Birth Control and Penile Implants

[signelect]

I just don't get the whole argument. If you have sex and want birth control that is your business. If you want to use birth control, that is smart but it is also your responsibility you pay for it. Penl implants are just stupid, guy need to grow up and I am a guy.

 

[frazzledgear]

I just don't get the whole argument. If you have sex and want birth control that is your business. If you want to use birth control, that is smart but it is also your responsibility you pay for it. Penl implants are just stupid, guy need to grow up and I am a guy.

Why are penile implants "stupid" and who are you to insist others must accept your judgment for their own?

Penile implants are used as a last resort measure to deal with impotence due to injury or disease (not due to emotional issues which is better resolved by other means). Where do you get off telling anyone they are never allowed to have sex again and must forfeit a sex life for the rest of their life? And apparently regardless of their age- although you also have no right telling anyone you think they are too old to still enjoy a sex life! Who gives a shit what value you put on your own sex life and if you dont care if you ever have sex again for the rest of your life? It never means you get to force others to replace the value they put on their sex life for your nonexistent one. Not your call, not your right. When people have impaired body functions of any kind, the value THEY place on that is all that counts, never yours- and the value they place on it is what determines if they choose to seek help for it or not. Not yours!

See, that is what is involved in being free - making one's own choices about how to run their own life instead of having government ram it down their throat against their will. The part that sticks in the craw of liberals is the fact freedom also means accepting responsibility for the consequences of one's decisions and choices instead of foisting them off to those who didn't make them. The notion that those who want birth control pills should expect those who don't to foot the bill for them is repulsive, anti-American and nothing but a cheap bauble being dangled in exchange for selling off our real rights. The only way for government to claim greater and greater powers to run the minutiae of our lives -is by stripping more and more of our real rights and powers from us, either by force or bribery. It is a never ending effort by government to turn us from citizens who consent to be governed to subjects forced to do what they are told or face punishment. Sadly some will sell off their rights for a pack of birth control pills- but I sure as hell will never allow them to sell off MINE! Government is never trustworthy- it needs constant checks, restrictions, reined in as the never ending power hungry monster it is. It corrupts those who occupy government and the level of corruption only grows with time, it never lessens. The rights of citizens are being constantly eroded by those who love powerful, totalitarian government, those who seek power over others and those infected with a burning desire to tell others how to live their lives or inflict punishment on them for refusing to obey. Eventually it is citizens who become their own government's victims so the power hungry can tighten their grasp and cling to power at all costs. Anyone with even a rudimentary understanding of history would know that.

If private companies and individuals CHOOSE to offer coverage for birth control pills- so what? Who cares and absolutely NO ONE is arguing about that possibility. Government ORDERING it be covered regardless of whether it is appropriate or wanted for and by individuals and individual businesses, institutions and companies and even when it violates their religious beliefs and tenets- then government can fuck off!

 

[daveman]

You're the one claiming something exists. Burden of proof falls on you.

Wrong. You claimed the right supports government-paid penile implants.

Prove it.

Show me the protests against it.

You're really not very good at this.

Perhaps you could find message board posts, letters to the editor, or party platform statements backing up your claim.

Or you can just keep stamping your feet and insisting other people do your homework for you.

 

[kwc57]

For those that are so militantly opposed to insurance coverage for birth control, why are you okay with insurance coverage for penile implants? Birth control actually has some medical uses beyond contraception (it's very useful for the treatment of endometriosis, for example), while penile implants don't have a medical use beyond defining the ability to have sex as a medical use.

Do you have some sort of evidence of people who militantly oppose insurance coverage for birth control being ok with covering for woodies or are you making assumptions?

 

[kwc57]

because that would effect men, and republicans care about men.

You forgot to say white men.

 

[daveman]

Show me the protests against it.

Well, that wouldn't be much proof of anything.

If you claimed the right supports govt-paid penile implants, that burden is on YOU to support it.

You won't be able to support it, but that doesn't mean that burden isn't on you. And, until you DO support it, it can be taken as utter bullshit until you DO support it.

If the right is so against it, why are they never protesting against it like they protest against birth control? It's the same load of crap where your side claims they were really angry about Bush's spending, but mysteriously never said anything the entire time he was in office.

Your lack of awareness is proof of nothing except your lack of awareness.

The Volokh Conspiracy - George W, Richard Nixon, and Big Government Conservatism:

GayPatriot » Posts* Where We Criticized GOP on Spending in Bush Era

Why Conservatives Hate Bush - Greenberg

Conservatives criticize Bush's spending, anti-terrorism law - Baltimore Sun

Conservatives Criticize Bush on Spending | FreedomWorks

WP: Conservatives Criticize Bush* on Spending - Democratic Underground

The information you're spoon-fed by the left-dominated media is not representative of reality.

