An Internet "Kill Switch?"

[Foxfyre]

Here's another sticky wicket in the works that is sure to evoke strong emotions from all sides of the ideological spectrum.

Some in Congress and the Administration are wanting to give the President power to pull the plug on certain internet sites in times of national emergency.

I can already hear strong libertarian types advocating massive protests. Leftists will be on their soapboxes trumpeting the virtues of giving more essential powers to the central federal government. Conservatives will be wringing their hands at the predictable unintended consequences when a simple legislative power is reinterpreted for nefarious reasons.

And it is possible they will all be right. And it is possible they would all be taking different directions if it was a Bill Clinton or George W. Bush in the oval office rather than Barack Obama.

What say you?

January 24, 2011 10:12 AM
Renewed Push to Give Obama an Internet "Kill Switch"
by Declan McCullagh

A controversial bill handing President Obama power over privately owned computer systems during a "national cyberemergency," and prohibiting any review by the court system, will return this year.

Internet companies should not be alarmed by the legislation, first introduced last summer by Sens. Joseph Lieberman (I-Conn.) and Susan Collins (R-Maine), a Senate aide said last week. Lieberman, an independent who caucuses with Democrats, is chairman of the Senate Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs Committee.

"We're not trying to mandate any requirements for the entire Internet, the entire Internet backbone," said Brandon Milhorn, Republican staff director and counsel for the committee.

Instead, Milhorn said at a conference in Washington, D.C., the point of the proposal is to assert governmental control only over those "crucial components that form our nation's critical infrastructure."

Portions of the Lieberman-Collins bill, which was not uniformly well-received when it became public in June 2010, became even more restrictive when a Senate committee approved a modified version on December 15. The full Senate did not act on the measure.

The revised version includes new language saying that the federal government's designation of vital Internet or other computer systems "shall not be subject to judicial review." Another addition expanded the definition of critical infrastructure to include "provider of information technology," and a third authorized the submission of "classified" reports on security vulnerabilities.

The idea of creating what some critics have called an Internet "kill switch" that the president could flip in an emergency is not exactly new.

A draft Senate proposal that CNET obtained in August 2009 authorized the White House to "declare a cybersecurity emergency," and another from Sens. Jay Rockefeller (D-W.V.) and Olympia Snowe (R-Maine) would have explicitly given the government the power to "order the disconnection" of certain networks or Web sites. House Democrats have taken a similar approach in their own proposals. . . .
Renewed Push to Give Obama an Internet "Kill Switch" - Tech Talk - CBS News

 

[dilloduck]

Much ado about nothing---if someone has the ability to do it and wants to shut it down they will and we will argue the legality of it for years.

 

[Baruch Menachem]

I can see no legitimate use for this. What kind of national emergency would it be where the government has the need to pull someone's internet access?

 

[Foxfyre]

Much ado about nothing---if someone has the ability to do it and wants to shut it down they will and we will argue the legality of it for years.

I don't think this kind of stuff really is much ado about nothing though D. When we shrug off a minor intrusion into our privacy or our freedoms as not worth making a big deal about, we encourage another tiny intrusion. And then another. And then another. And one day we wake up finding ourselves no longer in control of much of anything.

I have used the following modern parable as an illustration for this:

Dinner at the White House - a parable

Once upon a time, I was invited to the White House for a private dinner with the President. I am a respected businessman, with a factory that produces memory chips for computers and portable electronics. There was some talk that my industry was being scrutinized by the administration, but I paid it no mind. I live in a free country. There's nothing that the government can do to me if I've broken no laws. My wealth was earned honestly, and an invitation to dinner with an American President is an honor.

I checked my coat, was greeted by the Chief of Staff, and joined the President in a yellow dining room. We sat across from each other at a table draped in white linen. The Great Seal was embossed on the china. Uniformed staff served our dinner.

The meal was served, and I was startled when my waiter suddenly reached out, plucked a dinner roll off my plate, and began nibbling it as he walked back to the kitchen.

"Sorry about that," said the President. "Andrew is very hungry."

"I don't appreciate..." I began, but as I looked into the calm brown eyes across from me, I felt immediately guilty and petty. It was just a dinner roll. "Of course," I concluded, and reached for my glass. Before I could, however, another waiter reached forward, took the glass away and swallowed the wine in a single gulp.

"And his brother Eric is very thirsty." said the President.

I didn't say anything. The President is testing my compassion, I thought. I will play along. I don't want to seem unkind.

My plate was whisked away before I had tasted a bite.

"Eric's children are also quite hungry."

With a lurch, I crashed to the floor. My chair had been pulled out from under me. I stood, brushing myself off angrily, and watched as it was carried from the room.

