Bill Maher Insults Troops - Again

[CSM]

I give respect to all my fellow veterans for their service.... George Bush included. I think that people here mistake disagreement with disrespect. I disagree with fellow veterans all the time about this war.... but that does not mean I do not respect their service. The discussions about the war in Iraq at my American Legion Post are quite often spirited but they always end with the clinking of beer glasses and a smile or a pat on the back.

If I say that I vehemently disagree with President Bush's foreign policy and firmly believe that he has been even more inept at attempting to execute that flawed foreign policy, that is a measure of my disagreement with his performance as President, not disrespect for his TANG service.

I think he is the worst President of my lifetime. I think he has blundered us into a mess in the middle east that we may now be incapable of "unfucking". I am not about to feel compelled to have a different opinion about our President's CURRENT PERFORMANCE as President simply because of his past service in uniform. And that is no different than republican veterans who think that Jimmy Carter was the worst President while still respecting HIS commissioned service in the US Navy.

Nonetheless, if George Bush came to speak at MY American Legion Post, I would stand at attention as he entered the room, and I would offer respectful appluase at the conclusion of his remarks.

And that last paragraph is what makes all the difference in the world to me. As you say, disagreement between vets goes on all the time yet somehow, in the end, there is a level of respect for service rendered to country. Even Psychoblues, whom I truly despise, deserves some respect for having served. I am not going soft here, in all other respects he is a waste of human flesh.

In truth, the biggest problem I have with you, MM, is your condescending attitude towards those who disagree with your view and your APPARENT lack of respect for enlisted folks...as I stated, I know you are more than capable of carrying on a reasonable conversation in a civil tone. I have to admit however, that is hard to do with some on these boards and the temptation to lower the level of discourse is almost irresistable!

 

[red states rule]

In addition to his condescending attitude he still denies how elected Dems have slimed and insulted the US militray

 

[CSM]

In addition to his condescending attitude he still denies how elected Dems have slimed and insulted the US militray

I agree with that but not surprised he is that way. What seems ironic is that he calls disagreement with those he likes as "flippant and direspectful" while disagreement by him with others is his patriotic duty. There is a thread some place here about Eaton where he displays THAT piece of hypocricy really well; that is the hypocricy in him I dislike.

 

[red states rule]

I agree with that but not surprised he is that way. What seems ironic is that he calls disagreement with those he likes as "flippant and direspectful" while disagreement by him with others is his patriotic duty. There is a thread some place here about Eaton where he displays THAT piece of hypocricy really well; that is the hypocricy in him I dislike.

I am surprised he will not be at the pro terrorist rally in DC today. he would feel very much at home

 

[maineman]

I agree with that but not surprised he is that way. What seems ironic is that he calls disagreement with those he likes as "flippant and direspectful" while disagreement by him with others is his patriotic duty. There is a thread some place here about Eaton where he displays THAT piece of hypocricy really well; that is the hypocricy in him I dislike.

I think that it is quite telling that democrats who express disagreement THE ADMINISTRATION about the way this war is being fought - and the way that the US military is being used are characterized as having "slimed and disrespected" our troops.... but republicans are free to criticize retired flag officers for expressing their quite learned opinions... and denigrate their "lack of combat" experience and claim they really only know how to "teach foreign languages".....pretty sarcastic, pretty disrespectful, if you ask me...

but clearly, respect for military personnel only goes for those who toe the administration line.... anyone else gets slimed with disrespectful sarcasm and the folks who deliver it feel they should be free from criticism for doing so.

it seems hypocritical to denounce hypocrisy from the left when taking such positions from the right.

 

[red states rule]

I think that it is quite telling that democrats who express disagreement THE ADMINISTRATION about the way this war is being fought - and the way that the US military is being used are characterized as having "slimed and disrespected" our troops.... but republicans are free to criticize retired flag officers for expressing their quite learned opinions... and denigrate their "lack of combat" experience and claim they really only know how to "teach foreign languages".....pretty sarcastic, pretty disrespectful, if you ask me...

but clearly, respect for military personnel only goes for those who toe the administration line.... anyone else gets slimed with disrespectful sarcasm and the folks who deliver it feel they should be free from criticism for doing so.

it seems hypocritical to denounce hypocrisy from the left when taking such positions from the right.

they can disagree - but they cannot call them uneducated, terrorists, compare them to Nazi's, and Pol Pot, say they murdered in cold blood, or they are running torture chambers

 

[Gunny]

I agree with both of you Gunny and CSM and I would like to apologize for any doubt I may have displayed or any disrespect I may have shown you, Maineman, as far as your service to our country.

Maineman, you will never hear another thing from me relating to your extensive tour of service to our country except thank you, that is a promise.

