Blues Man
Diamond Member
- Aug 28, 2016
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Suicide is a choice that every person has the absolute right to make.
So IMO any talk of suicide is a gun discussion is completely irrelevant.
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Another moment of gun self defense...no shots fired, armed robber runs away. A woman uses gun to save herself.....
- Thread starter 2aguy
- Start date
So IMO any talk of suicide is a gun discussion is completely irrelevant.
- Mar 3, 2013
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as stupid as you, claiming the CDC, FBI. and CIA are putting out false information?You have to be a special type of stupid to believe that there are 3,000+ shoot outs a day that go unreported.
Not hardly.
feelz don't beat facts.
Blues Man
Diamond Member
- Aug 28, 2016
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as stupid as you, claiming the CDC, FBI. and CIA are putting out false information?
Not hardly.
feelz don't beat facts.
Not acknowledging the fact that one can use a gun in self defense and not fire a shot is what's stupid.You have to be a special type of stupid to believe that there are 3,000+ shoot outs a day that go unreported.
Usually "use" means using it...Not acknowledging the fact that one can use a gun in self defense and not fire a shot is what's stupid.
As stated, the wall around my condo complex stopped 3B crimes last year.
Blues Man
Diamond Member
- Aug 28, 2016
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Wrong.Usually "use" means using it...
As stated, the wall around my condo complex stopped 3B crimes last year.
Brandishing a gun to stop a crime is using that gun to stop a crime. Try stopping that same crime by brandishing anything else and see what happens.
The fact that there are relatively few deaths that result in a DGU is proof of the incredible restraint gun owners possess.
No. I think the CDC was overly generous in determining a "defensive gun use".as stupid as you, claiming the CDC, FBI. and CIA are putting out false information?
Not hardly.
feelz don't beat facts.
Forbes did an article on the study that is in the OP:
That Time The CDC Asked About Defensive Gun Uses
Why did the CDC fail to publish 1990s research on numbers of defensive gun uses?
www.forbes.com
The criminologist who did the study revised his paper:
A Second Look at a Controversial Study About Defensive Gun Use
Criminologist Gary Kleck revises his paper on the incidence of the use of firearms for self-protection.
reason.com
And couple with that the fact (not feelz) that as of this writing there should have been about 1,000 defensive gun uses so far today yet the radio isn't reporting any recent shootouts....
Blues Man
Diamond Member
- Aug 28, 2016
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Once again we see you using what is only an estimate as a hard truth.No. I think the CDC was overly generous in determining a "defensive gun use".
Forbes did an article on the study that is in the OP:
That Time The CDC Asked About Defensive Gun Uses
Why did the CDC fail to publish 1990s research on numbers of defensive gun uses?
The criminologist who did the study revised his paper:
A Second Look at a Controversial Study About Defensive Gun Use
Criminologist Gary Kleck revises his paper on the incidence of the use of firearms for self-protection.
And couple with that the fact (not feelz) that as of this writing there should have been about 1,000 defensive gun uses so far today yet the radio isn't reporting any recent shootouts....
You're just another dishonest asshole with absolutely no intellectual integrity.
2aguy
Diamond Member
- Jul 19, 2014
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- Thread starter
- #68
Thats great. Except by noon today, there were supposed to be 1,500 such instances. That is all day--every day. According to the OP, there are 1.1 million (this time--the stat has fluctuated) defensive gun uses a year. That is 3,000+ a day...every day. Including Christmas and Easter. You know 2 from your what--40+ years on the planet?
No...not according to me, according to the Centers for Disease Control....that is where that number comes from....the bill clinton Department of Justice also did independent research into this and found 1.5 million defensive gun uses a year...and those researchers were anti-gun fanatics like you...as were the CDC researchers...
Here...look at the research again...
A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....
The name of the group doing the study, the year of the study, the number of defensive gun uses and if police and military defensive gun uses are included.....notice the bill clinton and obama defensive gun use research is highlighted.....
GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense
GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys
Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, no military)
DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, no military)
L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, no military)
Kleck......1994...2.5 million ( no cops, no military)
2021 national firearm survey, Prof. William English, PhD. designed by Deborah Azrael of Harvard T. Chan School of public policy, and Mathew Miller, Northeastern university.......1.67 million defensive uses annually.
CDC...1996-1998... 1.1 million averaged over those years.( no cops, no military)
Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million
--------------------
Bordua...1977...1,414,544
DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, no military)
Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, no military)
Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops,no military)
Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, no military)
DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million ( the bill clinton study)
Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."
(Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.[18])
Paper: "Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment." By David McDowall and others. Journal of Quantitative Criminology, March 2000. Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment - Springer
-------------------------------------------
Ohio...1982...771,043
Gallup...1991...777,152
Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, no military)
Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..
