Are You More Or Less "Free" In A Society That

[Mini 14]

Essentially REQUIRES an individual to have good credit to do/have practically anything.

Aka, an abode, whether rent or own, a car, access to loans (well, this one more understandable), and many other things that decades ago was not necessary.

I honestly don't know what my credit score is, and couldn't care less. The last time I bought anything on credit was 1986 (a truck, which was paid off in 1990), although I do use an AMEX card regularly, paying the balance in full each month since then. My AMEX is a charge card, not a credit card. I have purchased cars with it, but the balance is due at the end of the month, and it is always paid. If we don't have the cash to pay for something, including houses, we keep saving until we do.

Anyone still using credit, or thinking credit is a viable option moving forward, deserves what is coming.

So, to answer your question, if you chose to play the game, then you chose to submit yourself to the rules of the game. I chose to use no credit, so those rules do not apply to me. I am "Free" by your definition.

 

[manifold]

Essentially REQUIRES an individual to have good credit to do/have practically anything.

Aka, an abode, whether rent or own, a car, access to loans (well, this one more understandable), and many other things that decades ago was not necessary.

What do you need good credit to do besides be extended credit?

 

[Meister]

So far TWO RWers responded...not ONE answered the question directly.

Let's see what else happens.

Yes, you are more free if you have good credit....as it should be.

 

[shintao]

You're not going to get a mortgage now unless your credit is absolutely sparkling, dude. One little wart and you're done.

It's tighter now that it was before this whole subprime shit pile started.

Ya need to clean up your own mess with the credit reporting agencies, and use a few legal means to clear the report and boost your score, but it can be done.

 

[MarcATL]

Essentially REQUIRES an individual to have good credit to do/have practically anything.

Aka, an abode, whether rent or own, a car, access to loans (well, this one more understandable), and many other things that decades ago was not necessary.

I honestly don't know what my credit score is, and couldn't care less. The last time I bought anything on credit was 1986 (a truck, which was paid off in 1990), although I do use an AMEX card regularly, paying the balance in full each month since then. My AMEX is a charge card, not a credit card. I have purchased cars with it, but the balance is due at the end of the month, and it is always paid. If we don't have the cash to pay for something, including houses, we keep saving until we do.

Anyone still using credit, or thinking credit is a viable option moving forward, deserves what is coming.

So, to answer your question, if you chose to play the game, then you chose to submit yourself to the rules of the game. I chose to use no credit, so those rules do not apply to me. I am "Free" by your definition.

Lucky you. You're particular and unique circumstances, geography, history and life station affords you that luxury of not using or "beating the system."

What about the millions who don't?

 

[Dis]

The job thing is a little gray. All things being equal, what could you deduce about someone who doesn't pay his bills on time, assuming he can because, say, he was already employed? How much can government demand employers do?

Simply that he's irresponsible... Someone irresponsible in their personal life is just as likely to be irresponsible in their professional life. Given a choice of two applicants equally qualified for the same job; one with a better credit score than the other, which do you think I'd hire? Hell, if you're honest with yourself, which would YOU hire?

 

[shintao]

So far TWO RWers responded...not ONE answered the question directly.

Let's see what else happens.

Yes, you are more free if you have good credit....as it should be.

And what you espouse is "free of Corporations," not government. But it is an open admission of who is running America today and how close we are to the company store syndrome.

 

[Meister]

The use of other people's money on your terms is an "essential" of life?

Dimwit...getting a job should NOT be contingent upon your credit score. Nor should getting an abode.

It may NOT be contingent on a credit score, but it will show the character of the person

 

[shintao]

The job thing is a little gray. All things being equal, what could you deduce about someone who doesn't pay his bills on time, assuming he can because, say, he was already employed? How much can government demand employers do?

Simply that he's irresponsible... Someone irresponsible in their personal life is just as likely to be irresponsible in their professional life. Given a choice of two applicants equally qualified for the same job; one with a better credit score than the other, which do you think I'd hire? Hell, if you're honest with yourself, which would YOU hire?

