antifa threw rocks, urine and bottles at police

[Ringel05]

So does that mean the multitude of the peaceful protesters in Boston didn't exist?

Not at all. I'm sure there were peaceful protesters in Boston just as there were in Charlottesville. And I don't tar everybody with the violence anywhere--just those looking for it and instigating it and participating in it. So conversely I can't excuse the violent people because not everybody is.

Are there peaceful Antifa people who abhor violence? I don't know. Do you?

Based on the law of averages, yes. As for the Boston protest the police themselves claimed the vast majority (99%) were well behaved.

I don't think all 40,000 counter protesters who showed up in Boston were Antifa. Probably a small portion of them were and it is that small portion that created the problems they had. 1% of 40,000 is 400 people. 400 people can create a lot of problems and did.

But the fact that 40,000 people showed up to shut down a free speech rally just because there might have been a few 'objectionable' people there is really scary to me. We are literally losing our First Amendment rights when the militants can deny us ability to use them.

From the Free SpeechMovement who organized the Boston rally:

This Free Speech Movement is dedicated to peaceful rallies and are in no way affiliated with the Charlottesville rally on 8/12/17

While we maintain that every individual is entitled to their freedom of speech and defend that basic human right, we will not be offering our platform to racism or bigotry. We denounce the politics of supremacy and violence. We denounce the actions, activities, and tactics of the so-called Antifa movement. We denounce the normalization of political violence.

We are witnessing an unprecedented move towards sweeping censorship that undermines our democratic system. We are witnessing increasingly regular incidents of political violence being used to silence political opponents. We are witnessing our social media and online communities purging both progressive and conservative content from their networks. We oppose all instances of censorship. We believe that the way to defeat and disarm toxic ideas and ideologies is through dialogue and reason, and that attempting to silence any voice by force of mob or force of law only empowers the radical elements of society and divides us.

There is a lot of misinformation in the media slandering our name by likening our organization to those that ran the Charlottesville rally. THIS COULD NOT BE FURTHER FROM THE TRUTH! “I can tell you the march we had in May…That group pulled a permit, they worked very well with us” as stated by Boston Police Commissioner William Evans in a press conference Monday (8/14/17)

We are a coalition of libertarians, progressives, conservatives, and independents and we welcome all individuals and organizations from any political affiliations that are willing to peaceably engage in open dialogue about the threats to, and importance of, free speech and civil liberties. Join us at the Parkman Bandstand where we will be holding our event. We look forward to this tide-changing peaceful event that has the potential to be a shining example of how we, in the city of Boston, can come together for the common goal of preserving freedom of speech for all and respectfully discussing our differences of opinion without engaging in violence.

#BostonFreeSpeech​

Antifa is a coalition of different groups, those who used to protest the World Monetary Fund and World Bank were a coalition of different groups. The common factor we found with both these organizations is that in almost all cases it was the anarchist faction that perpetuated the most violence. The media, hence the viewers always focus on the violent and not those who are not being violent. Why? Because it sells, ratings, so we the viewing public are left with a skewed vision of events. Take that combined with the ever present search for bias confirmation and suddenly they're all bad or all good depending on one's viewpoint.
You're making assumptions based solely on your bias not on observable fact.

Maybe so. But those who have been at these things and tell me about them would say that you are the one making assumptions about what is going on. And I witnessed it first hand here in Albuquerque. It wasn't pretty. And our friends who live in Boston report the event as downright scary there.

I never said they were all non-violent. Besides your personal experience has obviously colored you perception, that's normal.

 

[Ringel05]

In your apparent view of Antifa you did the same thing the OP did, you're generalizing and stereotyping. Is that your intent?

I did not intend to generalize anything. I intended to be specific that I do not see Antifa as any kind of noble, well intentioned, non violent organization. It just isn't no matter how they characterize themselves. I judge them not by what they say but by what they do. I have looked for some examples of peaceful constructive rallies and protests they have staged. So far I haven't found any, but the odds are good that there have probably been some.

I don't draw any moral equivolancy between Antifa and the KKK or any other extreme groups. They are all their own entities, they are each responsible for their own actions.

I certainly won't commend Antifa when they do bad stuff any more than any other group who does bad stuff. To defend them because 'at least they aren't as bad as ______' is just silly. And to tar peaceful protesters or demonstrators or rally goers as equally guilty for the violence just because an uninvited KKK or neo-Nazis or Antifa showed up is even more silly.

So does that mean the multitude of the peaceful protesters in Boston didn't exist?

Not at all. I'm sure there were peaceful protesters in Boston just as there were in Charlottesville. And I don't tar everybody with the violence anywhere--just those looking for it and instigating it and participating in it. So conversely I can't excuse the violent people because not everybody is.

Are there peaceful Antifa people who abhor violence? I don't know. Do you?

Based on the law of averages, yes. As for the Boston protest the police themselves claimed the vast majority (99%) were well behaved.

"Well behaved"? No.

You have proof the Boston PD doesn't have?

 

[Old Rocks]

So does that mean the multitude of the peaceful protesters in Boston didn't exist?

Not at all. I'm sure there were peaceful protesters in Boston just as there were in Charlottesville. And I don't tar everybody with the violence anywhere--just those looking for it and instigating it and participating in it. So conversely I can't excuse the violent people because not everybody is.

Are there peaceful Antifa people who abhor violence? I don't know. Do you?