2021 national firearms survey..
The survey was designed by Deborah Azrael of the Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health, and Matthew Miller of Northeastern University,
----
The survey further finds that approximately a third of gun owners (31.1%) have used a firearm to defend themselves or their property, often on more than one occasion, and it estimates that guns are used defensively by firearms owners in approximately 1.67 million incidents per year. Handguns are the most common firearm employed for self-defense (used in 65.9% of defensive incidents), and in most defensive incidents (81.9%) no shot was fired. Approximately a quarter (25.2%) of defensive incidents occurred within the gun owner's home, and approximately half (53.9%) occurred outside their home, but on their property. About one out of ten (9.1%) defensive gun uses occurred in public, and about one out of twenty (4.8%) occurred at work.
2021 National Firearms Survey
2aguy
Diamond Member
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- #69
No. I think the CDC was overly generous in determining a "defensive gun use".
Forbes did an article on the study that is in the OP:
That Time The CDC Asked About Defensive Gun Uses
Why did the CDC fail to publish 1990s research on numbers of defensive gun uses?
The criminologist who did the study revised his paper:
A Second Look at a Controversial Study About Defensive Gun Use
Criminologist Gary Kleck revises his paper on the incidence of the use of firearms for self-protection.
And couple with that the fact (not feelz) that as of this writing there should have been about 1,000 defensive gun uses so far today yet the radio isn't reporting any recent shootouts....
Kleck stated that the CDC didn't continue the research.....because government agencies always stop research when they don't like what they are finding......and with the data set they had, the number was 1.1 million times a year...imagine if they had completed the research....
2aguy
Diamond Member
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- #70
No. I think the CDC was overly generous in determining a "defensive gun use".
Forbes did an article on the study that is in the OP:
That Time The CDC Asked About Defensive Gun Uses
Why did the CDC fail to publish 1990s research on numbers of defensive gun uses?
The criminologist who did the study revised his paper:
A Second Look at a Controversial Study About Defensive Gun Use
Criminologist Gary Kleck revises his paper on the incidence of the use of firearms for self-protection.
And couple with that the fact (not feelz) that as of this writing there should have been about 1,000 defensive gun uses so far today yet the radio isn't reporting any recent shootouts....
From your very own link....obama and his 2013 order to the CDC to look at all available gun research and what they found...
In particular, a 2013 study ordered by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) and conducted by The National Academies’ Institute of Medicine and National Research Council reported that, “Defensive use of guns by crime victims is a common occurrence”:
Subsequently, I learned of a recent paper by Florida State University professor Gary Kleck, “What Do CDC’s Surveys Say About the Frequency of Defensive Gun Uses?“Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million, in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008.
2aguy
Diamond Member
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- #71
No. I think the CDC was overly generous in determining a "defensive gun use".
Forbes did an article on the study that is in the OP:
That Time The CDC Asked About Defensive Gun Uses
Why did the CDC fail to publish 1990s research on numbers of defensive gun uses?
The criminologist who did the study revised his paper:
A Second Look at a Controversial Study About Defensive Gun Use
Criminologist Gary Kleck revises his paper on the incidence of the use of firearms for self-protection.
And couple with that the fact (not feelz) that as of this writing there should have been about 1,000 defensive gun uses so far today yet the radio isn't reporting any recent shootouts....
See...the CDC began to do the research......and looked at just 15 states.....and found 1.1 million defensive gun uses...when the numbers started coming back.....which backed up Kleck's work....the CDC stopped the research...
When has the CDC ever stopped doing research? Especially on an issue where they want to attack the issue?
Kleck looked at some previously unpublished results from the CDC surveys conducted in the 1990s and concluded:
Subsequently, Kleck removed this version of the paper, although a copy of the original can be found here. As reported by Reason editor Brian Doherty:In 1996, 1997, and 1998, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) conducted large-scale surveys asking about defensive gun use (DGU) in four to six states. Analysis of the raw data allows the estimation of the prevalence of DGU for those areas. Estimates based on CDC’s surveys confirm estimates for the same sets of states based on data from the 1993 National Self-Defense Survey (Kleck and Gertz 1995). Extrapolated to the U.S. as a whole CDC’s survey data imply that defensive uses of guns by crime victims are far more common than offensive uses by criminals. CDC has never reported these results.
