Another interesting quote to discuss

[Avatar4321]

For my own part, I am not so well satisfied of the goodness of this thing. I am for doing good to the poor, but I differ in opinion of the means. -- I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it. In my youth I travelled much, and I observed in different countries, that the more public provisions were made for the poor, the less they provided for themselves, and of course became poorer. And, on the contrary, the less was done for them, the more they did for themselves, and became richer. There is no country in the world where so many provisions are established for them; so many hospitals to receive them when they are sick or lame, founded and maintained by voluntary charities; so many alms-houses for the aged of both sexes, together with a solemn general law made by the rich to subject their estates to a heavy tax for the support of the poor. Under all these obligations, are our poor modest, humble, and thankful; and do they use their best endeavours to maintain themselves, and lighten our shoulders of this burthen? -- On the contrary, I affirm that there is no country in the world in which the poor are more idle, dissolute, drunken, and insolent. The day you passed that act, you took away from before their eyes the greatest of all inducements to industry, frugality, and sobriety, by giving them a dependance on somewhat else than a careful accumulation during youth and health, for support in age or sickness. In short, you offered a premium for the encouragement of idleness, and you should not now wonder that it has had its effect in the increase of poverty. Repeal that law, and you will soon see a change in their manners. St. Monday, and St. Tuesday, will cease to be holidays. SIX days shalt thou labour, though one of the old commandments long treated as out of date, will again be looked upon as a respectable precept; industry will increase, and with it plenty among the lower people; their circumstances will mend, and more will be done for their happiness by inuring them to provide for themselves, than could be done by dividing all your estates among them.

"On the Price of Corn and Management of the Poor" (29 November 1766)

What do you think of this? I think there is great wisdom here.

 

[PoliticalChic]

For my own part, I am not so well satisfied of the goodness of this thing. I am for doing good to the poor, but I differ in opinion of the means. -- I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it. In my youth I travelled much, and I observed in different countries, that the more public provisions were made for the poor, the less they provided for themselves, and of course became poorer. And, on the contrary, the less was done for them, the more they did for themselves, and became richer. There is no country in the world where so many provisions are established for them; so many hospitals to receive them when they are sick or lame, founded and maintained by voluntary charities; so many alms-houses for the aged of both sexes, together with a solemn general law made by the rich to subject their estates to a heavy tax for the support of the poor. Under all these obligations, are our poor modest, humble, and thankful; and do they use their best endeavours to maintain themselves, and lighten our shoulders of this burthen? -- On the contrary, I affirm that there is no country in the world in which the poor are more idle, dissolute, drunken, and insolent. The day you passed that act, you took away from before their eyes the greatest of all inducements to industry, frugality, and sobriety, by giving them a dependance on somewhat else than a careful accumulation during youth and health, for support in age or sickness. In short, you offered a premium for the encouragement of idleness, and you should not now wonder that it has had its effect in the increase of poverty. Repeal that law, and you will soon see a change in their manners. St. Monday, and St. Tuesday, will cease to be holidays. SIX days shalt thou labour, though one of the old commandments long treated as out of date, will again be looked upon as a respectable precept; industry will increase, and with it plenty among the lower people; their circumstances will mend, and more will be done for their happiness by inuring them to provide for themselves, than could be done by dividing all your estates among them.

"On the Price of Corn and Management of the Poor" (29 November 1766)

What do you think of this? I think there is great wisdom here.

Good one.

Another:
As Thomas Jefferson once wrote regarding the "general Welfare" clause:
To take from one, because it is thought his own industry and that of his father has acquired too much, in order to spare to others who (or whose fathers) have not exercised equal industry and skill, is to violate arbitrarily the first principle of association, "to guarantee to everyone a free exercise of his industry and the fruits acquired by it." U.S. Treasury - Fact Sheet on the History of the U.S. Tax System


And a good discussion, as well, would be how and when we left this path...

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

Oh God... don't let the Collectivists read this...

 

[Avatar4321]

Oh God... don't let the Collectivists read this...

Just did. Sorry

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

I think we all too often get bogged down in how best to help people, and more to the point, what the real problem is. When I see someone who is "poor" let's say, I do not see lack of money as the real problem. Yes, it is the immediate issue, but only a symptom of the real problem which, in my opinion, is their inability to properly sustain themselves. Yes, we can give them $10 and yes they will eat.. today. But, the problem has not been solved. I guess it gets back to basics... give a man a fish, feed him for the day. Teach a man to fish, feed him for life.

Just my take on things...

