Anyone Else Believe As I Do?

[Madeline]

I have had a few fixed beliefs all my life in the arena of spirituality.

The first is that dead is dead. Period. There is no after-life of any sort. I take great comfort in this notion because once I have died, there'll be nothing left of me to experience anxiety or any other sort of distress.

The second is that there is a God. Some evidence of divinity is visible to me in almost every human. In nature. In science. In math.

Consequently, I believe the ethical behavior of any human is desirable and pleasing to God, but the only punishment for unethical behavior is that the actor loses his self-regard, his humanity is diminished, and he moves away from God.

Prayer may be self-comforting but God does not alter the course of events because we send up entreaties. He might, however, boost our coping power if we ask nicely.

I think this is an unusual arrangement of beliefs, and I wondered if I was sharing it with anyone else.

And for those of you whose ethical systems are based on a reward in the hereafter, can anyone explain to me why I can find the instant reward in doing the right thing, but you need a dangling carrot of a promise of Heaven to follow your ethical precepts?

Do you honestly think that evil acts are satisfying? I see them as failures, lapses in judgment and future regrets.

I've found that fixed beliefs have a way of sneaking up on me and disabusing me of such notions by a well timed kick in the head.

I've felt familiar in places I've never been, and with people I'd never met. The jury is out on that.

Maybe divinity is within us all. I've been monumentally tired. Couldn't take another step. Dreams of light, soup (still looking for that recipe), warnings and encouragement from a cherub (amputee?) and one of a big feather bed (on a barge?) I was allowed to nap in pulled me through not only through the next day, but months and sometimes years. Maybe our mind makes up what it needs to be told to get through, maybe that IS the divine in our lives. Then again, what designed the mind to do such things? Again, the jury is out.

The best part of religions teach the damage done to self through dishonorable acts, and that freely given grace extended to those supposedly least worthy of that grace (and haven't we all been on both sides of that?) is one of the truly humanitarian acts inspired by the divinity within ourselves.

I think we determine our destiny, but also that small things we do have a ripple effect, for good or bad, and if more concentrated on feeding what is beneficial to others, the world would be a better place.

This view of ethics and their operation is almost exactly my own. Ever heard of a name for it Barb?

 

[Madeline]

The Middleman wrote:

This sounds like the beliefs of many Jews, who do not necessarily believe in an afterlife, but do believe in God and a defined system of ethics.

Yes, you are right. I considered converting but then got bogged down in the minutia. Which brand of Judaism do I convert to? A study of the branches of this faith could take the rest of my life all by itself. Would I keep kosher? Would I attend services on the Sabbath? Would I pay ahead for my own for burial in a Jewish cemetary?

The up side of converting, apart from all the brain workouts I'd get, was the right to worship in a group. But I'm not even clear as to whether I have any need to worship, period.

It isn't as if God is Tinkerbelle, about to flicker out because not enough humans believe. What purpose does worship serve? I couldn't answer this, so I kinda sorta dropped the idea of converting.

 

[Madeline]

But what kind of 'God' do Jews believe in? Do all Christians think of God in the same way? What is God? Is God a concept or a state of being beyond conception? Is the God of Muslims, Christians and Jews the same God? What about religions that don't have the term 'God'?

Yes, Christians and Jews have a shared vision of God. They are divergent because the Christians believe in two auxillary Gods, but the Jews do not. I am fairly certain the Muslims also lay claim to a God that is a shared view with Jews, but apparently they feel they have an exclusive vision of how God wants humans to live and thus, no one who departs from that mode is living right -- including the Jews.

I'm not sure you can really call a belief system that has no role for the divine a "religion".

 

[Madeline]

I have had a few fixed beliefs all my life in the arena of spirituality.

The first is that dead is dead. Period. There is no after-life of any sort. I take great comfort in this notion because once I have died, there'll be nothing left of me to experience anxiety or any other sort of distress.

The second is that there is a God. Some evidence of divinity is visible to me in almost every human. In nature. In science. In math.

Consequently, I believe the ethical behavior of any human is desirable and pleasing to God, but the only punishment for unethical behavior is that the actor loses his self-regard, his humanity is diminished, and he moves away from God.

Prayer may be self-comforting but God does not alter the course of events because we send up entreaties. He might, however, boost our coping power if we ask nicely.

I think this is an unusual arrangement of beliefs, and I wondered if I was sharing it with anyone else.

