Armed Citizens

[nraforlife]

huntsville, al -

after casing the location on two previous visits, an armed robber entered the chazz liquor store in florence, ala. And attempted to strong-arm the clerk. An altercation ensued in which the clerk was able to retrieve a gun and fire at the criminal, striking the robber and causing him to flee. In his escape, the criminal only made it to the store parking lot, where he collapsed and died. After an initial investigation, police determined that the robber was on probation for a previous robbery conviction. Chazz manager terry rhodes hoped that the incident would deter future robbery attempts, stating, “i know times are hard and everything, but i hope they'll think twice, because this is not something anybody enjoys doing. You don't want to kill anybody, but sometimes you're afraid for your life, you don't know what they're gonna do.” police do not plan to charge the clerk.




Anniston, al -

a woman was alone in her home in piedmont, ala., when she heard a suspicious noise. After retrieving a handgun, the woman searched the house and noticed that her sliding glass door had been broken and a man with a flashlight was inside the home. The intruder yelled something at the homeowner, who then shot the intruder several times, killing him. Police noted that it is unlikely the homeowner will face any charges, with calhoun county sheriff larry amerson stating, “she was totally within her rights to defend herself.”




Birmingham, al -

career criminal kevin duane dudley entered the bait shop in bessemer, ala., drew a sawed-off shotgun and demanded money from the owner. While dudley was holding the owner at gunpoint, two customers walked into the store, distracting dudley long enough for the store owner to grab his pistol. The owner then fired at dudley, striking and killing him. After an investigation, it was shown that dudley had been convicted of robbery in 1996 and spent time in prison. More recently, dudley had been a suspect in a number of other armed robberies as well as a murder

billings, montana -

...............................

link?

 

[George Costanza]

huntsville, al -

after casing the location on two previous visits, an armed robber entered the chazz liquor store in florence, ala. And attempted to strong-arm the clerk. An altercation ensued in which the clerk was able to retrieve a gun and fire at the criminal, striking the robber and causing him to flee. In his escape, the criminal only made it to the store parking lot, where he collapsed and died. After an initial investigation, police determined that the robber was on probation for a previous robbery conviction. Chazz manager terry rhodes hoped that the incident would deter future robbery attempts, stating, “i know times are hard and everything, but i hope they'll think twice, because this is not something anybody enjoys doing. You don't want to kill anybody, but sometimes you're afraid for your life, you don't know what they're gonna do.” police do not plan to charge the clerk.




Anniston, al -

a woman was alone in her home in piedmont, ala., when she heard a suspicious noise. After retrieving a handgun, the woman searched the house and noticed that her sliding glass door had been broken and a man with a flashlight was inside the home. The intruder yelled something at the homeowner, who then shot the intruder several times, killing him. Police noted that it is unlikely the homeowner will face any charges, with calhoun county sheriff larry amerson stating, “she was totally within her rights to defend herself.”




Birmingham, al -

career criminal kevin duane dudley entered the bait shop in bessemer, ala., drew a sawed-off shotgun and demanded money from the owner. While dudley was holding the owner at gunpoint, two customers walked into the store, distracting dudley long enough for the store owner to grab his pistol. The owner then fired at dudley, striking and killing him. After an investigation, it was shown that dudley had been convicted of robbery in 1996 and spent time in prison. More recently, dudley had been a suspect in a number of other armed robberies as well as a murder

billings, montana -

...............................

link?

This never happened. I made it up to illustrate the danger of arming citizens, who might use guns improperly, against other citizens.

