BREAKING: Mass school shooting multiple victims

[TyroneSlothrop]

Every time that we have a mass gun slaughter it simply means one thing...LET FREEDOM RING...waaaaaaaaaa hahahahahahahahahahah

 

[Missourian]

Could somebody please explain to me the normal procedure to buy a gun? Also does each State have a gun register so that all owners are on a central database?

Very few of the states require registration.
There are two ways to buy a gun:
-Go to a dealer, pick it out, undergo a background check, pay for the gun, take the gun home.
-Go to a private individual, pay for the gun, take it home.

If gun owners were licensed the private sale would allow for the seller to verity the buyer was licensed; and, a license could be immediately suspended if the licensee were to be arrested for crimes of violence, DUI for drugs or alcohol, detained civilly as a danger to him or her self or others.

Here is the problem with private sales. I see you have a gun for sale. Me and a couple of buddies come to your house access the situation, shoot you dead, and take your guns. Now there are more guns on the street and no one knows who has them.

I buy guns off of Armslist all the time...face to face.

Never once been to anyone's house, or they to mine.

 

[Asclepias]

Could somebody please explain to me the normal procedure to buy a gun? Also does each State have a gun register so that all owners are on a central database?

Very few of the states require registration.
There are two ways to buy a gun:
-Go to a dealer, pick it out, undergo a background check, pay for the gun, take the gun home.
-Go to a private individual, pay for the gun, take it home.

If gun owners were licensed the private sale would allow for the seller to verity the buyer was licensed; and, a license could be immediately suspended if the licensee were to be arrested for crimes of violence, DUI for drugs or alcohol, detained civilly as a danger to him or her self or others.

Here is the problem with private sales. I see you have a gun for sale. Me and a couple of buddies come to your house access the situation, shoot you dead, and take your guns. Now there are more guns on the street and no one knows who has them.

I buy guns off of Armslist all the time...face to face.

Never once been to anyone's house, or they to mine.

Are you saying you cant get shot face to face and your gun taken or were you just pointing out you never went to anyones house?

 

[nicolondon]

Ok folks I think I've said my bit. Please don't take my criticisms of your gun laws as being anti-American. I've been over many times and love your country, I was inspired to come because as a kid I loved Starsky and Hutch and loved skyscrapers. Coming over the Brooklyn Bridge at night to see the New York skyline was one of the most thrilling experiences of my life. Anyway I digress, thanks for the replies and debate. I'll see whats happening in those race for next President forums, Trump supporters be warned!!! lol Go Hillary! did you expect anything else from someone in Europe!

 

[M14 Shooter]

What I seem to read a lot about is excuses not to do something rather than finding some common ground, a lot of responsible gun owners when polled think something should be done. You simply can't arm every nursery, school, university, security people can't man every corridor and you can't have everyone walking around with a gun. Do Americans want to live in that type of society?

Here's the thing.
Common ground - that is, compromise- requires that both sides give something to get what they want.
The side that wants more gun control has nothing to offer to gun owners in exchange for what they to the gun owners to give up.
Thus, compromise -- that is, common ground - is impossible,.

Surely gun owners are human like the rest of us! If they could do something to help shouldn't they, I'm sure gun owners see these massacres and feel for the families.

There's no sound reason for gun owners to acquiesce to those that want more gun control because the additional gun control they want - not to mention the gun controls in place - will do nothing to prevent gun-related violence.

In terms of gun owners giving up something. Well no ones taking their gun away so what are they giving up

Every gun control law that affects only the law abiding -- background checks, registration, licenses, etc - creates a imitation on the rights of the law abiding. In our country, rights cannot be limited unless the state can show a compelling need to do so and a effective, limited means to meet that need. None of the additional restrictions meet that test, and so there's no sound reason gun owners should allow them.

I hear a lot about freedom, shouldn't Americans have the freedom to go to a cinema, school etc without fear of being murdered.

There is no freedom from fear.
Freedom itself, after all is a scary thing.

all I see is a lot of hysteria from the NRA screaming that Obama is after your guns,

President Obama openly states that he wants to ban an assortment of rifles, handguns and shotguns. There is no false concern here.

How about the rights of innocent people to not be murdered.

You have the right to life.
No law will prevent someone who wants to illegally deprive you of that right from doing so.

Thanks for answering my points. I appreciate this type of debate where those pro-guns argue in a reasoned manner.

My pleasure.

