whitehall
Diamond Member
Dougout Doug was safely in Australia while General Wainwright was left holding the bag for the surrender of U.S. forces in the Philippines.
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One of my closest friends was on Iwo and I never saw any indication of his believing he was forgotten.An example of real heroes in WW2 in the Pacific were the (forgotten) guys on Iwo Jima where "Uncommon Valor was a common virtue". The poor bastards who were left to surrender and rot on Bataan weren't heroes, they were pathetic survivors.
An example of real heroes in WW2 in the Pacific were the (forgotten) guys on Iwo Jima where "Uncommon Valor was a common virtue". The poor bastards who were left to surrender and rot on Bataan weren't heroes, they were pathetic survivors.
They would be the first to tell you that they weren't heroes but victims of Mac's incompetence (and cowardice?) if you could find any today. You gotta get your mind right about the concept of heroism vs survival. A guy who is forced to pick the peanuts out of human shit and eat God knows what in order to survive isn't a hero, he is a survivor with an incredible will to live.An example of real heroes in WW2 in the Pacific were the (forgotten) guys on Iwo Jima where "Uncommon Valor was a common virtue". The poor bastards who were left to surrender and rot on Bataan weren't heroes, they were pathetic survivors.
I am sure the survivors from Bataan are glad to hear that you don't think that they are heroes but pathetic survivors.
Always good to hear from the armchair quarterbacks 70 years later.
Marines like your friend will always be heroes to their friends and family (and society) but their mission is all but forgotten and the phrase "uncommon valor" has faded into memory.One of my closest friends was on Iwo and I never saw any indication of his believing he was forgotten.An example of real heroes in WW2 in the Pacific were the (forgotten) guys on Iwo Jima where "Uncommon Valor was a common virtue". The poor bastards who were left to surrender and rot on Bataan weren't heroes, they were pathetic survivors.
They would be the first to tell you that they weren't heroes but victims of Mac's incompetence (and cowardice?) if you could find any today. You gotta get your mind right about the concept of heroism vs survival. A guy who is forced to pick the peanuts out of human shit and eat God knows what in order to survive isn't a hero, he is a survivor with an incredible will to live.An example of real heroes in WW2 in the Pacific were the (forgotten) guys on Iwo Jima where "Uncommon Valor was a common virtue". The poor bastards who were left to surrender and rot on Bataan weren't heroes, they were pathetic survivors.
I am sure the survivors from Bataan are glad to hear that you don't think that they are heroes but pathetic survivors.
Always good to hear from the armchair quarterbacks 70 years later.
Air Force Chaplain Robert Taylor was truly a hero of the Bataan Death March and an inspiration to the survivors who he ministered to. I bet somebody can come up with maybe a dozen names of other heroes. The sad truth is that not everyone who survived Bataan can be considered a hero just because he was forced to surrender and suffered horribly..
My Uncle survived the march, if you want to call what he endured the rest of his life survival.
Ended up drinking himself to death. Can’t count the times I heard him ask why he was allowed to live while he watched so many of his friends die.
He earned a special place in my heart and I’m sure he finally found peace in heaven.
Air Force Chaplain Robert Taylor was truly a hero of the Bataan Death March and an inspiration to the survivors who he ministered to. I bet somebody can come up with maybe a dozen names of other heroes. The sad truth is that not everyone who survived Bataan can be considered a hero just because he was forced to surrender and suffered horribly..My Uncle survived the march, if you want to call what he endured the rest of his life survival.
Ended up drinking himself to death. Can’t count the times I heard him ask why he was allowed to live while he watched so many of his friends die.
He earned a special place in my heart and I’m sure he finally found peace in heaven.
But I am sure he would have found solace in Whitehall explaining he wasn't a 'hero' he was just a survivor'
Air Force Chaplain Robert Taylor was truly a hero of the Bataan Death March and an inspiration to the survivors who he ministered to. I bet somebody can come up with maybe a dozen names of other heroes. The sad truth is that not everyone who survived Bataan can be considered a hero just because he was forced to surrender and suffered horribly..My Uncle survived the march, if you want to call what he endured the rest of his life survival.
Ended up drinking himself to death. Can’t count the times I heard him ask why he was allowed to live while he watched so many of his friends die.
He earned a special place in my heart and I’m sure he finally found peace in heaven.
But I am sure he would have found solace in Whitehall explaining he wasn't a 'hero' he was just a survivor'
You took it far differently than I.
I will guarantee you, he never felt like a hero although he was treated as one.
There are probably a thousand examples of uncommon valor that never qualified for an award simply because uncommon valor was a common virtue in some arenas of combat in WW2. I'm sorry but a survivor of a sad legacy of political incompetence and surrender doesn't rise to the level of hero.
Air Force Chaplain Robert Taylor was truly a hero of the Bataan Death March and an inspiration to the survivors who he ministered to. I bet somebody can come up with maybe a dozen names of other heroes. The sad truth is that not everyone who survived Bataan can be considered a hero just because he was forced to surrender and suffered horribly..My Uncle survived the march, if you want to call what he endured the rest of his life survival.
Ended up drinking himself to death. Can’t count the times I heard him ask why he was allowed to live while he watched so many of his friends die.
He earned a special place in my heart and I’m sure he finally found peace in heaven.
But I am sure he would have found solace in Whitehall explaining he wasn't a 'hero' he was just a survivor'
You took it far differently than I.
I will guarantee you, he never felt like a hero although he was treated as one.
And how do you think he would feel about this thread?
MacArthur was in charge. He was the freaking general who should have spent every waking hour preparing for the mission of protecting his Army from destruction. He should have been subject to a court martial after being evacuated but he was awarded the MOH. Go figure.For anyone to disparage any US soldier that was in the Philippines and was captured is disgusting. They fought a brilliant retreat back to the Bataan peninsula and held out for months, until their supplies ran out. Just as with the Marines on Wake at the beginning of the war who fought extremely well, sank two Japanese destroyers with a handful of 5" guns on Wake, and only surrendered to vastly superior numbers of enemy that had plentiful supplies and ammunition two weeks later.
The US forces at Bataan beat the hell out of the Japs until they ran low on supplies and ammunition.
MacArthur left because he was ordered to leave. His capture and/or death would not have made any difference re the Bataan death march.
MacArthur was in charge. He was the freaking general who should have spent every waking hour preparing for the mission of protecting his Army from destruction. He should have been subject to a court martial after being evacuated but he was awarded the MOH. Go figure.For anyone to disparage any US soldier that was in the Philippines and was captured is disgusting. They fought a brilliant retreat back to the Bataan peninsula and held out for months, until their supplies ran out. Just as with the Marines on Wake at the beginning of the war who fought extremely well, sank two Japanese destroyers with a handful of 5" guns on Wake, and only surrendered to vastly superior numbers of enemy that had plentiful supplies and ammunition two weeks later.
The US forces at Bataan beat the hell out of the Japs until they ran low on supplies and ammunition.
MacArthur left because he was ordered to leave. His capture and/or death would not have made any difference re the Bataan death march.