 

[Rozman]

As long as that check comes in the mail like clockwork what's the point of going out and looking for work. I remember back in the day hearing a family member or two discussing the fact they needed to go out at least once a week and apply for work somewhere and show some kind of proof that they did.They did this or the benefit stopped.I know times are different and there's only one job available for 100 million people or so the Dems will have you believe.Do people have to go to a training center at least to learn another skill,are people on their own going to libraries to maybe learn or at least get familiar with other employment opportunities.

I saw a story on TV the other day about a few people who started a business working out of a van on school grounds.The students being banned from bringing their cell phones now smart phones into school handed over their phones before class to these guys who charged them a $1.00 a phone for the day to store them until class was over.They must have pulled in $100.00 a day at least maybe more for a little labor and some ingenuity.

So there are opportunities out there people just need some motivation,encouragement and some direction to get going.I just don't think handing over a check week after week is the only answer.

 

[rikules]

For my own part, I am not so well satisfied of the goodness of this thing. I am for doing good to the poor, but I differ in opinion of the means. -- I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it. In my youth I travelled much, and I observed in different countries, that the more public provisions were made for the poor, the less they provided for themselves, and of course became poorer. And, on the contrary, the less was done for them, the more they did for themselves, and became richer. There is no country in the world where so many provisions are established for them; so many hospitals to receive them when they are sick or lame, founded and maintained by voluntary charities; so many alms-houses for the aged of both sexes, together with a solemn general law made by the rich to subject their estates to a heavy tax for the support of the poor. Under all these obligations, are our poor modest, humble, and thankful; and do they use their best endeavours to maintain themselves, and lighten our shoulders of this burthen? -- On the contrary, I affirm that there is no country in the world in which the poor are more idle, dissolute, drunken, and insolent. The day you passed that act, you took away from before their eyes the greatest of all inducements to industry, frugality, and sobriety, by giving them a dependance on somewhat else than a careful accumulation during youth and health, for support in age or sickness. In short, you offered a premium for the encouragement of idleness, and you should not now wonder that it has had its effect in the increase of poverty. Repeal that law, and you will soon see a change in their manners. St. Monday, and St. Tuesday, will cease to be holidays. SIX days shalt thou labour, though one of the old commandments long treated as out of date, will again be looked upon as a respectable precept; industry will increase, and with it plenty among the lower people; their circumstances will mend, and more will be done for their happiness by inuring them to provide for themselves, than could be done by dividing all your estates among them.

"On the Price of Corn and Management of the Poor" (29 November 1766)

What do you think of this? I think there is great wisdom here.

when 5% of the population own all the land
and MOST of the businesses
and they decide to eliminate jobs (in great part thanks to automation, computers and robotics)
so that they can keep MORE and MORE of the $ for themselves

just exactly how are "the poor" to work and provide for themselves?

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

Sorry common sense has died .

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

As long as that check comes in the mail like clockwork what's the point of going out and looking for work. I remember back in the day hearing a family member or two discussing the fact they needed to go out at least once a week and apply for work somewhere and show some kind of proof that they did.They did this or the benefit stopped.I know times are different and there's only one job available for 100 million people or so the Dems will have you believe.Do people have to go to a training center at least to learn another skill,are people on their own going to libraries to maybe learn or at least get familiar with other employment opportunities.

I saw a story on TV the other day about a few people who started a business working out of a van on school grounds.The students being banned from bringing their cell phones now smart phones into school handed over their phones before class to these guys who charged them a $1.00 a phone for the day to store them until class was over.They must have pulled in $100.00 a day at least maybe more for a little labor and some ingenuity.

So there are opportunities out there people just need some motivation,encouragement and some direction to get going.I just don't think handing over a check week after week is the only answer.

Of course... but as you noted, too many have been lulled into thinking otherwise. Read what is posted on this board by many. It is all doom and gloom. Why bother? Why try? The evil rich have stolen everything. We just need to take it all back from them and all will be good.

It's very depressing. I can only hope that it is attributable to youth and naiveté. Unfortunately, I think some of these people are not kids.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

For my own part, I am not so well satisfied of the goodness of this thing. I am for doing good to the poor, but I differ in opinion of the means. -- I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it. In my youth I travelled much, and I observed in different countries, that the more public provisions were made for the poor, the less they provided for themselves, and of course became poorer. And, on the contrary, the less was done for them, the more they did for themselves, and became richer. There is no country in the world where so many provisions are established for them; so many hospitals to receive them when they are sick or lame, founded and maintained by voluntary charities; so many alms-houses for the aged of both sexes, together with a solemn general law made by the rich to subject their estates to a heavy tax for the support of the poor. Under all these obligations, are our poor modest, humble, and thankful; and do they use their best endeavours to maintain themselves, and lighten our shoulders of this burthen? -- On the contrary, I affirm that there is no country in the world in which the poor are more idle, dissolute, drunken, and insolent. The day you passed that act, you took away from before their eyes the greatest of all inducements to industry, frugality, and sobriety, by giving them a dependance on somewhat else than a careful accumulation during youth and health, for support in age or sickness. In short, you offered a premium for the encouragement of idleness, and you should not now wonder that it has had its effect in the increase of poverty. Repeal that law, and you will soon see a change in their manners. St. Monday, and St. Tuesday, will cease to be holidays. SIX days shalt thou labour, though one of the old commandments long treated as out of date, will again be looked upon as a respectable precept; industry will increase, and with it plenty among the lower people; their circumstances will mend, and more will be done for their happiness by inuring them to provide for themselves, than could be done by dividing all your estates among them.

