Blaming the homeowners for their own ignorance!

[editec]

I suspect, as the probable outcome of this plan sinks in, that this is a plan that will not work.

It will lead to a totalitarian state that doesn't even pretend to be anything else.

It could help, if we structured it right, but it won't.

The master class will continue the scam of the banking elite which is predicated on their right to print up fiat dollars that enrich them because they can lend them to us at interest.

What they're doing right now is protecting their right to continue this wholesale theft of people's labors by currency manipulation.

Time to drive the money changers from the temple, folks.

 

[jillian]

Well, I can already name 3 people off the top of my head who read their loan documents. jschuck, being that he's a fellow banker. jillian, being that she's a lawyer. Allie, because she's not fucking stupid.

I doubt Allie read her loan documents. and in all probablility, jschuck knew what was in the docs like I did; checked to make sure the interest rate and payments were as they were supposed to be and made sure it was the proper loan term and type.. while looking for any extraordinary risk factors and then focused on the HUD 1. The fact is that most people really DON'T bother reading because you can't negotiate anything in the loan documents and even if you read them, you don't have time at the closing BEFORE you sign them. So essentially, you end up reviewing them AFTER the closing. That isn't what caused the banking problem, really. People's houses were valued at amount A... they paid down some and re-fi'd when the rate on the ARM's went up... took the equity out of the home. Then they'd have problems because of the economy and go to re-fi again. But, by then, the market dropped and even if they owed amount A on the prior loan, they ended up getting financing for Amount A less market depreciation... so they couldn't re-fi... and the homes went into foreclosure.

Were they stupid? Absolutely? But someone should have been doing risk assessment... And no, there should never be anything like the no income check, no credit check, no asset check loans that banks were giving out

Was stupidity all around.. and now conservative borrowers like me (I'm pathologically allergic to debt... even credit card debt) have to pay the price

And I still can't find a decent house in my neighborhood for less than about $700,000...

 

[WillowTree]

we are being bamboozled, and we are letting it happen.

True! Do you have a plan?

 

[WillowTree]

do you think if the people DID speak up that the gov would suddenly stop what they are doing and listen?

not likely.

I do think the home buyers hold some of the responsibility. I know what I make a month, I know what I can afford... getting into a mortgage you can't afford is pretty stupid.

That said, I have a friend who had her mortage double in the last 6 months and now she's losing her house. She was very smart about her mortgage but the company she went through passed her mortgage onto another company and they revalued her home and raised her mortgage. I know nothing about that shit (I rent for a reason) so I don't know if that was something in the fine print that she missed or what...I do know she never missed a payment and now she's screwed. that's fucked up.

That is fucked up. How is that possible? Once a contract is signed and agreed upon they cannot just change it willy nilly. She must have signed one of those variable rate mortgages.

 

[WillowTree]

If the government is bailing them out, the government needs to provide oversight, regardless what Paulson thinks. Moron.

That's like putting the fox in the hen house! Oversight my ass. Oversight means somebody who cannot be bought.

 

[WillowTree]

In a government owned by the corporations, do you think they will actually care? The steel door has been shut on the people! You can scream as loud as you want, but as long as there is no oversight and regulation, this is what you get. Thank you, Ronald Regan, George H.W. Bush, George W. Bush, Bill Clinton, for the mess you created!

Who's going to give you oversight? Chris Dodd, Obamalama? John Effen Kerrry,, ohhhh wiat, they deal with baseball players..

 

[Care4all]

We are Mortgaging OFF ourselves, right this very minute, with this Bailout, and we the people, ALL OF US, have not read a single bit of information on the terms of this mortgage... explaining the mortgage we are being told is ours.

What are we buying?

From whom are we buying it?

And at what financial risk?

And at what interest rate?

And for how long?

Is it a fixed mortgage or is it adjustable?

Are there any closing costs to be paid?

STOP THIS PLAN, email your Reps in congress, pretty please...

And tell them we aren't gonna sign these mortgage papers, BECAUSE WE HAVEN'T SEEN THEM AND WE DON'T KNOW THE TERMS!

THEY are having us do what the ignorant do.....sign the dotted line without reading it and this is one of the major causes of this whole mess in the first place.

HOW CAN $700 BILLION save the usa's $14 trillion dollar gdp, let alone the world's?

IT CAN'T....we are being DECEIVED/FLEECED/BAMBOOZLED... and do not know the whole story, and every minute that goes by it is becoming clearer to me that this is a money grab.

only 12% of ALL subprime mortgages are in foreclosure....how in the hell can this be so urgent that our ENTIRE ECONOMY and the WORLD'S ENTIRE ECONOMY is at risk of "going down"?