 

[rightwinger]

There are times being armed helps a situation and times when it makes matters worse. Gun owners prepare for that rare situation when their lives may depend on an armed response. Sometimes they are right...others not

 

[rightwinger]

My main problem with being armed at all times is that sometimes the best response is no response. Swallowing your pride and walking away is often the best response in a conflict

When you are carrying a gun, walking away is not the macho thing to do. Carrying a gun means...I ain't going to take no shit from nobody

Unnecessary gunfire often results

 

[westwall]

My main problem with being armed at all times is that sometimes the best response is no response. Swallowing your pride and walking away is often the best response in a conflict

When you are carrying a gun, walking away is not the macho thing to do. Carrying a gun means...I ain't going to take no shit from nobody

Unnecessary gunfire often results

It hasn't yet. Please show us three instances where a person carrying a legal concealed weapon lost control and escalated a verbal confrontation into a shooting match. As anti gun as the media is you should have no problem finding three instances. But I doubt you'll be able to.

 

[BenNatuf]

Huntsville, AL -

After casing the location on two previous visits, an armed robber entered the Chazz liquor store in Florence, Ala. and attempted to strong-arm the clerk. An altercation ensued in which the clerk was able to retrieve a gun and fire at the criminal, striking the robber and causing him to flee. In his escape, the criminal only made it to the store parking lot, where he collapsed and died. After an initial investigation, police determined that the robber was on probation for a previous robbery conviction. Chazz manager Terry Rhodes hoped that the incident would deter future robbery attempts, stating, “I know times are hard and everything, but I hope they'll think twice, because this is not something anybody enjoys doing. You don't want to kill anybody, but sometimes you're afraid for your life, you don't know what they're gonna do.” Police do not plan to charge the clerk.




Anniston, AL -

A woman was alone in her home in Piedmont, Ala., when she heard a suspicious noise. After retrieving a handgun, the woman searched the house and noticed that her sliding glass door had been broken and a man with a flashlight was inside the home. The intruder yelled something at the homeowner, who then shot the intruder several times, killing him. Police noted that it is unlikely the homeowner will face any charges, with Calhoun County Sheriff Larry Amerson stating, “She was totally within her rights to defend herself.”




Birmingham, AL -

Career criminal Kevin Duane Dudley entered the Bait Shop in Bessemer, Ala., drew a sawed-off shotgun and demanded money from the owner. While Dudley was holding the owner at gunpoint, two customers walked into the store, distracting Dudley long enough for the store owner to grab his pistol. The owner then fired at Dudley, striking and killing him. After an investigation, it was shown that Dudley had been convicted of robbery in 1996 and spent time in prison. More recently, Dudley had been a suspect in a number of other armed robberies as well as a murder

Billings, Montana -

Out for a Sunday morning drive with his wife and two children, Buford Harris was feeling good. It was a beautiful day, Buford's wife, Clara, was in the seat next to him, singing happily and, best of all, Buford had his trusty, .357 magnum right next to him there in the center console, loaded and ready for whatever trouble might come Buford's way.

Directly behind Buford was a pickup truck being driven by Billy Bob Cutler, another married man. There were only two occupants of the Cutler vehicle - Billy Bob and his fully loaded and ready for whatever trouble might come his way, .38 caliber, Glock, semi-automatic handgun.

Buford was driving a tad slower than Billy Bob. Billy Bob went to pass Buford. As he did so, Buford sped up to prevent Billy Bob from passing him. Billy Bob looked over at Buford and shot him a dirty look as he sped up even faster. As Buford flipped Billy Bob off, Billy Bob cut sharply in front of him, causing Buford to have to brake sharply.

This was trouble. Both men instantly pulled up their respective fire arms and began firing at each other. When it was all over, Buford's wife was dead, one of his children was blinded for life and Billy Bob was in a coma. He would die three weeks later.

Thank GOD Montana has a law authorizing citizens to carry weapons. Think what would have happened if that had not been the case . . .

No law is neccessary to authorize citizens to carry weapons. Aside from that the criminal acts of one person cannot be used to negate the rights of the lawful.

 

[rightwinger]

My main problem with being armed at all times is that sometimes the best response is no response. Swallowing your pride and walking away is often the best response in a conflict

When you are carrying a gun, walking away is not the macho thing to do. Carrying a gun means...I ain't going to take no shit from nobody

Unnecessary gunfire often results

It hasn't yet. Please show us three instances where a person carrying a legal concealed weapon lost control and escalated a verbal confrontation into a shooting match. As anti gun as the media is you should have no problem finding three instances. But I doubt you'll be able to.