Based on the law of averages, yes. As for the Boston protest the police themselves claimed the vast majority (99%) were well behaved.

I don't think all 40,000 counter protesters who showed up in Boston were Antifa. Probably a small portion of them were and it is that small portion that created the problems they had. 1% of 40,000 is 400 people. 400 people can create a lot of problems and did.

But the fact that 40,000 people showed up to shut down a free speech rally just because there might have been a few 'objectionable' people there is really scary to me. We are literally losing our First Amendment rights when the militants can deny us ability to use them.

From the Free SpeechMovement who organized the Boston rally:

This Free Speech Movement is dedicated to peaceful rallies and are in no way affiliated with the Charlottesville rally on 8/12/17

While we maintain that every individual is entitled to their freedom of speech and defend that basic human right, we will not be offering our platform to racism or bigotry. We denounce the politics of supremacy and violence. We denounce the actions, activities, and tactics of the so-called Antifa movement. We denounce the normalization of political violence.

We are witnessing an unprecedented move towards sweeping censorship that undermines our democratic system. We are witnessing increasingly regular incidents of political violence being used to silence political opponents. We are witnessing our social media and online communities purging both progressive and conservative content from their networks. We oppose all instances of censorship. We believe that the way to defeat and disarm toxic ideas and ideologies is through dialogue and reason, and that attempting to silence any voice by force of mob or force of law only empowers the radical elements of society and divides us.

There is a lot of misinformation in the media slandering our name by likening our organization to those that ran the Charlottesville rally. THIS COULD NOT BE FURTHER FROM THE TRUTH! “I can tell you the march we had in May…That group pulled a permit, they worked very well with us” as stated by Boston Police Commissioner William Evans in a press conference Monday (8/14/17)

We are a coalition of libertarians, progressives, conservatives, and independents and we welcome all individuals and organizations from any political affiliations that are willing to peaceably engage in open dialogue about the threats to, and importance of, free speech and civil liberties. Join us at the Parkman Bandstand where we will be holding our event. We look forward to this tide-changing peaceful event that has the potential to be a shining example of how we, in the city of Boston, can come together for the common goal of preserving freedom of speech for all and respectfully discussing our differences of opinion without engaging in violence.

#BostonFreeSpeech​

Antifa is a coalition of different groups, those who used to protest the World Monetary Fund and World Bank were a coalition of different groups. The common factor we found with both these organizations is that in almost all cases it was the anarchist faction that perpetuated the most violence. The media, hence the viewers always focus on the violent and not those who are not being violent. Why? Because it sells, ratings, so we the viewing public are left with a skewed vision of events. Take that combined with the ever present search for bias confirmation and suddenly they're all bad or all good depending on one's viewpoint.
You're making assumptions based solely on your bias not on observable fact.

Maybe so. But those who have been at these things and tell me about them would say that you are the one making assumptions about what is going on. And I witnessed it first hand here in Albuquerque. It wasn't pretty. And our friends who live in Boston report the event as downright scary there.

I bet that the Boston rally was scary if your buds are neo-nazis.

 

[Ringel05]

Not at all. I'm sure there were peaceful protesters in Boston just as there were in Charlottesville. And I don't tar everybody with the violence anywhere--just those looking for it and instigating it and participating in it. So conversely I can't excuse the violent people because not everybody is.

Are there peaceful Antifa people who abhor violence? I don't know. Do you?

Based on the law of averages, yes. As for the Boston protest the police themselves claimed the vast majority (99%) were well behaved.

I don't think all 40,000 counter protesters who showed up in Boston were Antifa. Probably a small portion of them were and it is that small portion that created the problems they had. 1% of 40,000 is 400 people. 400 people can create a lot of problems and did.

But the fact that 40,000 people showed up to shut down a free speech rally just because there might have been a few 'objectionable' people there is really scary to me. We are literally losing our First Amendment rights when the militants can deny us ability to use them.

From the Free SpeechMovement who organized the Boston rally:

This Free Speech Movement is dedicated to peaceful rallies and are in no way affiliated with the Charlottesville rally on 8/12/17

While we maintain that every individual is entitled to their freedom of speech and defend that basic human right, we will not be offering our platform to racism or bigotry. We denounce the politics of supremacy and violence. We denounce the actions, activities, and tactics of the so-called Antifa movement. We denounce the normalization of political violence.

We are witnessing an unprecedented move towards sweeping censorship that undermines our democratic system. We are witnessing increasingly regular incidents of political violence being used to silence political opponents. We are witnessing our social media and online communities purging both progressive and conservative content from their networks. We oppose all instances of censorship. We believe that the way to defeat and disarm toxic ideas and ideologies is through dialogue and reason, and that attempting to silence any voice by force of mob or force of law only empowers the radical elements of society and divides us.

There is a lot of misinformation in the media slandering our name by likening our organization to those that ran the Charlottesville rally. THIS COULD NOT BE FURTHER FROM THE TRUTH! “I can tell you the march we had in May…That group pulled a permit, they worked very well with us” as stated by Boston Police Commissioner William Evans in a press conference Monday (8/14/17)

We are a coalition of libertarians, progressives, conservatives, and independents and we welcome all individuals and organizations from any political affiliations that are willing to peaceably engage in open dialogue about the threats to, and importance of, free speech and civil liberties. Join us at the Parkman Bandstand where we will be holding our event. We look forward to this tide-changing peaceful event that has the potential to be a shining example of how we, in the city of Boston, can come together for the common goal of preserving freedom of speech for all and respectfully discussing our differences of opinion without engaging in violence.