 

[WillowTree]

We are Mortgaging OFF ourselves, right this very minute, with this Bailout, and we the people, ALL OF US, have not read a single bit of information on the terms of this mortgage... explaining the mortgage we are being told is ours.

What are we buying?

From whom are we buying it?

And at what financial risk?

And at what interest rate?

And for how long?

Is it a fixed mortgage or is it adjustable?

Are there any closing costs to be paid?

STOP THIS PLAN, email your Reps in congress, pretty please...

And tell them we aren't gonna sign these mortgage papers, BECAUSE WE HAVEN'T SEEN THEM AND WE DON'T KNOW THE TERMS!

THEY are having us do what the ignorant do.....sign the dotted line without reading it and this is one of the major causes of this whole mess in the first place.

HOW CAN $700 BILLION save the usa's $14 trillion dollar gdp, let alone the world's?

IT CAN'T....we are being DECEIVED/FLEECED/BAMBOOZLED... and do not know the whole story, and every minute that goes by it is becoming clearer to me that this is a money grab.

only 12% of ALL subprime mortgages are in foreclosure....how in the hell can this be so urgent that our ENTIRE ECONOMY and the WORLD'S ENTIRE ECONOMY is at risk of "going down"?

Care, nobody has hasked us to sign a thing. They are just going to do it. I have never felt so pissed in my entire life. And yes, I did email both my State Senators, Martinez and Nelson. last week. never heard a word.

 

[KMAN]

You know, many on this board have blamed the mortgage ignorant home buyers for this mess we are in...and some of this blame, is understandable.

They did not take the time to make themselves knowledgeable enough, on the biggest purchase of their life, before buying the home and getting the adjustable rate subprime mortgage and many on here have said this is their own damn fault!

Well, I'll be damned!

Isn't that what we are doing ourselves RIGHT NOW?

Letting our gvt talk us in to mortgaging the biggest debt in our history, with no qurstions asked by us...told by paulson that his deal to bail out the banks MUST INCLUDE NO OVERsight by any gvt position or agency, and it has to be done RIGHT THIS SECOND?

AND all of us are just repeating what we are told, THAT it MUST be done right now? when we haven't even asked WHY and how will this fix anything and how many more trillions will it cost?

WE ARE SO IGNORANT OURSELVES, don't ya think another scam is being pulled and WE are no smarter than those subprime homeowners?

You are right on... It's hard for the consumer to take responsibility for themselves when our government is doing the same thing... Once again Government is the problem, not the answer!!!!!!!!

 

[AVG-JOE]

...only 12% of ALL subprime mortgages are in foreclosure....how in the hell can this be so urgent that our ENTIRE ECONOMY and the WORLD'S ENTIRE ECONOMY is at risk of "going down"?

This is a pretty good point...

-J

 

[AVG-JOE]

I can see one good thing coming out of this bail out...

I am seeing a lot less finger-pointing left versus right bullshit rhetoric. I have never seen this board this united behind an issue.

Viva La Revolution!

-Joe

 

[editec]

We are Mortgaging OFF ourselves, right this very minute, with this Bailout, and we the people, ALL OF US, have not read a single bit of information on the terms of this mortgage... explaining the mortgage we are being told is ours.

What are we buying?

From whom are we buying it?

And at what financial risk?

And at what interest rate?

And for how long?

Is it a fixed mortgage or is it adjustable?

Are there any closing costs to be paid?

STOP THIS PLAN, email your Reps in congress, pretty please...

And tell them we aren't gonna sign these mortgage papers, BECAUSE WE HAVEN'T SEEN THEM AND WE DON'T KNOW THE TERMS!

THEY are having us do what the ignorant do.....sign the dotted line without reading it and this is one of the major causes of this whole mess in the first place.

HOW CAN $700 BILLION save the usa's $14 trillion dollar gdp, let alone the world's?

IT CAN'T....we are being DECEIVED/FLEECED/BAMBOOZLED... and do not know the whole story, and every minute that goes by it is becoming clearer to me that this is a money grab.

only 12% of ALL subprime mortgages are in foreclosure....how in the hell can this be so urgent that our ENTIRE ECONOMY and the WORLD'S ENTIRE ECONOMY is at risk of "going down"?

You're asking all the right questions.

Sadly there are no right ansers forthcoming.

They are going to lie and lie and lie and lie to us becuase if they cannot convince enough of us to keep playing THEIR GAME, the one they have FIXED to SCREW US, the system will fall apart.

This is how nations fall apart.

they fall apart from the TOP.

This is what happens because power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely.

 

[dilloduck]

You're asking all the right questions.

Sadly there are no right ansers forthcoming.

They are going to lie and lie and lie and lie to us becuase if they cannot convince enough of us to keep playing THEIR GAME, the one they have FIXED to SCREW US, the system will fall apart.

