Bravo To The Supreme Court - Colleges Must Allow Military Recruiters

[kurtsprincess]

I'd bet...I'd just BET somebody has a GREATER chance of being murdered, or murdering another if they stay in the slums, rather than joining the Military. I bet I'm right.

I won't take that bet dmp because I know you are right.

Which is more senseless.........dying while serving your country, or dying because you 'dissed' someone, or were wearing the wrong color, or listening to the wrong music, or had the wrong tattoo, etc., etc.?

Gangs are at war 24/7 and gang members don't get to go to college after they've decided to get out.

 

[kurtsprincess]

The difference of opinion regarding the military, though, will arise over how it's used and where. As I feel that my freedom is not being protected by those in Iraq right now, I'm sure you believe that yours is.

And this is why you think Recruiters are slimy? Because you don't agree with the war in Iraq? Regardless of whether I think those in Iraq are protecting my freedom does not equate into disrepecting those in the military.

I'm not here to fight with anyone personally and there is a difference between disagreeing and questioning the character of a person who you do not even know.

Is this not what you were doing by calling Recruiters "slimy"; people you "do not even know"?

So, while we may disagree and while you may hate me, think that I'm an idiot, unpatriotic, the devil, or any other characterisitc you'd like to associate with me, I'd appreciate it if you could stick to the subject and not make a point about who I am.

I just think you are ill-informed, which is not a character trait; it's just a choice you've made.

 

[kurtsprincess]

Is the price of death worth it?

Yes..........because living in abject poverty is a slow death.......of the spirit.

 

[Annie]

"silver-spoon fed ass?" That is far from the truth my friend. I've worked for every penny I have and I will continue to work my ass off to pay for a college education that will cost me my liver. That's called hard work and being humble. I didn't come from the projects, but you could say I barely made middle class. So please, spare me your arrogant assumptions.

And you can't tell me that they don't flock to poor neighborhoods. True, they'd take any rich kid if he entered, but they know that those in poverty stricken areas will be easier to convince. Going to the military and risking your life shouldn't be a decision that you have to make on making ends meet and getting an education-- it should be a decision based on if you believe it is just. And preying on those kids is quite unethical because they are using poverty to their advantage.

And Kathianne-- I didn't point out a specific military recruiter; it was a generalization. Therefore, I did not attack anybody personally in this forum.

I don't think that the high school my children attended was missed by recruiters, I wrote about some of that back a couple years ago. Here's the demographics from 2000:


http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/17/1729756.html

Two of their friends are attending or have graduated from West Point, one at Annapolis. 6 of their friends just enlisted after high school, several are contemplating enlisting after college. From what I've read, this would be inline with the demographics the military has been putting out regarding recruitment along socioeconomic lines, (obviously my own children did not know ALL that may have joined). It's not the Vietnam era military anymore.

 

[dmp]

I won't take that bet dmp because I know you are right.

Which is more senseless.........dying while serving your country, or dying because you 'dissed' someone, or were wearing the wrong color, or listening to the wrong music, or had the wrong tattoo, etc., etc.?

Gangs are at war 24/7 and gang members don't get to go to college after they've decided to get out.

The whole "They will join the army and die' comment LL made is perhaps the stupidest comment of the year on this board. I can't believe that worthless american REALLY believes it.

So - out of...450K soldiers in the Army alone, 3,000? have died in the last, oh, 10 years? during a conflict.

How many have died in inner cities by how you described above, KP? In the last two years alone?

 

[liberalogic]

I was WRONG to make a generalization about all military recruiters. I apologize for that. I still think that it is unethical to prey on poor cities. People should ONLY join the army if they believe in the cause, not because they have to choose between that and poverty.

And DMP, please cut this "worthless American" stuff out. I have a different vision of America than you do-- but I value my liberties just as much as you. Just make your point without having to degrade me with every sentence you write.

 

[dmp]

I was WRONG to make a generalization about all military recruiters. I apologize for that. I still think that it is unethical to prey on poor cities. People should ONLY join the army if they believe in the cause, not because they have to choose between that and poverty.

And DMP, please cut this "worthless American" stuff out. I have a different vision of America than you do-- but I value my liberties just as much as you. Just make your point without having to degrade me with every sentence you write.

You shouldn't apologize for your generalization, you should just change your attitude. Whether you generalized or not you villify those who put their lives on the line when you use words like 'prey on poor cities'. I was recruited out of a MALL. In the burbs.