#BostonFreeSpeech​

Antifa is a coalition of different groups, those who used to protest the World Monetary Fund and World Bank were a coalition of different groups. The common factor we found with both these organizations is that in almost all cases it was the anarchist faction that perpetuated the most violence. The media, hence the viewers always focus on the violent and not those who are not being violent. Why? Because it sells, ratings, so we the viewing public are left with a skewed vision of events. Take that combined with the ever present search for bias confirmation and suddenly they're all bad or all good depending on one's viewpoint.
You're making assumptions based solely on your bias not on observable fact.

Maybe so. But those who have been at these things and tell me about them would say that you are the one making assumptions about what is going on. And I witnessed it first hand here in Albuquerque. It wasn't pretty. And our friends who live in Boston report the event as downright scary there.

I bet that the Boston rally was scary if your buds are neo-nazis.

 

[Foxfyre]

Not at all. I'm sure there were peaceful protesters in Boston just as there were in Charlottesville. And I don't tar everybody with the violence anywhere--just those looking for it and instigating it and participating in it. So conversely I can't excuse the violent people because not everybody is.

Are there peaceful Antifa people who abhor violence? I don't know. Do you?

Based on the law of averages, yes. As for the Boston protest the police themselves claimed the vast majority (99%) were well behaved.

I don't think all 40,000 counter protesters who showed up in Boston were Antifa. Probably a small portion of them were and it is that small portion that created the problems they had. 1% of 40,000 is 400 people. 400 people can create a lot of problems and did.

But the fact that 40,000 people showed up to shut down a free speech rally just because there might have been a few 'objectionable' people there is really scary to me. We are literally losing our First Amendment rights when the militants can deny us ability to use them.

From the Free SpeechMovement who organized the Boston rally:

This Free Speech Movement is dedicated to peaceful rallies and are in no way affiliated with the Charlottesville rally on 8/12/17

While we maintain that every individual is entitled to their freedom of speech and defend that basic human right, we will not be offering our platform to racism or bigotry. We denounce the politics of supremacy and violence. We denounce the actions, activities, and tactics of the so-called Antifa movement. We denounce the normalization of political violence.

We are witnessing an unprecedented move towards sweeping censorship that undermines our democratic system. We are witnessing increasingly regular incidents of political violence being used to silence political opponents. We are witnessing our social media and online communities purging both progressive and conservative content from their networks. We oppose all instances of censorship. We believe that the way to defeat and disarm toxic ideas and ideologies is through dialogue and reason, and that attempting to silence any voice by force of mob or force of law only empowers the radical elements of society and divides us.

There is a lot of misinformation in the media slandering our name by likening our organization to those that ran the Charlottesville rally. THIS COULD NOT BE FURTHER FROM THE TRUTH! “I can tell you the march we had in May…That group pulled a permit, they worked very well with us” as stated by Boston Police Commissioner William Evans in a press conference Monday (8/14/17)

We are a coalition of libertarians, progressives, conservatives, and independents and we welcome all individuals and organizations from any political affiliations that are willing to peaceably engage in open dialogue about the threats to, and importance of, free speech and civil liberties. Join us at the Parkman Bandstand where we will be holding our event. We look forward to this tide-changing peaceful event that has the potential to be a shining example of how we, in the city of Boston, can come together for the common goal of preserving freedom of speech for all and respectfully discussing our differences of opinion without engaging in violence.

#BostonFreeSpeech​

Antifa is a coalition of different groups, those who used to protest the World Monetary Fund and World Bank were a coalition of different groups. The common factor we found with both these organizations is that in almost all cases it was the anarchist faction that perpetuated the most violence. The media, hence the viewers always focus on the violent and not those who are not being violent. Why? Because it sells, ratings, so we the viewing public are left with a skewed vision of events. Take that combined with the ever present search for bias confirmation and suddenly they're all bad or all good depending on one's viewpoint.
You're making assumptions based solely on your bias not on observable fact.

Maybe so. But those who have been at these things and tell me about them would say that you are the one making assumptions about what is going on. And I witnessed it first hand here in Albuquerque. It wasn't pretty. And our friends who live in Boston report the event as downright scary there.

I never said they were all non-violent. Besides you personal experience has obviously colored you perception, that's normal.

Yes, personal experience does generally affect our perceptions. Those without the personal experience are also uniquely unqualified to judge those who experienced it.

 

[Old Rocks]

trump tried to draw a moral equivalence between the Nazis and the KKK, and those protesters who were demonstrating against hate and racism. Such an equivalence does NOT exist.

The Nazis murdered millions during WWll, including hundreds of thousands of AMERICANS.

The KKK murdered thousands, probably tens of thousands of our fellow AMERICAN citizens.

How can you possibly excuse and defend them — and even take their side? You are an American, aren't you?

It's true that both groups caused some problems. What is a LIE is trying to imply that both sides are somehow alike. One group has a long history of MURDER of our own citizens.

The other side BLM and antifa were protesting the clear racism of the KKK and Nazis.

In my opinion he made absolutely no moral equivalence. He simply said both sides were to blame which is true.

Well, you're the only person on the planet defending the orange dildo. Everyone else agrees Donnie-boy is an imbecile.

She's defending Trump or is she stating the obvious? Or is it you're being a partisan imbecile? Looks a lot like the latter.

