Boy leads protest over deported mother

[Shogun]

"we don't want brown people here"


totally uncalled for. See, this is the kind of shit i'm talking about. This makes you an easy target and nukes your ability to convey a rational arguement.


Perhaps we should claim 100 miles of norther mexico, turn it into the 51st state, and create a spring board for Mexican entry into the US. If Mexico wants to benefit from Nafta while ignoring the very reason America allowed it then they can do without what can become our newest state.

 

[Ruby]

Well if we really want to impact illegal immigration then how bout we end our hostile actions in their nations? How bout we stop the coups, stop supporting militias to enforce our economic policies, stop targeting political dissidents, stop interfering in their rights to self-determination and stay out of their politics. How bout we stop training, paying and arming the death squads that we unleash into their nations to support the puppet dictators we install or support to keep them in poverty? How bout we get rid of NAFTA and CAFTA etc?

http://www.krysstal.com/democracy_whyusa01.html

Year Country

1952 Cuba
1954 Guatemala
1957 Haiti
1960 Ecuador
1963 Dominican Republic
1963 Honduras
1963 Guatemala
1963 Ecuador
1964 Brazil
1964 Bolivia
1970 Bolivia
1972 El Salvador
1973 Chile
1983 Grenada
2002 Venezuela
2004 Haiti

Those are in the latin american region alone.

You cant enforce poverty without feeling some of the consequences that will naturally arise from that poverty.

 

[Ruby]

Here is a bit about Guatemala. Berger is the guy the US likes.

http://english.ohmynews.com/articleview/article_view.asp?no=283491&rel_no=1

Under the new government of President Oscar Berger, a landowner and former businessman, the number of agrarian disputes has increased since he became the leader of this Central American nation.

"Since coming to office in 2004, President Berger has accelerated evictions and ignored the consequent human right abuses. Destruction of homes, violations of due process, even killings, have been carried out with impunity," Zuniga added.

According to governmental figures, 1,052 cases of agrarian disputes remained unsolved in December -- up from the 911 cases in October 2004.

The 60-page document "Guatemala: Land of justice?" describes a series of human rights violations, including denial of access to justice; forced eviction and house demolition without effective consultation; assurance of adequate alternative accommodation; and due process of law.

It also reports excessive violence during evictions; and a pattern of intimidation and threats.

The reason we are always complaining about Venezuela is because they oppose US domination but where the REAL violations and abuses go on we ignore....because they are going along with US domination.

We dont mind human rights abuses, as long as they favor our causes...in fact we AID them.

How about the training we give in our school of americas. It has a pretty nasty list of graduates too!

http://www.derechos.org/soa/index.html

Lets take a look at some of them.

Mexican graduates of the School of the Americas have played a key role in the "low-intensity conflict" in the States of Chiapas, Guerrero, and Oaxaca. At least 13 top military officials involved in the conflict are SOA grads. These are: Col. Harold B. Rambling Torres , Brig. Gen. Carmelo Teran Montero, Col. Jose Luis Ruvalcaba , Brig. Gen. Carlos Demetrio Gaytan Ochoa, Col. German Antonio Bautista , Gaston Menchaca Arias, Miguel Leyva Garcia, Enrique Alonso Garrido, Manuel Garcia Ruiz, Adrian Maldonado Ramirez, Edmundo Elpidio Leyva Galindo, Renato Garcia Gonzalez and Ruben Rivas Peña. (NAP and CAQ). *COL Augusto Moisés García Ochoa 1977, Jungle Operations Suspected drug-trafficking, 1997: Listed by the Mexican news magazine El Proceso as one of the 32 Mexican officers under investigation in drug trafficking.
Lt. Col. Julian Guerrero Barrios 1981, Commando Operations Charged with murder, 1997:On Dec. 26, 1997, La Jornada reported that Guerrero was charged with the murder of Salvador Lopez, one of a dozen young men in Jalisco that were kidnapped and tortured by the Airborne Special Forces Group.
*TCL Rene Herrera Huizar 1980, Operaciones de Patrulla Suspected drug-trafficking, 1997: Listed by the Mexican news magazine El Proceso as one of 32 Mexican military officers under investigation by the Mexican government for suspected ties to drug-trafficking.
*GEN Juan López Ortiz 1959, Infantry Arms
1959, Infantry Tactics Ocosingo Massacre, 1994: Troops under his command massacred five persons in the Ocosingo market; the prisoners' hands were tied behind their backs before the soldiers shot them in the back of the head.
*GEN Luis Montiel López 1962, Counterinsurgency Intimidation of human rights activists, 1992: Forces under Gen. Montiel's falsely accused human rights activists in Chihuahua of "aiding drug traffickers" in an attempt to intimidate them. (CAR)
*GEN Fernan Perez Casanova 1962, CIO Contrainsurrección Suspected drug-trafficking, 1997: Listed by the Mexican news magazine El Proceso as one of 32 officers under investigation by the Mexican government for suspected ties to drug-trafficking.

