SpidermanTuba
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- #41
When are you going to learn how to properly use the English language?
When are you going to learn how to not be a smart ass?
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When are you going to learn how to properly use the English language?
Since the President decided to make the Iraq war a partisan issue.
It seems to me that for the most part the military recruiting for a volunteer service has more closely reflected the US as a whole:I realize that my prior post was a bit inflammatory and - you must have also figured out - a little tongue in cheek.
given the fact that I am a lifelong democrat, my father was a lifelong democrat, and given the fact that both of us DID serve in an organization that was and still is dominated by republicans... it does stick in my craw a bit that young collegiate republicans do seem to find excuses for letting others go in harm's way in their stead in this war. That frustration is real, and the bile it creates is also real.
I submitt if you asked flat out do you wish we could leave Iraq it would be 100%
Its all in how you ask the question.
...
Thats not true, the believe in it, they just don't believe anyone of their "station" should have to stoop to it.
When are you going to learn how to not be a smart ass?
Here's a question for all young able bodied Republicans who have never had or are not currently serving in the military.
When are you signing up?
And I believe that if the question was posed as, "Would you support the idea of a graduated withdrawal from Iraq over the next two years, recognizing the violence that would follow would be much worse than occurred prior to the surge, would lead to a multi-national race to fill the vacuum that would be left, and US foreign policy would be destroyed for at least a generation?" we might find very different results. You're right, it's all in the question asked.
Thats not true, the believe in it, they just don't believe anyone of their "station" should have to stoop to it.
That's bullshit, and you know it.
Ya, I am sure, I mean we have no examples of leaders of the liberal left and the democratic party bad mouthing or looking down on Military service.
Democrats don't believe in the military.
Dems believe in violating kids and allowing illegals to come here and enjoy the advantages some citizens do not even have.
im a dem and I dont believe in either of those things.
I guess that makes you wrong.
whose ass did you fall out of?
(1) There is undoubtedly a difference between Left and Right on the question of the military. However, it is more complicated than various partisan charges of "hypocrisy", "cowardice", "class hatred", "class privilege", or even "treason", can encompass.
Well said.
(2) As a bit of background, keep in mind that there a spread of opinion on both the Left and the Right.
There are people on the Left who positively hate the American political/economic system and the state which defends that system, and who draw, towards the military -- the core of the state -- the appropriate and logical conclusions. Conservatives sometimes call these folks the "hate America" Left, and this is not wrong, but the phrase is easily misinterpreted and often misused. (There have been Far Leftists who literally hated the American people -- or its white component -- but the Far Left generally, in fact, does not hate ordinary Americans. They hate the system America is the most prototypical example of, and main defender in the world of.)
Moving towards the center from these people, are various sorts of pacifists, semi-pacifists, left-liberals, Nation magazine liberals, old fashioned patriotic Democratic Party liberals, and even pro-war liberal hawks.
So we have to be careful about whom we are talking when we use the blanket term "liberal". (It is also the case that liberals are peculiarly susceptible to being led by the better-organized, more seriously-committed Far Left. So even though the Far Left actually despises liberals, and does not constitute a large percentage of the American population -- or even of the whole Left -- it can exert influence far in excess of its numbers.)
I would add that the situation is not static either. People being what they are, they tend to wander across the spectrum (to a certain degree). There are no clear lines defining which category a person falls into.
(3) We also have to distinguish liberal/Left hatred of war in the abstract, from their attitude towards the American military. In general, the Left, which believes that man can achieve unlimited perfection given the right nurturing environment (to be provided by the state), sees war either as an unnecessary, irrational evil, preventable if we all just got around a table and talked; or as something undertaken by greedy ruling classes, fought by poor people to benefit rich people.
Utopian ideals only work in a Utopian world (IMO). That is not to say that man should not strive for the environment you describe (isn't that what most religious dogma is all about?) but it is also clear to me that such an environment is probably not achievable as long as mankind carries the less desirable characteristics we know so well.
(4)On the Right, there has been a strain, especially among the ruling aristocracy, which positively glorified war. This is why Churchill lamented that war, "which used to be cruel and magnificent" had become in the 20th Century "cruel and squalid". No true Right-winger can deny that his heart lifts when he sees movies of jingling cavalry and marching infantry.
Historically, this may be true. I can see where some may hold some vestige of pride in military strength (especially those who have never "seen the elephant"). Any true right winger that has actually seen that marching infantry in action has an entirely different view ... of that I am certain!
At the same time, we must not overlook the "anti-war Right" -- those Old Right paleocons and ultra-libertarians who eschew American empire-building (as they see it), especially if it is in part motivated by a concern for the welfare of the you-know-who's. Some of them tend to see the military as just another nationalized industry, and share the same attitude towards the world that pacifists do: everything would be fine if we just tended to our own affairs.
I suppose that, in general, this is true. I think though that neither the pacifists nor the anti-war right really mean what they say. "Tending to our own affairs" can mean anything from true isolation to global engagement. I have heard arguments for both.
But the main attitude of the modern Right is that conflict, and with it the possibility of war, is unavoidable in human affairs, given the nature of man. And that the United States must be stronger than its opponents.
I fall into this category most of the time. I am not so certain I am part of the "modern Right" as I suspect there are far more facets to the right than this particular one.
This attitude remains true for conservatives, regardless of their opinion about the wisdom of trying to build a new Switzerland on the Tigris.
I am not certain this is true, despite your assertions. I am certainly somewhere on the right side of the spectrum described in (1) and (2) and am what some would consider a conservative but I hardly subscribe to the philosophy you lay out above. None of the conservatives I know believe that either.
NEXT: Who serves? Who Should Serve? Does the "Yellow Elephant" argument have merit?
can we expect any intelligence coming from you anytime soon?
(3) We also have to distinguish liberal/Left hatred of war in the abstract, from their attitude towards the American military. In general, the Left, which believes that man can achieve unlimited perfection given the right nurturing environment (to be provided by the state), sees war either as an unnecessary, irrational evil, preventable if we all just got around a table and talked; or as something undertaken by greedy ruling classes, fought by poor people to benefit rich people.