Be Afraid.... Be Very Afraid....

[Annie]

Originally posted by acludem
Oh please, oh please don't tell me you believe the nonsense on this website. You don't think Christians kill people for religious reasons? They have throughout history and continue to do so to this very day.

The real threat to American liberty comes from fundamentalism in ANY context, be it religious or otherwise. Fundamentalism and extremism by their very definition threaten the very democracy, the very free society you seek to protect. This website is one for extremism bashing another form of extremism - also known as the pot calling the kettle black to use an incredibly tired cliche.

Fundamentalist Christians would seek to do many of the exact same things the Taliban did in Afghanistan. They seek to use the power of Government to force their personal religious beliefs on us all. This means you, too, Christians. If you don't subscribe to their personal version of Christianity, look out.

acludem

This is so patently trite and PC it's nearly impossible to reply to, but this nonsense has gone too far.

There is a great difference between a few survivalists or idiotic extremists anti-abortion folks and the '18000' al Queda ready to strike. Yeah, I agree fundamentalists should be prosecuted when possible and monitored after publically threatening or encouraging anarchy. The news is void of widespread illustrations of Christians killing those that hold different religious beliefs.

Don't bother citing Iraq and Afghanistan.

 

[dilloduck]

I think you got pretty exreme on your post to aclu-- If you would have stuck to the battle for relgious supremecy I might agree with you.

 

[brneyedgrl80]

Originally posted by Pale Rider
Calling names? That isn't something "YOU" would ever do is it.....

You're going to run into many opinions you don't agree with here newbie. If every time you read one you give the same knee jerk bull shit you gave me, you're not going to be very popular.

I'm not here to be liked by anyone including you. This is not high school where I need popularity points.

And as far as your authoritarian attitude (was that name calling or just a description of someone's personality? Something to ponder I suppose...) I can tell that you are well liked. The point is is that you gave no information to back up your rants and I was just pointing that out, of course you already knew that didn't you.

As you said, there are many different opinions that you may or may not agree with, but to instantly be crude or rude or what ever you prefer and to ridicule someone who brings up a valid arguement/debate/opposition, does not back up you point, providing information and insight does veteran.

 

[nycflasher]

Originally posted by Pale Rider
You're either just too young or too stupid to know. Or quite possible both.....

And when you have NOTHING to say, call someone stupid.

 

[nycflasher]

Originally posted by Pale Rider
Was this country founded on the islamic religon? Does it say "in allah we trust on our money"? Is there a mosque on every other corner that's been standing there for decades?

NO. NO. And NO.

If you're of the mind to let another religon come to America and dictate what it will do, how it will do it, when it will do it, and to what extent it will do it, then you are selling out the religon that this country was founded on.

I respect you and your opinion, but I have little like for you and your type.

Man. It's a wonder you have lived in this country for so long and yet have no concept of the freedoms we charish here.

This statement couldn't be more vague as well as inaccurate:

"If you're of the mind to let another religon come to America and dictate what it will do, how it will do it, when it will do it, and to what extent it will do it, then you are selling out the religon that this country was founded on."

Letting others practice their religion DOES NOT "sell out" Christianity.

 

[nycflasher]

Originally posted by DKSuddeth
It's the damn Episcopalians, I'm telling you. They started it all. :cof:

No, it's the Amish and the Canadians... silly. One big conspiracy.

 

[JIHADTHIS]

Originally posted by nycflasher
Letting others practice their religion DOES NOT "sell out" Christianity.

Maybe not, but allowing the call to prayer to be broadcast 5 times a day is giving preferential treatment to 1 religion. I think that's the point you are missing.

 

[5stringJeff]

Originally posted by acludem
Oh please, oh please don't tell me you believe the nonsense on this website. You don't think Christians kill people for religious reasons? They have throughout history and continue to do so to this very day.

Where on Earth are Christians killing people for their religious beliefs? How many Christian terrorists ran planes into buildings or detonated suicide bombs today?

 

[007]

Originally posted by brneyedgrl80
I'm not here to be liked by anyone including you. This is not high school where I need popularity points.

