Are you a race realist or a race denier?

[JoeMoma]

Wrong.

It is a settled and accepted fact of science, beyond dispute, that there is no such thing as ‘race’; consequently, there are no ‘differences’ concerning something that doesn’t exist.

“[G]iven current scientific data, biological races do not exist among modern humans today, and they have never existed in the past.”

Why Are We Divided by Race When There Is No Such Thing?

‘Race’ therefore exists solely as a human construct, a contrivance intended to divide people and justify hostility toward those perceived to be ‘different.’

Such is the reprehensible right and its pathetic efforts to defend the racist Trump – to ‘defend’ the indefensible.

This was a thread about science, not PC zealotry. Please go away, dear god... you are literally denying your own eyes, too dumb to read.

To be fair, at least C_Clayton provided some sort of evidence. In this "thread about science," you have made some claims about science without providing evidence of them.

No, Clayton wanted it both ways. His point was that Race wasn't but Racism was. You can't have it both ways.

Maybe, but race can not exist as a biological classification yet be real from a social standpoint. Perhaps more importantly, even if race is not a real thing, people can still treat it as if it is. I can't say what Clayton was intending.

Ancestry is lying to millions of people about their DNA tests if race is not real....not biological (DNA is biological).

 

[JoeMoma]

I guess you can put me down as a race realist in that I believe there are stastical differences between races when certain attributes are studied. I believe that as a group, white people tend to be taller than Asian people. That is not to say there are not any really tall Asian people, because there are. I believe that as a group, blacks have a statistical advantage in athleticism to whites. That is not to say there aren’t any extremely athleletic whites and some blacks that aren’t athletic. Just look at the make up of the NBA and NFL for evidence of which race has the advantage in athleticism. Which race has a stastical advantage in intelligence is taboo, so I’m not even going there.

With the above being said, as long as we treat everyone as individuals with the same opportunities, it really doesn’t matter.

 

[Billy_Kinetta]

Scientifically the issue is settled: There are differences between races and the differences didn't stop at the neck. Particularly Asians are very intelligent, whites somewhere in the middle, blacks the bottom tire (on average, of course).

So how many here accept this reality, and how many live in denial?

I've known too many highly intelligent, successful people of all races to hold group membership responsible.

 

[The Irish Ram]

I have a genetically high IQ. Without my parents developing it, I would be an idiot.
If white or black children were raised by Asian parents, they would all see an increase in their intelligence.
Asian children that did not qualify for elementary school ended up in rice fields. They had no choice but to comprehend early in life. Asian parents that move here, insist that their children excel. So, they are expected to and do become proficient.
That degree of impetus is not visited on white children, and even less in blacks and Hispanics.

Of course... intelligence is both genetic and environmental, or rather a combination of genes and environment.

Given your story, it's no surprise that Asians developed genetically high intellect. The ones who weren't intelligent continued to the fields to die a slow gruesome death. Sounds like the blessing is the consequence of immense suffering.

Children committed suicide if the didn't get into school, or did poorly once they were there. The, either or consequence has relaxed somewhat, but the parents still demand excellence and hard work from their offspring.
Here they go to school, then work in their parent's business, then homework until bedtime. Not a lot of free time to get into trouble, instead, respectful, well educated, purpose driven children which are a blessing.

 

[Doc1]

Scientifically the issue is settled: There are differences between races and the differences didn't stop at the neck. Particularly Asians are very intelligent, whites somewhere in the middle, blacks the bottom tire (on average, of course).

So how many here accept this reality, and how many live in denial?

Wrong.

It is a settled and accepted fact of science, beyond dispute, that there is no such thing as ‘race’; consequently, there are no ‘differences’ concerning something that doesn’t exist.

“[G]iven current scientific data, biological races do not exist among modern humans today, and they have never existed in the past.”

Why Are We Divided by Race When There Is No Such Thing?

‘Race’ therefore exists solely as a human construct, a contrivance intended to divide people and justify hostility toward those perceived to be ‘different.’

Such is the reprehensible right and its pathetic efforts to defend the racist Trump – to ‘defend’ the indefensible.

This was a thread about science, not PC zealotry. Please go away, dear god... you are literally denying your own eyes, too dumb to read.

To be fair, at least C_Clayton provided some sort of evidence. In this "thread about science," you have made some claims about science without providing evidence of them.

