"And no religion, too"

[Intense]

[You are the one claiming that Christ never existed. To claim that you had a personal relationship with one who you now claim never existed is a contradiction in your logic. To make your statement true, the relationship had to be imaginary, either that or your current state. Make up your mind and go for it.

The experience and the relationship was real, but it was directed at an imaginary figure. It was childlike, in the same way that small children have relationships with imaginary friends. Are those relationships unreal because the friend exists only in the child's mind? Who are you to say what experiences are real?

I have similar experiences these days without the focus on Christ.

You are of course missing the point. You may have real feelings with your imaginary friends. Of course that is your business and of no interest to me. My interest is your obsession with proving that God does not exist. I have no problem with you not believing in God, that is your issue. Trashing Religion, goes beyond yourself and effects others.

I could take another tack and ask why you post here, not believing in God, you spend allot of your time on something someone who claimed to be Agnostic or Atheist, you claim to want nothing to do with. At least that is the appearance. We Each have Life experiences, lessons learned along the way, that teach us. Why deny the source? Why the adamant behavior towards those that truly believe? I'm not adamant towards you for not believing. Why isn't it enough for you, yourself to not believe?

 

[Foxfyre]

When you presume to tell me that Jesus Christ does not exist, then you are telling me (and millions of others) that we don't really have a relationship with him. We just think we do.

I think your experiences are real. I just believe that they are occurring with yourself.

Or, in other words, I am not in a real relationship? Which is what I said.

But I am not a child with an imaginary friend that feels real to me. I am fully grown, reasonably cognizant and aware and quite jaded re anything that feels like manipulation. And I am absolutely 100% certain beyond all doubt what I am experiencing is with another very real and separate persona I know as the Christ.

And unless you have psychic abilities that have not heretofore been apparent, you simply cannot logically tell me that my relationship with the Christ is not real.

 

[catzmeow]

And unless you have psychic abilities that have not heretofore been apparent, you simply cannot logically tell me that my relationship with the Christ is not real.

And, unless you have psychic abilities, you cannot logically tell me that my relationship with Christ did not exist, as described by me. Bed made. Enjoy it.

As stated, your personal experiences are evidence of nothing but personal experiences.

 

[Intense]

And unless you have psychic abilities that have not heretofore been apparent, you simply cannot logically tell me that my relationship with the Christ is not real.

And, unless you have psychic abilities, you cannot logically tell me that my relationship with Christ did not exist, as described by me. Bed made. Enjoy it.

As stated, your personal experiences are evidence of nothing but personal experiences.

Explain how you possibly have a relationship with Someone you claim doesn't exist, now or ever, because you thought he existed at the time, other than in fantasy or imagination? Either He does exist to you and you are being stubborn or He never existed and your relationship was imagined not real. How could it possibly be anything else. Foxfire nailed it, I concur. We will pray for you on the matter.

 

[daveman]

[You are the one claiming that Christ never existed. To claim that you had a personal relationship with one who you now claim never existed is a contradiction in your logic. To make your statement true, the relationship had to be imaginary, either that or your current state. Make up your mind and go for it.

The experience and the relationship was real, but it was directed at an imaginary figure. It was childlike, in the same way that small children have relationships with imaginary friends. Are those relationships unreal because the friend exists only in the child's mind? Who are you to say what experiences are real?

I have similar experiences these days without the focus on Christ.

Who are you to say what experiences are unreal?

 

[Intense]

[You are the one claiming that Christ never existed. To claim that you had a personal relationship with one who you now claim never existed is a contradiction in your logic. To make your statement true, the relationship had to be imaginary, either that or your current state. Make up your mind and go for it.

The experience and the relationship was real, but it was directed at an imaginary figure. It was childlike, in the same way that small children have relationships with imaginary friends. Are those relationships unreal because the friend exists only in the child's mind? Who are you to say what experiences are real?

I have similar experiences these days without the focus on Christ.

Who are you to say what experiences are unreal?

I have similar experiences these days without the focus on Christ.

