Are globalized corporations unamerican?

[Susan45]

The radical right, such as Whitehall, religiously follow Saul Alinski. Spiritually they are allied with him and with Joseph McCarthy.

Hey! Stop that! Saul Alinsky was a good man. Worked all his life to help people out. To put him in the same paragraph with that asshole McCarthy is a travesty.

(Pssst...they aren't smart enough to "religiously" follow Alinsky.)

 

[Brutus]

To put him in the same paragraph with that asshole McCarthy is a travesty.

why say that?? McCarthy was a hero. After the liberals gave the bomb to the world's most evil man, Joe Carthy tried to find the rest of the liberal spies in America. When he asked them if they were communists they all took the 5th. You know what that means- right??

 

[Steelplate]

Bullshit... Your boys at FOX told you this[liberals caused the recession and housing crisis] and you unquestioningly believe it. Try another source.

1) it goes without saying that a liberal will be slow.

2) Actually all agree that liberals caused the housing recession and are preventing recovery just as FDR prevented recovery from the Depression with liberal policies.

3) Read "Reckless Endangerous" by NY Times writer and then see if you can say with a straight face the liberals didn't cause it

4)Here's the 2 greatest economists( one liberal and one conservative) and 2 greatest papers:

"First consider the once controversial view that the crisis was largely caused by the Fed's holding interest rates too low for too long after the 2001 recession. This view is now so widely held that the editorial pages of both the NY Times and the Wall Street Journal agree on its validity!"...John B. Taylor( arch conservative, author of the Taylor Rule)


" The Federal reserve having done so much to create the problems in which the economy is now mired, having mistakenly thought that even after the housing bubble burst the problems were contained, and having underestimated the severity of the crisis, now wants to make a contribution to preventing the economy from sinking into a Japanese Style malaise....... - "Joseph Stiglitz"

5) as a goofy liberal you need to scapegoat Fox just as the Germans scapegoated Jews. That is why you presented no facts or arguments against Fox. You were told they are evil and you blindly accept it becuase you are liberal.

in your previous post, you mentioned nothing about the Fed and interest rates. you mentioned fannie and freddie.

I didn't think I needed to present facts against Fox... but if you want it... here it is.

Fox News - Most Misinformed | Study - Maryland | Mediaite

 

[thereisnospoon]

well, I have to disagree... not with the first part. In general, Corporations aren't "un-American". But Corporations that take our jobs and move them over to China and the rest of the globe and are raking in record profits? No.. they're not just UN-AMERICAN.... they are fucking traitors and should be treated as such.

Do you have any idea what the effect on this country has been from these organizations? Did you ever think for one minute that if people were working, there would be more tax revenues and our Debt problem might not be so severe? Did you ever think that with more people working and spending that our economy wouldn't be so fucked up?

I'm sorry... these corporations do Owe America. America is the country that gave them the ability to become what they are. Let them try it in Europe.... no... not Greece, Greece is the Red headed stepchild of Europe. Let them try it in France, Germany, Denmark, etc. Hell, in Germany... the workers get to vote on a company's CEO. Let's see Mercedes Outsource their production to China... there would be riots in the streets.

That's what I don't understand about Conservatives. There are successful models out there to give our citizens a better life... but none of them want to even take a look. They see the horror story of Greece and think "That's us". But the truth is, we are the world's strongest economy.... we ain't Greece, nor will we ever be Greece.

Mercedes already outsources to China.

Mercedes-Benz to Expand Production Capacity in China - autoevolution

Also, Mercedes makes cars in America. We wouldn't have those jobs if Germany decided that only Germans should make Mercedes cars.

I agree with you on the corporate governance part. America is terrible for shareholders rights compared to most of the developed world.

However, a corporation's first duty is to the shareholders, not to the workers. I as a shareholder want my corporation to be as profitable as possible. Putting trade and investment barriers destroys wealth by creating inefficiencies which discourages productivity. All wealth creation comes from productivity. Making companies less productive by forcing them to invest in suboptimal environments merely transfers wealth from shareholders to others and creates a deadweight loss to society.

Outsourcing is not the reason for our debt problem. Our debt problem exists because we had a financial collapse and Americans are not willing to embrace solutions which will fix our fiscal balance.

So if you were a shareholder... you wouldn't give a shit if your Company's employees couldn't raise a family on the wages that they make? If not.... THAT'S THE PROBLEM WITH CAPITALISM!!!!!

Outsourcing is a factor in our debt problem. More people working=more revenue. That Financial Collapse that you are referring to? was nothing more than Greed at the top from people who didn't give a shit how it affected people below them... until it all fell apart.... then they begged for a handout.

I just don't see how seemingly adequately intelligent people can't see through this stuff.

