Baseball HOF anomalies

[Modbert]

Catfish Hunter—(1965-1979)—(224-166; 3.26 ERA; ERA+ 104; 42 SHO; 3449 IP/ 2958 H/ 7.7 H/9; 2.11 ratio; WHIP 1.134) Hunter is here because of his relatively low win total of 224 and the second lowest ERA+ of 104—only 4 percent better than league average for his career.

Bob lemon- (1946-1958)—(207-128; 3.23 ERA; ERA+ 119; 31 SHO; 2850 IP/ 2559 BB/ 8.1 H/9; 1277 K/ 1251 BB/ 1.02 ratio; 1.337 WHIP)



there are pitchers in the hall who have low wins

And Pedro has better overall numbers than both it can be debated.

 

[Xenophon]

Catfish Hunter—(1965-1979)—(224-166; 3.26 ERA; ERA+ 104; 42 SHO; 3449 IP/ 2958 H/ 7.7 H/9; 2.11 ratio; WHIP 1.134) Hunter is here because of his relatively low win total of 224 and the second lowest ERA+ of 104—only 4 percent better than league average for his career.

Bob lemon- (1946-1958)—(207-128; 3.23 ERA; ERA+ 119; 31 SHO; 2850 IP/ 2559 BB/ 8.1 H/9; 1277 K/ 1251 BB/ 1.02 ratio; 1.337 WHIP)



there are pitchers in the hall who have low wins

Hunter won 21 or more 5 straight years, Pedro only did it twice. But IMO Catfish didn't belong.

Lemon was also a 5 time 20 game winner.

 

[del]

No, but guys that don't belong shouldn't be in.

Rice is not a HoF, he got in because the vets felt sorry for him.

he wasn't a veteran selection- he got in via the usual route.

Last year of eligigabilty wasn't it?

yes, it was, then it would have gone to the vets. personally, i think he belongs, but you probably expected that.

 

[Xenophon]

he wasn't a veteran selection- he got in via the usual route.

Last year of eligigabilty wasn't it?

yes, it was, then it would have gone to the vets. personally, i think he belongs, but you probably expected that.

I still remmeber the HR he hit off guidry in 77 to break a scorless tie at the old stadium.

NOBODY tagged Gator like that, before or since, it was one of only 3 losses Ron had that year.

 

[Andrew2382]

Catfish Hunter—(1965-1979)—(224-166; 3.26 ERA; ERA+ 104; 42 SHO; 3449 IP/ 2958 H/ 7.7 H/9; 2.11 ratio; WHIP 1.134) Hunter is here because of his relatively low win total of 224 and the second lowest ERA+ of 104—only 4 percent better than league average for his career.

Bob lemon- (1946-1958)—(207-128; 3.23 ERA; ERA+ 119; 31 SHO; 2850 IP/ 2559 BB/ 8.1 H/9; 1277 K/ 1251 BB/ 1.02 ratio; 1.337 WHIP)



there are pitchers in the hall who have low wins

Hunter won 21 or more 5 straight years, Pedro only did it twice. But IMO Catfish didn't belong.

Lemon was also a 5 time 20 game winner.

yeah but dude...now you are sort of contradicting yourself...you said its based over a career not over a few short great years....Over their career Catfish and Lemon shouldn't be in the hall with those types of wins.

There's also like 7 other pitchers with wins under 250 in the hall from the old days of baseball but it was a diff time back then

 

[Xenophon]

The wins by year is what jumps out at me with pedro.

14
13
17
19
23
18
7
20
14
16
15

For all that ERA and Ks, he should have been winning 20 every year.

 

[Modbert]

yeah but dude...now you are sort of contradicting yourself...you said its based over a career not over a few short great years....Over their career Catfish and Lemon shouldn't be in the hall with those types of wins.

There's also like 7 other pitchers with wins under 250 in the hall from the old days of baseball but it was a diff time back then

I wasn't the only one to notice that then.

 

[del]

Last year of eligigabilty wasn't it?

yes, it was, then it would have gone to the vets. personally, i think he belongs, but you probably expected that.

I still remmeber the HR he hit off guidry in 77 to break a scorless tie at the old stadium.

NOBODY tagged Gator like that, before or since, it was one of only 3 losses Ron had that year.

he was a scary hitter until his eyes started to go. if they'd had lasix surgery 20 years ago, he'd have kept his average above .300 and gotten the 400 HR, imo.

guidry was koufax like for a couple of years in the 70's- louisiana lightning.

 

[Modbert]

The wins by year is what jumps out at me with pedro.

14
13
17
19
23
18
7
20
14
16
15

For all that ERA and Ks, he should have been winning 20 every year.

And he would of if the Sox Offense didn't suck so badly at times.

 

[Paulie]

The wins by year is what jumps out at me with pedro.