I make no apology for considering trump a racist, worthless waste of skin.

But trumps statements on the KKK, Nazis vs anti-protesters were condemned by leaders around the world. And here, they were condemned by a load of our own Congressmen including many republicans, a couple of past republican presidents, and republican presidential candidated.

So please try to THINK before posting your idiotic comments and insults, you brainless piece of shit.

Trump's statements were fine. They were condemned by people on both sides who had an ax to grind with him. And the fake news grabbed it and ran with it.

The statements by the treasonous fat senile old orange clown were not fine. The were a pass for the KKK and Neo-Nazis, and are justly condemned by all moral and ethical people.

 

[Ringel05]

Based on the law of averages, yes. As for the Boston protest the police themselves claimed the vast majority (99%) were well behaved.

I don't think all 40,000 counter protesters who showed up in Boston were Antifa. Probably a small portion of them were and it is that small portion that created the problems they had. 1% of 40,000 is 400 people. 400 people can create a lot of problems and did.

But the fact that 40,000 people showed up to shut down a free speech rally just because there might have been a few 'objectionable' people there is really scary to me. We are literally losing our First Amendment rights when the militants can deny us ability to use them.

From the Free SpeechMovement who organized the Boston rally:

This Free Speech Movement is dedicated to peaceful rallies and are in no way affiliated with the Charlottesville rally on 8/12/17

While we maintain that every individual is entitled to their freedom of speech and defend that basic human right, we will not be offering our platform to racism or bigotry. We denounce the politics of supremacy and violence. We denounce the actions, activities, and tactics of the so-called Antifa movement. We denounce the normalization of political violence.

We are witnessing an unprecedented move towards sweeping censorship that undermines our democratic system. We are witnessing increasingly regular incidents of political violence being used to silence political opponents. We are witnessing our social media and online communities purging both progressive and conservative content from their networks. We oppose all instances of censorship. We believe that the way to defeat and disarm toxic ideas and ideologies is through dialogue and reason, and that attempting to silence any voice by force of mob or force of law only empowers the radical elements of society and divides us.

There is a lot of misinformation in the media slandering our name by likening our organization to those that ran the Charlottesville rally. THIS COULD NOT BE FURTHER FROM THE TRUTH! “I can tell you the march we had in May…That group pulled a permit, they worked very well with us” as stated by Boston Police Commissioner William Evans in a press conference Monday (8/14/17)

We are a coalition of libertarians, progressives, conservatives, and independents and we welcome all individuals and organizations from any political affiliations that are willing to peaceably engage in open dialogue about the threats to, and importance of, free speech and civil liberties. Join us at the Parkman Bandstand where we will be holding our event. We look forward to this tide-changing peaceful event that has the potential to be a shining example of how we, in the city of Boston, can come together for the common goal of preserving freedom of speech for all and respectfully discussing our differences of opinion without engaging in violence.

#BostonFreeSpeech​

Antifa is a coalition of different groups, those who used to protest the World Monetary Fund and World Bank were a coalition of different groups. The common factor we found with both these organizations is that in almost all cases it was the anarchist faction that perpetuated the most violence. The media, hence the viewers always focus on the violent and not those who are not being violent. Why? Because it sells, ratings, so we the viewing public are left with a skewed vision of events. Take that combined with the ever present search for bias confirmation and suddenly they're all bad or all good depending on one's viewpoint.
You're making assumptions based solely on your bias not on observable fact.

Maybe so. But those who have been at these things and tell me about them would say that you are the one making assumptions about what is going on. And I witnessed it first hand here in Albuquerque. It wasn't pretty. And our friends who live in Boston report the event as downright scary there.

I never said they were all non-violent. Besides you personal experience has obviously colored you perception, that's normal.

Yes, personal experience does generally affect our perceptions. Those without the personal experience are also uniquely unqualified to judge those who experienced it.

Not judging, simply pointing out empirical scientific fact.

 

[Ringel05]

In my opinion he made absolutely no moral equivalence. He simply said both sides were to blame which is true.

Well, you're the only person on the planet defending the orange dildo. Everyone else agrees Donnie-boy is an imbecile.

She's defending Trump or is she stating the obvious? Or is it you're being a partisan imbecile? Looks a lot like the latter.

I make no apology for considering trump a racist, worthless waste of skin.

But trumps statements on the KKK, Nazis vs anti-protesters were condemned by leaders around the world. And here, they were condemned by a load of our own Congressmen including many republicans, a couple of past republican presidents, and republican presidential candidated.

So please try to THINK before posting your idiotic comments and insults, you brainless piece of shit.

Trump's statements were fine. They were condemned by people on both sides who had an ax to grind with him. And the fake news grabbed it and ran with it.

The statements by the treasonous fat senile old orange clown were not fine. The were a pass for the KKK and Neo-Nazis, and are justly condemned by all moral and ethical people.

 

[Foxfyre]

Not at all. I'm sure there were peaceful protesters in Boston just as there were in Charlottesville. And I don't tar everybody with the violence anywhere--just those looking for it and instigating it and participating in it. So conversely I can't excuse the violent people because not everybody is.

Are there peaceful Antifa people who abhor violence? I don't know. Do you?

Based on the law of averages, yes. As for the Boston protest the police themselves claimed the vast majority (99%) were well behaved.

I don't think all 40,000 counter protesters who showed up in Boston were Antifa. Probably a small portion of them were and it is that small portion that created the problems they had. 1% of 40,000 is 400 people. 400 people can create a lot of problems and did.