Outsourcing... DO you have a clue what the term refers to?
Here's an example.....FYI.....Every auto manufacturer in the US outsources the manufacture of most of the parts that go into new vehicles.
Ford does not build it's transmissions. GM does not build it's water pumps, ac compressors, axles, control arms, etc......These parts are built by a wide array of different manufacturers all over the US and the world....So what.
Puts lots of people to work. They just don't work for the GM, Ford or Chrysler.
I know it pisses you union people off that this evil outsourced work is not union.
Now, if you want a gripe, talk about "offshoring". These are mostly entry level call center jobs. There are roughly 500,000 of these jobs overseas. That's a drop in the bucket, it seems people like to point to these jobs as the off shoring is putting millions of Americans out of work. Not true.
A friend of mine moved to Tennessee to manage a new AT&T call center. That's Tennessee, USA.
I have seen people lose their cookies when they talk about the John Deere plant in China..There's just ONE. John Deere has 59 US based plants. Problem?

 

[Brutus]

in your previous post, you mentioned nothing about the Fed and interest rates. you mentioned fannie and freddie.

I didn't think I needed to present facts against Fox... but if you want it... here it is.

Fox News - Most Misinformed | Study - Maryland | Mediaite

lets be honest, Fox agrees with our Founders about freedom and liberty from government so liberals naturally hate America, Fox, and our Founders??

Also your little study was dismissed a long time ago as a it compares the entire Fox network to news shows on other channels to get the results it wanted.

 

[Steelplate]

in your previous post, you mentioned nothing about the Fed and interest rates. you mentioned fannie and freddie.

I didn't think I needed to present facts against Fox... but if you want it... here it is.

Fox News - Most Misinformed | Study - Maryland | Mediaite

lets be honest, Fox agrees with our Founders about freedom and liberty from government so liberals naturally hate America, Fox, and our Founders??

You really want to be honest? Fox agrees with nothing but pandering to the wealthy and slowly eroding the rest of America...So conservatives naturally want to do the same thing.

You see how it works... I proffer a link...that includes a valid study by a major university that shows how Fox brainwashes people like you... so you choose to ignore it and defend some vague notion about our founding fathers and how liberals hate America...

in other words...you have nothing.

 

[rdean]

Are globalized corporations unamerican?Are globalized corporations unamerican?

The Conservative Supreme Court named them "citizens". Hugo Chavez can "invest" as much as he wants in American Presidential Elections. In fact, are Republicans working with "Hugo Chavez"?

One need not look any further than the America’s Wetland Foundation, a front group funded by the American Petroleum Institute, which spent the better half of 2010 devising commercials and ad campaigns that “raise awareness” of the beauty and fragility of U.S. Wetlands while asking citizens to petition Congress to make taxpayers pay for coastal damages caused by the Deepwater Horizon oil spill. The organization is sponsored by Shell, Chevron, BP and CITGO.

Environmental Communications & Public Affairs: An In-Depth Look

 

[Brutus]

lets be honest, Fox agrees with our Founders about freedom and liberty from government so liberals naturally hate America, Fox, and our Founders??

You really want to be honest? Fox agrees with nothing but pandering to the wealthy and slowly eroding the rest of America...So conservatives naturally want to do the same thing.

if you say Fox does not agree with our founders about Republican freedom and liberty from government you must say why you think that.

You see how it works... I proffer a link...that includes a valid study by a major university that shows how Fox brainwashes people like you... so you choose to ignore it and defend some vague notion about our founding fathers and how liberals hate America...

in other words...you have nothing.

what is vague about freedom and liberty from government??? It is the basic principle of America and the modern Republican party. I agree with our Founders and Fox as all intelligent people would. IF you are a liberal opposed to freedom why not go to Cuba or explain why you hate freedom.

I told you exactly why your study was flawed and you failed to answer 100%

 

[Brutus]

they are fucking traitors and should be treated as such.

actually not traitors but heros for seeking out the lowest prices for their customers. Americans are getting rich off the low prices.

Imagine if liberal fools ran the country and you had to find the highest prices, not the lowest. America would be a 3rd world 3rd rate country overnight. Liberals are traitors by virtue of their pure ignorance.

 

[Susan45]

Oh boy, that name sure sounds foreign and look what he named one of his books. Obvious this guy is a....

Why don't you fill in the blank.

An American?

I dont know if you'd call that the race card, exactly. But close enough.
I dont know anyone who claimed Sol Alinsky was something other than American.
A radical. The father of domestic terrorism. A shmoe of the first order. Maybe.

A father of domestic terrorism huh? HAHAHAHAHA!!! Yeah, right. Straight from the fevered brain of Glenn Beck.