You will note the original link doesn’t work right now. It was pointed out to me by Robert VerBruggen of National Review that Kleck treats the CDC’s surveys discussed in this paper as if they were national in scope, as Kleck’s original survey was, but they apparently were not. From VerBruggen’s own looks at CDC’s raw data, it seems that over the course of the three years, the following 15 states were surveyed: Alaska, Colorado, Hawaii, Kentucky, Louisiana, Maryland, Mississippi, Montana, Ohio, New Hampshire, New Jersey, New York, North Dakota, Pennsylvania, and West Virginia. (Those states, from 2000 census data, contained around 27 percent of the U.S. population.) Informed of this, Kleck says he will recalculate the degree to which CDC’s survey work indeed matches or corroborates his, and we will publish a discussion of those fresh results when they come in. But for now Kleck has pulled the original paper from the web pending his rethinking the data and his conclusions.
- Mar 3, 2013
- 81,754
- 43,019
- 2,605
Corny was on a gameshow one...
$10,000 Pyramid.
$10,000 Pyramid.
This is approximately 1.2M people
If you want to believe that everyone in the picture above had a shootout last year and nobody reported it...you're really dumb beyond belief.
If you want to believe that everyone in the picture above had a shootout last year and nobody reported it...you're really dumb beyond belief.
- Mar 3, 2013
- 81,754
- 43,019
- 2,605
This is approximately 1.2M people
View attachment 644399
If you want to believe that everyone in the picture above had a shootout last year and nobody reported it...you're really dumb beyond belief.
as dumb as you believing the CDC, CIA, and FBI are wrong?
again, not hardly.
2aguy
Diamond Member
- Jul 19, 2014
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- Thread starter
- #75
This is approximately 1.2M people
View attachment 644399
If you want to believe that everyone in the picture above had a shootout last year and nobody reported it...you're really dumb beyond belief.
I know you need to lie......when you use "shootout," in your dumb posts....
Self defense, as shown in this very thread, doesn't mean even shots are fired....in the vast majority, the moron criminal sees the victim has a gun and runs away...just like in this thread....since no one was harmed, the law abiding gun owner then goes on their way........
There are about 235 really stupid criminals each year, the number of criminals actually killed in gun self defense.....where the idiot criminal, who sees the victim has a gun, and decides to continue the criminal assault.....and gets killed.
Again, the actual research, done by actual research professionals, using actual research methods.....
A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....
The name of the group doing the study, the year of the study, the number of defensive gun uses and if police and military defensive gun uses are included.....notice the bill clinton and obama defensive gun use research is highlighted.....
GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense
GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys
Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, no military)
DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, no military)
L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, no military)
Kleck......1994...2.5 million ( no cops, no military)
2021 national firearm survey, Prof. William English, PhD. designed by Deborah Azrael of Harvard T. Chan School of public policy, and Mathew Miller, Northeastern university.......1.67 million defensive uses annually.
CDC...1996-1998... 1.1 million averaged over those years.( no cops, no military)
Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million
--------------------
Bordua...1977...1,414,544
DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, no military)
Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, no military)
Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops,no military)
Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, no military)
DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million ( the bill clinton study)
Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."
(Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.[18])
Paper: "Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment." By David McDowall and others. Journal of Quantitative Criminology, March 2000. Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment - Springer
-------------------------------------------
Ohio...1982...771,043
Gallup...1991...777,152
Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, no military)
Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..
2021 national firearms survey..
The survey was designed by Deborah Azrael of the Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health, and Matthew Miller of Northeastern University,
----
The survey further finds that approximately a third of gun owners (31.1%) have used a firearm to defend themselves or their property, often on more than one occasion, and it estimates that guns are used defensively by firearms owners in approximately 1.67 million incidents per year. Handguns are the most common firearm employed for self-defense (used in 65.9% of defensive incidents), and in most defensive incidents (81.9%) no shot was fired. Approximately a quarter (25.2%) of defensive incidents occurred within the gun owner's home, and approximately half (53.9%) occurred outside their home, but on their property. About one out of ten (9.1%) defensive gun uses occurred in public, and about one out of twenty (4.8%) occurred at work.
2021 National Firearms Survey
And you are dumb beyond belief to keep repeating "shootout" when no one else is saying it.This is approximately 1.2M people
View attachment 644399
If you want to believe that everyone in the picture above had a shootout last year and nobody reported it...you're really dumb beyond belief.
But he has feelz, and to the liberal, feelz top everything else.as dumb as you believing the CDC, CIA, and FBI are wrong?
again, not hardly.
Bootney Lee Farnsworth
Diamond Member
so, walls work?The fence outside of my condo stopped 3 billion robberies last year. It never fired a shot either.
AZrailwhale
Diamond Member
She’s not dumb. She’s building a straw man to counter a statement that no one is making. She’s simply dishonest.And you are dumb beyond belief to keep repeating "shootout" when no one else is saying it.
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