But the fact that 40,000 people showed up to shut down a free speech rally just because there might have been a few 'objectionable' people there is really scary to me. We are literally losing our First Amendment rights when the militants can deny us ability to use them.

From the Free SpeechMovement who organized the Boston rally:

This Free Speech Movement is dedicated to peaceful rallies and are in no way affiliated with the Charlottesville rally on 8/12/17

While we maintain that every individual is entitled to their freedom of speech and defend that basic human right, we will not be offering our platform to racism or bigotry. We denounce the politics of supremacy and violence. We denounce the actions, activities, and tactics of the so-called Antifa movement. We denounce the normalization of political violence.

We are witnessing an unprecedented move towards sweeping censorship that undermines our democratic system. We are witnessing increasingly regular incidents of political violence being used to silence political opponents. We are witnessing our social media and online communities purging both progressive and conservative content from their networks. We oppose all instances of censorship. We believe that the way to defeat and disarm toxic ideas and ideologies is through dialogue and reason, and that attempting to silence any voice by force of mob or force of law only empowers the radical elements of society and divides us.

There is a lot of misinformation in the media slandering our name by likening our organization to those that ran the Charlottesville rally. THIS COULD NOT BE FURTHER FROM THE TRUTH! “I can tell you the march we had in May…That group pulled a permit, they worked very well with us” as stated by Boston Police Commissioner William Evans in a press conference Monday (8/14/17)

We are a coalition of libertarians, progressives, conservatives, and independents and we welcome all individuals and organizations from any political affiliations that are willing to peaceably engage in open dialogue about the threats to, and importance of, free speech and civil liberties. Join us at the Parkman Bandstand where we will be holding our event. We look forward to this tide-changing peaceful event that has the potential to be a shining example of how we, in the city of Boston, can come together for the common goal of preserving freedom of speech for all and respectfully discussing our differences of opinion without engaging in violence.

#BostonFreeSpeech​

Antifa is a coalition of different groups, those who used to protest the World Monetary Fund and World Bank were a coalition of different groups. The common factor we found with both these organizations is that in almost all cases it was the anarchist faction that perpetuated the most violence. The media, hence the viewers always focus on the violent and not those who are not being violent. Why? Because it sells, ratings, so we the viewing public are left with a skewed vision of events. Take that combined with the ever present search for bias confirmation and suddenly they're all bad or all good depending on one's viewpoint.
You're making assumptions based solely on your bias not on observable fact.

Maybe so. But those who have been at these things and tell me about them would say that you are the one making assumptions about what is going on. And I witnessed it first hand here in Albuquerque. It wasn't pretty. And our friends who live in Boston report the event as downright scary there.

I bet that the Boston rally was scary if your buds are neo-nazis.

They aren't though. They are pretty hard nosed environmental conscious, Hillary supporting vegetarians--maybe vegans, I'm not sure. But they are also intelligent, thinking people who resent those who would attack police officers and attempt to create chaos. And, to their credit, they resented protest of a small free speech rally as it was not the free speech people who were chanting angry slogans, who were injuring people, causing property damage, and assaulting police officers. What would have happened if the police had not been out in force? An angry 'peaceful' protest can turn into an angry destructive mob pretty quickly.

That an estimated 40,000 people would show up to prevent a small peaceful rally event is indeed scary to me. When we no longer allow the exchange of all kinds of opinion and ideas without going militant, we have indeed lost the best part of what America is intended to be.

And I am about as anti-Nazi and anti-white supremacy of any sort as you can find anywhere. But so long as they do not act out their opinions and do not incite unlawfulness or violence, they have as much right to have and express them as anybody else. When we start picking and choosing what kind of ideas and opinions people are allowed to have, nobody is safe from the thought police who will dictate what is and is not acceptable.

 

[Foxfyre]

I don't think all 40,000 counter protesters who showed up in Boston were Antifa. Probably a small portion of them were and it is that small portion that created the problems they had. 1% of 40,000 is 400 people. 400 people can create a lot of problems and did.

But the fact that 40,000 people showed up to shut down a free speech rally just because there might have been a few 'objectionable' people there is really scary to me. We are literally losing our First Amendment rights when the militants can deny us ability to use them.

From the Free SpeechMovement who organized the Boston rally:

This Free Speech Movement is dedicated to peaceful rallies and are in no way affiliated with the Charlottesville rally on 8/12/17

While we maintain that every individual is entitled to their freedom of speech and defend that basic human right, we will not be offering our platform to racism or bigotry. We denounce the politics of supremacy and violence. We denounce the actions, activities, and tactics of the so-called Antifa movement. We denounce the normalization of political violence.

We are witnessing an unprecedented move towards sweeping censorship that undermines our democratic system. We are witnessing increasingly regular incidents of political violence being used to silence political opponents. We are witnessing our social media and online communities purging both progressive and conservative content from their networks. We oppose all instances of censorship. We believe that the way to defeat and disarm toxic ideas and ideologies is through dialogue and reason, and that attempting to silence any voice by force of mob or force of law only empowers the radical elements of society and divides us.

