Baseball HOF anomalies

[rightwinger]

For Pitchers 3 Cy Young Awards and 3000 Ks is automatic first ballot HOF

Pedro has a winning percentage of .687 and an ERA below 3.00 , he has over 100 more wins than losses.

He also posted two seasons with an ERA below 2.00 during the peak of the steroid era.

Automatic first ballot HOF...no question

 

[Andrew2382]

He is for sure a hall of famer...first ballot or not is on the border.

I wouldn't be in shock if it was and I wouldn't be shocked if he wasn't

 

[del]

Rice doesn't belong in the hall, teh guy was a DH.

Rice certainly does belong in the HoF. If it were up to you, no Red Sox players would be in there huh?

No, but guys that don't belong shouldn't be in.

Rice is not a HoF, he got in because the vets felt sorry for him.

he wasn't a veteran selection- he got in via the usual route.

 

[Xenophon]

For Pitchers 3 Cy Young Awards and 3000 Ks is automatic first ballot HOF

Pedro has a winning percentage of .687 and an ERA below 3.00 , he has over 100 more wins than losses.

He also posted two seasons with an ERA below 2.00 during the peak of the steroid era.

Automatic first ballot HOF...no question

Sorry, that is NOT an automatic.

Listen to teh sportswriters, if you don't have longivity you ain't getting in.

You are too caught up in the moment, too many players these days are called 'hall of famers.'

You can't get past the FACT Martinez has only 219 wins and has been horrible for five years.

Not only is he NOT 'first ballot' he's not HoF at all.

 

[Modbert]

There are only two real locks at the moment that should get 100% of the vote to be in the HoF. Rivera and Griffey.

 

[Xenophon]

Rice certainly does belong in the HoF. If it were up to you, no Red Sox players would be in there huh?

No, but guys that don't belong shouldn't be in.

Rice is not a HoF, he got in because the vets felt sorry for him.

he wasn't a veteran selection- he got in via the usual route.

Last year of eligigabilty wasn't it?

 

[Modbert]

Sorry, that is NOT an automatic.

Listen to teh sportswriters, if you don't have longivity you ain't getting in.

You are too caught up in the moment, too many players these days are called 'hall of famers.'

You can't get past the FACT Martinez has only 219 wins and has been horrible for five years.

Not only is he NOT 'first ballot' he's not HoF at all.

Still haven't told me how many people with 200+ wins, 3,000+ strikeouts, 3 Cy Youngs, and the leader in both Wins/Strikeouts for years hasn't made the HoF.

Pedro Martinez was a great pitcher from 1993 to 2005 definitely. He was injured in 2006 which was a long time coming.

Martinez is also only one of three pitches (Johnston and Ryan) to have more strikeouts than innings pitched.

And in 2009, with his win in September, he became the 10th pitcher in History to win 100 games in each league.

Here's a stat straight from wiki for you:

Philadelphia won each of Martinez's first seven starts, the only time in franchise history since 1900 that this had occurred with any debuting Phillies pitcher.[14]

So 13 years isn't a long time anymore?

 

[Modbert]

Besides, you just can't judge a player based on wins or simple statistics like that only.

Otherwise Trevor Hoffman is a better closer than Rivera. And the argument could be further made because Hoffman played for SD while Rivera had a great lineup in NY.

However, when you take all other factors into play, Rivera is a better all time closer.

 

[Xenophon]

Unless pedro comes somewhere near 300 wins he isn't getting in.

219 isn't cutting it, neither is 230.

He wants in, he has to reach at least 250 or he's not even in the conversation.

 

[Andrew2382]

Eh I am not a fan of judging a pitcher on the amount of wins he has.

I'll take a guy with a 2.50 ERA and 100 wins over a guy with a 3.70 era with 300 wins....pitcher can't control his run support.

Pedro Career ERA is under 3 I believe?

He had some injuries and missed some years...was considered one of the dominant pitchers over a span of 3-4 years.

He will get in...whether it's first ballot or not is up in the air. I'd say no at this point.

You also gotta remember he has 2 world series rings with a possible 3rd on the way..that goes for a lot also

 

[Xenophon]

And instead of tossing out pedro awards, looks at the hard numbers:

Pedro Martinez Statistics and History - Baseball-Reference.com

Only 2 20 win seasons, his first 6 years in the Bigs he was just another pitcher, a 7 year window of being really good, and 6 more average years.

Notice also that his numbers just suddenly jump down in 97 and pop up in 04, oddly enough just as would happen to a juicer who started to keep his average career going and stopped when he was caught.

 

[Andrew2382]

yeah but take a closer look at that

for a span of 9 years 97-2005

His ERA was under 3 every year with the exception of 1 and sported an era under 2 for 2 of those years....that is absurdly good. I would like to know if a pitcher has been able to match that in modern baseball history.

