Are there any economic beneffits from global corporations ?

[ralfy]

With Little Notice Globalization Reduced Poverty

yes China alone eliminated 40% of world poverty with its switch to global capitalism

From what I know, China employs a state capitalist system with export-oriented industries.

 

[CultureCitizen]

What exactly does "Share of national/state-controlled companies' capitalization" mean? If the Chinese government owns 10% of a company, is that a "state-controlled" company? Do we count all of its capital in the chart above? Given that the author is obviously a fan of statism and government meddling, I question the accuracy of his statistics.

10 huh? That wouldn't be much controll would it?

Sinopec , the third largest company in 2014 is owned by the government by 50% or more.
Sinopec Group - Global 500 2014 2014 - Fortune
(see the footnote in small print).

 

[bripat9643]

What exactly does "Share of national/state-controlled companies' capitalization" mean? If the Chinese government owns 10% of a company, is that a "state-controlled" company? Do we count all of its capital in the chart above? Given that the author is obviously a fan of statism and government meddling, I question the accuracy of his statistics.

10 huh? That wouldn't be much controll would it?

Sinopec , the third largest company in 2014 is owned by the government by 50% or more.
Sinopec Group - Global 500 2014 2014 - Fortune
(see the footnote in small print).

You article doesn't define what "controlled" means, so it's difficult to say. The terms it uses are not well defined. They are deliberately vague and are therefore meaningless.

 

[CultureCitizen]

thats true but so what?? There is no point in having a great country if you're not going to defend it? It would be lilke building a great house and not putting a roof on it.

Arguably it would be better if there were no countries to defend. Just one world.

That would not be better.

Of course it would : there would be no military spending.

Yes there would, and there would be even more killing.

It should be noted that conflict-related deaths worldwide increased in absolute and relative terms compared to the past four centuries as military spending increased, although there are many other factors to consider, such as population, environmental damage, resource availability, etc.

Though it is only an educational video here is my source. It seems that deaths by war have decreased since 1950.
If I recall correctly WWII created a death toll of 50+ million people, that is a record really hard to break. In contrast the last 65 years have been of a relative peace.

 

[CultureCitizen]

What exactly does "Share of national/state-controlled companies' capitalization" mean? If the Chinese government owns 10% of a company, is that a "state-controlled" company? Do we count all of its capital in the chart above? Given that the author is obviously a fan of statism and government meddling, I question the accuracy of his statistics.

10 huh? That wouldn't be much controll would it?

Sinopec , the third largest company in 2014 is owned by the government by 50% or more.
Sinopec Group - Global 500 2014 2014 - Fortune
(see the footnote in small print).

You article doesn't define what "controlled" means, so it's difficult to say. The terms it uses are not well defined. They are deliberately vague and are therefore meaningless.

What is your point? Are you trying to deny that China has a "state-capitalism" system?
I find the term state controlled quite clear : the state has the last word regarding the decisions of the company . This means the government owns at least 50% of the shares.

As a sample take the top 10 companies of China :

3 Sinopec Group
4 China national petroleum
25 Industrial and commerce bank of china
38 China construction bank
47 Agricultural Bank of China
52 China State Construction Engineering
55 China mobile comunications
59 Bank of China
60 China national offshore oil
86 China railway group

ALL of them are government owned at least by 50%.
Wal-Mart Stores - Global 500 2014 2014 - Fortune

 

[Unkotare]

China s slowdown From a very big base The Economist

Your link isn't active.
Got another?

The Economist is active.

 

[bripat9643]

What exactly does "Share of national/state-controlled companies' capitalization" mean? If the Chinese government owns 10% of a company, is that a "state-controlled" company? Do we count all of its capital in the chart above? Given that the author is obviously a fan of statism and government meddling, I question the accuracy of his statistics.

10 huh? That wouldn't be much controll would it?

Sinopec , the third largest company in 2014 is owned by the government by 50% or more.
Sinopec Group - Global 500 2014 2014 - Fortune
(see the footnote in small print).

You article doesn't define what "controlled" means, so it's difficult to say. The terms it uses are not well defined. They are deliberately vague and are therefore meaningless.

What is your point? Are you trying to deny that China has a "state-capitalism" system?
I find the term state controlled quite clear : the state has the last word regarding the decisions of the company . This means the government owns at least 50% of the shares.

As a sample take the top 10 companies of China :

3 Sinopec Group
4 China national petroleum
25 Industrial and commerce bank of china
38 China construction bank
47 Agricultural Bank of China
52 China State Construction Engineering
55 China mobile comunications
59 Bank of China
60 China national offshore oil
86 China railway group

ALL of them are government owned at least by 50%.
Wal-Mart Stores - Global 500 2014 2014 - Fortune

So if the state owns less than 50% of the company, is it still state controlled? Those 10 companies hardly make-up 80% of the capital in China, as your article claimed.

 

[CultureCitizen]

So if the state owns less than 50% of the company, is it still state controlled? Those 10 companies hardly make-up 80% of the capital in China, as your article claimed.

No , it wouldn't be state controlled.
No , but if you take a look at the combined revenues of the top 50 companies from the Forbes list, you'll see they add up to 4.25 trillion or roughtly the 45% of Chinas GDP.
I think the numbers of the article are correct.

Sinopec Group - Global 500 2014 2014 - Fortune

 

[georgephillip]

dear, nobody is forcing anybody to buy junkie stuff.

Authoritarian capitalist market forces are forcing millions of consumers to buy Chinese junk or not buy anything. Why are you shilling for communist terrorism?