And as far as your authoritarian attitude (was that name calling or just a description of someone's personality? Something to ponder I suppose...) I can tell that you are well liked. The point is is that you gave no information to back up your rants and I was just pointing that out, of course you already knew that didn't you.

As you said, there are many different opinions that you may or may not agree with, but to instantly be crude or rude or what ever you prefer and to ridicule someone who brings up a valid arguement/debate/opposition, does not back up you point, providing information and insight does veteran.

This board is FILLED with people saying exactly WHAT they want, HOW they want. And for your information little miss Judge Judy, I didn't "instantly" DO ANYTHING! If you weren't a NEWIE here you'd know that I am at odds with certain people's opinions here, and I get the same crap from them each time no matter what the subject. So your reaction is UNINFORMED and OUT OF LINE! Get a clue before you open that sassy cake hole of yours.

Now unless you want me to return your unwarranted personal attacks and make this very unpleasant for the both of us, take it somewhere else.

 

[brneyedgrl80]

Originally posted by Pale Rider
This board is FILLED with people saying exactly WHAT they want, HOW they want. And for your information little miss Judge Judy, I didn't "instantly" DO ANYTHING! If you weren't a NEWIE here you'd know that I am at odds with certain people's opinions here, and I get the same crap from them each time no matter what the subject. So your reaction is UNINFORMED and OUT OF LINE! Get a clue before you open that sassy cake hole of yours.

Now unless you want me to return your unwarranted personal attacks and make this very unpleasant for the both of us, take it somewhere else.

Personally I find this quite pleasant. From my stand point you are already return my so-called attacks. This is a debate forum, there is no need to get heated. And on a side, this being a free country and all that everyone is here to defend I think I'll stay where I'm at and not take this anywhere.

I remember back in high school being on debate team, one of the first rules we learned was to never take anything personally, and that's exactly what I'm doing. I'll be awaiting you rebuttal.

And I never quite understood how cakehole is such a negative with such a sweet name. Maybe I'll take it as a compliment, thanks!

 

[brneyedgrl80]

Originally posted by gop_jeff
Where on Earth are Christians killing people for their religious beliefs? How many Christian terrorists ran planes into buildings or detonated suicide bombs today?

I think when certain Christian/anti-abortionists kill doctors and patients by blowing up buildings where abortions take place is killing for religious purposes. There's one quick example I think of while I'm at work.

 

[007]

Originally posted by brneyedgrl80
Personally I find this quite pleasant. From my stand point you are already return my so-called attacks. This is a debate forum, there is no need to get heated. And on a side, this being a free country and all that everyone is here to defend I think I'll stay where I'm at and not take this anywhere.

I remember back in high school being on debate team, one of the first rules we learned was to never take anything personally, and that's exactly what I'm doing. I'll be awaiting you rebuttal.

And I never quite understood how cakehole is such a negative with such a sweet name. Maybe I'll take it as a compliment, thanks!

Now that's quite a different tone. I can live with that. I don't want to carry anything on that isn't worth it.

I'll deffinitely respond to you when I have something worth saying to you.

 

[007]

Originally posted by brneyedgrl80
I think when certain Christian/anti-abortionists kill doctors and patients by blowing up buildings where abortions take place is killing for religious purposes. There's one quick example I think of while I'm at work.

Can you really equate ONE WACKO bombing an abortion clinic to the Islamic Jihad?

 

[Annie]

The following attempt at equivalency fails in every regard other than those that kill are murderers. The examples cited are criminals, what the subject at hand is terrorism. If the extreme Muslims were in like numbers, I don't think we would be having these discussions.

According to a think tank out of London yesterday, one that is not geared toward 'conservatives' there are 18k al Queda world wide ready to meet Allah while taking out others. Yeah, I do know their point was that the war 'created' them, unfortunately for their argument they were trained in Afghanistan camps prior to the war.

Originally posted by brneyedgrl80
I think when certain Christian/anti-abortionists kill doctors and patients by blowing up buildings where abortions take place is killing for religious purposes. There's one quick example I think of while I'm at work.