3000 k's is also a big thing on his resume.

He will def get in the hall dude...but I agree with you I don't think he is first ballot material but who knows

 

[Xenophon]

He isn't getting in with 219 wins.

It's that simple.

And as you look at the numbers you see he wasn't that lights out, and that ERA matter is highly suspect, he suddenly figurs it out in his 6th year, and losses it just as fast?

Pedro wants in, he will have to pitch at least 2 more years and win 30 or more games, or its no way.

 

[Xenophon]

yeah but take a closer look at that

for a span of 9 years 97-2005

His ERA was under 3 every year with the exception of 1 and sported an era under 2 for 2 of those years....that is absurdly good. I would like to know if a pitcher has been able to match that in modern baseball history.

3000 k's is also a big thing on his resume.

He will def get in the hall dude...but I agree with you I don't think he is first ballot material but who knows

If you are a Yankee fan you saw it.

Guidry from 77-83.

Ron even had more career shutouts then Pedro.

Are we putting Gator in the hall of fame now?

Ron Guidry Statistics and History - Baseball-Reference.com

 

[Modbert]

Unless pedro comes somewhere near 300 wins he isn't getting in.

219 isn't cutting it, neither is 230.

He wants in, he has to reach at least 250 or he's not even in the conversation.

This is where the homer in you seems to be creeping in. The fact you dismiss him so easily tells me something is up.

 

[Xenophon]

The fact you dismiss him so easily tells me something is up.

Yes, its called knowing baseball.

Pitchers with 219 wins aern't going to the hall no matter how dominant they were for a few years.

The hall is a career achivement, you have to be dominant over a LOT of years, not a handful.

 

[Andrew2382]

yeah but take a closer look at that

for a span of 9 years 97-2005

His ERA was under 3 every year with the exception of 1 and sported an era under 2 for 2 of those years....that is absurdly good. I would like to know if a pitcher has been able to match that in modern baseball history.

3000 k's is also a big thing on his resume.

He will def get in the hall dude...but I agree with you I don't think he is first ballot material but who knows

If you are a Yankee fan you saw it.

Guidry from 77-83.

Ron even had more career shutouts then Pedro.

Are we putting Gator in the hall of fame now?

Ron Guidry Statistics and History - Baseball-Reference.com

I know what you are saying and you make a valid point...however a couple difference between the 2

Guidry had some sick years but only 4 fantastic years with era's in the 2's and 1's


Pedro had 8 of them..7 in a row in a much better hitting league ( the steroid era)....I'm justs aying it's very impressive and he has a shot at the hall...I don't think hall of fame but he def has a shot

 

[Xenophon]

yeah but take a closer look at that

for a span of 9 years 97-2005

His ERA was under 3 every year with the exception of 1 and sported an era under 2 for 2 of those years....that is absurdly good. I would like to know if a pitcher has been able to match that in modern baseball history.

3000 k's is also a big thing on his resume.

He will def get in the hall dude...but I agree with you I don't think he is first ballot material but who knows

If you are a Yankee fan you saw it.

Guidry from 77-83.

Ron even had more career shutouts then Pedro.

Are we putting Gator in the hall of fame now?

Ron Guidry Statistics and History - Baseball-Reference.com

I know what you are saying and you make a valid point...however a couple difference between the 2

Guidry had some sick years but only 4 fantastic years with era's in the 2's and 1's


Pedro had 8 of them..7 in a row in a much better hitting league ( the steroid era)....I'm justs aying it's very impressive and he has a shot at the hall...I don't think hall of fame but he def has a shot

That's asumming Pedro wasn't juicing.

I'll say it again, pedro doesn't have enough wins to make it to the hall.

Over half his career he was just another pitcher.

He doesn't belong, same as Gator doesn't, or Donnie Baseball, or Rajah or a lot of other guys who had great years but not great careers.

 

[Modbert]

Until there is concrete evidence, you can't make a concrete argument saying he was a juicing.

Pedro was one of the best pitchers in the Steroid Era, the HoF should also take into consideration.

 

[Andrew2382]

Catfish Hunter—(1965-1979)—(224-166; 3.26 ERA; ERA+ 104; 42 SHO; 3449 IP/ 2958 H/ 7.7 H/9; 2.11 ratio; WHIP 1.134) Hunter is here because of his relatively low win total of 224 and the second lowest ERA+ of 104—only 4 percent better than league average for his career.

Bob lemon- (1946-1958)—(207-128; 3.23 ERA; ERA+ 119; 31 SHO; 2850 IP/ 2559 BB/ 8.1 H/9; 1277 K/ 1251 BB/ 1.02 ratio; 1.337 WHIP)



there are pitchers in the hall who have low wins