There is a lot of misinformation in the media slandering our name by likening our organization to those that ran the Charlottesville rally. THIS COULD NOT BE FURTHER FROM THE TRUTH! “I can tell you the march we had in May…That group pulled a permit, they worked very well with us” as stated by Boston Police Commissioner William Evans in a press conference Monday (8/14/17)

We are a coalition of libertarians, progressives, conservatives, and independents and we welcome all individuals and organizations from any political affiliations that are willing to peaceably engage in open dialogue about the threats to, and importance of, free speech and civil liberties. Join us at the Parkman Bandstand where we will be holding our event. We look forward to this tide-changing peaceful event that has the potential to be a shining example of how we, in the city of Boston, can come together for the common goal of preserving freedom of speech for all and respectfully discussing our differences of opinion without engaging in violence.

#BostonFreeSpeech​

Antifa is a coalition of different groups, those who used to protest the World Monetary Fund and World Bank were a coalition of different groups. The common factor we found with both these organizations is that in almost all cases it was the anarchist faction that perpetuated the most violence. The media, hence the viewers always focus on the violent and not those who are not being violent. Why? Because it sells, ratings, so we the viewing public are left with a skewed vision of events. Take that combined with the ever present search for bias confirmation and suddenly they're all bad or all good depending on one's viewpoint.
You're making assumptions based solely on your bias not on observable fact.

Maybe so. But those who have been at these things and tell me about them would say that you are the one making assumptions about what is going on. And I witnessed it first hand here in Albuquerque. It wasn't pretty. And our friends who live in Boston report the event as downright scary there.

I never said they were all non-violent. Besides you personal experience has obviously colored you perception, that's normal.

Yes, personal experience does generally affect our perceptions. Those without the personal experience are also uniquely unqualified to judge those who experienced it.

Not judging, simply pointing out empirical scientific fact.

Pointing it out in a very judgmental way.

 

[Ringel05]

Antifa is a coalition of different groups, those who used to protest the World Monetary Fund and World Bank were a coalition of different groups. The common factor we found with both these organizations is that in almost all cases it was the anarchist faction that perpetuated the most violence. The media, hence the viewers always focus on the violent and not those who are not being violent. Why? Because it sells, ratings, so we the viewing public are left with a skewed vision of events. Take that combined with the ever present search for bias confirmation and suddenly they're all bad or all good depending on one's viewpoint.
You're making assumptions based solely on your bias not on observable fact.

Maybe so. But those who have been at these things and tell me about them would say that you are the one making assumptions about what is going on. And I witnessed it first hand here in Albuquerque. It wasn't pretty. And our friends who live in Boston report the event as downright scary there.

I never said they were all non-violent. Besides you personal experience has obviously colored you perception, that's normal.

Yes, personal experience does generally affect our perceptions. Those without the personal experience are also uniquely unqualified to judge those who experienced it.

Not judging, simply pointing out empirical scientific fact.

Pointing it out in a very judgmental way.

That was not my intent at all but given that most people don't understand why they do what they do any pointing out of the psychological back pinnings will often appear to them to be judgemental and personal, another normal human reaction. It doesn't make one a terrible person just means they're normal, people don't like to be told they're just as human as the next person.

 

[Foxfyre]

Maybe so. But those who have been at these things and tell me about them would say that you are the one making assumptions about what is going on. And I witnessed it first hand here in Albuquerque. It wasn't pretty. And our friends who live in Boston report the event as downright scary there.

I never said they were all non-violent. Besides you personal experience has obviously colored you perception, that's normal.

Yes, personal experience does generally affect our perceptions. Those without the personal experience are also uniquely unqualified to judge those who experienced it.

Not judging, simply pointing out empirical scientific fact.

Pointing it out in a very judgmental way.

That was not my intent at all but given that most people don't understand why they do what they do any pointing out of the psychological back pinnings will often appear to them to be judgemental and personal, another normal human reaction. It doesn't make one a terrible person just means they're normal, people don't like to be told they're just as human as the next person.

I may or may not be as human as the next. But I do recognize judgmentalistic ad hominem when I see it. I do believe you that it wasn't your intention.

You know I love you dearly and on most things would give a great deal of weight to your opinion. But this time you are inferring motives or perceptions on my part that you have no way of knowing or discerning and I know that because you are just plain wrong about where I am coming from on this one.

Now if you wanted to argue how prejudices and perceptions are colored by life experience, etc. etc. etc. and how that might have colored perceptions of what happened in Boston, we could have a reasoned discussion on that without any ad hominem entering into it whatsoever.

But you won't convince me that what happened in Boston was okay and/or not comparable to what happened in Charlottesville and therefore I have a skewed perception and/or prejudice about it.

The two events are entirely comparable because they were generated by the exact same motives stated by the demonstrators themselves and they resulted in the exact same kind of violence and hatefulness. That there is a matter of degree does not change that fact at all.

 

[longly]

When you create a state of war the logical conclusion is that someone is going to die. It was predicted that someone was going to going to get killed and I was not surprised when it happened. And I predict that more will die; is it worth it to deny neo Nazi’s free speech? Do you really think anything they might say will change anything? If this protest had been allowed to go on un-molested we would have most likely have never heard of it. Other than the killer, who is responsible for the woman’s death in Charlottesville? The aggressor is always responsible for the violence that follows his attack. If Antifi attacked first they are responsible.

Free speech is important to the survival of democracy. If any citizen’s free speech is not safe, neither is mine or yours. We even allowed American Communist free speech during the Cold War when their goal was slavery to the state for all mankind.