 

[Susan45]

Corporations....The lib buzz word for "evil"....
Enough of this class warfare pro union bugle blowing.
Businesses do not operate to employ people. They operate to turn a profit for their owners/investors.
Business owners hire employees because they cannot do all of the work themselves. If that were possible the business would operate without employed help.
I will give you a perfect example.
Parkdale Mills. A company based in North Carolina. This company has been around for many years. During the 1980's market share began to dry up. Textiles became an unprofitable business in the US. Parkdale's management was determined to stay in business closed unprofitable mills then modernized the remaining plants. Employees were released. The retooled plants were designed to operate with little human oversight. Instead of hiring full time people to work in the plants, contract workers were hired to do the work. Wages were competitive with those before the changeover. The company survived and in subsequent years was able to hire full time people ,many of those former contract workers. Parkdale still operates today, turns a profit with about 10% of the workforce it once had.
For those who believe that companies cannot operate without massive employment, they are wrong.

Yep... but technology has nothing to do with the unemployment problem. I seem to recall our President using ATM's as one simple example and being ridiculed for blaming ATM's alone for our unemployment problem.

I believe you just proved the President's point.

I'll tell you one thing. You are right. In certain sectors... you can get by with little human interaction. You gave one example. Let's expand that out... Let's even say most production could be run by machines. How can you then sit there and blame working class people for our problems? If there are no jobs.... how can one be expected to contribute? If you want to relegate people to working in convenience stores... then they should be either paid a living wage, or subsidized by our government to bring them up to a living wage.

You can't have it both ways. You can't say that Big Business has the right to make as much money as possible without regard to our people's livelihoods AND not hold them accountable when those same people are so disaffected by the practice.

That means... if they are going to profiteer and run "lights out" factories that require little to no human interaction, then they can't keep begging for more tax breaks and railing against social policies.

What they want is to have their cake and eat it too. They want the tax breaks and the perks and they want to hire as few people as possible, AND they want Social Programs dissolved(to save them even more tax money).

BTW... just out of curiosity... How will people buy the crap that they are selling when they don't have jobs that allow them the luxury of buying anything more than food and shelter? How's that going to work?

I thought this might interest you.

BMW layoffs exemplify the evisceration of the middle class

Every working American should be dismayed by — and afraid of — what BMW is doing.

BMW, Teamsters: BMW layoffs exemplify the evisceration of the middle class - Los Angeles Times

 

[Susan45]

To put him in the same paragraph with that asshole McCarthy is a travesty.

why say that?? McCarthy was a hero. After the liberals gave the bomb to the world's most evil man, Joe Carthy tried to find the rest of the liberal spies in America. When he asked them if they were communists they all took the 5th. You know what that means- right??

You are so full of shit I can smell you from the other coast. McCarthy really did try and take away our freedoms so I'm not surprised that you think he's just wonderful. I'm old enough to remember the hearings on TV and the blacklisting of innocent people and obviously you are just old enough to turn on Faux news. It was a terrible and dark time for our country and there are some on the right would like to go back to those days. Thank God for the internet.

 

[mike beev]

Global corporations are in the business of making profits for their shareholders and nothing else. It is really that simple; they do not have and should not be expected to have any moral standards, national loyalties, compassion for employees, customers, competitors, or the natural environment. They exist only to make as much money as they can. Try reading "Supercapitalism" by Robert Reich for a nice summary of the modern game.

That being said, it is up to employees, citizens and consumers to protect themselves as best they can. To give international (or national) corporations the rights of US citizens is to invite them to take over the political areana and destroy democracy by buying our politicians through gullible voters.

 

[The Rabbi]

An American?

I dont know if you'd call that the race card, exactly. But close enough.
I dont know anyone who claimed Sol Alinsky was something other than American.
A radical. The father of domestic terrorism. A shmoe of the first order. Maybe.

A father of domestic terrorism huh? HAHAHAHAHA!!! Yeah, right. Straight from the fevered brain of Glenn Beck.

So Bill Ayers was not influenced by Alinsky's writings.
Gotcha.

 

[Charles_Main]

Global corporations are in the business of making profits for their shareholders and nothing else. It is really that simple; they do not have and should not be expected to have any moral standards, national loyalties, compassion for employees, customers, competitors, or the natural environment. They exist only to make as much money as they can. Try reading "Supercapitalism" by Robert Reich for a nice summary of the modern game.

That being said, it is up to employees, citizens and consumers to protect themselves as best they can. To give international (or national) corporations the rights of US citizens is to invite them to take over the political areana and destroy democracy by buying our politicians through gullible voters.

Exactly, Cooperation's are here to Make money. In doing so they also Provide us with Jobs, and usually Affordable Quality Goods or services. To Expect them to act in any way other than as a For Profit Business is to totally lack any understanding of Capitalism.

That Said the people do have a recourse. We can choose not to but from Cooperation's if we do not like how they operate. We can also in most cases Buy Stock in said company and not only make a profit when they do, but in some cases gain a voice in the Way the Company Operates.

