprise there. You progressives are all a bunch of unethical scumbags. Time will tell which of us is correct, so be patient.

My honesty is intact. Your character is tattered.

You claim Flynn was caught lying due to an illegal warrant; when in fact, the warrant you refer to as illegal, was the eavesdrop on Carter Page and has nothing to do with Michael Flynn getting caught lying.

You lack the character to simply admit you’re wrong. And sadly from r you, lashing out at me does nothing to redeem your character.

A very well stated point. To which I would only add a thought on the highlighted portion.

Carter Page, the central figure in the now much debated FISA warrant that gave the FBI/State Department license to spy on the Trump campaign has yet to be charged with anything after months of surveillance.

He has not yet been charged, no doubt because he is a very useful idiot. Not only to the FBI but the Russians as well. That means as long as the Russians keep him in play and we can continue to glean insights into those Russian plays, Page remains an asset.

The only real question that should be asked is why Trump chose to employ such a tarnished character. No doubt it was because Page and his contacts gave them access where they needed it. Not unlike Manafort or Papadrunkoulos.

His FISA warrant had run out and there was insufficient evidence to reauthorize it except for the contents of that Russian dossier as testified under oath by McCabe. The dossier connected Page to the Trump campaign and administration.

Oh, and that’s a lie too. Even Nunes’ memo says other evidence was offered to obtain the warrant. It wasn’t just from the dossier.

There wasn't enough without it.

Not true according to Democrats. And again, Page was under surveillance for years. All they needed to show was progress was being made on the target to get the warrant renewed.

 

[Faun]

A very well stated point. To which I would only add a thought on the highlighted portion.

He has not yet been charged, no doubt because he is a very useful idiot. Not only to the FBI but the Russians as well. That means as long as the Russians keep him in play and we can continue to glean insights into those Russian plays, Page remains an asset.

The only real question that should be asked is why Trump chose to employ such a tarnished character. No doubt it was because Page and his contacts gave them access where they needed it. Not unlike Manafort or Papadrunkoulos.

His FISA warrant had run out and there was insufficient evidence to reauthorize it except for the contents of that Russian dossier as testified under oath by McCabe. The dossier connected Page to the Trump campaign and administration.

Oh, and that’s a lie too. Even Nunes’ memo says other evidence was offered to obtain the warrant. It wasn’t just from the dossier.

There wasn't enough without it.

How do you know? Source missing & link missing.

Both Nunes and Trey Gowdy have said that.

So? Democrats have said that's not true.