You are joking I assume..

Fights in bars, minor car accidents, arguments between neighbors all are made worse when one or both of the parties are armed.

And the answer is no......not all gun owners are responsible

 

[Zoom-boing]

Just remember, kids . . . criminals prefer their victims armless.

 

[Anachronism]

My main problem with being armed at all times is that sometimes the best response is no response. Swallowing your pride and walking away is often the best response in a conflict

When you are carrying a gun, walking away is not the macho thing to do. Carrying a gun means...I ain't going to take no shit from nobody

Unnecessary gunfire often results

I'm not so sure I agree with your final statement there, rw.

I carry a gun almost every time I leave my apartment. I have for going on 12 years now. I have a firearm and other self-defense tools at my disposal pretty much at all times. In that time I've gotten into many arguements with people, had many disagreements, etc... and I have NEVER ONCE felt any need to reach for a gun to settle them.

There are only two times where I have even come close to thinking that I might be faced with a situation requiring a violent response. Thankfully both of them were able to be handled through more polite means before it reached that point. However, on those two occasions I was very thankful to know that if things did go bad, I was in a position to defend myself if necessary.

 

[rightwinger]

My main problem with being armed at all times is that sometimes the best response is no response. Swallowing your pride and walking away is often the best response in a conflict

When you are carrying a gun, walking away is not the macho thing to do. Carrying a gun means...I ain't going to take no shit from nobody

Unnecessary gunfire often results

I'm not so sure I agree with your final statement there, rw.

I carry a gun almost every time I leave my apartment. I have for going on 12 years now. I have a firearm and other self-defense tools at my disposal pretty much at all times. In that time I've gotten into many arguements with people, had many disagreements, etc... and I have NEVER ONCE felt any need to reach for a gun to settle them.

There are only two times where I have even come close to thinking that I might be faced with a situation requiring a violent response. Thankfully both of them were able to be handled through more polite means before it reached that point. However, on those two occasions I was very thankful to know that if things did go bad, I was in a position to defend myself if necessary.

I have no problems with you carrying a gun if you think you need one. My point is that one or both parties being armed in a confrontation does not generally lead to the best resolution

 

[Anachronism]

I have no problems with you carrying a gun if you think you need one. My point is that one or both parties being armed in a confrontation does not generally lead to the best resolution

I would suggest that depends on what you consider the "best" solution....

The first of those two times that I was happy to have the gun, was in the middle of December in 2000. I was doing some Christmas shopping at a downtown mall in the early evening of a Saturday, and had decided to park in the metered lot behind the local Library rather than take out a loan to pay for the parking garage. As I returned to my car, I found two large men leaning on the hood of my car. This was about 7:30 on a Saturday evening, there were only a handful of other cars in the lot, and these gentlemen looked like they were definitely waiting for someone.

As I approached the parking lot I loudly asked the two men to step away from MY vehicle. They both turned and looked at me, but didn't move. As I got a little closer, I made the rather forceful request a second time. They still did not move. As I got within about 12-15 yards from the vehicle I stopped, moved my hand to the edge of my jacket and once again made the request. This time I informed them that I was armed. THAT got their attention and they moved away from the vehicle post haste.

Without being armed, that situation might have turned out very differently. If nothing else I would have stood there for half an hour to an hour waiting for a police officer to arrive to alleviate the situation.

 

[rightwinger]

I have no problems with you carrying a gun if you think you need one. My point is that one or both parties being armed in a confrontation does not generally lead to the best resolution

I would suggest that depends on what you consider the "best" solution....