No, Clayton wanted it both ways. His point was that Race wasn't but Racism was. You can't have it both ways.

Maybe, but race can not exist as a biological classification yet be real from a social standpoint. Perhaps more importantly, even if race is not a real thing, people can still treat it as if it is. I can't say what Clayton was intending.

I can because I know his political belief system he wanted it both ways.

 

[Montrovant]

Wrong.

It is a settled and accepted fact of science, beyond dispute, that there is no such thing as ‘race’; consequently, there are no ‘differences’ concerning something that doesn’t exist.

“[G]iven current scientific data, biological races do not exist among modern humans today, and they have never existed in the past.”

Why Are We Divided by Race When There Is No Such Thing?

‘Race’ therefore exists solely as a human construct, a contrivance intended to divide people and justify hostility toward those perceived to be ‘different.’

Such is the reprehensible right and its pathetic efforts to defend the racist Trump – to ‘defend’ the indefensible.

This was a thread about science, not PC zealotry. Please go away, dear god... you are literally denying your own eyes, too dumb to read.

To be fair, at least C_Clayton provided some sort of evidence. In this "thread about science," you have made some claims about science without providing evidence of them.

No, Clayton wanted it both ways. His point was that Race wasn't but Racism was. You can't have it both ways.

Maybe, but race can not exist as a biological classification yet be real from a social standpoint. Perhaps more importantly, even if race is not a real thing, people can still treat it as if it is. I can't say what Clayton was intending.

I can because I know his political belief system he wanted it both ways.

Fair enough.

 

[Doc1]

This was a thread about science, not PC zealotry. Please go away, dear god... you are literally denying your own eyes, too dumb to read.

To be fair, at least C_Clayton provided some sort of evidence. In this "thread about science," you have made some claims about science without providing evidence of them.

No, Clayton wanted it both ways. His point was that Race wasn't but Racism was. You can't have it both ways.

Maybe, but race can not exist as a biological classification yet be real from a social standpoint. Perhaps more importantly, even if race is not a real thing, people can still treat it as if it is. I can't say what Clayton was intending.

I can because I know his political belief system he wanted it both ways.

Fair enough.

I can't say that of everyone, but I can him.

 

[TheParser]

I choose to believe (rightly or wrongly) that one's intelligence is dependent more on social and cultural factors than on one's ancestry.

 

[SobieskiSavedEurope]

I choose to believe (rightly or wrongly) that one's intelligence is dependent more on social and cultural factors than on one's ancestry.

Transracial Adoption Studies say otherwise.

 

[IM2]

Scientifically the issue is settled: There are differences between races and the differences didn't stop at the neck. Particularly Asians are very intelligent, whites somewhere in the middle, blacks the bottom tire (on average, of course).

So how many here accept this reality, and how many live in denial?

Given there is no such thing as race,, then there are no difference's based on race. Now one can create a false construct based on skin color which is what race is then create tests made by the dominant group using their lifestyles to determine intelligence and make claims, but in reality there is no difference on average or anything else.

 

[IM2]

I choose to believe (rightly or wrongly) that one's intelligence is dependent more on social and cultural factors than on one's ancestry.

Transracial Adoption Studies say otherwise.

I doubt that.

 

[Taz]

Given there is no such thing as race

 

[abu afak]

I choose to believe (rightly or wrongly) that one's intelligence is dependent more on social and cultural factors than on one's ancestry.

Transracial Adoption Studies say otherwise.

I doubt that.

Race differences in intelligence: how research changed my mind to overcome the “all races are equal” dogma
Race differences in intelligence: how research changed my mind to overcome the “all races are equal” dogma. | Human Stupidity: Irrationality, Self Deception

I grew up indoctrinated by political correctness. Like a large part of citizens in Western countries I was brainwashed: Races do not exist, all are equal. Saying anything different, saying that there are racial differences, is racism, a crime.
In school I heard disparaging remarks about Artur Jensen and other “unscientific” “dishonest” “cheating” scientists doing faulty research about race differences. The Bell Curve by Richard Herrnstein and Charles Murray actually looked fairly convincing to me, but if even President Bill Clinton denounced it, there must be something wrong about it.

There always was some complex theory to explain away the IQ differences:

*different culture
*parental expectation
*mother’s malnourishment
*IQ measurements are racially and culturally biased
​

My opinion changed when I read about trans-racial adoption studies. That was the last drop that really disproved all these desperate attempts to explain away racial differences in intelligence.