Personally IMO the 2nd Am right was not designed to afford Americans any gun they wanted or the total freedom in where to buy that weapon or where to carry it.

According to our law...
The Second Amendment protects an individual right to possess a firearm unconnected with service in a militia, and to use that arm for traditionally lawful purposes, such as self-defense within the home; this right does not extend to the ownership and use of "dangerous.and unusual" weapons. The protection afford by the 2nd is from "infringement", which covers a large variety of actions that fall far short of simple prohibition.

And so, you personal interpretation, while yours, is not in agreement with the law.

Your State legislatures have expanded gun rights and widened the goal posts above and beyond that original right.

The "original right" was for ordinary citizens to have uninfringed access to weapons of war, so that, in addition protecting themselves their families and their belongings, they might be able to effectively assist and/or resist the army.
No state has expanded this right.

Only part of the problem is the 2nd Am, the main issue is borne out from a political discourse and lobby that normalize the expectations of citizens re their gun rights. Logically speaking each State could bring about laws that prohibit anything but a simple handgun able to fire 6 bullets, exceptions could be made for farmers, hunters. That would still not go against the 2nd Am.

There's no logic in this, as 'arms" as the term used and understood in the amendment covers a far broader range of weapons.

Further, there's no merit to the arguments, bordering on the frivolous, that only those arms in existence in the 18th century are protected by the Second Amendment - we do not interpret constitutional rights that way. Just as the First Amendment protects modern forms of communications,, and the Fourth Amendment applies to modern forms of search, , the Second Amendment extends, prima facie,to all instruments that constitute bearable arms, even those that were not in existence at the time of the founding.

The problem is guns are big business in the USA, they make big profits. The normalization of gun ownership from an early age is a problem because culturally this is difficult to break. Its not possible to re-write American history, whats done is done however its impossible to keep ignoring the terrible rates of homicide by gun.

Terrible rates?
There are ~300,000,000 gun in the US.
For every gun used to murder someone, >35600 were not -- a rate of 0.0027%

 

[Missourian]

Well, personally, I haven't sold any guns to private individuals. I suppose I could get shot and have my money taken, but...I know they are armed and they at least suspect that I am armed. Plus, I usually meet folks at the Bass Pro in Springfield...the antithesis of the Gun-Free-Zone.

That being said...the reason I don't sell guns to private parties is that I don't know them, and I cannot just call in and do a background check.

So the question I have is...why not?

Why not make the system accessible to private individuals?

 

[Derideo_Te]

Do gun control laws lessen the frequency of mass shootings??? Have any of these measures been effective whatsoever in preventing gun homicides? That is an important question that you need to ask yourself. If the answer is no, then obviously it is NOT the answer to the problem. Of course we are always going to have whackos around. There always have been whackos, but we have a LOT more of them today than ever before because there are more people living in the US than ever before. Why not look at Hollywood which glorifies violence and gore and desensitizes us? Perhaps THAT is the culprit because guns have ALWAYS been a part of American culture.

It worked in Australia.

We are not Australia, and I don't care about Australia, TBH. We have rights that we have since WAY before you were born. You aren't fixing the problem by focusing on the tool. That is just common sense. If someone wants to kill people, they will just use another tool to accomplish that goal.

Why do you fallaciously assume that I am "focusing on the tool"?

The problem with the "tool" is that it provides the individual with the ability to become a mass murderer.

But the solution doesn't lie solely with the "tool".

Instead it lies in understanding that the way we are operating as a society today is wrong.

Back when Clinton was president we had a booming economy and very low unemployment. There was a lot of money to be made for those with jobs that paid living wages with benefits. Crime was at an all time low.

Contrast that with today where people are stressed out because their incomes are stagnating and/or declining and the future is uncertain. The morons in Congress want to make things even worse by shutting down the government and taking away healthcare from the poor. They oppose raising the minimum wage and want to give taxcuts to the wealthy so that they can export even more jobs overseas.

That is insane and that insanity is manifesting itself in these mass shootings.

If you want to stop this madness then it is time to throw out the bums in Congress who are not interested in the welfare of We the People.

The "tools" that are the problem are the ones in Congress who hate America in all her diversity and instead want to transform it into a 3rd world nation where the wealthy have everything and crime is rampant amongst everyone else.

 

[Asclepias]

Well, personally, I haven't sold any guns to private individuals. I suppose I could get shot and have my money taken, but...I know they are armed and they at least suspect that I am armed. Plus, I usually meet folks at the Bass Pro in Springfield...the antithesis of the Gun-Free-Zone.