 

[georgephillip]

As a sample take the top 10 companies of China :

Plus 1

 

[Delta4Embassy]

A couple come to mind, one "free trade stops wars." Two, "a McDonald's hamburger in the US tastes just as awful as a McDonald's hamburger in China."

 

[georgephillip]

China s slowdown From a very big base The Economist

Your link isn't active.
Got another?

The Economist is active.

http://www.annuaire-affilinet.fr/?
sIP=13.10&csts=0&ref=484633&site=12297&type=text&tnb=1&subid=skim1629X537947X1df6ea2e4c5b72958022153e088b41fe&diurl=http%3a%2f%2fwww.economist.com%2fblogs%2ffreeexchange%2f2015%2f01%2fchinas-slowdown
Your link is a waste of time.
Surprised?

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

I find the term state controlled quite clear : the state has the last word regarding the decisions of the company .

dear, its anything but clear!!!!

In his new book titled Markets over Mao: The rise of private businesses in China, Lardy argues that even though SOEs still enjoy monopoly positions in some key sectors in China, such as energy and telecommunications, their role in the overall economy has diminished significantly over the years. Here are some of the facts he presents to back his thesis: in 2011, China’s state-controlled firms only accounted for about a quarter of the country’s industrial output; and their share in exports has dropped to about 11% today; in 2012, state firms were only responsible for about one-tenth of fixed investment in manufacturing. And in terms of employment, SOEs employed about 13% of China’s labor force in 2011, a dramatic decline compared with the 60% figure recorded in 1999.

 

[CultureCitizen]

I find the term state controlled quite clear : the state has the last word regarding the decisions of the company .

dear, its anything but clear!!!!

In his new book titled Markets over Mao: The rise of private businesses in China, Lardy argues that even though SOEs still enjoy monopoly positions in some key sectors in China, such as energy and telecommunications, their role in the overall economy has diminished significantly over the years. Here are some of the facts he presents to back his thesis: in 2011, China’s state-controlled firms only accounted for about a quarter of the country’s industrial output; and their share in exports has dropped to about 11% today; in 2012, state firms were only responsible for about one-tenth of fixed investment in manufacturing. And in terms of employment, SOEs employed about 13% of China’s labor force in 2011, a dramatic decline compared with the 60% figure recorded in 1999.

Sumarizing :
25% of industrial output.
11% of exports. I would have to conclude that most of the production stays in China.
10% of fixed investments in manufacturing.
13% vs 60% of the labour force.

Ok , but that covers only the industrial sector ( except for the 13% employment figure) .
What is missing in those stats is the fact that The service sector is responsible for the 46% of Chinas GDP. So those stats are excluding banks, telecomunications, energy distribution and railroad operation companies.
Also , I would challenge the first figure of 25% . Reviewing the Forbes list and considering only the top 50 industrial companies the total revenues add up 2.8 trillion. Since China's Industrial output share of GDP is 43% this is equivalent to 4 trillion, hence SOE account for at least 60% of the industrial output ( hell, even if you only consider the top 10 industrial SOE they add up 1.5 T ).

Now the only caveat regarding my calculation is that China might be under reporting its GDP and its actually a lot higher than 9.4 trillion USD.

After looking at the figures from Forbes I would very much like to know how Lardy arrived to such figures.
I found another article :
State-owned enterprises in China How big are they East Asia Pacific on the rise

"roughly controlling 30 percent of the total secondary and tertiary assets, or over 50 percent of total industrial assets. The average size of SOEs is much bigger than their non-SOE peers, with average assets of the former equaling over 13 times of the latter."

I would say SOE still play a very significant role in China's economy.
It is hard to pin an exact number on the share, as Beijing seems to be doing whatever is possible to offuscate the numbers.

 

[CultureCitizen]

A couple come to mind, one "free trade stops wars." Two, "a McDonald's hamburger in the US tastes just as awful as a McDonald's hamburger in China."

You can still have free trade without global corporations.

 

[ABikerSailor]

A couple come to mind, one "free trade stops wars." Two, "a McDonald's hamburger in the US tastes just as awful as a McDonald's hamburger in China."

Quick question................how many hamburgers have you eaten from a McDonald's in China?

Even further question...............how many have you eaten in the United States?

Can you tell the difference?

I can tell you the difference between Spain, Italy, Greece and Brazil. I've eaten a burger in each country.

I'm guessing you haven't tried those from China, have you?

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

After looking at the figures from Forbes I would very much like to know how Lardy arrived to such figures.

but why dear?? are you here to play trivial pursuit? Have you given up trying to make the case that we don't need global corporations and free trade???

 

[CultureCitizen]

After looking at the figures from Forbes I would very much like to know how Lardy arrived to such figures.

but why dear?? are you here to play trivial pursuit? Have you given up trying to make the case that we don't need global corporations and free trade???

I am not completely against free trade, it has its benefits, specially if the removal of tariffs and free movement of labour is planned.
I am mostly against global corporations because they tend to offshore the profits to fiscal paradises.
Ah , yes , and then someone would argue : then abolish taxes for corporations , or let them merge as they like, or let them "donate" any amount they want to any candidate.
In other words : let them do whatever they want. Is that supposed to bring beneffits for the society as a whole ? I don't think so.

 

[OnePercenter]

Selling things too cheaply? Why is that a problem?

Let's see; solar panels, steel, and cars, were product dumped in the US, all propagated by Republicans.

 

[Unkotare]

A couple come to mind, one "free trade stops wars." Two, "a McDonald's hamburger in the US tastes just as awful as a McDonald's hamburger in China."

Quick question................how many hamburgers have you eaten from a McDonald's in China?

You on Ronald's payroll?