Liberals love to portray Cooperations like the Robber Barrens of old. As if they are 1 guy, with all that wealth and no over sight.

Fact is at least 49% of Most Cooperation's are owned by The Millions of Stock Holders, and owners of other investment vehicles that are invested in the companies as well as the person, or Persons(usually) that own the remaining (controlling)51%.

Liberals screamed to High heaven about Exxon Making Huge Profits (Exxon then of course paid good Dividends on their stock, and stock holders saw a nice gain in their Net worth.)

Guess who is one of the largest Holders of Public Exxon Stock? Public Employee Pension Funds, and Mutual Funds.

Was just terrible of Exxon to spend Trillions finding the fuel we need to power our Economy, and turn a nice profit that literally Millions of Investors around the world benefited from. How horrible of them right. Those horrible evil Cooperation's. We should just get rid of them all and we can all live on Communes.

 

[Steelplate]

lets be honest, Fox agrees with our Founders about freedom and liberty from government so liberals naturally hate America, Fox, and our Founders??

You really want to be honest? Fox agrees with nothing but pandering to the wealthy and slowly eroding the rest of America...So conservatives naturally want to do the same thing.

if you say Fox does not agree with our founders about Republican freedom and liberty from government you must say why you think that.

You see how it works... I proffer a link...that includes a valid study by a major university that shows how Fox brainwashes people like you... so you choose to ignore it and defend some vague notion about our founding fathers and how liberals hate America...

in other words...you have nothing.

what is vague about freedom and liberty from government??? It is the basic principle of America and the modern Republican party. I agree with our Founders and Fox as all intelligent people would. IF you are a liberal opposed to freedom why not go to Cuba or explain why you hate freedom.

I told you exactly why your study was flawed and you failed to answer 100%

What about freedom from Corporatism? if you money worshippers hate your fellow Americans so much, why don't you move to some deserted island somewhere and set up your own system? Ours is based on Democratic Principles.... not "the guy with the most money, wins".

 

[Susan45]

I dont know if you'd call that the race card, exactly. But close enough.
I dont know anyone who claimed Sol Alinsky was something other than American.
A radical. The father of domestic terrorism. A shmoe of the first order. Maybe.

A father of domestic terrorism huh? HAHAHAHAHA!!! Yeah, right. Straight from the fevered brain of Glenn Beck.

So Bill Ayers was not influenced by Alinsky's writings.
Gotcha.

Oh geeze...You really think that's a gotcha? HAHAHAHAHA!!! Are you shivering in your panties over Ayers reading Alinsky?

This is just more Beckian thinking. Here, you forgot a name...Soros, Soros, Soros. Why in the hell don't you start thinking for yourself. Who the hell cares about Ayers?

 

[mike beev]

Well said Charles-Main. We all benefit from corporations, and the more stock you own the more you benefit. If employees want to fight back, they can join unions. If customers want to fight back, they can purchase elswhere or sue over dangerous products. If citizens want to fight back, they can pass regulations.

A corporation is no more than a large group with a common purpose and a self-interest. Everyone is free to join or start similar groups.

 

[The Rabbi]

A father of domestic terrorism huh? HAHAHAHAHA!!! Yeah, right. Straight from the fevered brain of Glenn Beck.

So Bill Ayers was not influenced by Alinsky's writings.
Gotcha.

Oh geeze...You really think that's a gotcha? HAHAHAHAHA!!! Are you shivering in your panties over Ayers reading Alinsky?

This is just more Beckian thinking. Here, you forgot a name...Soros, Soros, Soros. Why in the hell don't you start thinking for yourself. Who the hell cares about Ayers?

So Ayers was not a domestic terrorist, right? And he never read or was influenced by ALinsky, right?

It must be fun to laugh at people who are much smarter than you. I guess you really don't have much choice.

 

[Susan45]

So Bill Ayers was not influenced by Alinsky's writings.
Gotcha.

Oh geeze...You really think that's a gotcha? HAHAHAHAHA!!! Are you shivering in your panties over Ayers reading Alinsky?

This is just more Beckian thinking. Here, you forgot a name...Soros, Soros, Soros. Why in the hell don't you start thinking for yourself. Who the hell cares about Ayers?

So Ayers was not a domestic terrorist, right? And he never read or was influenced by ALinsky, right?

It must be fun to laugh at people who are much smarter than you. I guess you really don't have much choice.

Personally I couldn't care less about Ayers. Why should any of us care? Let's face it, you only care because Beck kept bringing him up.

But I admire Alinsky. He was a good man and I do get a little sick at the way he's been portrayed by Beck and his minions. And it's because of ignorance plain and simple. Instead of finding out about the man yourself, you just believe it when Beck demonizes him and slips him into one of his conspiracy theories. That is why I speak up about him, he's worth defending.