Shouldn't that be the risk of doing business, and not the loss of American citizen privacy rights?? Why should a corporation be privey to anymore than a legal employment application requires?

 

[Meister]

So far TWO RWers responded...not ONE answered the question directly.

Let's see what else happens.

Yes, you are more free if you have good credit....as it should be.

And what you espouse is "free of Corporations," not government. But it is an open admission of who is running America today and how close we are to the company store syndrome.

Is it government that loans money, or is it corporations? Does the government sell you the washer and dryer or is it corporations? Is it government that sells trucks, or is it corporations? Is it government that sells heavy equipment, or is it corporations? Live in the reality, yes, good credit score equates to more freedoms

 

[shintao]

Bullshit. The credit markets were not dysfunctional until someone decided the use of other people's money was an entitlement.

So when did the stock market begin?

 

[Dis]

The job thing is a little gray. All things being equal, what could you deduce about someone who doesn't pay his bills on time, assuming he can because, say, he was already employed? How much can government demand employers do?

Simply that he's irresponsible... Someone irresponsible in their personal life is just as likely to be irresponsible in their professional life. Given a choice of two applicants equally qualified for the same job; one with a better credit score than the other, which do you think I'd hire? Hell, if you're honest with yourself, which would YOU hire?

Shouldn't that be the risk of doing business, and not the loss of American citizen privacy rights?? Why should a corporation be privey to anymore than a legal employment application requires?

Self-preservation. People flat out lie on applications. Any further information one can gather only helps them in making the right choice.

I run every applicant I'm considering interviewing through CCAP just to see if they're lying.. What do you know.. approx. 10% lie... Oh, and since I hire *very* carefully, and use every resource at my disposal, whether they know it or not, my turn over rate for the last 3 years has been zero. Can't get better odds than that.

 

[shintao]

Yes, you are more free if you have good credit....as it should be.

And what you espouse is "free of Corporations," not government. But it is an open admission of who is running America today and how close we are to the company store syndrome.

Is it government that loans money, or is it corporations? Does the government sell you the washer and dryer or is it corporations? Is it government that sells trucks, or is it corporations? Is it government that sells heavy equipment, or is it corporations? Live in the reality, yes, good credit score equates to more freedoms

My point is that corporations control your freedoms like the other enity, the government. The only way to escape both is pay cash & give up credit. But you will never be as free as the illegal alien is in America.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

You're not going to get a mortgage now unless your credit is absolutely sparkling, dude. One little wart and you're done.

It's tighter now that it was before this whole subprime shit pile started.

Well I would hope it is more difficult.
It should be difficult to borrow $10,000's or $100,000.

 

[Mini 14]

Essentially REQUIRES an individual to have good credit to do/have practically anything.

Aka, an abode, whether rent or own, a car, access to loans (well, this one more understandable), and many other things that decades ago was not necessary.

I honestly don't know what my credit score is, and couldn't care less. The last time I bought anything on credit was 1986 (a truck, which was paid off in 1990), although I do use an AMEX card regularly, paying the balance in full each month since then. My AMEX is a charge card, not a credit card. I have purchased cars with it, but the balance is due at the end of the month, and it is always paid. If we don't have the cash to pay for something, including houses, we keep saving until we do.

Anyone still using credit, or thinking credit is a viable option moving forward, deserves what is coming.

So, to answer your question, if you chose to play the game, then you chose to submit yourself to the rules of the game. I chose to use no credit, so those rules do not apply to me. I am "Free" by your definition.

Lucky you. You're particular and unique circumstances, geography, history and life station affords you that luxury of not using or "beating the system."

What about the millions who don't?

Luck has nothing to do with it. In 1986, I was 24 years old, with 12K in the bank and making 40k/year. I made a conscious decision that credit wasn't smart money (unless you could get 0%). It has worked out well for me, though I can't count the days I had to "go without" because I didn't have the cash to go and get whatever I wanted NOW. What if you go out today and finance a home for 300K, based on your income, then get hit by a bus tomorrow?

Your wife will have to pay for the house, or be homeless.

