Anyone Else Believe As I Do?

[Middleman]

I have had a few fixed beliefs all my life in the arena of spirituality.

The first is that dead is dead. Period. There is no after-life of any sort. I take great comfort in this notion because once I have died, there'll be nothing left of me to experience anxiety or any other sort of distress.

The second is that there is a God. Some evidence of divinity is visible to me in almost every human. In nature. In science. In math.

Consequently, I believe the ethical behavior of any human is desirable and pleasing to God, but the only punishment for unethical behavior is that the actor loses his self-regard, his humanity is diminished, and he moves away from God.

Prayer may be self-comforting but God does not alter the course of events because we send up entreaties. He might, however, boost our coping power if we ask nicely.

I think this is an unusual arrangement of beliefs, and I wondered if I was sharing it with anyone else.

And for those of you whose ethical systems are based on a reward in the hereafter, can anyone explain to me why I can find the instant reward in doing the right thing, but you need a dangling carrot of a promise of Heaven to follow your ethical precepts?

Do you honestly think that evil acts are satisfying? I see them as failures, lapses in judgment and future regrets.

This sounds like the beliefs of many Jews, who do not necessarily believe in an afterlife, but do believe in God and a defined system of ethics.

 

[Sky Dancer]

But what kind of 'God' do Jews believe in? Do all Christians think of God in the same way? What is God? Is God a concept or a state of being beyond conception? Is the God of Muslims, Christians and Jews the same God? What about religions that don't have the term 'God'?

 

[Middleman]

But what kind of 'God' do Jews believe in? Do all Christians think of God in the same way? What is God? Is God a concept or a state of being beyond conception?

I don't know the details of that. I think that Christians believe in the God of Jacob, which is the Jewish concept of the One God. This God is a personal God, rather than the impersonal concept ascribed to in Buddhism. I think Christianity further personalized God with the introduction of Jesus, the Son of God. Traditionally, God the Father is a more remote person of the Trinity. Of course, the Jews don't believe that the One God is three persons.

 

[Sky Dancer]

But what kind of 'God' do Jews believe in? Do all Christians think of God in the same way? What is God? Is God a concept or a state of being beyond conception?

I don't know the details of that. I think that Christians believe in the God of Jacob, which is the Jewish concept of the One God. This God is a personal God, rather than the impersonal concept ascribed to in Buddhism. I think Christianity further personalized God with the introduction of Jesus, the Son of God. Traditionally, God the Father is a more remote person of the Trinity. Of course, the Jews don't believe that the One God is three persons.

Ah, that makes sense. It seems most people posting have a personal god view of God.

I was just reading about non-theism. Here is a source:
Nontheism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Middleman]

But what kind of 'God' do Jews believe in? Do all Christians think of God in the same way? What is God? Is God a concept or a state of being beyond conception? Is the God of Muslims, Christians and Jews the same God? What about religions that don't have the term 'God'?

If it's true that there is One Almighty God that is the God of the universe, then that means all religions must believe in the same God. The external trappings of religion vary though.

 

[Sky Dancer]

But what kind of 'God' do Jews believe in? Do all Christians think of God in the same way? What is God? Is God a concept or a state of being beyond conception? Is the God of Muslims, Christians and Jews the same God? What about religions that don't have the term 'God'?

If it's true that there is One Almighty God that is the God of the universe, then that means all religions must believe in the same God. The external trappings of religion vary though.

All religions don't believe in a personal God. I'm most familiar with Buddhism in that regard.

What we would call 'buddha' is a state of being beyond conception. Some Christians according to my wiki source would actually relate to a non-personal God. This would be liberal theologians or Christian apologists.

 

[Middleman]

But what kind of 'God' do Jews believe in? Do all Christians think of God in the same way? What is God? Is God a concept or a state of being beyond conception? Is the God of Muslims, Christians and Jews the same God? What about religions that don't have the term 'God'?

If it's true that there is One Almighty God that is the God of the universe, then that means all religions must believe in the same God. The external trappings of religion vary though.

All religions don't believe in a personal God. I'm most familiar with Buddhism in that regard.

What we would call 'buddha' is a state of being beyond conception. Some Christians according to my wiki source would actually relate to a non-personal God. This would be liberal theologians or Christian apologists.

The Christian trinity consists of God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. Jesus, the Son, is really the only truly personal person of the Trinity. The Father is fairly remote, and the Holy Spirit is definitely impersonal in my mind.

 

[Middleman]

Interestingly, Hinduism also has a Holy Trinity.

HINDU TRINITY-Brahma, Vishnu, Shiva, RUDRAKSHA SHIVA BEADS/RUDRAKSHA SECRETS-SHIVA BEADS/SECRETS OF RUDRAKSHA

http://www.hinduwebsite.com/hinduism/hindutrinity.asp

 

[Sky Dancer]

Interestingly, Hinduism also has a Holy Trinity.