If the door was opened here, and you seem to be implying it was, why not give Christ the credit,that was his point, opening the door or gateway, right? My gateway is real, seems real to me, Thank You Jesus. Is your gateway real or imagined? If you just imagined Jesus, how can you be sure? I'm just busting your chops, or at least would be, if you had chops, just consider the thought, when you get past being pissed off at me.

 

[catzmeow]

If the door was opened here, and you seem to be implying it was, why not give Christ the credit,that was his point, opening the door or gateway, right? My gateway is real, seems real to me, Thank You Jesus. Is your gateway real or imagined? If you just imagined Jesus, how can you be sure? I'm just busting your chops, or at least would be, if you had chops, just consider the thought, when you get past being pissed off at me.

I believe the doorway exists, with or without Christ. I'm not pissed at you, though. I'm just providing you with an alternative perspective/experience to think about.

When a Hindu or Buddhist experiences the divine via meditation or personal worship, is their experience less real than yours?

 

[Sky Dancer]

We can certainly verify impermanence. We can verify birth and death.

Body, Yes. Spirit? Soul?

We cannot even find "spirit" or "soul". We certainly cannot verify their existence.

 

[Foxfyre]

And unless you have psychic abilities that have not heretofore been apparent, you simply cannot logically tell me that my relationship with the Christ is not real.

And, unless you have psychic abilities, you cannot logically tell me that my relationship with Christ did not exist, as described by me. Bed made. Enjoy it.

As stated, your personal experiences are evidence of nothing but personal experiences.

I didn't tell you that your relationship with Christ did not exist. You said your relationship with Christ did not exist; i.e. what you experienced was not with the Christ. I have not presumed to question your faith or lack of faith or tell you what to helieve.

I (and others) said that those who have not experienced God/Christ can certainly question the testimony of others, but it is illogical to dismiss something simply because you have not experienced it.

You said you had experienced it and now you don't believe that Christ existed or exists.

I said it was illogical to claim to have had an experience with a person and at the same time insist the person does not/did not exist.

After some back and forth, you then said the experience was real but that Christ was not. And then you presumed to suggest that what I and others experienced is not real either.

Which brought us back to my original thesis that I am certain that I have experienced God/Christ and have a relationship with God/Christ. I believe that other rational and thoughtful people who testify to a relationship with God/Christ are also in an authentic relationship.

Based on what you have posted here, I can accept that you thought you were in a relationship but actually were not. And you came to a point that you realized that.

But it is still illogical to dismiss the testimony of that cloud of witnesses purely based on your not having the same experience that they have had.

 

[koshergrl]

Tsk tsk, you aren't supposed to tell her what is real, she's supposed to tell YOU.

Don't you know anything?

 

[Foxfyre]

Tsk tsk, you aren't supposed to tell her what is real, she's supposed to tell YOU.

Don't you know anything?

Naw, I'll give her a break. She got caught in her own conundrum and I suspect reached that terrible moment in a heated argument in which she realized she was wrong. And, I can allow for how difficult it is to admit you are wrong in that situation.

I hate fighting with anybody over anything and especially dislike unpleasantries involving religion. But sometimes we Christians just have to stand up on our hind legs and stick up for what we believe or we could well lose our most cherished freedoms. I do pray for the grace to not become angry. And I am not.

 

[catzmeow]

After some back and forth, you then said the experience was real but that Christ was not. And then you presumed to suggest that what I and others experienced is not real either.

Which brought us back to my original thesis that I am certain that I have experienced God/Christ and have a relationship with God/Christ. I believe that other rational and thoughtful people who testify to a relationship with God/Christ are also in an authentic relationship.

Based on what you have posted here, I can accept that you thought you were in a relationship but actually were not. And you came to a point that you realized that.But it is still illogical to dismiss the testimony of that cloud of witnesses purely based on your not having the same experience that they have had.

Why do you feel a need to consistently misrepresent my posts and experiences? Is bearing a false witness about other people something that is condoned in your faith?

Is it too much to ask that you behave in an ethical fashion? You have yet to respond to the question I asked, but I will ask it again:

Are the spiritual experiences of hindus, muslims, buddhists and pagans less real than yours?