 

[Foxfyre]

When you create a state of war the logical conclusion is that someone is going to die. It was predicted that someone was going to going to get killed and I was not surprised when it happened. And I predict that more will die; is it worth it to deny neo Nazi’s free speech? Do you really think anything they might say will change anything? If this protest had been allowed to go on un-molested we would have most likely have never heard of it. Other than the killer, who is responsible for the woman’s death in Charlottesville? The aggressor is always responsible for the violence that follows his attack. If Antifi attacked first they are responsible.

Free speech is important to the survival of democracy. If any citizen’s free speech is not safe, neither is mine or yours. We even allowed American Communist free speech during the Cold War when their goal was slavery to the state for all mankind.

Well said.

That is true. We even brought in a ranked communist from Russia to speak at our university and he was treated with utmost respect and courtesy. To have done otherwise would have been unthinkable in our day as students.

We also had speakers who if not Birchers were of that ilk even though they too we strongly disagreed with.

I don't care how 'peaceful' a crowd shouting angry slogans describes itself or what press it gets. When the goal is to deny others a voice for no other reason than we disagree strongly with them is not 'peaceful' but is dangerous to all our liberties.

 

[Ringel05]

I never said they were all non-violent. Besides you personal experience has obviously colored you perception, that's normal.

Yes, personal experience does generally affect our perceptions. Those without the personal experience are also uniquely unqualified to judge those who experienced it.

Not judging, simply pointing out empirical scientific fact.

Pointing it out in a very judgmental way.

That was not my intent at all but given that most people don't understand why they do what they do any pointing out of the psychological back pinnings will often appear to them to be judgemental and personal, another normal human reaction. It doesn't make one a terrible person just means they're normal, people don't like to be told they're just as human as the next person.

I may or may not be as human as the next. But I do recognize judgmentalistic ad hominem when I see it. I do believe you that it wasn't your intention.

You know I love you dearly and on most things would give a great deal of weight to your opinion. But this time you are inferring motives or perceptions on my part that you have no way of knowing or discerning and I know that because you are just plain wrong about where I am coming from on this one.

Now if you wanted to argue how prejudices and perceptions are colored by life experience, etc. etc. etc. and how that might have colored perceptions of what happened in Boston, we could have a reasoned discussion on that without any ad hominem entering into it whatsoever.

But you won't convince me that what happened in Boston was okay and/or not comparable to what happened in Charlottesville and therefore I have a skewed perception and/or prejudice about it.

The two events are entirely comparable because they were generated by the exact same motives stated by the demonstrators themselves and they resulted in the exact same kind of violence and hatefulness. That there is a matter of degree does not change that fact at all.

Well, hate to disagree with you but I was basing everything on what you posted and empirically known human behavior patterns, the only metrics I have available here. Not one bit of it was judgemental or ad hominem, even subconsciously but there is no way I could possibly convince you of that, you would have to do that yourself.

 

[Unkotare]

In my opinion he made absolutely no moral equivalence. He simply said both sides were to blame which is true.

Well, you're the only person on the planet defending the orange dildo. Everyone else agrees Donnie-boy is an imbecile.

She's defending Trump or is she stating the obvious? Or is it you're being a partisan imbecile? Looks a lot like the latter.

I make no apology for considering trump a racist, worthless waste of skin.

But trumps statements on the KKK, Nazis vs anti-protesters were condemned by leaders around the world. And here, they were condemned by a load of our own Congressmen including many republicans, a couple of past republican presidents, and republican presidential candidated.

So please try to THINK before posting your idiotic comments and insults, you brainless piece of shit.

Trump's statements were fine. They were condemned by people on both sides who had an ax to grind with him. And the fake news grabbed it and ran with it.

The statements by the treasonous fat senile old orange clown were not fine. The were a pass for the KKK and Neo-Nazis, and are justly condemned by all moral and ethical people.

You mean these statements?

"Racism is evil. And those who cause violence in its name are criminals and thugs, including the KKK, neo-Nazis, white supremacists, and other hate groups that are repugnant to everything we hold dear as Americans. "

 

[Ringel05]

I never said they were all non-violent. Besides you personal experience has obviously colored you perception, that's normal.

Yes, personal experience does generally affect our perceptions. Those without the personal experience are also uniquely unqualified to judge those who experienced it.

Not judging, simply pointing out empirical scientific fact.

Pointing it out in a very judgmental way.

That was not my intent at all but given that most people don't understand why they do what they do any pointing out of the psychological back pinnings will often appear to them to be judgemental and personal, another normal human reaction. It doesn't make one a terrible person just means they're normal, people don't like to be told they're just as human as the next person.

I may or may not be as human as the next. But I do recognize judgmentalistic ad hominem when I see it. I do believe you that it wasn't your intention.

You know I love you dearly and on most things would give a great deal of weight to your opinion. But this time you are inferring motives or perceptions on my part that you have no way of knowing or discerning and I know that because you are just plain wrong about where I am coming from on this one.

Now if you wanted to argue how prejudices and perceptions are colored by life experience, etc. etc. etc. and how that might have colored perceptions of what happened in Boston, we could have a reasoned discussion on that without any ad hominem entering into it whatsoever.

But you won't convince me that what happened in Boston was okay and/or not comparable to what happened in Charlottesville and therefore I have a skewed perception and/or prejudice about it.

The two events are entirely comparable because they were generated by the exact same motives stated by the demonstrators themselves and they resulted in the exact same kind of violence and hatefulness. That there is a matter of degree does not change that fact at all.