I believe you are a worthless american. You want freedom, but you don't have the balls to do what it takes to ensure freedom. I believe you take from society and offer nothing in return.

Maybe taxes. But taxes are over-rated, too.

 

[5stringJeff]

I was WRONG to make a generalization about all military recruiters. I apologize for that. I still think that it is unethical to prey on poor cities. People should ONLY join the army if they believe in the cause, not because they have to choose between that and poverty.

Apology accepted. However, I still think you are seeing the 'recruiter in poor cities' issue wrong. First, it is not wrong to offer someone the ability to rise out of poverty. Second, just like religion, people make the choice to sign up for the military, regardless of their income.

 

[dmp]

Apology accepted. However, I still think you are seeing the 'recruiter in poor cities' issue wrong. First, it is not wrong to offer someone the ability to rise out of poverty. Second, just like religion, people make the choice to sign up for the military, regardless of their income.

it's akin to him hating on doctors because they spend a lot of time with SICK PEOPLE, offering them hope and a chance to better themselves.

 

[liberalogic]

Apology accepted. However, I still think you are seeing the 'recruiter in poor cities' issue wrong. First, it is not wrong to offer someone the ability to rise out of poverty. Second, just like religion, people make the choice to sign up for the military, regardless of their income.

Excellent point...with the exception of a draft, people do sign up...you got me there. I've seen Cindy Sheehan on the news and I've often said to myself, "Wait a second, but where the hell was she when her son VOLUNTEERED to join the military?"

I retract the word "wrong" in place of unethical. I'm not trying to make it illegal, but in my eyes, it is an unethical practice. I don't believe that anyone should be fighting if they don't believe in the cause and I still stick to it that people shouldn't have to sacrifice their moral belief over a war just to escape poverty. We obviously have differing opinions here, but that's okay. While I disagree, I wholeheartedly respect and understand what you are saying.

 

[dmp]

Excellent point...with the exception of a draft, people do sign up...you got me there. I've seen Cindy Sheehan on the news and I've often said to myself, "Wait a second, but where the hell was she when her son VOLUNTEERED to join the military?"

I retract the word "wrong" in place of unethical. I'm not trying to make it illegal, but in my eyes, it is an unethical practice. I don't believe that anyone should be fighting if they don't believe in the cause and I still stick to it that people shouldn't have to sacrifice their moral belief over a war just to escape poverty. We obviously have differing opinions here, but that's okay. While I disagree, I wholeheartedly respect and understand what you are saying.

No soldier there is forced to fight. Every soldier has the option of laying down their equipment and dealing with consequences. There are plenty of programs for conscientious objectors.
What I feel you can't come to grips with is, Most soldiers DO believe in their cause. You're saying the problem is poverty, NOT the military, right? Because you seem to think that most who are poor object to the War on Terror, or Wars in general. Has it crossed your mind that Nobody is FORCED into poverty in this country? Serving in the Military is HONORABLE, and is ONE PATH from poverty. There are other paths from poverty; such as getting of the couch and getting a job. If there are no jobs where they live, move until they find a job.

 

[Hagbard Celine]

It's a BIG LOSS for the anti-war, anti-military, anti-American liberals. Liberals only give lip service to "supporting the military". However they will stab the military in the back any chance they get. They think gays should have the right of free speech to speak out on campus but they actively work to suppress free speech for pro-military people. And you thought liberals were fair and pro-free speech?

Why don't you say that crap about your conservative heroes like George W. Bush who cut VA Benefits while hypocritically acting like he "cares" about military families. What a load of crap.

The libs are the ones who want to END the war. That means bringing the soldiers home healthy to be back with their families. The conservatives are the ones who want to keep the soldiers in harm's way. So stop it with the self-righteous bullcrap. Nobody is buying it.

 

[dmp]

Why don't you say that crap about your conservative heroes like George W. Bush who cut VA Benefits while hypocritically acting like he "cares" about military families. What a load of crap.

The libs are the ones who want to END the war. That means bringing the soldiers home healthy to be back with their families. The conservatives are the ones who want to keep the soldiers in harm's way. So stop it with the self-righteous bullcrap. Nobody is buying it.