One thing though.....I would only ask that you show our President, George W. Bush, the same respect you would show a fellow veteran. Not only did he serve as a fighter pilot in the National Guard but he is serving right now as Commander in Chief which is easily one of the hardest jobs anyone could do for his country. The demands are 24 hours a day, 365 days a year and the mental and physical toll is great. He is also a target for the rest of his life for any fanatical asshole that wants to make the news, I think he deserves a bit of respect from anyone that feels deserving of respect themselves.

I agree to a point. Anyone's service is subject to question if they throw it out there. My point is it is not subject to arbitrary and unsupported disrespect for no more reason than political disagreement.

Apply your question to James Earl Carter, John F Kerry. and/or Bill Clinton.

 

[red states rule]

how can a former member of the military defend the Dems who have insulted and slimed the military?

 

[Gunny]

I think that it is quite telling that democrats who express disagreement THE ADMINISTRATION about the way this war is being fought - and the way that the US military is being used are characterized as having "slimed and disrespected" our troops.... but republicans are free to criticize retired flag officers for expressing their quite learned opinions... and denigrate their "lack of combat" experience and claim they really only know how to "teach foreign languages".....pretty sarcastic, pretty disrespectful, if you ask me...

but clearly, respect for military personnel only goes for those who toe the administration line.... anyone else gets slimed with disrespectful sarcasm and the folks who deliver it feel they should be free from criticism for doing so.

it seems hypocritical to denounce hypocrisy from the left when taking such positions from the right.

and vice-versa. There's fine line where it goes from dissent to disrespect.

 

[red states rule]

like calling members of the miltary uneducated, terrorists, Nazi's, members of Pol Pot's killers, and cold blooded mureders?

 

[Gunny]

like calling members of the miltary uneducated, terrorists, Nazi's, members of Pol Pot's killers, and cold blooded mureders?

I neither care for, nor agree with the implications made by the various politicians in the particular statements to which you refer. I appreciate even less the same liberals/Democrats who forced Repulicans to hang Trent Lott out to dry for an obviously misprepresented, benign statement are the same saying those implications were not made.

Where you lose the base for your argument is in making statements such as this one. No such statement as you have presented exists. Present what is REAL and attack THAT.

In other words, you lower yourself to the level of your opposition by adopting their tactics.

 

[red states rule]

I neither care for, nor agree with the implications made by the various politicians in the particular statements to which you refer. I appreciate even less the same liberals/Democrats who forced Repulicans to hang Trent Lott out to dry for an obviously misprepresented, benign statement are the same saying those implications were not made.

Where you lose the base for your argument is in making statements such as this one. No such statement as you have presented exists. Present what is REAL and attack THAT.

In other words, you lower yourself to the level of your opposition by adopting their tactics.

I let the libs own words do all the talking:

“If I read this to you and did not tell you that it was an FBI agent describing what Americans had done to prisoners in their control, you would most certainly believe this must have been done by Nazis, Soviets in their gulags, or some mad regime—Pol Pot or others—that had no concern for human beings. Sadly, that is not the case. This was the action of Americans in the treatment of their prisoners.” Dick Durbin

The Pasadena Star News yesterday reported on a rally for failing California Democratic gubernatorial candidate, Phil Angelides, at which John Kerry warned students in the audience that if they didn't get an education they would have no other alternative than to be forced into the US Armed Forces.

"Kerry then told the students that if they were able to navigate the education system, they could get comfortable jobs - 'If you don't, you get stuck in Iraq,' he said to a mixture of laughter and gasps."

"Our troops overreacted because of the pressure on them, and they killed innocent civilians in cold blood." Murtha

''On March 19, 2004, President Bush asked, 'Who would prefer that Saddam's torture chambers still be open?' Shamefully, we now learn that Saddam's torture chambers reopened under new management - US management.''
Ted Kennedy


I don't agree with that. But I think what we need to do is recognize what we all agree on, which is, you've got to begin to set benchmarks for accomplishment; you've got to begin to transfer authority to the Iraqis, and there is no reason, Bob, that young American soldiers need to be going into the homes of Iraqis in the dead of night, terrorizing kids and children, you know, women, breaking sort of the customs of the -- of -- of -- of -- historical customs, religious customs, whether you like it or not.

John Kerry

 

[Gunny]

I let the libs own words do all the talking:

“If I read this to you and did not tell you that it was an FBI agent describing what Americans had done to prisoners in their control, you would most certainly believe this must have been done by Nazis, Soviets in their gulags, or some mad regime—Pol Pot or others—that had no concern for human beings. Sadly, that is not the case. This was the action of Americans in the treatment of their prisoners.” Dick Durbin

The Pasadena Star News yesterday reported on a rally for failing California Democratic gubernatorial candidate, Phil Angelides, at which John Kerry warned students in the audience that if they didn't get an education they would have no other alternative than to be forced into the US Armed Forces.

"Kerry then told the students that if they were able to navigate the education system, they could get comfortable jobs - 'If you don't, you get stuck in Iraq,' he said to a mixture of laughter and gasps."