“The best evidence for the genetic basis of race-IQ differences comes from trans-racial adoption studies of Oriental children, Black children, and Mixed-Race children. All these children have been adopted by White parents at an early age and have grown up in middle-class White homes.”

....Korean and Vietnamese babies from poor backgrounds, many of whom were malnourished, were adopted by White American and Belgian families. When they grew up, they excelled in school. The IQs of the adopted Oriental children were 10 or more points higher than the national average for the country they grew up in. Trans-racial adoption does not increase or decrease IQ. The three-way pattern of race differences in IQ remains.”
​

In plain English: adopted Asian babies grew up to be very bright, adopted black babies grew up to have low intelligence. One more desperate argument that was posed to save the “racial equality” dogma:
[....]
That did it for me. It destroyed my ingrained indoctrinated beliefs that all races must be equal. It opened up my mind to the possibility that there could be racial differences.
[....]
`​

 

[IM2]

I choose to believe (rightly or wrongly) that one's intelligence is dependent more on social and cultural factors than on one's ancestry.

Transracial Adoption Studies say otherwise.

I doubt that.

Race differences in intelligence: how research changed my mind to overcome the “all races are equal” dogma
Race differences in intelligence: how research changed my mind to overcome the “all races are equal” dogma. | Human Stupidity: Irrationality, Self Deception

I grew up indoctrinated by political correctness. Like a large part of citizens in Western countries I was brainwashed: Races do not exist, all are equal. Saying anything different, saying that there are racial differences, is racism, a crime.
In school I heard disparaging remarks about Artur Jensen and other “unscientific” “dishonest” “cheating” scientists doing faulty research about race differences. The Bell Curve by Richard Herrnstein and Charles Murray actually looked fairly convincing to me, but if even President Bill Clinton denounced it, there must be something wrong about it.

There always was some complex theory to explain away the IQ differences:

*different culture
*parental expectation
*mother’s malnourishment
*IQ measurements are racially and culturally biased
​

My opinion changed when I read about trans-racial adoption studies. That was the last drop that really disproved all these desperate attempts to explain away racial differences in intelligence.

“The best evidence for the genetic basis of race-IQ differences comes from trans-racial adoption studies of Oriental children, Black children, and Mixed-Race children. All these children have been adopted by White parents at an early age and have grown up in middle-class White homes.”

....Korean and Vietnamese babies from poor backgrounds, many of whom were malnourished, were adopted by White American and Belgian families. When they grew up, they excelled in school. The IQs of the adopted Oriental children were 10 or more points higher than the national average for the country they grew up in. Trans-racial adoption does not increase or decrease IQ. The three-way pattern of race differences in IQ remains.”
​

In plain English: adopted Asian babies grew up to be very bright, adopted black babies grew up to have low intelligence. One more desperate argument that was posed to save the “racial equality” dogma:
[....]
That did it for me. It destroyed my ingrained indoctrinated beliefs that all races must be equal. It opened up my mind to the possibility that there could be racial differences.
[....]
`​

There is no such thing as political correctness and those transracial adoption studies are bogus. Politically correct is a term white racists use in order t make excuses for racist beliefs. If a person of color is politically incorrect making statements about whites in the same manner, they are called racists. I have a degree is sociology, this is a bogus study, .

 

[Montrovant]

I choose to believe (rightly or wrongly) that one's intelligence is dependent more on social and cultural factors than on one's ancestry.

Transracial Adoption Studies say otherwise.

I doubt that.

Race differences in intelligence: how research changed my mind to overcome the “all races are equal” dogma
Race differences in intelligence: how research changed my mind to overcome the “all races are equal” dogma. | Human Stupidity: Irrationality, Self Deception

I grew up indoctrinated by political correctness. Like a large part of citizens in Western countries I was brainwashed: Races do not exist, all are equal. Saying anything different, saying that there are racial differences, is racism, a crime.
In school I heard disparaging remarks about Artur Jensen and other “unscientific” “dishonest” “cheating” scientists doing faulty research about race differences. The Bell Curve by Richard Herrnstein and Charles Murray actually looked fairly convincing to me, but if even President Bill Clinton denounced it, there must be something wrong about it.