 

[brneyedgrl80]

I think somewhere we'll see eye to eye, just not politically, lol

 

[brneyedgrl80]

Okay, here's another one. Adolf Hitler was Catholic (to some not Christian, to other's Christian, though he referred to himself of the Christian faith through Catholicism.)

He believed that he was doing the Lord's work by getting rid of vermin which would obviously be the Jews (no offence to anyone, just taking what has been written by Adolf Hitler.) Simply because the Jews killed Jesus. All this, obviously ties into religious purposes for genocide.

Edit:

Here's the excerpt's

As he said himself:

The folkish-minded man, in particular, has the sacred duty, each in his own denomination, of making people stop just talking superficially of God's will, and actually fulfil God's will, and not let God's word be desecrated. [original italics]

For God's will gave men their form, their essence, and their abilities. Anyone who destroys His work is declaring war on the Lord's creation, the divine will. Therefore, let every man be active, each in his own denomination if you please, and let every man take it as his first and most sacred duty to oppose anyone who in his activity by word or deed steps outside the confines of his religious community and tries to butt into the other.

[...]

Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord. [original italics]


[Adolf Hitler, from "Mein Kampf", translation by Ralph Mannheim.]

Hitler certainly appeared at times to be a theist, and claimed to be a Christian:

The Führer made it known to those entrusted with the Final Solution that the killings should be done as humanely as possible. This was in line with his conviction that he was observing God's injunction to cleanse the world of vermin. Still a member in good standing of the Church of Rome despite detestation of its hierarchy ("I am now as before a Catholic and will always remain so" [quoting Hitler]), he carried within him its teaching that the Jew was the killer of God. The extermination, therefore, could be done without a twinge of conscience since he was merely acting as the avenging hand of God -- so long as it was done impersonally, without cruelty.


[John Toland (Pulitzer Prize winner),
from "Adolf Hitler", pp 507, talking about the Autumn of 1941.]

The "I am now as before a Catholic..." quotation from Hitler was recorded in the diary of Gerhard Engel, an SS Adjutant, in October 1941. Hitler was speaking in private, not before a mass audience, and so it is difficult to dismiss the comment as propaganda lies.

Of course, I'm taking into account that Hitler could have easily been lying about being Catholic, but who knows...

 

[freeandfun1]

Originally posted by Kathianne
According to a think tank out of London yesterday, one that is not geared toward 'conservatives' there are 18k al Queda world wide ready to meet Allah while taking out others. Yeah, I do know their point was that the war 'created' them, unfortunately for their argument they were trained in Afghanistan camps prior to the war.

The way they arrived at that number is by taking the estimated 20,000 that were trained by Al Queda BEFORE 9-11 and subtracting the 2,000 +/- that we have killed. So, as you know (I know you were being sarcastic so don't worry, I know how you stand on this), the war could not have created them if they were trained before 9-11 and our invasion of Afganistan.

I read the article and they contradicted themselves in it. Typcical of the Bush bashers.

 

[freeandfun1]

Hitler's mother was Jewish.

You are taking the words of a deranged man (by the way, nothing he says can be attributed to the Bible. The Bible is clear that the Jews are God's chosen people and will survive no matter what) and attributing them to a religion. Also, you forget that it was Christian nations that shut him down.

Hitler was not using the Bible to justify his actions as the Muslims are using the Quaran. He was just blabbing crap and expecting people to agree. He used no verses, nothing, to back up his claims. IF ANYTHING, he was an evil man masquerading as a Christian. BIG, BIG DIFFERENCE!

In Islam, you don't see the Muslims policing themselves.

 

[Annie]

Okay, here's another one. Adolf Hitler was Catholic (to some not Christian, to other's Christian, though he referred to himself of the Christian faith through Catholicism.)

Brwn

Not exactly:

Was Hitler a Christian?
By John Baskette - but the information came from Marty Helgesen in a soc.religion.christian post.

The claim is sometimes made that Hitler was a Christian - a Roman Catholic until the day he died. In fact, Hitler rejected Christianity.