US tax money helped to train them in our very own school of americas! Thats just a brief example of course.

SO much for the war on terror and the war on drugs huh?

 

[Ruby]

"we don't want brown people here"


totally uncalled for. See, this is the kind of shit i'm talking about. This makes you an easy target and nukes your ability to convey a rational arguement.


Perhaps we should claim 100 miles of norther mexico, turn it into the 51st state, and create a spring board for Mexican entry into the US. If Mexico wants to benefit from Nafta while ignoring the very reason America allowed it then they can do without what can become our newest state.

Mexico dosent benefit from NAFTA!!! American didnt ALLOW it, america AUTHORED it and PUSHED it.

http://www.citizen.org/documents/NAFTA_10_mexico.pdf

A look at the effects of NAFTA on mexico after 10 years.

http://www.citizen.org/trade/articles.cfm?ID=15730#naftaatten

A site that gives a lot of info on NAFTA and all that are affected and who benefits and who suffers.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

What a crook of shit. First of the Army trains military officers and troops from Countries, not terrorists and not "freedom fighters". and your own list doesn't support your claim.

Using your logic since Europe wanted Kerry to be elected in 2004 they were "interfering" in our internal politics. Further every time another Country demands we do something, using your logic , they are attempting to "interfer" in our internal politics.

You are aware we send troops and soldiers to other countries to train with their military? Does that mean those countries are trying to take over our country?

Ignorance is bliss and you must be in ecstacy when it comes to Government and military concerns.

 

[Ruby]

What a crook of shit. First of the Army trains military officers and troops from Countries, not terrorists and not "freedom fighters". and your own list doesn't support your claim.

Using your logic since Europe wanted Kerry to be elected in 2004 they were "interfering" in our internal politics. Further every time another Country demands we do something, using your logic , they are attempting to "interfer" in our internal politics.

You are aware we send troops and soldiers to other countries to train with their military? Does that mean those countries are trying to take over our country?

Ignorance is bliss and you must be in ecstacy when it comes to Government and military concerns.

The school of americas trains mercenaries and terrorists....and staging COUPS in other nations is most certainly interferring. Financing mercenary groups to terrorize opposition to a US puppets is interferring and is committing terrorism against other nations. Its an example of US STATE SPONSORED TERRORISM. Neg rep away!

US terrorism against the latin american region is a large source of why such illegal immigration even occurs so if you want to impact it...stop the terrorism being committed by our very own govt.

If other nations did this to us, we would be SCREAMING terrorism. If they trained and armed mercenary groups to terrorize and kill anyone supporting the candidate they didnt like...yea it would be interferring and a crime. Its a crime and intereferring criminally when we do it as well. The difference is that no nation IS doing that to the US...but we do it to others.

Tell me, how many coups has the US experienced and what foreign nation staged them?

 

[jillian]

The school of americas trains mercenaries and terrorists....and staging COUPS in other nations is most certainly interferring. Financing mercenary groups to terrorize opposition to a US puppets is interferring and is committing terrorism against other nations. Its an example of US STATE SPONSORED TERRORISM. Neg rep away!

US terrorism against the latin american region is a large source of why such illegal immigration even occurs so if you want to impact it...stop the terrorism being committed by our very own govt.

If other nations did this to us, we would be SCREAMING terrorism. If they trained and armed mercenary groups to terrorize and kill anyone supporting the candidate they didnt like...yea it would be interferring and a crime. Its a crime and intereferring criminally when we do it as well. The difference is that no nation IS doing that to the US...but we do it to others.

Tell me, how many coups has the US experienced and what foreign nation staged them?

Interference in other countries, perhaps. But terrorism is the intentional targeting of civilian populations (as opposed to civilians who get caught in the middle)... you know, like blowing up schools and the like. That has never been done by the US military. There is no question that at times we've supported tyrants who serve our interests over more "democratic" process, but there has never been any use of civilians simply to create fear and confusion.

Perhaps the things that you say that might be correct get lost in the over the top verbiage?

 

[jillian]

Mexico dosent benefit from NAFTA!!! American didnt ALLOW it, america AUTHORED it and PUSHED it.

http://www.citizen.org/documents/NAFTA_10_mexico.pdf

A look at the effects of NAFTA on mexico after 10 years.

http://www.citizen.org/trade/articles.cfm?ID=15730#naftaatten

A site that gives a lot of info on NAFTA and all that are affected and who benefits and who suffers.

