CDZ Another conversation about Universal Income

Discussion in 'Clean Debate Zone' started by Mac1958, Nov 6, 2017.

  1. JimBowie1958
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    JimBowie1958 Old Fogey

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    People will still work because it is part of human nature to want to build/achieve/gain something and not be a lump on a log.
     
  2. WinterBorn
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    WinterBorn Gold Member

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    I agree. But the nature of work will change.
     
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  3. gipper
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    gipper Libertarian/Anarchist

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    Yes...abolish the state. Government run by the people, not the elites, and entirely voluntary is a structure that might work.
     
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  4. JimBowie1958
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    JimBowie1958 Old Fogey

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    It will be a technological Utopia methinks, but we have to traverse some dangerous times to get there safely.
     
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  5. WinterBorn
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    WinterBorn Gold Member

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    Indeed we do. And those who currently hold power will resist it in every way they can.
     
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  6. BlackSand
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    BlackSand Nobody Supporting Member

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    Sometimes the bigger problem is attempting to predict the future.
    As an example ... Someone could have been all bent out of shape about phone service, line capabilities and availability to the masses in 1996.

    There is no way they would have known that the cell phone we have today was just around the corner and in almost everyone's hands.

    .
     
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  7. Mac1958
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    Mac1958 Diamond Member

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    That's a fair point and that certainly could be what happens. It may be that we evolve and adapt as conditions and demands change.

    I guess my kneejerk reaction is that, for the most part, cell phones are not seeped in politics. In other words, if we're able to address this issue in an organic way, by introducing solutions incrementally and over time, wonderful. But if we wait until a crisis point, at which time we need significant legislative action and governmental intrusion, holy crap, I just doubt that we have the capacity to act pragmatically and cooperatively.
    .
     
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  8. Tehon
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    Tehon Gold Member

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    We agree then.........with Karl Marx. He has been wrongly associated with the idea of state ownership of the means of production and a strong state. Like us, his interest was in suppressing the state. The state arose out of our social form of production. It was built to protect private capital. If we change the form of production the state will necessarily change along with it.

    "Freedom consists in converting the state from an organ superimposed upon society into one completely subordinate to it"
    Critique of the Gotha Programme-- IV
     
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  9. BlackSand
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    BlackSand Nobody Supporting Member

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    But ... The Congressional Budget Office is steeped in politics and attempts to predict the future 20 years down the line all the time.
    There is nothing pragmatic about that ... That is simply self serving hogwash ... They have no idea what will happen next year.

    We could have another market crash ... Aliens could invade ... A nuclear reactor meltdown ... A terrorist attack on a great scale.
    The numbers they give are completely false ... Misleading and unconnected to anything certain ... Yet they base legislation on them.

    .
     
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  10. gipper
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    gipper Libertarian/Anarchist

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    The problem is always the state. The state needs to be abolished, but sadly too many think we NEED the state. They have been brainwashed in the government schools to abide by and admire the state. They can't wrap their heads around a stateless society.
     
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