 

[daveman]

If the right is so against it, why are they never protesting against it like they protest against birth control? It's the same load of crap where your side claims they were really angry about Bush's spending, but mysteriously never said anything the entire time he was in office.

YOU made the claim; the burden is on you.

It's bullshit.

Move on or carry on and look like a moron, though.

Why is it bullshit? Hell, your side has had this entire thread to voice opposition to it and not a single person has done so.

We're under no obligation to validate your claims.

 

[daveman]

Not a single voice of opposition, even after being given the chance to denounce it repeatedly, and yet people are supposed to believe you're firmly opposed?

Leftists like to lick yogurt off of hobos' feet.

No one has denied it. Therefore, it's true.

 

[Polk]

Contraception is a valid medical issue, nutball.

Spending money so a 75-year old dude can wank in peace is clearly a more valid medical issue than a young woman suffering from PCOS or endometriosis.

 

[Polk]

Not a single voice of opposition, even after being given the chance to denounce it repeatedly, and yet people are supposed to believe you're firmly opposed?

Leftists like to lick yogurt off of hobos' feet.

No one has denied it. Therefore, it's true.

I'll deny it. See how easy that is?

 

[Polk]

Wrong. You claimed the right supports government-paid penile implants.

Prove it.

Show me the protests against it.

You're really not very good at this.

Perhaps you could find message board posts, letters to the editor, or party platform statements backing up your claim.

Or you can just keep stamping your feet and insisting other people do your homework for you.

Go back through this entire thread. Your side hasn't responded with "I don't support this either". It's responded with "show me were I said I support it".

 

[frazzledgear]

Wrong. You claimed the right supports government-paid penile implants.

Prove it.

Show me the protests against it.

You're really not very good at this.

Perhaps you could find message board posts, letters to the editor, or party platform statements backing up your claim.

Or you can just keep stamping your feet and insisting other people do your homework for you.

Wow -Polk must actually think penile implants are some kind of sex toy or intended to artificially enlarge the penis like breast implants do! I could not understand why he kept going on and on about them like a dummy! The word "implant" does not tell you the PURPOSE FOR THE IMPLANT! Did you know that following cataract surgery, people have an artificial lens IMPLANT? Or people with disfiguring injuries to their facial bones often are repaired using IMPLANTS? Did you know these kinds of implants -and others -are covered by insurance too?

Polk -if you don't know what you are talking about, might want to stop and check what you think is true, really is.

Penile implants for cosmetic reasons are NOT covered by insurance, never have been. Cosmetic surgery is not covered by health insurance no matter where on the body the surgery is being done. That is why breast implants are not covered except for reconstructive purposes following mastectomy. However, penile implants to treat permanent and resistant impotence due to disease or injury are covered and those account for the overwhelming vast majority of penile implants. The implant chosen is the one actually designed to work in that size penis, not one intended to artificially stretch it beyond its normal size flaccid or erect and add an additional level of trauma to the whole thing! Like other medical conditions, impotence is a verifiable condition without which, it won't be covered by insurance. I've never heard of a man with a normal penis and normal ability to get and maintain an erection actually volunteering to go and let someone slice his dick open and shove a foreign object in it, sew it closed and hope for the best, especially hope it doesn't interfere with his ability to have an erection after that-but I'm sure there are some idiots are more than willing to do that. But insurance sure as hell won't pay for that. Penile implants are not just a foreign object shoved in there -they are inflatable and use an external pump in order to artificially cause an erection for a man who has been rendered impotent due to disease or injury. Penile implants are also used for transgender surgery but most are for chronic impotence due to injury or disease.

You are aware that surgery to reconstruct a woman's vagina due to disease or injury using both artificial materials and skin grafts so she too can have a more normal sex life is also covered, right? THAT is the surgery that is actually comparable to penile implants. Not breast implants.

 

[Norman]

In my opinion insuring yourself for birth control would be crazy. You do be guaranteed to end up as loser on that trade.

And now the government is forcing every woman to do that - even more crazy. Would be more efficient to just mail every woman a check so they could buy the birth control. I think this policy is a bit sexist, but I am pretty sure that it's going to in fact end up benefiting males. No male has to buy birth control, and the cost will be born by females.

Of course, this doesn't touch unemployed people. Screw them! In fact it will be harder for women to get a job due to the added cost caused by this policy.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Rather, the First Amendment doesn't give the GOVERNMENT the right to dictate to religious organizations what they MUST do contrary to their beliefs by passing a law doing just that - that "law" that you say the religious organizations want to break. And when their breaking that "law" doesn't affect the inherent rights, guaranteed by the Constitution, of anyone.

I'm surprised you didn't learn that little detail in 8th grade civics.

They are apparently taught that the Constitution makes it illegal for people to do things.

None of the amendments is an absolutely. Just because you have freedom of religion doesn't mean you get to perform human sacrifice. Just because you have freedom of speech doesn't mean you get to yell "fire" in a crowded movie theater.

