anti-discrimination laws are the antithesis of freedom

[K9Buck]

Supposedly free people should be able to discriminate against anyone they like for any reason or no reason. anti-discrimination laws allow the government to dictate to private people. Unfortunately, I doubt that the U.S. will ever eliminate such laws. Now, sing it with me..."And I'm proud to be an American, where at least I know I'm free..."

 

[fncceo]

There's a old legal saying that 'Your right to swing your fist ends at the nose of another man'.

What you believe in private, or espouse in public, is simply your business.

However, when your beliefs turn into actions that actively do harm to others, you've reached the other man's nose.

Equal accommodation is the cornerstone of freedom. In the land of the free, you're not free to do harm to others without consequences.

 

[K9Buck]

Equal accommodation is the cornerstone of freedom.

I disagree. A baker can't decline to bake a cake because of the government. That's not "freedom", that's totalitarianism.

Besides, discrimination laws aren't needed. If a business engaged in blatant, ugly discrimination, word would spread quickly and that business would suffer and probably cease to exist.

How many employees does the fed, state and local governments employ to make sure that baker has to make that cake? As a society, is this really necessary? Worse case scenario is the gay guy goes somewhere else and gets his cake.

So, not only are such laws contrary to the principles of freedom, they're also costly and unnecessary.

 

[fncceo]

Equal accommodation is the cornerstone of freedom.

I disagree. A baker can't decline to bake a cake because of the government. That's not "freedom", that's totalitarianism.

Besides, discrimination laws aren't needed. If a business engaged in blatant, ugly discrimination, word would spread quickly and that business would suffer and probably cease to exist.

How many employees does the fed, state and local governments employ to make sure that baker has to make that cake? As a society, is this really necessary? Worse case scenario is the gay guy goes somewhere else and gets his cake.

So, not only are such laws contrary to the principles of freedom, they're also costly and unnecessary.

It's always amazed me that for all the hoopla over the 'gay cake' issue, not one ever thought of the simple answer.

Simply don't offer custom cakes. Limit your customer choices to a list of set phrases, as long a list as you like, and don't offer alternative. No one can force a company offer a product it doesn't purport to provide. You can't sue Home Depot into selling ladies lingerie (although it would certainly make shopping there more interesting).

There is a reason why Carvel hasn't been forced to make a rainbow Cookiepuss ... it's just isn't on the menu.

However, if you're going to offer any variety of cake on demand, you must be prepared to serve anyone who asks for your wares, regardless of how you feel about them personally.

If I was allowed to only do business with people I liked, I would literally have no customers.

 

[fncceo]

If a business engaged in blatant, ugly discrimination, word would spread quickly and that business would suffer and probably cease to exist.

Depends on who is currently patronizing that business...

Segregated businesses is ugly, unjust, illegal, and worst of all un-American.

 

[K9Buck]

Simply don't offer custom cakes. Limit your customer choices to a list of set phrases, as long a list as you like, and don't offer alternative.

If I was allowed to only do business with people I liked, I would literally have no customers.

Why should a citizen have to jump through a bunch of proverbial hoops to avoid having to make a cake for a gay wedding? Your idea is probably a good one, but free people shouldn't have to go through all of that to exercise their supposed liberty.

You should be free to do business with whomever you like and be legally able to discriminate against anyone for any reason.

The government should NOT be able to discriminate, but private citizens should have that right.

 

[K9Buck]

Segregated businesses is ugly, unjust, illegal, and worst of all un-American.

I think there was a time and a place for such laws. I also believe that we've "evolved" to the point that they are no longer needed.

For that matter, a black person will be given FAR more leeway when making a bigoted statement than would a white person.

And when was the last time the DOJ sued a Muslim bakery for refusing to bake a wedding cake for a same-sex marriage?

 

[fncceo]

Why should a citizen have to jump through a bunch of proverbial hoops to avoid having to make a cake for a gay wedding?

It's not going through a hoop, it's truth in advertising... If I offer my customer's 'any design they want' I can't very well decline a customer for coming up with a design which I find personally offensive.

 

[fncceo]

Segregated businesses is ugly, unjust, illegal, and worst of all un-American.

I think there was a time and a place for such laws. I also believe that we've "evolved" to the point that they are no longer needed.

For that matter, a black person will be given FAR more leeway when making a bigoted statement than would a white person.

And when was the last time the DOJ sued a Muslim bakery for refusing to bake a wedding cake for a same-sex marriage?

Have you tried to order a wedding cake at a Muslim owned and operated bakery? Let me know how that works out for you.