There always was some complex theory to explain away the IQ differences:

*different culture
*parental expectation
*mother’s malnourishment
*IQ measurements are racially and culturally biased
​

My opinion changed when I read about trans-racial adoption studies. That was the last drop that really disproved all these desperate attempts to explain away racial differences in intelligence.

“The best evidence for the genetic basis of race-IQ differences comes from trans-racial adoption studies of Oriental children, Black children, and Mixed-Race children. All these children have been adopted by White parents at an early age and have grown up in middle-class White homes.”

....Korean and Vietnamese babies from poor backgrounds, many of whom were malnourished, were adopted by White American and Belgian families. When they grew up, they excelled in school. The IQs of the adopted Oriental children were 10 or more points higher than the national average for the country they grew up in. Trans-racial adoption does not increase or decrease IQ. The three-way pattern of race differences in IQ remains.”
​

In plain English: adopted Asian babies grew up to be very bright, adopted black babies grew up to have low intelligence. One more desperate argument that was posed to save the “racial equality” dogma:
[....]
That did it for me. It destroyed my ingrained indoctrinated beliefs that all races must be equal. It opened up my mind to the possibility that there could be racial differences.
[....]
`​

There is no such thing as political correctness and those transracial adoption studies are bogus. Politically correct is a term white racists use in order t make excuses for racist beliefs. If a person of color is politically incorrect making statements about whites in the same manner, they are called racists. I have a degree is sociology, this is a bogus study, .

Politically correct is not a term used exclusively with race.

 

[abu afak]

There is no such thing as political correctness and those transracial adoption studies are bogus. Politically correct is a term white racists use in order t make excuses for racist beliefs. If a person of color is politically incorrect making statements about whites in the same manner, they are called racists. I have a degree is sociology, this is a bogus study, .

You have a degree in BS. (or flunked out of the Morgan State marching band)
PC is used in Race, Politics, Handicaps/Diseases, Gender, etc, etc, etc.

Simply and emptily declaring Transracial adoption studies are "bogus" is Clownish and the usual 70 IQ.
.

 

[ding]

As a rule or statistically speaking, Intelligence is an excellent indicator of success.

IQ scores may not always be representative of one's intelligence.

One's intelligence can be improved but there are limits. The mind is like a muscle in that it can be strengthened.

All things being equal, Some people's intelligence can be improved more than others. That is genetics.

Objectivity is a sign of intelligence and improves one's intelligence. Objectivity can be learned.

I struggle to say that Asians are more intelligent because there are billions of Asians who aren't. One must factor in the entire distribution. Just based on sheer numbers it would be surprising if there were not more intelligent Asians than other races. But that doesn't mean it is true on a per capita basis.

 

[IM2]

I choose to believe (rightly or wrongly) that one's intelligence is dependent more on social and cultural factors than on one's ancestry.

Transracial Adoption Studies say otherwise.

I doubt that.

Race differences in intelligence: how research changed my mind to overcome the “all races are equal” dogma
Race differences in intelligence: how research changed my mind to overcome the “all races are equal” dogma. | Human Stupidity: Irrationality, Self Deception

I grew up indoctrinated by political correctness. Like a large part of citizens in Western countries I was brainwashed: Races do not exist, all are equal. Saying anything different, saying that there are racial differences, is racism, a crime.
In school I heard disparaging remarks about Artur Jensen and other “unscientific” “dishonest” “cheating” scientists doing faulty research about race differences. The Bell Curve by Richard Herrnstein and Charles Murray actually looked fairly convincing to me, but if even President Bill Clinton denounced it, there must be something wrong about it.

There always was some complex theory to explain away the IQ differences:

*different culture
*parental expectation
*mother’s malnourishment
*IQ measurements are racially and culturally biased
​

My opinion changed when I read about trans-racial adoption studies. That was the last drop that really disproved all these desperate attempts to explain away racial differences in intelligence.

“The best evidence for the genetic basis of race-IQ differences comes from trans-racial adoption studies of Oriental children, Black children, and Mixed-Race children. All these children have been adopted by White parents at an early age and have grown up in middle-class White homes.”