The book Hitler's Secret Conversations 1941-1944 published by Farrar, Straus and Young, Inc.first edition, 1953, contains definitive proof of Hitler's real views. The book was published in Britain under the title, _Hitler's Table Talk 1941-1944, which title was used for the Oxford University Press paperback edition in the United States.

All of these are quotes from Adolf Hitler:

Night of 11th-12th July, 1941:

National Socialism and religion cannot exist together.... The heaviest blow that ever struck humanity was the coming of Christianity. Bolshevism is Christianity's illegitimate child. Both are inventions of the Jew. The deliberate lie in the matter of religion was introduced into the world by Christianity.... Let it not be said that Christianity brought man the life of the soul, for that evolution was in the natural order of things. (p 6 & 7)

10th October, 1941, midday:

Christianity is a rebellion against natural law, a protest against nature. Taken to its logical extreme, Christianity would mean the systematic cultivation of the human failure. (p 43)

14th October, 1941, midday:

The best thing is to let Christianity die a natural death.... When understanding of the universe has become widespread... Christian doctrine will be convicted of absurdity.... Christianity has reached the peak of absurdity.... And that's why someday its structure will collapse.... ...the only way to get rid of Christianity is to allow it to die little by little.... Christianity the liar.... We'll see to it that the Churches cannot spread abroad teachings in conflict with the interests of the State. (p 49-52)

19th October, 1941, night:

The reason why the ancient world was so pure, light and serene was that it knew nothing of the two great scourges: the pox and Christianity.

21st October, 1941, midday:

Originally, Christianity was merely an incarnation of Bolshevism, the destroyer.... The decisive falsification of Jesus' doctrine was the work of St.Paul. He gave himself to this work... for the purposes of personal exploitation.... Didn't the world see, carried on right into the Middle Ages, the same old system of martyrs, tortures, faggots? Of old, it was in the name of Christianity. Today, it's in the name of Bolshevism. Yesterday the instigator was Saul: the instigator today, Mardochai. Saul was changed into St.Paul, and Mardochai into Karl Marx. By exterminating this pest, we shall do humanity a service of which our soldiers can have no idea. (p 63-65)

13th December, 1941, midnight:

Christianity is an invention of sick brains: one could imagine nothing more senseless, nor any more indecent way of turning the idea of the Godhead into a mockery.... .... When all is said, we have no reason to wish that the Italians and Spaniards should free themselves from the drug of Christianity. Let's be the only people who are immunised against the disease. (p 118 & 119)

14th December, 1941, midday:

Kerrl, with noblest of intentions, wanted to attempt a synthesis between National Socialism and Christianity. I don't believe the thing's possible, and I see the obstacle in Christianity itself.... Pure Christianity-- the Christianity of the catacombs-- is concerned with translating Christian doctrine into facts. It leads quite simply to the annihilation of mankind. It is merely whole-hearted Bolshevism, under a tinsel of metaphysics. (p 119 & 120)

9th April, 1942, dinner:

There is something very unhealthy about Christianity (p 339)

27th February, 1942, midday:

It would always be disagreeable for me to go down to posterity as a man who made concessions in this field. I realize that man, in his imperfection, can commit innumerable errors-- but to devote myself deliberately to errors, that is something I cannot do. I shall never come personally to terms with the Christian lie. Our epoch Uin the next 200 yearse will certainly see the end of the disease of Christianity.... My regret will have been that I couldn't... behold ." (p 278)

http://answers.org/apologetics/hitquote.html

 

[Annie]

Hitler's mother was Jewish.

There were always rumors that a grandfather of Hitler's was Jewish, but that has never been confirmed. Has the aura of Urban Legend to it, but no Snopes back then.

He did have a Jewish doctor for his early life. As far as historically determined, Hitler developed his anti-Semitism in Vienna, while failing as an artist. Vienna at the time was rabidly anti-Semetic, with literature being handed out like the Hare Krishnas did leaflets in the 1970's.

Hitler was very pragmatic as a politician, until about 1943. Anti-Semitism happened to be popular and the basis for his 'Big Lie.'