 

[K9Buck]

Segregated businesses is ugly, unjust, illegal, and worst of all un-American.

I think there was a time and a place for such laws. I also believe that we've "evolved" to the point that they are no longer needed.

For that matter, a black person will be given FAR more leeway when making a bigoted statement than would a white person.

And when was the last time the DOJ sued a Muslim bakery for refusing to bake a wedding cake for a same-sex marriage?

Have you tried to order a wedding cake at a Muslim owned and operated bakery? Let me know how that works out for you.

Nope. Did you ever see the video of Steven Crowder going into Muslim bakeries in Dearborn, pretending to be gay and trying to order a wedding cake for his gay marriage? It was pretty funny. Several bakeries declined to make such a cake. As far as I know, the DOJ never complained. You see, Islam trumps LGBT.

 

[fncceo]

And when was the last time the DOJ sued a Muslim bakery

The Department of Justice doesn't 'sue' anyone, lawsuits are civil actions.

 

[K9Buck]

It's not going through a hoop, it's truth in advertising... If I offer my customer's 'any design they want' I can't very well decline a customer for coming up with a design which I find personally offensive.

Well, if a private citizen believes that the baker has broached an agreement, I have no problem with them suing the baker. It's another matter, however, for the federal government to sue a private citizen for simply exercising what should be their right to discriminate against anyone and for any reason.

 

[K9Buck]

And when was the last time the DOJ sued a Muslim bakery

The Department of Justice doesn't 'sue' anyone, lawsuits are civil actions.

They sue all the time.

departmnet of justice sues - Google Search

 

[K9Buck]

 

[fncceo]

Segregated businesses is ugly, unjust, illegal, and worst of all un-American.

I think there was a time and a place for such laws. I also believe that we've "evolved" to the point that they are no longer needed.

For that matter, a black person will be given FAR more leeway when making a bigoted statement than would a white person.

And when was the last time the DOJ sued a Muslim bakery for refusing to bake a wedding cake for a same-sex marriage?

Have you tried to order a wedding cake at a Muslim owned and operated bakery? Let me know how that works out for you.

Nope. Did you ever see the video of Steven Crowder going into Muslim bakeries in Dearborn, pretending to be gay and trying to order a wedding cake for his gay marriage? It was pretty funny. Several bakeries declined to make such a cake. As far as I know, the DOJ never complained. You see, Islam trumps LGBT.

The current anti-baker prosecutions were raised by state anti-discrimination agencies for violations of state anti-discrimination laws. Did Mr. Crowder take his videos to state agencies asking for prosecution? What were their responses. I would find those responses much more entertaining that ambush interviews.

 

[fncceo]

And when was the last time the DOJ sued a Muslim bakery

The Department of Justice doesn't 'sue' anyone, lawsuits are civil actions.

They sue all the time.

departmnet of justice sues - Google Search

The government can't sue a business or an individual for violation of a legal statute. They may only prosecute and prosecution requires proof beyond a reasonable doubt for conviction. Criminal convictions can include fines, jail time, or both.

The government may sue a businesses or individual to recover monetary damages (including punitive damages) for losses the government may claim they incurred by the violation of legal statute. This is often done to recover court costs and only requires a preponderance of evidence to win the case. Civil damages can only be monetary.

 

[IM2]

Supposedly free people should be able to discriminate against anyone they like for any reason or no reason. anti-discrimination laws allow the government to dictate to private people. Unfortunately, I doubt that the U.S. will ever eliminate such laws. Now, sing it with me..."And I'm proud to be an American, where at least I know I'm free..."

Bullshit. Your discrimination reduces the freedom of those you discriminate against.

 

[K9Buck]

The current anti-baker prosecutions were raised by state anti-discrimination agencies for violations of state anti-discrimination laws. Did Mr. Crowder take his videos to state agencies asking for prosecution? What were their responses. I would find those responses much more entertaining that ambush interviews.

Yes, I am aware of all of that. I don't know if Crowder complained to the government. That video was made a few years ago. Somehow, I doubt that any liberal, civil-rights groups have gone to those bakeries to force them to do their bidding, as they do to non-Muslim bakers.

 

[K9Buck]

Bullshit. Your discrimination reduces the freedom of those you discriminate against.

Once upon a time that would have been true. Now, not so much. Practically speaking, there is no shortage of businesses that are happy to serve ALL segments of society.

 

[fncceo]

I doubt that any liberal, civil-rights groups have gone to those bakeries to force them to do their bidding

What's stopping you? This is obviously something you feel strongly enough about. Why don't you take action to enforce the laws?