"And their grandmother can't stand for long."

I excused myself, smiling outwardly, but inside feeling like a fool. Obviously I had been invited to the White House to be sport for some game. I reached for my coat, to find that it had been taken. I turned back to the President.

"Their grandfather doesn't like the cold."

I wanted to shout- that was my coat! But again, I looked at the placid smiling face of my host and decided I was being a poor sport. I spread my hands helplessly and chuckled. Then I felt my hip pocket and realized my wallet was gone. I excused myself and walked to a phone on an elegant side table. I learned shortly that my credit cards had been maxed out, my bank accounts emptied, my retirement and equity portfolios had vanished, and my wife had been thrown out of our home. Apparently, the waiters and their families were moving in. The President hadn't moved or spoken as I learned all this, but finally I lowered the phone into its cradle and turned to face him.

"Andrew's whole family has made bad financial decisions. They haven't planned for retirement, and they need a house. They recently defaulted on a subprime mortgage. I told them they could have your home. They need it more than you do."

My hands were shaking. I felt faint. I stumbled back to the table and knelt on the floor. The President cheerfully cut his meat, ate his steak and drank his wine. I lowered my eyes and stared at the small grey circles on the tablecloth that were water drops.

"By the way," He added, "I have just signed an Executive Order nationalizing your factories. I'm firing you as head of your business. I'll be operating the firm now for the benefit of all mankind. There's a whole bunch of Erics and Andrews out there and they can't come to you for jobs groveling like beggars."

I looked up. The President dropped his spoon into the empty ramekin which had been his creme brulee. He drained the last drops of his wine. As the table was cleared, he lit a cigarette and leaned back in his chair. He stared at me. I clung to the edge of the table as if were a ledge and I were a man hanging over an abyss. I thought of the years behind me, of the life I had lived. The life I had earned with a lifetime of work, risk and struggle. Why was I punished? How had I allowed it to be taken? What game had I played and lost? I looked across the table and noticed with some surprise that there was no game board between us.

What had I done wrong?

As if answering the unspoken thought, the President suddenly cocked his head, locked his empty eyes to mine, and bared a million teeth, chuckling wryly as he folded his hands.

"You should have stopped me at the dinner roll," he said.

At the same time I know the government needs to be able to ground planes or stop trains or close highways or take other temporary measures to deal with an immediate national crisis. Would the internet be included in that kind of scenario? Wouldn't it also be necessary to shut down all the public telephones and cell phone services to stop 'dangerous' transmissions?

How can that be worded to prevent arbitrary use of that power for political purposes?

 

[uscitizen]

I can see no legitimate use for this. What kind of national emergency would it be where the government has the need to pull someone's internet access?

Ohh the same kind of thing we did to Iran? Hack into and mess up their uranium enrichment process. The Israli helped too.

 

[dilloduck]

Much ado about nothing---if someone has the ability to do it and wants to shut it down they will and we will argue the legality of it for years.

I don't think this kind of stuff really is much ado about nothing though D. When we shrug off a minor intrusion into our privacy or our freedoms as not worth making a big deal about, we encourage another tiny intrusion. And then another. And then another. And one day we wake up finding ourselves no longer in control of much of anything.

I have used the following modern parable as an illustration for this:

Dinner at the White House - a parable

Once upon a time, I was invited to the White House for a private dinner with the President. I am a respected businessman, with a factory that produces memory chips for computers and portable electronics. There was some talk that my industry was being scrutinized by the administration, but I paid it no mind. I live in a free country. There's nothing that the government can do to me if I've broken no laws. My wealth was earned honestly, and an invitation to dinner with an American President is an honor.

I checked my coat, was greeted by the Chief of Staff, and joined the President in a yellow dining room. We sat across from each other at a table draped in white linen. The Great Seal was embossed on the china. Uniformed staff served our dinner.

The meal was served, and I was startled when my waiter suddenly reached out, plucked a dinner roll off my plate, and began nibbling it as he walked back to the kitchen.

"Sorry about that," said the President. "Andrew is very hungry."

"I don't appreciate..." I began, but as I looked into the calm brown eyes across from me, I felt immediately guilty and petty. It was just a dinner roll. "Of course," I concluded, and reached for my glass. Before I could, however, another waiter reached forward, took the glass away and swallowed the wine in a single gulp.

"And his brother Eric is very thirsty." said the President.

I didn't say anything. The President is testing my compassion, I thought. I will play along. I don't want to seem unkind.

My plate was whisked away before I had tasted a bite.

"Eric's children are also quite hungry."