Wow, I am so surprised that you think that is a coherent response to my post.

Not.

The Constitution does not make it illegal for any individual to do anything. Period. End of discussion. Nothing you say is going to change that.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Perhaps you'd like to provide a link to something about the anti-penile implant protests?

Not really. You're making a claim -- it's up to you to prove it.

You're the one claiming something exists. Burden of proof falls on you.

Tell you what, why don't you provide a link to people testifying before Congress complaining about the cost of penile implants and defending the inclusion of them in every insurance policy sold in the United States. Once you do that I will be happy to show you protests of people complaining about being required to pay for them. Until then, all you are doing is making yourself look small and petty in trying to draw an equivalence between men buying insurance that covers implants and women demanding that insurance cover birth control for free.

Please, dig yourself deeper and demand I provide a link to a woman testifying that insurance should cover birth control.

I dare you.

Damn, I should post early in the morning more often, I am obviously smarter before I have a chance to wake up.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Except no one is forcing religions to do anything. To say any organization vaguely associate with a religion deserves First Amendment protection is to effectively nullify federal law. After all, just claim any law you don't like violates your religion.

That's one way to look at it, I suppose. Do note, however, that the 1st Amendment doesn't specify that freedom of religion is something bestowed upon religious sects as a whole. It's an individual right, not a collective one. Each person is free to practice their religion as they see fit (so long as they aren't breaking the law, of course), and it's always been generally understood that the whole idea was that the government couldn't force people of ANY faith (in any number) to compromise that faith unduly. Otherwise you could force Jehovas Witnesses in elementary schools to participate in holiday celebrations, since you're not forcing "the religion itself" to do anything, only a few members who had the nerve to try and say that the 1st Amendment protects them in particular, and not just their religion as an organization.

The crux of the issue is what you feel is undue, not what you feel qualifies as a valid religious tenet or who you feel qualifies as a valid religious person/organization. If it were subject to those opinions, it wouldn't really protect -anything-, now would it? At any point popular opinion could decide that certain religions aren't covered. If that's how it's supposed to work, why specify that freedom at all? Just get it over with and choose a state religion.

The part I highlighted in the rub, since your argument is that they should be free to break the law, by claiming the law is a violation of their religion. My point is that to read the First Amendment so broadly is to effectively nullify all laws.

They are.

freedomforum.org: George Maynard recalls license-plate ordeal, free-speech victory

You lose.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Show me the protests against it.

Well, that wouldn't be much proof of anything.

If you claimed the right supports govt-paid penile implants, that burden is on YOU to support it.

You won't be able to support it, but that doesn't mean that burden isn't on you. And, until you DO support it, it can be taken as utter bullshit until you DO support it.

If the right is so against it, why are they never protesting against it like they protest against birth control? It's the same load of crap where your side claims they were really angry about Bush's spending, but mysteriously never said anything the entire time he was in office.

Because the right is not against it, they are against the government saying that everyone most buy a policy that covers it. As far as I know there are no guidelines from HHS requiring insurance companies to cover well man visits, which actually don't exist. Nor do they force insurance companies to provide free penile implants as the minimum coverage of every insurance policy sold in this country.

Want to try again?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Not a single voice of opposition, even after being given the chance to denounce it repeatedly, and yet people are supposed to believe you're firmly opposed?

I can;t speak for anyone else because I am not a progressive moonbat, but the reason I am not denouncing it is because it is not happening. Do you want me to denounce the government keeping alien prisoners at Area 51 too?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

More on Catholic Healthcare West's decision


by Jamie L Manson on Jan. 26, 2012 NCR Today


In what could set a significant precedent, Catholic Healthcare West, "one of the nation's largest hospital systems and operator of four Bay Area hospitals, is ending its governing board's affiliation with the Catholic Church and changing its name to help the system expand," the San Jose Mercury News reports.

The system's change to a nondenominational board will create "a tremendous opportunity that will help accelerate our growth," Lloyd Dean, the president and CEO of Catholic Healthcare West, told the Mercury News.

The article also reports that "secular hospitals added to the system will be required to adhere to the 'Statement of Common Values' that apply to Catholic Healthcare West's secular hospitals."

Although the article doesn't note this, the move will also allow the hospital to provide its employees with all of the provisions included in the Affordable Healthcare Act, including access to contraception, without involvement from the hierarchy.

More on Catholic Healthcare West's decision | National Catholic Reporter

and some 'catholic' systems don't agree...imagine that

That is very interesting. So all this blather about charity hospitals going out of business was just, well, blather?

Let me guess, you are happy that this will result in higher tax burdens for the people of California.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Contraception is a valid medical issue, nutball.

You are welcome to make that point with your insurance company and ask them to provide coverage for it. They can then choose to give you what you want, or let you get it someplace else, the same way men who want penile implants do.