"On the Price of Corn and Management of the Poor" (29 November 1766)

What do you think of this? I think there is great wisdom here.

when 5% of the population own all the land
and MOST of the businesses
and they decide to eliminate jobs (in great part thanks to automation, computers and robotics)
so that they can keep MORE and MORE of the $ for themselves

just exactly how are "the poor" to work and provide for themselves?

See? Speak of the victim and he shows up right on queue. Timing is everything I guess.

 

[LordBrownTrout]

Be accountable and responsible in your life. Work hard and smart and you'll appreciate the fruits of your labors. Don't work, live a bitter life, and you'll never appreciate anything. One other thing, life is too short to blame everyone else on your own misfortunes.

 

[editec]

For my own part, I am not so well satisfied of the goodness of this thing. I am for doing good to the poor, but I differ in opinion of the means. -- I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it. In my youth I travelled much, and I observed in different countries, that the more public provisions were made for the poor, the less they provided for themselves, and of course became poorer. And, on the contrary, the less was done for them, the more they did for themselves, and became richer. There is no country in the world where so many provisions are established for them; so many hospitals to receive them when they are sick or lame, founded and maintained by voluntary charities; so many alms-houses for the aged of both sexes, together with a solemn general law made by the rich to subject their estates to a heavy tax for the support of the poor. Under all these obligations, are our poor modest, humble, and thankful; and do they use their best endeavours to maintain themselves, and lighten our shoulders of this burthen? -- On the contrary, I affirm that there is no country in the world in which the poor are more idle, dissolute, drunken, and insolent. The day you passed that act, you took away from before their eyes the greatest of all inducements to industry, frugality, and sobriety, by giving them a dependance on somewhat else than a careful accumulation during youth and health, for support in age or sickness. In short, you offered a premium for the encouragement of idleness, and you should not now wonder that it has had its effect in the increase of poverty. Repeal that law, and you will soon see a change in their manners. St. Monday, and St. Tuesday, will cease to be holidays. SIX days shalt thou labour, though one of the old commandments long treated as out of date, will again be looked upon as a respectable precept; industry will increase, and with it plenty among the lower people; their circumstances will mend, and more will be done for their happiness by inuring them to provide for themselves, than could be done by dividing all your estates among them.

"On the Price of Corn and Management of the Poor" (29 November 1766)

What do you think of this? I think there is great wisdom here.

I think there's an element of truth in it.

OTOH, I also think that this is a very fine rationalization for pretending that selfishness is a virtue.

One must come at every situation and evaluaate it on its own merits to know if helping a poor person is a good idea.

Generally speaking, with the world as it is right now, telling the unshod people to pull themseves by their bootstraps is nothing more than an cruel excuse for blaming the victims of a system that is designed to keep them poor.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

when 5% of the population own all the land
and MOST of the businesses
and they decide to eliminate jobs (in great part thanks to automation, computers and robotics)
so that they can keep MORE and MORE of the $ for themselves

just exactly how are "the poor" to work and provide for themselves?

Curl up in a ball and die.

 

[PoliticalChic]

I think we all too often get bogged down in how best to help people, and more to the point, what the real problem is. When I see someone who is "poor" let's say, I do not see lack of money as the real problem. Yes, it is the immediate issue, but only a symptom of the real problem which, in my opinion, is their inability to properly sustain themselves. Yes, we can give them $10 and yes they will eat.. today. But, the problem has not been solved. I guess it gets back to basics... give a man a fish, feed him for the day. Teach a man to fish, feed him for life.

Just my take on things...

"In speaking with Fox News commentator and author Juan Williams, he noted that there is a simple four step "magic formula" young people can follow to get out of poverty: 1. Finish high school and preferably college. 2. Take a job and hold it. 3. Marry after finishing school and while you have a job. 4. Delay marriage and having children until after one's twenty-first birthday. Williams says that any man or woman who follows this path of personal responsibility can cut their chances of being poor by two-thirds." -- Angela McGlowan, "Bamboozled," P.15-16

 

[Avatar4321]

when 5% of the population own all the land
and MOST of the businesses
and they decide to eliminate jobs (in great part thanks to automation, computers and robotics)
so that they can keep MORE and MORE of the $ for themselves

just exactly how are "the poor" to work and provide for themselves?

by working anyway. By educating themselves. By learning how business works and creating their own job through their own ingenuity and industry.