And for those of you whose ethical systems are based on a reward in the hereafter, can anyone explain to me why I can find the instant reward in doing the right thing, but you need a dangling carrot of a promise of Heaven to follow your ethical precepts?

Do you honestly think that evil acts are satisfying? I see them as failures, lapses in judgment and future regrets.

Bad News, Bluetype

You are going to hell!

I'll see you by the big burning rock next to Satans heels, Bluetype!

amrchaos, ever pause and reflect on this glee you feel as you contemplate what you imagine the After-life will be like for those you feel anger towards?

EXACTLY which bible passage tells you to "rejoice in the sorrows and suffering of your fellow man"?

 

[Granny]

But what kind of 'God' do Jews believe in? Do all Christians think of God in the same way? What is God? Is God a concept or a state of being beyond conception? Is the God of Muslims, Christians and Jews the same God? What about religions that don't have the term 'God'?

Yes, Christians and Jews have a shared vision of God. They are divergent because the Christians believe in two auxillary Gods, but the Jews do not. I am fairly certain the Muslims also lay claim to a God that is a shared view with Jews, but apparently they feel they have an exclusive vision of how God wants humans to live and thus, no one who departs from that mode is living right -- including the Jews.

I'm not sure you can really call a belief system that has no role for the divine a "religion".

Ah - the Muslims. You need to go all the way back to Abraham, Sarah his wife and mother of Isaac, and Hagar his concubine who gave birth to Ishmael. There are some similarities of various events, but also differences. What I think is completely overlooked is that God kept his promises to Isaac and to Ishmael; Ishmael was promised that his descendants would multiply and cover the world - and so they have. Isaac was sort of an "ancestor" to mankind in that the descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob who kept God's laws would be rewarded for doing so.

History tells us that the prophet Mohammad created a lot of terror, pain and bloodshed to those who failed to follow him and make his beliefs their own.

 

[Sky Dancer]

But what kind of 'God' do Jews believe in? Do all Christians think of God in the same way? What is God? Is God a concept or a state of being beyond conception? Is the God of Muslims, Christians and Jews the same God? What about religions that don't have the term 'God'?

Yes, Christians and Jews have a shared vision of God. They are divergent because the Christians believe in two auxillary Gods, but the Jews do not. I am fairly certain the Muslims also lay claim to a God that is a shared view with Jews, but apparently they feel they have an exclusive vision of how God wants humans to live and thus, no one who departs from that mode is living right -- including the Jews.

I'm not sure you can really call a belief system that has no role for the divine a "religion".

In that case, Buddhism would not be considered a world religion since it doesn't have a divine presence.

 

[Madeline]

Really? There's no creation myth? No Higher Power? I'm apparently very badly informed, then. I thought Buddha believed/taught it was possible to exaggerate the divine inside oneself through certain acts and thoughts?

 

[Sky Dancer]

Really? There's no creation myth? No Higher Power? I'm apparently very badly informed, then. I thought Buddha believed/taught it was possible to exaggerate the divine inside oneself through certain acts and thoughts?

No Buddhist creation myth. No higher power. Buddha, in Tibetan, means to 'clear away' (negative qualites) and 'to (allow positive qualites to) unfold'. In Sanskrit, Buddha means 'one who is awake.'

Buddha is not God, nor a higher power.

 

[Barb]

This view of ethics and their operation is almost exactly my own. Ever heard of a name for it Barb?

No, its not a religion or any organization of beliefs. Just what I've been able to see so far.

 

[Old Rocks]

I was raised in a very fundementalist protestant family. By the time I was 12, I had read both the Old and New Testament twice. The basis of my agnosticism.

If there be a diety, I hardly see how as limited of minds as humans presently have could possibly begin to comprehend that diety's thoughts or purposes. Therefore, any time someone claims to be a representative of what ever diety, I have severe reservations concerning their sanity.

As for life or continued existance of some type after death, nice thought, but if there is, hardly likely it is anything like anyone can imagine.

Reason for moral actions? We are all part of a human tapestry. Immoral acts, those that weakon the tapestry, create a lessor world for our descentents are immoral. However much the individual gained through those actions, humanity suffers for them. If such individuals believe their existance is more important than the whole of humanity, the not only lack morality and ethics, but also sanity.

A muddled view of the universe? Possibly. But the universe is kind of a muddled place in any case.

 

[rdean]

You can't prove there is nothing after death and you can't prove the existence of magical spirits. So I don't really think about it.
More important is what we do when we are alive.