Mine will bury me, then come back home to the house she owned the day she unlocked the door. But mine had to "do without" for a long time to help get us into that position.

Luck has absolutely nothing to do with it. ANYONE can do what I did, but it isn't an easy or convenient choice to make.

 

[Meister]

And what you espouse is "free of Corporations," not government. But it is an open admission of who is running America today and how close we are to the company store syndrome.

Is it government that loans money, or is it corporations? Does the government sell you the washer and dryer or is it corporations? Is it government that sells trucks, or is it corporations? Is it government that sells heavy equipment, or is it corporations? Live in the reality, yes, good credit score equates to more freedoms

My point is that corporations control your freedoms like the other enity, the government. The only way to escape both is pay cash & give up credit. But you will never be as free as the illegal alien is in America.

WTF? Corporations can allow you to attain your freedoms. Not many people have, let's say money in the bank for a house or heavy equipment. Corporations can help, if you have the credit. Go ahead and pay cash....for what you can afford.
Have you ever seen a van full of illegals get in a wreck? They scatter like flies, I guess you can call that freedom. I've seen it, but it didn't look anything like freedom to me.

 

[shintao]

Simply that he's irresponsible... Someone irresponsible in their personal life is just as likely to be irresponsible in their professional life. Given a choice of two applicants equally qualified for the same job; one with a better credit score than the other, which do you think I'd hire? Hell, if you're honest with yourself, which would YOU hire?

Shouldn't that be the risk of doing business, and not the loss of American citizen privacy rights?? Why should a corporation be privey to anymore than a legal employment application requires?

Self-preservation. People flat out lie on applications. Any further information one can gather only helps them in making the right choice.

I run every applicant I'm considering interviewing through CCAP just to see if they're lying.. What do you know.. approx. 10% lie... Oh, and since I hire *very* carefully, and use every resource at my disposal, whether they know it or not, my turn over rate for the last 3 years has been zero. Can't get better odds than that.

Like I said, "Shouldn't that be the risk of doing business, and not the loss of American citizen privacy rights?? " You have no right to people's credit scores unless they authorize you to search there. Public records is another matter, but essentially you have no right to violate a persons privacy beyond an employment application. Only if they surrender that right to you. If you and your company were sued, you would lose the case in court.

 

[Dis]

Shouldn't that be the risk of doing business, and not the loss of American citizen privacy rights?? Why should a corporation be privey to anymore than a legal employment application requires?

Self-preservation. People flat out lie on applications. Any further information one can gather only helps them in making the right choice.

I run every applicant I'm considering interviewing through CCAP just to see if they're lying.. What do you know.. approx. 10% lie... Oh, and since I hire *very* carefully, and use every resource at my disposal, whether they know it or not, my turn over rate for the last 3 years has been zero. Can't get better odds than that.

Like I said, "Shouldn't that be the risk of doing business, and not the loss of American citizen privacy rights?? " You have no right to people's credit scores unless they authorize you to search there. Public records is another matter, but essentially you have no right to violate a persons privacy beyond an employment application. Only if they surrender that right to you. If you and your company were sued, you would lose the case in court.

There are hundreds of risks to doing business... The smart person that gets ahead minimizes them as much as humanly possible to ensure there IS a business for the future.

 

[Mini 14]

Proof of insurance is the newest thing I require of all applicants. If they don't have it, or aren't willing to provide it, I'll take that into consideration when reviewing their application. I no longer provide insurance, but I do offer an expense allowance to those who provide their own.

Since everyone will eventually be REQUIRED to have coverage, it won't be long before there is a check-box and information section on standard applications for your insurance info. And it will be a legally accepted qualifier for ineligibility with private employers.

 

[Sallow]

Essentially REQUIRES an individual to have good credit to do/have practically anything.

Aka, an abode, whether rent or own, a car, access to loans (well, this one more understandable), and many other things that decades ago was not necessary.

Decades ago, people actually had a sense of right & wrong, and carried a conscience, and worked for those things they wanted. Today, everyone is under the misguided assumption that they're "entitled".

Which "decade" are you referring too? Avarice is both universal and timeless..