That being said...the reason I don't sell guns to private parties is that I don't know them, and I cannot just call in and do a background check.

So the question I have is...why not?

Why not make the system accessible to private individuals?

Because private individuals have this tendency to do dumb things like get robbed or circumvent laws.

 

[TyroneSlothrop]

Ruh-Roh Panic in Las Vegas which had set up 14 days as the over and under for next shootings ...Ruh Roh

Schools are on lockdown after a report of a person with a gun at El Paso Community College Friday afternoon. Lockdowns began at Canutillo High, Northwest Early College High, and Canutillo Central Office at about 12:10 p.m. after the report came in, ... (Talking Points Memo)

 

[DigitalDrifter]

Do gun control laws lessen the frequency of mass shootings??? Have any of these measures been effective whatsoever in preventing gun homicides? That is an important question that you need to ask yourself. If the answer is no, then obviously it is NOT the answer to the problem. Of course we are always going to have whackos around. There always have been whackos, but we have a LOT more of them today than ever before because there are more people living in the US than ever before. Why not look at Hollywood which glorifies violence and gore and desensitizes us? Perhaps THAT is the culprit because guns have ALWAYS been a part of American culture.

It worked in Australia.

We're not going to let you people have a gun round up here.

 

[DigitalDrifter]

I'd like to thank everyone who answered my question. Its just very confusing and really difficult for us in the UK to understand the gun situation in America.

It's difficult for us in the U.S. to understand why you guys throughout Europe are committing cultural suicide by allowing yourselves to be overran by Muslims.

 

[2aguy]

I'd like to thank everyone who answered my question. Its just very confusing and really difficult for us in the UK to understand the gun situation in America.

It's difficult for us in the U.S. to understand why you guys throughout Europe are committing cultural suicide by allowing yourselves to be overran by Muslims.

And if they think we have gun problems…wait till the jihadis go operational…..like the ones in France, Belgium, Denmark, and on that train…..and they use fully automatic rifles as a preference…and grenades...

 

[Derideo_Te]

Do gun control laws lessen the frequency of mass shootings??? Have any of these measures been effective whatsoever in preventing gun homicides? That is an important question that you need to ask yourself. If the answer is no, then obviously it is NOT the answer to the problem. Of course we are always going to have whackos around. There always have been whackos, but we have a LOT more of them today than ever before because there are more people living in the US than ever before. Why not look at Hollywood which glorifies violence and gore and desensitizes us? Perhaps THAT is the culprit because guns have ALWAYS been a part of American culture.

It worked in Australia.

We're not going to let you people have a gun round up here.

In which case the blood of innocents is on your head and hands, and on those of your fellow gun fetishists, since you aren't prepared to even consider any reasonable measures at all to stem the slaughter.

 

[DigitalDrifter]

I'd like to thank everyone who answered my question. Its just very confusing and really difficult for us in the UK to understand the gun situation in America.

I have a buddy that used to live in the UK but now resides in Spain and he is bewildered. We talked about this at length this morning.

Yes bewildered is where I'm at. This massacre got a lot of attention on our news. Its just so awful for those poor families. What really hit home though was the Sandy Hook massacre of those children. How can people turn a blind eye, surely as a nation America has to try everything possible that still allows people their 2nd Am right but marries that with sensible regulations. You of course can never totally eradicate these things from happening but you have to try.

Well you have several levels of retardation going on here. Some are just plain selfish. Others are convinced the NWO is imminent. The nuttiest of the bunch are convinced that Sandy Hook was staged and didnt really happen. We have a few people on this forum that probably think it didnt really happen.

How many people nationwide believe Sandy Hook was some sort of staged event ?
I mean really, for gods sake it's a pathetically insignificant #.

 

[Asclepias]

I'd like to thank everyone who answered my question. Its just very confusing and really difficult for us in the UK to understand the gun situation in America.

I have a buddy that used to live in the UK but now resides in Spain and he is bewildered. We talked about this at length this morning.

Yes bewildered is where I'm at. This massacre got a lot of attention on our news. Its just so awful for those poor families. What really hit home though was the Sandy Hook massacre of those children. How can people turn a blind eye, surely as a nation America has to try everything possible that still allows people their 2nd Am right but marries that with sensible regulations. You of course can never totally eradicate these things from happening but you have to try.