"Our troops overreacted because of the pressure on them, and they killed innocent civilians in cold blood." Murtha

''On March 19, 2004, President Bush asked, 'Who would prefer that Saddam's torture chambers still be open?' Shamefully, we now learn that Saddam's torture chambers reopened under new management - US management.''
Ted Kennedy


I don't agree with that. But I think what we need to do is recognize what we all agree on, which is, you've got to begin to set benchmarks for accomplishment; you've got to begin to transfer authority to the Iraqis, and there is no reason, Bob, that young American soldiers need to be going into the homes of Iraqis in the dead of night, terrorizing kids and children, you know, women, breaking sort of the customs of the -- of -- of -- of -- historical customs, religious customs, whether you like it or not.

John Kerry

You won't hear me disagree with that the statements are tasteless, if not downright shameful. I'm sure if you recall, and/or look around, I've had a quite a bit to say about each when they first came out.

Point is, when you present the actual statements, the tap dancing begins. When you present a consolidated, abbreviated version as fact that is in fact NOT fact, but your opinion, you give away your advantage.

 

[red states rule]

You won't hear me disagree with that the statements are tasteless, if not downright shameful. I'm sure if you recall, and/or look around, I've had a quite a bit to say about each when they first came out.

Point is, when you present the actual statements, the tap dancing begins. When you present a consolidated, abbreviated version as fact that is in fact NOT fact, but your opinion, you give away your advantage.

I post the quotes and it is an "abbreviated version"?????????????

Libs have a long history of showing their contempt for the military and I am confident they will continue to provide new material

My problem with libs like MM is they will spin, lie, and defend the libs that slander the troops.

Today at the pro terrorist rally in DC I am sure you will see some anti US military signs and the libs will ignore them

 

[Gunny]

I post the quotes and it is an "abbreviated version"?????????????

What evidence supports this statement as a statment of fact:

"like calling members of the miltary uneducated, terrorists, Nazi's, members of Pol Pot's killers, and cold blooded mureders?"

Libs have a long history of showing their contempt for the military and I am confident they will continue to provide new material

Peaceniks and the otherwise loony left-wing extremes show contempt for the military. The average liberal, IMO, neglects the military altogether as it is not on their list of priorities.

But there's a difference between "contempt" and "neglect."

My problem with libs like MM is they will spin, lie, and defend the libs that slander the troops.

Okay. My point is responding with the quotes and basing your argument those actual quotes is one thing, and gives you the upper hand by the evidence supporting your argument.

Calling a liberal/Democrat a "liberal or Democrat" like it's a dirty word is NOT a sunstantiated argument.

Today at the pro terrorist rally in DC I am sure you will see some anti US military signs and the libs will ignore them

What is the actual name of this rally you have referred to in several threads as the "pro-terrorist rally?"

 

[red states rule]

What is the actual name of this rally you have referred to in several threads as the "pro-terrorist rally?"

The pro terrorists rally is being held today in DC. It is sponsored by the usual gang of idiots

Turn on CNN or MSNBC and you will see the glowing coverage. Look at the signs. You will see plenty of anti Bush, anti America, and I suspect, anti US militray

There is a counter protect at the Viet Nam memorial - which get little or no coverage

 

[Gunny]

The pro terrorists rally is being held today in DC. It is sponsored by the usual gang of idiots

Turn on CNN or MSNBC and you will see the glowing coverage. Look at the signs. You will see plenty of anti Bush, anti America, and I suspect, anti US militray

There is a counter protect at the Viet Nam memorial - which get little or no coverage

It is actually called "The pro-terrorists rally"?

 

[red states rule]

It is actually called "The pro-terrorists rally"?

That is what I call it. While there are plenty of anti US, anti Bush, and I suspect anti US military signs, you will not see a single anti terrists sign

You will hear what a rotten conutry the US is, and how the US is to blame for all the problems in Iraq and the world - so I call what it is - and pro terrorist rally

 

[maineman]

and vice-versa. There's fine line where it goes from dissent to disrespect.

again... for reasons I consider well supported and well thought out, I firmly believe that the foreign policy of the Bush administration regarding Iraq and the middle east in general is fatally flawed, and the administration's execution of that foreign policy is inept and incompetent. I would feel EXACTLY the same way, and voice my dissent for that policy and execution thereof if it were that of a liberal democratic president.

I am a partisan lifelong democrat, but my profound disdain for this foreign policy that has led us into Iraq transcends party.

 

[maineman]

and I do not think that, simply because George Bush was briefly a fighter pilot with the Texas Air National Guard training in a plane he KNEW would never be deployed to Vietnam over thirty years ago, I must therefore REFRAIN from voicing my profound disagreement with this flawed policy for fear of being accused of "disrespecting" a fellow veteran. I do not disrespect his past military service in the least. I merely vehemently disagree with his PRESENT performance.