In either country, big business benefits and people don't... on both sides of the Rio Grande. That's why they just appoved 100 mexican trucking companies using our roadways.... doesn't do a thing for workers, but those companies from Mexico will do just great. In turn, US companies will place pressure on their workers to work for less money because the Mexican labor is cheaper and it doesn't cost as much for them to operate, at least til Congress gets it s**t together and passes legislation requiring that they meed our emissions standards, pay fees for use of our infrastructure and pay their workes commensurate wages, not to mention resolving security issues.

Again, you miss the big picture by being over the top, I think.

 

[dilloduck]

In either country, big business benefits and people don't... on both sides of the Rio Grande. That's why they just appoved 100 mexican trucking companies using our roadways.... doesn't do a thing for workers, but those companies from Mexico will do just great. In turn, US companies will place pressure on their workers to work for less money because the Mexican labor is cheaper and it doesn't cost as much for them to operate, at least til Congress gets it s**t together and passes legislation requiring that they meed our emissions standards, pay fees for use of our infrastructure and pay their workes commensurate wages, not to mention resolving security issues.

Again, you miss the big picture by being over the top, I think.

Big business employs people to operate them--how can you possibly say people don't benfit. What are you suggesting----the establishment of 100,000 mom and pop businesses ?

 

[jillian]

Big business employs people to operate them--how can you possibly say people don't benfit. What are you suggesting----the establishment of 100,000 mom and pop businesses ?

Big business operates for its shareholders, not its workers. Keeping costs low and profits high is what benefits them.

Or did you think they did profit sharing?

 

[dilloduck]

Big business operates for its shareholders, not its workers. Keeping costs low and profits high is what benefits them.

Or did you think they did profit sharing?

and if big business did not exist ? oh ya--everyone could live on collective farms and be equal. You any good at milking cows ?

 

[Bern80]

Big business operates for its shareholders, not its workers. Keeping costs low and profits high is what benefits them.

Or did you think they did profit sharing?

Are you under the impression that no big businesses do profit sharing?

 

[mattskramer]

Are you under the impression that no big businesses do profit sharing?

It all has to do with cost/benefit analysis. Employers will do just enough to keep good workers working. Some companies give benefits besides base salary. There is group health insurance, pension policies, and profit sharing. Still, as a general rule, businesses are more answerable to large shareholders than to low-tier employees. Hopefully we will not have another "Enron" for a long long time.

 

[Ruby]

Interference in other countries, perhaps. But terrorism is the intentional targeting of civilian populations (as opposed to civilians who get caught in the middle)... you know, like blowing up schools and the like. That has never been done by the US military. There is no question that at times we've supported tyrants who serve our interests over more "democratic" process, but there has never been any use of civilians simply to create fear and confusion.

Perhaps the things that you say that might be correct get lost in the over the top verbiage?

People who farm land that big business wants are not simply in the way...they are targeted. People who stand up against this politically are not in the way....they are targeted.

We have most certainly targeted their populations via low intensity conflicts and using agencies like the CIA, our trained mercenaries, USAID, NED etc. We most definitely terrorize the entire population as well as strip them of their rights to self determination.

We are using violence towards a foreign population to gain our political motives. Its terrorism, state sponsored terrorism, which is actually the most dangerous and deadly since a state has so many more tools and weapons at its disposal.

 

[Ruby]

In either country, big business benefits and people don't... on both sides of the Rio Grande. That's why they just appoved 100 mexican trucking companies using our roadways.... doesn't do a thing for workers, but those companies from Mexico will do just great. In turn, US companies will place pressure on their workers to work for less money because the Mexican labor is cheaper and it doesn't cost as much for them to operate, at least til Congress gets it s**t together and passes legislation requiring that they meed our emissions standards, pay fees for use of our infrastructure and pay their workes commensurate wages, not to mention resolving security issues.

Again, you miss the big picture by being over the top, I think.

I didnt miss any big picture at all. Large business interests benefits (which is actually very few) while citizens on all sides LOSE OUT. Thats exactly what the link I gave describes in detail.

Big business dosent truly have any nationality, the only thing "american" about any of them is that it is the US govt who backs them and even uses the american tax payer money to fund the enforcement of policies that big business wants implemented to satisfy their own goals. Big business uses the US govt and the US taxes as their own personal tools.

 

[Ruby]

and if big business did not exist ? oh ya--everyone could live on collective farms and be equal. You any good at milking cows ?

It has nothing to do with making big business disappear, it has to do with limitations on what they are allowed to do to make profits. This ridiculous all or nothing scenario shows you only rely on false premises and strawman arguments.