Well you have several levels of retardation going on here. Some are just plain selfish. Others are convinced the NWO is imminent. The nuttiest of the bunch are convinced that Sandy Hook was staged and didnt really happen. We have a few people on this forum that probably think it didnt really happen.

How many people nationwide believe Sandy Hook was some sort of staged event ?
I mean really, for gods sake it's a pathetically insignificant #.

I dont get what that has to do with my point? If you want to know the numbers why dont you fund a poll?

 

[2aguy]

Well, personally, I haven't sold any guns to private individuals. I suppose I could get shot and have my money taken, but...I know they are armed and they at least suspect that I am armed. Plus, I usually meet folks at the Bass Pro in Springfield...the antithesis of the Gun-Free-Zone.

That being said...the reason I don't sell guns to private parties is that I don't know them, and I cannot just call in and do a background check.

So the question I have is...why not?

Why not make the system accessible to private individuals?

Can't you get the police to do it….what about your local gun store? And the problem with making it mandatory, besides it not working in the first place…..gun stores would then have to be ordered to do them and they would charge a fee for it…thus putting a tax on exercising a Right. And what if you don't live near a gun store…..then you have to drag your buyer to the gun store that might me 3 hours away….just to sell a gun, a legal product.

The buyer knows if they can buy the gun….and if they are a felon they can already be sent to jail if they are caught buying the gun.

 

[2aguy]

Ruh-Roh Panic in Las Vegas which had set up 14 days as the over and under for next shootings ...Ruh Roh

Schools are on lockdown after a report of a person with a gun at El Paso Community College Friday afternoon. Lockdowns began at Canutillo High, Northwest Early College High, and Canutillo Central Office at about 12:10 p.m. after the report came in, ... (Talking Points Memo)

That means people are calling in crank calls…or there are people copy catting because of the media coverage of the last one…want these stop….stop giving them fame….

 

[M14 Shooter]

[
How many people nationwide believe Sandy Hook was some sort of staged event ?
I mean really, for gods sake it's a pathetically insignificant #.

2014:
1467 murders committed with bladed weapons of all kinds
435 murders with blunt weapons if all kinds
249 murders committed with rifles of all kinds

Anti-gun loon reaction: Ban 'assault weapons'!

 

[2aguy]

Do gun control laws lessen the frequency of mass shootings??? Have any of these measures been effective whatsoever in preventing gun homicides? That is an important question that you need to ask yourself. If the answer is no, then obviously it is NOT the answer to the problem. Of course we are always going to have whackos around. There always have been whackos, but we have a LOT more of them today than ever before because there are more people living in the US than ever before. Why not look at Hollywood which glorifies violence and gore and desensitizes us? Perhaps THAT is the culprit because guns have ALWAYS been a part of American culture.

It worked in Australia.

We are not Australia, and I don't care about Australia, TBH. We have rights that we have since WAY before you were born. You aren't fixing the problem by focusing on the tool. That is just common sense. If someone wants to kill people, they will just use another tool to accomplish that goal.

Why do you fallaciously assume that I am "focusing on the tool"?

The problem with the "tool" is that it provides the individual with the ability to become a mass murderer.

But the solution doesn't lie solely with the "tool".

Instead it lies in understanding that the way we are operating as a society today is wrong.

Back when Clinton was president we had a booming economy and very low unemployment. There was a lot of money to be made for those with jobs that paid living wages with benefits. Crime was at an all time low.

Contrast that with today where people are stressed out because their incomes are stagnating and/or declining and the future is uncertain. The morons in Congress want to make things even worse by shutting down the government and taking away healthcare from the poor. They oppose raising the minimum wage and want to give taxcuts to the wealthy so that they can export even more jobs overseas.

That is insane and that insanity is manifesting itself in these mass shootings.

If you want to stop this madness then it is time to throw out the bums in Congress who are not interested in the welfare of We the People.

The "tools" that are the problem are the ones in Congress who hate America in all her diversity and instead want to transform it into a 3rd world nation where the wealthy have everything and crime is rampant amongst everyone else.

Yes…it is a good thing the Republicans gained control of congress and forced clinton to balance the budget….and we also had the tech bubble…..and then clinton wrecked it with his tax increases...

 

[TyroneSlothrop]

It's difficult for us in the U.S. to understand why you guys throughout Europe are committing cultural suicide by allowing yourselves to be overran by Muslims.

We got our own problem with Right wing Militia Oath keeping Sovereign Citizens Open Carry bag of Filberts Neo Nazi Confederates of the South