 

[catzmeow]

Tsk tsk, you aren't supposed to tell her what is real, she's supposed to tell YOU.

Don't you know anything?

Naw, I'll give her a break. She got caught in her own conundrum and I suspect reached that terrible moment in a heated argument in which she realized she was wrong. And, I can allow for how difficult it is to admit you are wrong in that situation.

I hate fighting with anybody over anything and especially dislike unpleasantries involving religion. But sometimes we Christians just have to stand up on our hind legs and stick up for what we believe or we could well lose our most cherished freedoms. I do pray for the grace to not become angry. And I am not.

Yes, you are just a shining example of the love of Jesus. Lying about other posters is a strong testimony to your faith. You just keep showing the world your salt and light. It's very convincing. I bet your invisible friend is really proud of you right now.

 

[Intense]

If the door was opened here, and you seem to be implying it was, why not give Christ the credit,that was his point, opening the door or gateway, right? My gateway is real, seems real to me, Thank You Jesus. Is your gateway real or imagined? If you just imagined Jesus, how can you be sure? I'm just busting your chops, or at least would be, if you had chops, just consider the thought, when you get past being pissed off at me.

I believe the doorway exists, with or without Christ. I'm not pissed at you, though. I'm just providing you with an alternative perspective/experience to think about.

When a Hindu or Buddhist experiences the divine via meditation or personal worship, is their experience less real than yours?

You implied the door was opened for the first time while you believed as a Christian.
We are all related, we are all God's Children. By whatever name one calls Him, by whatever words one uses in Prayer, my concern is Conscience First, that is all. The Avenues God uses to address you is between you and Him. Either one has Faith and Confidence, or they don't. Don't confuse me with Fundamentalism, I view the Brands as training wheels. My Allegiance is to God, not my or anyone Else's perception of what or who God is. I accept the fact that God is not limited by my perception, as I am. As for what is beyond my ability or comprehension, I Trust.

 

[Intense]

Tsk tsk, you aren't supposed to tell her what is real, she's supposed to tell YOU.

Don't you know anything?

Naw, I'll give her a break. She got caught in her own conundrum and I suspect reached that terrible moment in a heated argument in which she realized she was wrong. And, I can allow for how difficult it is to admit you are wrong in that situation.

I hate fighting with anybody over anything and especially dislike unpleasantries involving religion. But sometimes we Christians just have to stand up on our hind legs and stick up for what we believe or we could well lose our most cherished freedoms. I do pray for the grace to not become angry. And I am not.

Yes, you are just a shining example of the love of Jesus. Lying about other posters is a strong testimony to your faith. You just keep showing the world your salt and light. It's very convincing. I bet your invisible friend is really proud of you right now.

Meow. I smell catnip.

 

[catzmeow]

You implied the door was opened for the first time while you believed as a Christian.

Okay. Perhaps you are right.

We are all related, we are all God's Children. By whatever name one calls Him, by whatever words one uses in Prayer, my concern is Conscience First, that is all. The Avenues God uses to address you is between you and Him. Either one has Faith and Confidence, or they don't. Don't confuse me with Fundamentalism, I view the Brands as training wheels. My Allegiance is to God, not my or anyone Else's perception of what or who God is. I accept the fact that God is not limited by my perception, as I am. As for what is beyond my ability or comprehension, I Trust.

On this, we agree.

 

[catzmeow]

Meow. I smell catnip.

Yes, god forbid that Fox should live her expressed values and not misrepresent other posters.

 

[Intense]

Meow. I smell catnip.

Yes, god forbid that Fox should live her expressed values and not misrepresent other posters.

I think you are each representing your own perspectives. Nothing a good sand papering won't fix.

 

[Lokiate]

Am.

Then you fail.

Not really.

You do.

 

[koshergrl]

Foxy isn't dishonest, nor did she misrepresent you. I think she's absolutely right and you got caught in your own conundrum (a good way to put it). I would use the word "conceit" but I'm not as kind as she is.