The first of those two times that I was happy to have the gun, was in the middle of December in 2000. I was doing some Christmas shopping at a downtown mall in the early evening of a Saturday, and had decided to park in the metered lot behind the local Library rather than take out a loan to pay for the parking garage. As I returned to my car, I found two large men leaning on the hood of my car. This was about 7:30 on a Saturday evening, there were only a handful of other cars in the lot, and these gentlemen looked like they were definitely waiting for someone.

As I approached the parking lot I loudly asked the two men to step away from MY vehicle. They both turned and looked at me, but didn't move. As I got a little closer, I made the rather forceful request a second time. They still did not move. As I got within about 12-15 yards from the vehicle I stopped, moved my hand to the edge of my jacket and once again made the request. This time I informed them that I was armed. THAT got their attention and they moved away from the vehicle post haste.

Without being armed, that situation might have turned out very differently. If nothing else I would have stood there for half an hour to an hour waiting for a police officer to arrive to alleviate the situation.

It worked out and I am glad nothing happened. If one or both of them were armed it could have turned out differently

As you pointed out, an unarmed citizen who was intimidated by the situation could have left and come back with the police

 

[Anachronism]

It worked out and I am glad nothing happened. If one or both of them were armed it could have turned out differently.

Yes, it could have. I was prepared for that potential, though thankful that it didn't occur. I have always had the mentality that if I cannot (or will not) protect my life and my property, then I don't deserve to have either.

As you pointed out, an unarmed citizen who was intimidated by the situation could have left and come back with the police

I try not to waste the time of the police with my personal safety. I also had better things to be doing with my time that evening than waiting an hour for a cop to show up.

 

[rightwinger]

It worked out and I am glad nothing happened. If one or both of them were armed it could have turned out differently.

Yes, it could have. I was prepared for that potential, though thankful that it didn't occur. I have always had the mentality that if I cannot (or will not) protect my life and my property, then I don't deserve to have either.

As you pointed out, an unarmed citizen who was intimidated by the situation could have left and come back with the police

I try not to waste the time of the police with my personal safety. I also had better things to be doing with my time that evening than waiting an hour for a cop to show up.

You make your choices in life. If one of those is to never walk away from a conflict then you are more likely to get into a situation where a life gets taken Could be you....could be the other guy

 

[Anachronism]

You make your choices in life. If one of those is to never walk away from a conflict then you are more likely to get into a situation where a life gets taken Could be you....could be the other guy

Yes we all do. I have no problem walking away from a conflict, when that's the right thing to do. I do not have a problem settling things in a non-violent manner. That is always the first option. However, I am not going to allow other people to negatively influence my life simply because I'm not willing to stand up for myself, my property, and my rights. There are a lot worse ways to leave this world than to do so while protecting yourself, your property, your family and/or friends.

 

[George Costanza]

I try not to waste the time of the police with my personal safety

That is precisely what the police are for - protecting the safety of citizens. You would not have been wasting their time. I submit the police would much prefer to come out and kick a couple of jerks off of your car than they would to come out and investigate a shooting - regardless of the reason for the shooting.

And what would you have done if they had still not moved, you had pulled out your weapon and they had just looked at you, laughed, and said fuck you?

 

[westwall]

My main problem with being armed at all times is that sometimes the best response is no response. Swallowing your pride and walking away is often the best response in a conflict

When you are carrying a gun, walking away is not the macho thing to do. Carrying a gun means...I ain't going to take no shit from nobody

Unnecessary gunfire often results

It hasn't yet. Please show us three instances where a person carrying a legal concealed weapon lost control and escalated a verbal confrontation into a shooting match. As anti gun as the media is you should have no problem finding three instances. But I doubt you'll be able to.

You are joking I assume..

Fights in bars, minor car accidents, arguments between neighbors all are made worse when one or both of the parties are armed.

And the answer is no......not all gun owners are responsible

No. I'm not kidding. People who carry concealed weapons have to undergo background checks to make sure they have no criminal background. There was only one bar shooting I could find and surprisingly enough it happened here in Winnemucca Nevada when a man walked into a bar and shot two brothers to death, he was then engaged by a patron of the bar and likewise killed. The three men's families had been engaged in a long running feud of many years.