HINDU TRINITY-Brahma, Vishnu, Shiva, RUDRAKSHA SHIVA BEADS/RUDRAKSHA SECRETS-SHIVA BEADS/SECRETS OF RUDRAKSHA

http://www.hinduwebsite.com/hinduism/hindutrinity.asp

Vajrayana Buddhism has teachings on the three kayas; Dharmakaya, Sambhogakaya and Nirmanakaya.

 

[Madeline]

I believe it is what is in your heart and mind that matters...this defines the "good"(God) in you.... not your actions....but what thoughts are behind your actions....

Do you do good, so that you can be seen and others will see you doing good, so to satisfy yourself, your own ego with the thoughts or shouts of:

"Look at me, look how good I am!".... '' (I go to church/temple on the Sabbath, I go to the food shelter on thanksgiving to help out, I give to charity)'' ...(and you don't blah blah blah)....

anyone with those kind of thoughts behind their actions, is NOT doing the good that God asks of us....doing good is not really in their hearts....doing good is for THEMSELVES and not for the others they are helping, they have no sympathy or empathy for others in their heart....they condemn in their hearts, those those that they are supposedly helping....

that's the kind of stuff I expect God to see through....even with me, who has fallen in to that self centered, ego thingy a time or two....

so, basically, I believe in a JUST GOD, and i do believe our spirit moves on after the death of our bodies. And I have no idea what that all entails....

I don't accept situational ethics, Care4all. In my mind, very very very little in life is an actual ethical dilemma one needs to confab with one's Rabbi to resolve. We almost always know what is right -- the confusion comes from all the bullshitting of ourselves we do, trying to justify doing the evil thing.

I agree, much trumpeting of one's good acts seems more about the approval of others than about goodness. I suppose there comes a point where a good act can become an evil one....or mebbe just be obliterated by subsequent related evil acts. Like the pols who tried to score votes by bragging on their military service whilst lying on Kerry's war record, etc.

If you come across a person lying prone and unconscious on the side of the road, are you tempted to pick his pockets? Do you walk by and ignore him? Or do you render aid?

To me, the first two choices are evil acts and the third is a good act...and I don't have to struggle with myself to overcome any temptation to steal, etc. I am bumfuddled by people who need a threat of Hell before they "give up" stealing, etc.

 

[Madeline]

I don't believe in God as he/she is normally concieved of. I don't think God is a personality like us. I think there is a state of being beyond conception that each and every sentient being has the potential to realize in the here and now.

Ethics is helpful to a spiritual path but isn't the same as experiencing this state of being. Being 'good' doesn't get you there. I'm talking about what is beyond conception. JMO

"Beyond conception"? Do you mean a raised consciousness? An After-life?

 

[Madeline]

Granny wrote:

Do you not need God? Sounds like you have at least a part of Him with you whether you recognize it or not.

Well first, deeply felt thankies for a truly moving post, Ma'am.

Do I need God? Well, here's what I have figured out so far.

God does not need me. He is not more or less present depending on the percent of humans who believe.

God will not save me. I will suffer and then I will die. So will everyone I have ever loved.

Does a belief in God stem only from a desire for magic, for a means of altering events as they unfold by some supernatural means? No, I don't think that's true.

There is chaos in the world, but not as much as we think. Sometimes, the patterns escape our knowledge or notice...but that does not render them truly random.

I believe in God because of the paintings Van Gogh was capable of creating. Because humans can have sex and reach orgasm. Because love looks and sounds pretty the same the world over, and likely always has.

I don't think I "need to believe"; I think I truly DO believe.

 

[amrchaos]

I have had a few fixed beliefs all my life in the arena of spirituality.

The first is that dead is dead. Period. There is no after-life of any sort. I take great comfort in this notion because once I have died, there'll be nothing left of me to experience anxiety or any other sort of distress.

The second is that there is a God. Some evidence of divinity is visible to me in almost every human. In nature. In science. In math.

Consequently, I believe the ethical behavior of any human is desirable and pleasing to God, but the only punishment for unethical behavior is that the actor loses his self-regard, his humanity is diminished, and he moves away from God.

Prayer may be self-comforting but God does not alter the course of events because we send up entreaties. He might, however, boost our coping power if we ask nicely.

I think this is an unusual arrangement of beliefs, and I wondered if I was sharing it with anyone else.

And for those of you whose ethical systems are based on a reward in the hereafter, can anyone explain to me why I can find the instant reward in doing the right thing, but you need a dangling carrot of a promise of Heaven to follow your ethical precepts?

Do you honestly think that evil acts are satisfying? I see them as failures, lapses in judgment and future regrets.

Bad News, Bluetype

You are going to hell!