:blah2: :blah2: :blah2: :blah2: :blah2:

 

[liberalogic]

No soldier there is forced to fight. Every soldier has the option of laying down their equipment and dealing with consequences. There are plenty of programs for conscientious objectors.
What I feel you can't come to grips with is, Most soldiers DO believe in their cause. You're saying the problem is poverty, NOT the military, right? Because you seem to think that most who are poor object to the War on Terror, or Wars in general. Has it crossed your mind that Nobody is FORCED into poverty in this country? Serving in the Military is HONORABLE, and is ONE PATH from poverty. There are other paths from poverty; such as getting of the couch and getting a job. If there are no jobs where they live, move until they find a job.

I'm saying people shouldn't have to go to the military just to afford a college education because they were born into poverty. If you are poor and you think the war's just, then go. But if you're going just to get by financially, that is not right.

 

[Gunny]

"silver-spoon fed ass?" That is far from the truth my friend. I've worked for every penny I have and I will continue to work my ass off to pay for a college education that will cost me my liver. That's called hard work and being humble. I didn't come from the projects, but you could say I barely made middle class. So please, spare me your arrogant assumptions.

And you can't tell me that they don't flock to poor neighborhoods. True, they'd take any rich kid if he entered, but they know that those in poverty stricken areas will be easier to convince. Going to the military and risking your life shouldn't be a decision that you have to make on making ends meet and getting an education-- it should be a decision based on if you believe it is just. And preying on those kids is quite unethical because they are using poverty to their advantage.

And Kathianne-- I didn't point out a specific military recruiter; it was a generalization. Therefore, I did not attack anybody personally in this forum.

I can tell you they don't flock to poor neighborhoods because they don't. Guess you missed the part where recruiters go by age, no class. It doesn't matter which neighborhood you live in. Your assumption, based on ignorance is incorrect.

More of the poor are willing to take advantage of escape from their social class the military offers. That's simple math. While you attempt to pervert it into something it is not, most people who join see it as an opportunity.

If you don't know what it's like being poor, don't presume to speak for them. You are spouting off an entire opinion based on absolutely NOTHING but your imagination, or some bullshit liberal dogma somebody's brainwashed you with.

 

[Gunny]

I'm saying people shouldn't have to go to the military just to afford a college education because they were born into poverty. If you are poor and you think the war's just, then go. But if you're going just to get by financially, that is not right.

Fine. Are YOU offering to send "the poor" to college at YOUR expense? If yuou aren't shut up. I suppose you just expect the gov't to hand out free tuition to anyone who wants it?

Freakin' socialist. Look what college has done for YOU.

 

[Annie]

I'm saying people shouldn't have to go to the military just to afford a college education because they were born into poverty. If you are poor and you think the war's just, then go. But if you're going just to get by financially, that is not right.

You're right as for college. The poor can get scholarship as well as the lower middle class and above or they can likewise use loans and work. I don't think that the middle class should be able to attend college on 'grants' and highly subsidized loans either. Work to go to college, you don't need the military, though it's one way.

 

[dmp]

I'm saying people shouldn't have to go to the military just to afford a college education because they were born into poverty. If you are poor and you think the war's just, then go. But if you're going just to get by financially, that is not right.

I was on active duty for 6 years, reserves for 2 and I never went to war. The Military is MUCH bigger than the current war. Stop being so short-sighted.

 

[liberalogic]

I can tell you they don't flock to poor neighborhoods because they don't. Guess you missed the part where recruiters go by age, no class. It doesn't matter which neighborhood you live in. Your assumption, based on ignorance is incorrect.

More of the poor are willing to take advantage of escape from their social class the military offers. That's simple math. While you attempt to pervert it into something it is not, most people who join see it as an opportunity.

If you don't know what it's like being poor, don't presume to speak for them. You are spouting off an entire opinion based on absolutely NOTHING but your imagination, or some bullshit liberal dogma somebody's brainwashed you with.

I'm not speaking for anyone...I'm speaking from an objective moral standpoint. And they do flock to poor neigborhoods...I've seen it myself and I know others who have seen it as well. It's not my imagination. But enough of this argument...I'm not going to fight you on this anymore.

 

[manu1959]

Is the price of death worth it?

interesting...i am black poor and live in poverty...not exactly sure how i am paying for college where these recruiters are allowed.....but what the fuck.....

so being that i am poor black attending college and stupid?....i can either go to class.......talk to a recruiter and be tricked into joining a group that is well know as to their job description or i can hang out on a street corner and be tricked into joining a gang dealing drugs and killing.....

trippy