 

[Stephanie]

Well if we really want to impact illegal immigration then how bout we end our hostile actions in their nations? How bout we stop the coups, stop supporting militias to enforce our economic policies, stop targeting political dissidents, stop interfering in their rights to self-determination and stay out of their politics. How bout we stop training, paying and arming the death squads that we unleash into their nations to support the puppet dictators we install or support to keep them in poverty? How bout we get rid of NAFTA and CAFTA etc?

http://www.krysstal.com/democracy_whyusa01.html

Year Country

1952 Cuba
1954 Guatemala
1957 Haiti
1960 Ecuador
1963 Dominican Republic
1963 Honduras
1963 Guatemala
1963 Ecuador
1964 Brazil
1964 Bolivia
1970 Bolivia
1972 El Salvador
1973 Chile
1983 Grenada
2002 Venezuela
2004 Haiti

Those are in the Latin American region alone.

You cant enforce poverty without feeling some of the consequences that will naturally arise from that poverty.

A COUPE???

You must be on these governments tits to spread the disinformation about how.........It's everyone's else's fault............Not your own fucking government................What a joke....

 

[Ruby]

A COUPE???
Why the hell can't these RICH GOVERMENTS TAKE CARE OF THEIR OWN PEOPLE.........

You must be on these governments tits to spread the disinformation about how.........It's everyone's else's fault............Not your own fucking government................What a joke....

Those were coups staged by the US, try to actually educate yourself. This information comes from our OWN US GOVT DOCUMENTS and are not coups we DENY even. It is my OWN FUCKING GOVERNMENTS FAULT as MY govt is the US one.

Now people in those nations have most certainly tried to control their own lives and govt, it is the US who sends in the mecenary death squads (most trained right at the school of americas) to terrorize people and to help strip them of their lands, their farms, their homes etc. They are killed, they disappear, they are tortured and this has been going on for DECADES now.

Its seems it is the US who cannot control our own govt....why cant we do that? Why are you so un-informed about what your OWN govt does?

Its exactly why the US govt is on such a mission to get rid of Chavez in Venezuela......Its the reason we spend so much time demonizing Chavez in Venezuela wihout saying a WORD about the horrible situation going on in Guatemala right now.

 

[Ruby]

http://archives.cnn.com/2000/WORLD/americas/09/19/us.cia.chile.ap/

WASHINGTON (AP) -- The CIA is acknowledging for the first time the extent of its deep involvement in Chile, where it dealt with coup-plotters, false propagandists and assassins.

The agency planned to post a declassified report required by the U.S. Congress on its Web site Wednesday that admits CIA support for a kidnapping attempt of Chile's army chief in October 1970, as part of a plot to prevent the congressional confirmation of Marxist leader Salvador Allende as president.

This is very direct interferrence, we kidnap an army chief so we can try and prevent the confirmation of that nations leader? The army chief ended up shot btw and died.

It also disclosed for the first time a CIA payment to secret police head Gen. Manuel Contreras Sepulveda, the head of the military regime's feared secret police, whom the CIA knew to be involved in post-Allende human rights abuses.

There we are paying one of the guys who is in charge of terrorizing the population and committing horrific human rights abuses.

The report does not reveal how much Contreras received in a one-time payment for his CIA services and says the payment was made by mistake after it had been overruled by high officials. The report, however, says the CIA had contact with Contreras on several occasions before and after the bombing.

The report says payment to remnants of the group that kidnapped Schneider was made for "humanitarian reasons," to maintain their good will and avoid disclosure of prior CIA contacts.

Now we are paying a guy who is also behind a car bombing AND the money we paid to the group to do a kidnapping was marked as "humanitarian" money and to help keep a cover on what they were REALLY financing. Now, I wonder how much money we give in "humanitarian" aid is REALLY humanitarian and how much is used to finance terrorist acts like killings, coups, car bombings, kidnappings etc.

and

The report also describes efforts to influence news media in Chile against Allende and to continue anti-leftist propaganda efforts by successor Gen. Augusto Pinochet, "including support for news media committed to creating a positive image for the military Junta" now accused of an array of abuses during his 17-year rule, including more than 3,000 killings.

These are the classic tactics....abusing the media, and if a leader in one of those nations disallows a media to be a propaganda peice supported by a foreign govt who intends to overthrow them...they are called dictators.

Yea lets just ignore what our own govt does, the same one we are responsible for controlling. How ironic you tell others to control their govt when you obviously have no control over your own...hell, you dont even seem to be INFORMED on your own.

 

[Dirt McGirt]

A COUPE???

You must be on these governments tits to spread the disinformation about how.........It's everyone's else's fault............Not your own fucking government................What a joke....

LMAO @ Haiti in 2004. What a joke. Obviously, Ruby doesn't know shit about macroeconomics and globalization. There are several justifiable reasons for the US to back REGIME CHANGE in many of those countries. Ruby with all of her non-interventionist propoganda would most likely back a military coup against a number of countries right now. In fact, I bet the US is at the top of her list.