I'll see you by the big burning rock next to Satans heels, Bluetype!

 

[Madeline]

I have had a few fixed beliefs all my life in the arena of spirituality.

As have I.

The first is that dead is dead. Period. There is no after-life of any sort. I take great comfort in this notion because once I have died, there'll be nothing left of me to experience anxiety or any other sort of distress.

Here I think you are wrong. You will continue to live on in the hearts and memories of those you knew you and loved or hated you. "Soul" or "spirit" is one thing, physical body is another. No one has ever come back to tell any of us of the existence of heaven or hell - but either way, at death we are all out of our physical pain and suffering.

The second is that there is a God. Some evidence of divinity is visible to me in almost every human. In nature. In science. In math.

Agreed.

Consequently, I believe the ethical behavior of any human is desirable and pleasing to God, but the only punishment for unethical behavior is that the actor loses his self-regard, his humanity is diminished, and he moves away from God.

Good behavior is its own reward - but there could also be greater reward that we may not see until some time down the road in our life. I don't disagree with your beliefs of punishment regarding loss of self-respect, humanity, and movement away from God. There is punishment for bad behavior but that punishment may may not come at the time of the bad behavior; but sometime, somewhere along the way the punishment will come before we die .

Prayer may be self-comforting but God does not alter the course of events because we send up entreaties. He might, however, boost our coping power if we ask nicely.

I believe in the saying that God will not give us more than we can bear. I've had that argument with Him on a number of occasions - contending that He must think I'm a mule. But when I hit rock bottom ... the only way I could go was always up and I did survive. God does answer our prayers - just in His own time - when He thinks we are ready. WE may want something today, but GOD may not give it until another day.

Examples: My maternal grandmother was apparently not all she cracked herself up to be ... somewhat questionable in character and motive. Her worst fear was to die of cancer - and that's exactly what she died of.

My mother was just a mean, jealous, envious, treacherous person - and way too many people saw her in that light. In the end, she died alone with a hospice worker and nobody went to her funeral. I doubt anyone visits her grave - I haven't.

I prayed all my life to find my Dad. I searched for him all my life. I was angry, hurt, curious, had a few things I wanted to say to him. When I was in my 20s I found him and he had his "little brown-eyed blond girl" again before he died. The only way he had been able to cope with his loss was to convince himself that I had died long years ago. None of the harsh words were ever spoken by me. We were like two magnets that snapped together on sight. I had found the parent who loved me.

I think this is an unusual arrangement of beliefs, and I wondered if I was sharing it with anyone else.

And for those of you whose ethical systems are based on a reward in the hereafter, can anyone explain to me why I can find the instant reward in doing the right thing, but you need a dangling carrot of a promise of Heaven to follow your ethical precepts?

I don't think there is a dangling carrot. Religion, in my opinion, is one of the least understood beliefs in the world. It's NOT the church we attend - it's a personal one-on-one relationship with God. We have a set of rules by which to live - it's called the Ten Commandments. It's how we live our lives, the choices we make relative to those commandments.

Do you honestly think that evil acts are satisfying? I see them as failures, lapses in judgment and future regrets.

I dont need god, the threat of hell or even the rewards of heaven to convince me to be good to people.

I do it because of my own respect for myself and the respect of the people who use the kindness to become better people.

Do you not need God? Sounds like you have at least a part of Him with you whether you recognize it or not.

God=good

Devil=evil

simple!

Of all the traditional Christian beliefs that befuddle me, the belief in Satan is the most mystifying. Why do you want or need to believe that humans are neutral, motiveless beings who are pushed and pulled by an array of supernatural beings?

I don't get this. It has always seemed to me that a belief in the Devil was no more than a way of pretending we are less than fully responsible for our own conduct.

 

[Madeline]

I'm curious, froggy. Why are you so certain there is an after-life?[/FONT][/SIZE][/COLOR]

There are things in this life that i've seen and heard to convince me that the unknown exist.

Of course the "unknown exists", froggy. The totality of human knowledge is not infinite, and no one human possesses All Human Knowledge, not even Stephen Hawkings.

But an After-life? What could any of us possibly "see" that'd be persuasive that our "egos" or "souls" or "consciousness" survives after death?

Ghosts, mebbe?

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

I believe you big blue font is pissing people off and makes your words get wasted because even I find it hard to finish reading anything you write.

Why not answer in kind?

 

[Madeline]

I believe you big blue font is pissing people off and makes your words get wasted because even I find it hard to finish reading anything you write.

SEE THE IRONY? WELLDOYAHUH?

No, as it happens I don't. Wanna explain it to me Willow Tree?