Also while I am completely anti fascist I have no love for Antifa just as I have no love for any white supremacist groups/individuals just as I had no love for any of our presidents past or present but I will defend specific aspects, deeds, etc in the name of fairness when it is called for.

 

[Foxfyre]

Maybe so. But those who have been at these things and tell me about them would say that you are the one making assumptions about what is going on. And I witnessed it first hand here in Albuquerque. It wasn't pretty. And our friends who live in Boston report the event as downright scary there.

I never said they were all non-violent. Besides you personal experience has obviously colored you perception, that's normal.

Yes, personal experience does generally affect our perceptions. Those without the personal experience are also uniquely unqualified to judge those who experienced it.

Not judging, simply pointing out empirical scientific fact.

Pointing it out in a very judgmental way.

That was not my intent at all but given that most people don't understand why they do what they do any pointing out of the psychological back pinnings will often appear to them to be judgemental and personal, another normal human reaction. It doesn't make one a terrible person just means they're normal, people don't like to be told they're just as human as the next person.

Yes, personal experience does generally affect our perceptions. Those without the personal experience are also uniquely unqualified to judge those who experienced it.

Not judging, simply pointing out empirical scientific fact.

Pointing it out in a very judgmental way.

That was not my intent at all but given that most people don't understand why they do what they do any pointing out of the psychological back pinnings will often appear to them to be judgemental and personal, another normal human reaction. It doesn't make one a terrible person just means they're normal, people don't like to be told they're just as human as the next person.

I may or may not be as human as the next. But I do recognize judgmentalistic ad hominem when I see it. I do believe you that it wasn't your intention.

You know I love you dearly and on most things would give a great deal of weight to your opinion. But this time you are inferring motives or perceptions on my part that you have no way of knowing or discerning and I know that because you are just plain wrong about where I am coming from on this one.

Now if you wanted to argue how prejudices and perceptions are colored by life experience, etc. etc. etc. and how that might have colored perceptions of what happened in Boston, we could have a reasoned discussion on that without any ad hominem entering into it whatsoever.

But you won't convince me that what happened in Boston was okay and/or not comparable to what happened in Charlottesville and therefore I have a skewed perception and/or prejudice about it.

The two events are entirely comparable because they were generated by the exact same motives stated by the demonstrators themselves and they resulted in the exact same kind of violence and hatefulness. That there is a matter of degree does not change that fact at all.

Well, hate to disagree with you but I was basing everything on what you posted and empirically known human behavior patterns, the only metrics I have available here. Not one bit of it was judgemental or ad hominem, even subconsciously but there is no way I could possibly convince you of that, you would have to do that yourself.

It was judgmental in insisting that I was operating on a motive or psychological parameter that I know I am not. And that's what ad hominem is; i.e. arguing via a person's motives or instincts or associations or presumed M.O. instead of what they actually say. Example: "Of course you feel that way because everybody does", or "Of course you think that. You're a right wing Republican." Ad hominem can be personally insulting but it does not have to be personally insulting in order to be ad hominem.

Sorry. Old debate coach here. Can't resist teaching a bit.

The argument in this thread is the righteousness or lack thereof of Antifa in Boston. I am not likely to be convinced that their actions, even for the non violent ones, are/were acceptable and so far you aren't convinced that Boston is comparable with Charlottesville.

And it is okay for friends to disagree.

 

[Roudy]

antifa thugs should be drinking their urine the next time. Maybe it will knock some sense into their shallow heads.

 

[monkrules]

Well, you're the only person on the planet defending the orange dildo. Everyone else agrees Donnie-boy is an imbecile.

She's defending Trump or is she stating the obvious? Or is it you're being a partisan imbecile? Looks a lot like the latter.

I make no apology for considering trump a racist, worthless waste of skin.

But trumps statements on the KKK, Nazis vs anti-protesters were condemned by leaders around the world. And here, they were condemned by a load of our own Congressmen including many republicans, a couple of past republican presidents, and republican presidential candidated.

So please try to THINK before posting your idiotic comments and insults, you brainless piece of shit.

Trump's statements were fine. They were condemned by people on both sides who had an ax to grind with him. And the fake news grabbed it and ran with it.

The statements by the treasonous fat senile old orange clown were not fine. The were a pass for the KKK and Neo-Nazis, and are justly condemned by all moral and ethical people.

You mean these statements?

"Racism is evil. And those who cause violence in its name are criminals and thugs, including the KKK, neo-Nazis, white supremacists, and other hate groups that are repugnant to everything we hold dear as Americans. "

No. I mean statements like this one:
----
From the article:

President Donald Trump on Saturday declined to condemn the violent actions and protests of white supremacists who had converged en masse on Charlottesville, Virginia, to protest the removal of a statue of a Confederate general...

Instead, Trump called out, in what he deemed the strongest possible terms, "this egregious display of hatred, bigotry and violence on many sides — on many sides.” Yet, he never denounced by name the extremist group or called the behavior of the white supremacists unacceptable.

Trump fails to condemn white supremacists in statement on Charlottesville violence
----
We're talking about real terrorist groups: the KKK and the Nazis. Donnie should have been able to see the difference between those people protesting hate and racism, and the people propagating hate and racism.

trump had the opportunity to make a strong statement about our problems with racism and hatred. He could have tried to appear presidential, for a change, and say something about the need to unify the nation. He was incapable of doing that. Instead, he flipped and flopped and seemingly couldn't say much of anything that made sense. He's probably still changing his statements.