....Korean and Vietnamese babies from poor backgrounds, many of whom were malnourished, were adopted by White American and Belgian families. When they grew up, they excelled in school. The IQs of the adopted Oriental children were 10 or more points higher than the national average for the country they grew up in. Trans-racial adoption does not increase or decrease IQ. The three-way pattern of race differences in IQ remains.”
​

In plain English: adopted Asian babies grew up to be very bright, adopted black babies grew up to have low intelligence. One more desperate argument that was posed to save the “racial equality” dogma:
[....]
That did it for me. It destroyed my ingrained indoctrinated beliefs that all races must be equal. It opened up my mind to the possibility that there could be racial differences.
[....]
`​

There is no such thing as political correctness and those transracial adoption studies are bogus. Politically correct is a term white racists use in order t make excuses for racist beliefs. If a person of color is politically incorrect making statements about whites in the same manner, they are called racists. I have a degree is sociology, this is a bogus study, .

Politically correct is not a term used exclusively with race.

I'm not going to argue with a person who wants to deny things. In this forum, political correctness is used as a shield or defense for people to male racist comments against people of color. When a person of color applies the same no pc back, they are called racists or race baiters. There is no such thing as political correctness. You are either correct or you are not.

 

[IM2]

There is no such thing as political correctness and those transracial adoption studies are bogus. Politically correct is a term white racists use in order t make excuses for racist beliefs. If a person of color is politically incorrect making statements about whites in the same manner, they are called racists. I have a degree is sociology, this is a bogus study, .

You have a degree in BS. (or flunked out of the Morgan State marching band)
PC is used in Race, Politics, Handicaps/Diseases, Gender, etc, etc, etc.

Simply and emptily declaring Transracial adoption studies are "bogus" is Clownish and the usual 70 IQ.
.

Well since my IQ was about double that 70, I say there is no such thing as political correctness and that the transracial adoption studies are a bunch of bogus crap. I did get a degree is sociology, I have done over 30 years in the field, my comments are neither simple or empty. Yours however are.

 

[Montrovant]

I choose to believe (rightly or wrongly) that one's intelligence is dependent more on social and cultural factors than on one's ancestry.

Transracial Adoption Studies say otherwise.

I doubt that.

Race differences in intelligence: how research changed my mind to overcome the “all races are equal” dogma
Race differences in intelligence: how research changed my mind to overcome the “all races are equal” dogma. | Human Stupidity: Irrationality, Self Deception

I grew up indoctrinated by political correctness. Like a large part of citizens in Western countries I was brainwashed: Races do not exist, all are equal. Saying anything different, saying that there are racial differences, is racism, a crime.
In school I heard disparaging remarks about Artur Jensen and other “unscientific” “dishonest” “cheating” scientists doing faulty research about race differences. The Bell Curve by Richard Herrnstein and Charles Murray actually looked fairly convincing to me, but if even President Bill Clinton denounced it, there must be something wrong about it.

There always was some complex theory to explain away the IQ differences:

*different culture
*parental expectation
*mother’s malnourishment
*IQ measurements are racially and culturally biased
​

My opinion changed when I read about trans-racial adoption studies. That was the last drop that really disproved all these desperate attempts to explain away racial differences in intelligence.

“The best evidence for the genetic basis of race-IQ differences comes from trans-racial adoption studies of Oriental children, Black children, and Mixed-Race children. All these children have been adopted by White parents at an early age and have grown up in middle-class White homes.”

....Korean and Vietnamese babies from poor backgrounds, many of whom were malnourished, were adopted by White American and Belgian families. When they grew up, they excelled in school. The IQs of the adopted Oriental children were 10 or more points higher than the national average for the country they grew up in. Trans-racial adoption does not increase or decrease IQ. The three-way pattern of race differences in IQ remains.”
​

In plain English: adopted Asian babies grew up to be very bright, adopted black babies grew up to have low intelligence. One more desperate argument that was posed to save the “racial equality” dogma:
[....]
That did it for me. It destroyed my ingrained indoctrinated beliefs that all races must be equal. It opened up my mind to the possibility that there could be racial differences.
[....]
`​

There is no such thing as political correctness and those transracial adoption studies are bogus. Politically correct is a term white racists use in order t make excuses for racist beliefs. If a person of color is politically incorrect making statements about whites in the same manner, they are called racists. I have a degree is sociology, this is a bogus study, .

Politically correct is not a term used exclusively with race.

I'm not going to argue with a person who wants to deny things. In this forum, political correctness is used as a shield or defense for people to male racist comments against people of color. When a person of color applies the same no pc back, they are called racists or race baiters. There is no such thing as political correctness. You are either correct or you are not.

You should have specified that you were only talking about this forum in your statement.