Here's a dictionary definition of "irony" in case you need one.

irony /'aɪrəni/

Synonyms:
adjective: ferreous, ferrous
noun: taunt, sarcasm

ironies plural;
Irony is a subtle form of humour which involves saying things that you do not mean. Noun (uncountable)
They find only irony in the narrator's concern.
Sinclair examined the closed, clever face for any hint of irony, but found none.
If you talk about the irony of a situation, you mean that it is odd or amusing because it involves a contrast. Noun
The irony is that many officials in Washington agree in private that their policy is inconsistent.
Opposition parties lost no time in stressing the irony of his return to power after being rejected by voters in November. Also + 'of/in'
Web definitions

sarcasm: witty language used to convey insults or scorn; "he used sarcasm to upset his opponent"; "irony is wasted on the stupid"; "Satire is a ...
incongruity between what might be expected and what actually occurs; "the irony of Ireland's copying the nation she most hated"
WordNet Search - 3.0

Irony (stylised as irony) is an album by ACO, released in 2003.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irony_(album)

Irony (from the Ancient Greek εἰρωνεία eirōneía, meaning hypocrisy, deception, or feigned ignorance) is a literary or rhetorical device ...
Irony - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

A statement that, when taken in context, may actually mean the opposite of what is written literally; the use of words expressing something other than their literal intention, notably as a form of humor; The quality or state of an event being both coincidental and contradictory in a humorous or ...
irony - Wiktionary

ironic - dry: humorously sarcastic or mocking; "dry humor"; "an ironic remark often conveys an intended meaning obliquely"; "an ironic novel"; "an ironical ...
ironic - characterized by often poignant difference or incongruity between what is expected and what actually is; "madness, an ironic fate for such a clear thinker"; "it was ironical that the well-planned scheme failed so completely"
http://wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn?s=ironic

ironically - contrary to plan or expectation; "ironically, he ended up losing money under his own plan"
ironically - in an ironic manner; "she began to mimic him ironically"
WordNet Search - 3.0

Ironic - "Ironic" is a song written by Alanis Morissette and Glen Ballard and produced by Ballard for Morissette's third album Jagged Little Pill (1995). It was released as the album's fourth single in 1996 (see 1996 in music).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ironic_(song)

ironic - Both coincidental and contradictory in a humorous or poignant and extremely improbable way
ironic - Wiktionary

A meaning (often contradictory) concealed behind the apparent meaning of a word or phrase.
From Revolution to Reconstruction: Outlines: Outline of American Literature: glossary

"A. . . perception of inconsistency, [usually but not always humorous], in which an apparently straightforward statement or event is undermined by its context so as to give it a very different significance. . . [V]erbal irony. . . ...
Invented Worlds: Literary & Film Terms

In literary criticism, the effect of language in which the intended meaning is the opposite of what is stated.
Glossary of Literary Terms

Irony takes many forms. In irony of situation, the result of an action is the reverse of what the actor expected. Macbeth murders his king hoping that in becoming king he will achieve great happiness. ...
Literary Terms F - R

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[Procrustes Stretched]

I have had a few fixed beliefs all my life in the arena of spirituality.

The first is that dead is dead. Period. There is no after-life of any sort. I take great comfort in this notion because once I have died, there'll be nothing left of me to experience anxiety or any other sort of distress.

The second is that there is a God. Some evidence of divinity is visible to me in almost every human. In nature. In science. In math.

Consequently, I believe the ethical behavior of any human is desirable and pleasing to God, but the only punishment for unethical behavior is that the actor loses his self-regard, his humanity is diminished, and he moves away from God.

Prayer may be self-comforting but God does not alter the course of events because we send up entreaties. He might, however, boost our coping power if we ask nicely.

I think this is an unusual arrangement of beliefs, and I wondered if I was sharing it with anyone else.

And for those of you whose ethical systems are based on a reward in the hereafter, can anyone explain to me why I can find the instant reward in doing the right thing, but you need a dangling carrot of a promise of Heaven to follow your ethical precepts?

Do you honestly think that evil acts are satisfying? I see them as failures, lapses in judgment and future regrets.

You had me on the first part and then like most creepy religious nuts you dropped the deceit and followed up with too much god busllshit.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

I believe you big blue font is pissing people off and makes your words get wasted because even I find it hard to finish reading anything you write.

SEE THE IRONY? WELLDOYAHUH?

I'm getting a headcahe! I cat'mn even spelt rihgt.

 

[Madeline]

What do you mean by God?

I can only really tell you what I believe God is NOT.

God is not the sum of a committee of supernatural beings, nor does he have a minion of lesser supernatural beings acting at his beck and call.

God is not Heaven's hall monitor.

God is not merely the apex of goodness in humans. However, God "inhabits" humans more fully if they are good. Some folks just do seem to me to have more "divinity" to them. Others, almost none.

God is not alive; he did not get born and he will not die.

Most likely, God inhabits the entire Universe and whilst it is possible to glimpse him, no living being can or ever has "known" him.