You act like people need to be given a job to work. this is untrue. People need to work to be given jobs.

 

[Two Thumbs]

I poor, money wise, and I thank anyone that helps, when I actually need and ask.
I usually ask the Salvation Army, they are a bunch of great people that are glad to help and ask for nothing in return

Welfare.

Welfare is not a helping hand, it is not a hand up, nor is it a hand out.

It's chains, chains that are sunk deep into the soul of the people on it and anchored into the concrete that holds up housing tenaments. Wherever you find groups of people on welfare you never find Hope. Not actual hope. "Hope our check comes in on time" is not hope.

So I never take welfare, b/c I don't want to loose my hope.

like

I Hope

My kids do well in school. All 5 are honor students, even the one with Asbergers.
I make the rent. It's a crappy apartment, but it's out crappy apartment.
We get enough back on taxes. Need to replace our crappy van, with another less crappy van.
My kids go to college. We tell them; "Have plans on going to college, b/c if you don't, the day after your 18th birthday, we are having a moving out party for you." My eldest, at 15, is lining up her HS classes to best reflect what she will take in college.
Hope they all get scholorships!! "Cuz those loans are gonna suck!"

excuse me, I'll get off my soapbox now.

 

[PoliticalChic]

For my own part, I am not so well satisfied of the goodness of this thing. I am for doing good to the poor, but I differ in opinion of the means. -- I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it. In my youth I travelled much, and I observed in different countries, that the more public provisions were made for the poor, the less they provided for themselves, and of course became poorer. And, on the contrary, the less was done for them, the more they did for themselves, and became richer. There is no country in the world where so many provisions are established for them; so many hospitals to receive them when they are sick or lame, founded and maintained by voluntary charities; so many alms-houses for the aged of both sexes, together with a solemn general law made by the rich to subject their estates to a heavy tax for the support of the poor. Under all these obligations, are our poor modest, humble, and thankful; and do they use their best endeavours to maintain themselves, and lighten our shoulders of this burthen? -- On the contrary, I affirm that there is no country in the world in which the poor are more idle, dissolute, drunken, and insolent. The day you passed that act, you took away from before their eyes the greatest of all inducements to industry, frugality, and sobriety, by giving them a dependance on somewhat else than a careful accumulation during youth and health, for support in age or sickness. In short, you offered a premium for the encouragement of idleness, and you should not now wonder that it has had its effect in the increase of poverty. Repeal that law, and you will soon see a change in their manners. St. Monday, and St. Tuesday, will cease to be holidays. SIX days shalt thou labour, though one of the old commandments long treated as out of date, will again be looked upon as a respectable precept; industry will increase, and with it plenty among the lower people; their circumstances will mend, and more will be done for their happiness by inuring them to provide for themselves, than could be done by dividing all your estates among them.

"On the Price of Corn and Management of the Poor" (29 November 1766)

What do you think of this? I think there is great wisdom here.

when 5% of the population own all the land
and MOST of the businesses
and they decide to eliminate jobs (in great part thanks to automation, computers and robotics)
so that they can keep MORE and MORE of the $ for themselves

just exactly how are "the poor" to work and provide for themselves?

1. "The liberal line is that poverty is caused by a vicious brew of "institutional" racism -- conservative policies promoted by racist Republicans -- combined with high incarceration rates of black males. In the fashion typical of bamboozlers, these liberals have it exactly backwards. Conservative policy prescriptions aren't the cause of underachievement for minorities and the poor, they're the cure. And furthermore, Republicans advocate policies that recognize the innate value of all humans, as opposed to the liberal policies that demean the poor and disadvantaged by encouraging victimhood." -- P.8
2. "The exploitation agenda advocated by liberals is modeled after the dependency-inducing design of the drug dealer's business model: "We'll supply the first hit for free, and after that, you'll need us forever in order to survive." In order for the liberal scheme to succeed, all attempts at self-empowerment or individual initiative are to be met with fierce resistance and social sanction." -- P.11
3. "The bamboozlers' mantra became: "We liberals are here to help you. Don't let those evil conservatives judge you. You're the victim! You shouldn't have to work. Your standard of living isn't your responsibility. It's ours. You don't need to marry your baby's daddy. Uncle Sam is your baby's daddy, and will be as long as you keep voting for us." -- P.13
Angela McGlowan, "Bamboozled."

 

[Avatar4321]

Turning people into victims for to exert power over them is just evil.