This is how nations fall apart.

they fall apart from the TOP.

This is what happens because power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely.

And irrational hyper-partisanship PUT these assholes in power.

 

[editec]

And irrational hyper-partisanship PUT these assholes in power.

And who owns the media which created that hyper-partisan environment?

Half the people on this board truly believe that the poor are causing these problems, I think.

Seriously, how blinded does one have to be by partisanship to think that the people with no money and no power cause the mistakes of the master class?

 

[Bern80]

You know, many on this board have blamed the mortgage ignorant home buyers for this mess we are in...and some of this blame, is understandable.

They did not take the time to make themselves knowledgeable enough, on the biggest purchase of their life, before buying the home and getting the adjustable rate subprime mortgage and many on here have said this is their own damn fault!

Well, I'll be damned!

Isn't that what we are doing ourselves RIGHT NOW?

Letting our gvt talk us in to mortgaging the biggest debt in our history, with no qurstions asked by us...told by paulson that his deal to bail out the banks MUST INCLUDE NO OVERsight by any gvt position or agency, and it has to be done RIGHT THIS SECOND?

AND all of us are just repeating what we are told, THAT it MUST be done right now? when we haven't even asked WHY and how will this fix anything and how many more trillions will it cost?

WE ARE SO IGNORANT OURSELVES, don't ya think another scam is being pulled and WE are no smarter than those subprime homeowners?

Being one of those people who believes a good chunk of the blame should go on individuals, I am torn on the bailout proposal. It has very few positives. It won't help potential homebuyers as much as simply letting home prices come back down to earth, the tax payers are on the hook for it, and we aren't giving the best life lesson by showing people even if they screw up big, old government will save them.

On the other hand what's the alternative, really?

 

[Alpha1]

I will mail $5.00 in U.S. currency ca$h to the first 5 people who can convince 10 people on this board that they read and understood the entirety of any loan in excess of $75,000.00 received from a licensed bank or mortgage company.

Even lawyers don't read those things!

Any bets on what this is going to cost me?

And we're the smartest people in the country, people who write on message boards in lieu of sleep!

Certainly people need to take responsibility! If we are going to live in a capitalist economy everyone needs to agree that the buyer needs to be wary, but come on... buyers, taxpayers, small business owners, citizens, et al also deserve comprehendible paperwork!

To some degree, our government has failed to protect us from what is becoming a very real domestic threat.

-Joe

Question#1....
How much will my payment be every month?

Question#2
Can I afford to pay that for x number of months ?

It ain't rocket science....

Its the same questions you ask no matter what your are buying....
a $500 PC or a $50,000 car or a $500,000 home...

 

[dilloduck]

Being one of those people who believes a good chunk of the blame should go on individuals, I am torn on the bailout proposal. It has very few positives. It won't help potential homebuyers as much as simply letting home prices come back down to earth, the tax payers are on the hook for it, and we aren't giving the best life lesson by showing people even if they screw up big, old government will save them.

On the other hand what's the alternative, really?

If there even was another alternative, we wouldnt be given the option to choose it.

 

[Tech_Esq]

they let morgan stanley become a bank after the fact today, and gold sachs too...what the heck is THAT ABOUT?

I actually heard the President of Bank of America talking about this issue last week. His take was that if investment banks were going to get the benefit of a government bailout, basically take government money, then they needed to be regulated and fall under the same rules as other banks that they had been exempt from.

So, I think MS and GS saw the writing on the wall and if they are going to have more regulation, they probably felt they ought to have the benefits of having depositors too.

I don't know whether all that is good, bad or indifferent, just reporting the facts as I heard them.

 

[dilloduck]

And who owns the media which created that hyper-partisan environment?

Half the people on this board truly believe that the poor are causing these problems, I think.

Seriously, how blinded does one have to be by partisanship to think that the people with no money and no power cause the mistakes of the master class?

They act as willing tools for this Master Class-- i.e. useful idiots.

 

[AVG-JOE]

Question#1....
How much will my payment be every month?

Question#2
Can I afford to pay that for x number of months ?

It ain't rocket science....

Its the same questions you ask no matter what your are buying....
a $500 PC or a $50,000 car or a $500,000 home...

Are you trying to tell me that loan documents, even the fine print on your VISA agreement, are easily read and understood?

That is all I'm saying... the paperwork is complicated for a reason, and the reason is NOT to protect the consumer.

The consumer needs to trust that their government won't let con artists write the documents... How has that worked out for us?

If 2% of loans were funky - shame on those 2% for signing.

If 20% are funky - protection that was assumed (because it was not obviously stated) is missing.

You are correct - not rocket science


-Joe