14
13
17
19
23
18
7
20
14
16
15

For all that ERA and Ks, he should have been winning 20 every year.

What about all the years with the Expos who couldn't BUY a run?

 

[Modbert]

What about all the years with the Expos who couldn't BUY a run?

That too. I almost forgot about that.

 

[Xenophon]

Catfish Hunter—(1965-1979)—(224-166; 3.26 ERA; ERA+ 104; 42 SHO; 3449 IP/ 2958 H/ 7.7 H/9; 2.11 ratio; WHIP 1.134) Hunter is here because of his relatively low win total of 224 and the second lowest ERA+ of 104—only 4 percent better than league average for his career.

Bob lemon- (1946-1958)—(207-128; 3.23 ERA; ERA+ 119; 31 SHO; 2850 IP/ 2559 BB/ 8.1 H/9; 1277 K/ 1251 BB/ 1.02 ratio; 1.337 WHIP)



there are pitchers in the hall who have low wins

Hunter won 21 or more 5 straight years, Pedro only did it twice. But IMO Catfish didn't belong.

Lemon was also a 5 time 20 game winner.

yeah but dude...now you are sort of contradicting yourself...you said its based over a career not over a few short great years....Over their career Catfish and Lemon shouldn't be in the hall with those types of wins.

There's also like 7 other pitchers with wins under 250 in the hall from the old days of baseball but it was a diff time back then

No I'm not.

Look at the years pitched for both.

Hunter only pitched 15 years. Lemon only pitched 13.

Pedro ALREADY has 18 years of service.

7 great years, 11 average or less.

NOT HOF worthy.

 

[Andrew2382]

The wins by year is what jumps out at me with pedro.

14
13
17
19
23
18
7
20
14
16
15

For all that ERA and Ks, he should have been winning 20 every year.

come on dude...you know the game like I do.

You can have 25 wins a year if you have run support of 6 games...I would like to know what his run support was during those years...because if you are sporting an ERA of under 3...and don't have a lot of wins your offense isn't producing for you.

thats not the pitchers problem

 

[Xenophon]

The wins by year is what jumps out at me with pedro.

14
13
17
19
23
18
7
20
14
16
15

For all that ERA and Ks, he should have been winning 20 every year.

come on dude...you know the game like I do.

You can have 25 wins a year if you have run support of 6 games...I would like to know what his run support was during those years...because if you are sporting an ERA of under 3...and don't have a lot of wins your offense isn't producing for you.

thats not the pitchers problem

Pedro was with the high scoring Red Sox for the bulk of those, he had plenty of run support.

Run support is a dodge anyway, Seaver pitched his entire career without it and won 300+.

 

[del]

i never realized bob feller won less than 300.

 

[Modbert]

Let's put it this way:

In 1997, Martínez posted a 17–8 record for the Expos, and led the league in half a dozen pitching categories, including a 1.90 ERA, 305 strikeouts and 13 complete games pitched, and became the only Expo ever to win the National League Cy Young Award. Pedro Martínez was also the first right-handed pitcher to reach 300 strikeouts with an ERA under 2.00 since Walter Johnson in 1912.

If you're THAT good and have 8 losses and only 17 wins, you must have virtually no run support. Especially when 13 of those 17 wins were complete games.

I don't care how much of a homer you are, 1.90 ERA and 8 losses is telling.

 

[Xenophon]

i never realized bob feller won less than 300.

He lost 4 prime years to WWII, that is at least 40 wins, and he had 266 so without the war he would have had it.

 

[Andrew2382]

I don't know man...I go by the ERA first.

I'll take the guy with a 2.5 era and 100 wins over the guy with a 4.5 era and 300 wins any day of the week.

 

[Xenophon]

Let's put it this way:

In 1997, Martínez posted a 17–8 record for the Expos, and led the league in half a dozen pitching categories, including a 1.90 ERA, 305 strikeouts and 13 complete games pitched, and became the only Expo ever to win the National League Cy Young Award. Pedro Martínez was also the first right-handed pitcher to reach 300 strikeouts with an ERA under 2.00 since Walter Johnson in 1912.

If you're THAT good and have 8 losses and only 17 wins, you must have virtually no run support. Especially when 13 of those 17 wins were complete games.

I don't care how much of a homer you are, 1.90 ERA and 8 losses is telling.

Are you aware the Spos had a decent team that year, including having 4 players with 20+ HR?
1997 Montreal Expos Batting, Pitching, & Fielding Statistics - Baseball-Reference.com

 

[del]

i never realized bob feller won less than 300.

He lost 4 prime years to WWII, that is at least 40 wins, and he had 266 so without the war he would have had it.

good point. i think he belongs anyway; some of those old newsreels of him pitching faster than a speeding _______ are very cool.