The bar was filled with over 300 people and two innocent bystanders were wounded as well. The prompt action of the patron (who held a valid Washoe County CCW) no doubt spared many more injuries and possible deaths.

Three Men Killed in Winnemucca Shooting on Sunday - KTVN Channel 2 - Reno Tahoe News Weather, Video -

If what you are saying is true, show us the evidence. Show us where those situations have escalated into violence with just one person holding a CCW. Just one of those please.

 

[westwall]

My main problem with being armed at all times is that sometimes the best response is no response. Swallowing your pride and walking away is often the best response in a conflict

When you are carrying a gun, walking away is not the macho thing to do. Carrying a gun means...I ain't going to take no shit from nobody

Unnecessary gunfire often results

I'm not so sure I agree with your final statement there, rw.

I carry a gun almost every time I leave my apartment. I have for going on 12 years now. I have a firearm and other self-defense tools at my disposal pretty much at all times. In that time I've gotten into many arguements with people, had many disagreements, etc... and I have NEVER ONCE felt any need to reach for a gun to settle them.

There are only two times where I have even come close to thinking that I might be faced with a situation requiring a violent response. Thankfully both of them were able to be handled through more polite means before it reached that point. However, on those two occasions I was very thankful to know that if things did go bad, I was in a position to defend myself if necessary.

I have no problems with you carrying a gun if you think you need one. My point is that one or both parties being armed in a confrontation does not generally lead to the best resolution

And in the case of people carrying firearms who hold valid CCW's you have zero evidence to back up your assertions. Look up Vermont why don't you. In Vermont (and now Arizona) you don't even need to have a CCW to carry a concealed weapon. Anyone can do it but if you were carrying a firearm to commit a crime then they get to add that as well. But if you are just carrying concealed because you want to is up to you. Look up Vermont and see how many neighbor disputes escalated into gunplay.

 

[Momanohedhunter]

My main problem with being armed at all times is that sometimes the best response is no response. Swallowing your pride and walking away is often the best response in a conflict

When you are carrying a gun, walking away is not the macho thing to do. Carrying a gun means...I ain't going to take no shit from nobody

Unnecessary gunfire often results

It hasn't yet. Please show us three instances where a person carrying a legal concealed weapon lost control and escalated a verbal confrontation into a shooting match. As anti gun as the media is you should have no problem finding three instances. But I doubt you'll be able to.

Only one comes to mind for me. Years ago, a guy shot another guy after a fender bender. The one who was shot was huge, and the guy that did the shooting was small. In the end it was justified because due to the victems size it was deturmined that the smaller guy would have been badly hurt or killed. CCW holders are not the cowboys many here would make them out to be. They have to take a class and undergo trainning. They dont just get to signe a paper and stuff a Glock in there belt and hit the road. Here is a link for the Texas DPS-

TxDPS - CHL Reports & Statistics

You can get an idea of the reality behind CCW. You also need to remember that if a CCW gets a DUI he gets his card pulled, and if he breaks the law it gets pulled.

 

[westwall]

I try not to waste the time of the police with my personal safety

That is precisely what the police are for - protecting the safety of citizens. You would not have been wasting their time. I submit the police would much prefer to come out and kick a couple of jerks off of your car than they would to come out and investigate a shooting - regardless of the reason for the shooting.

And what would you have done if they had still not moved, you had pulled out your weapon and they had just looked at you, laughed, and said fuck you?

No, George they're not. There is no legal responsibilty on the part of police to protect you. None. Below are many cases fully referenced that show the police have no legal obligation for the protection of the individual citizen. I suggest you read a few of them.


Police Have No Duty to Protect Individuals

Court Says No Protection Required

Taking On Gun Control - Do You Have a Right to Police Protection?

Legal Snares for the Unwary Law-Abiding Citizen