With a lurch, I crashed to the floor. My chair had been pulled out from under me. I stood, brushing myself off angrily, and watched as it was carried from the room.

"And their grandmother can't stand for long."

I excused myself, smiling outwardly, but inside feeling like a fool. Obviously I had been invited to the White House to be sport for some game. I reached for my coat, to find that it had been taken. I turned back to the President.

"Their grandfather doesn't like the cold."

I wanted to shout- that was my coat! But again, I looked at the placid smiling face of my host and decided I was being a poor sport. I spread my hands helplessly and chuckled. Then I felt my hip pocket and realized my wallet was gone. I excused myself and walked to a phone on an elegant side table. I learned shortly that my credit cards had been maxed out, my bank accounts emptied, my retirement and equity portfolios had vanished, and my wife had been thrown out of our home. Apparently, the waiters and their families were moving in. The President hadn't moved or spoken as I learned all this, but finally I lowered the phone into its cradle and turned to face him.

"Andrew's whole family has made bad financial decisions. They haven't planned for retirement, and they need a house. They recently defaulted on a subprime mortgage. I told them they could have your home. They need it more than you do."

My hands were shaking. I felt faint. I stumbled back to the table and knelt on the floor. The President cheerfully cut his meat, ate his steak and drank his wine. I lowered my eyes and stared at the small grey circles on the tablecloth that were water drops.

"By the way," He added, "I have just signed an Executive Order nationalizing your factories. I'm firing you as head of your business. I'll be operating the firm now for the benefit of all mankind. There's a whole bunch of Erics and Andrews out there and they can't come to you for jobs groveling like beggars."

I looked up. The President dropped his spoon into the empty ramekin which had been his creme brulee. He drained the last drops of his wine. As the table was cleared, he lit a cigarette and leaned back in his chair. He stared at me. I clung to the edge of the table as if were a ledge and I were a man hanging over an abyss. I thought of the years behind me, of the life I had lived. The life I had earned with a lifetime of work, risk and struggle. Why was I punished? How had I allowed it to be taken? What game had I played and lost? I looked across the table and noticed with some surprise that there was no game board between us.

What had I done wrong?

As if answering the unspoken thought, the President suddenly cocked his head, locked his empty eyes to mine, and bared a million teeth, chuckling wryly as he folded his hands.

"You should have stopped me at the dinner roll," he said.

At the same time I know the government needs to be able to ground planes or stop trains or close highways or take other temporary measures to deal with an immediate national crisis. Would the internet be included in that kind of scenario? Wouldn't it also be necessary to shut down all the public telephones and cell phone services to stop 'dangerous' transmissions?

How can that be worded to prevent arbitrary use of that power for political purposes?

It can't be ---see Rahms resident status argument for a great example. Any power that we think we have over our government right now is an illusion. It was taken long ago.

 

[uscitizen]

But the most likely thing would be in the event of another major finiancial meltdown to give the finiancial industry some time to regroup and cover their asses.

 

[kwc57]

I don't know......I'm libertarian and I can understand the possible need. I've been working in financial industry data processing for 31 years now. When I started, there were no PC's, fax machines or internet. I remember the old school way and how the business functions today and it is night and day. In the old days, your paper checks that you wrote were literally sorted on machines and swapped back and forth between banks and the fed. Now it is all image capture and transmitted. In the event that hacker terrorists could actually threaten infrastructure, utilities, banking, etc., there could be a possible need to stop everything just like pulling the airliners out of the sky on 9/11. Possible....but not probable. Of course, having planes smash into skyscrapers wasn't probable either.

 

[Foxfyre]

Much ado about nothing---if someone has the ability to do it and wants to shut it down they will and we will argue the legality of it for years.

I don't think this kind of stuff really is much ado about nothing though D. When we shrug off a minor intrusion into our privacy or our freedoms as not worth making a big deal about, we encourage another tiny intrusion. And then another. And then another. And one day we wake up finding ourselves no longer in control of much of anything.

I have used the following modern parable as an illustration for this:

Dinner at the White House - a parable

Once upon a time, I was invited to the White House for a private dinner with the President. I am a respected businessman, with a factory that produces memory chips for computers and portable electronics. There was some talk that my industry was being scrutinized by the administration, but I paid it no mind. I live in a free country. There's nothing that the government can do to me if I've broken no laws. My wealth was earned honestly, and an invitation to dinner with an American President is an honor.

I checked my coat, was greeted by the Chief of Staff, and joined the President in a yellow dining room. We sat across from each other at a table draped in white linen. The Great Seal was embossed on the china. Uniformed staff served our dinner.

The meal was served, and I was startled when my waiter suddenly reached out, plucked a dinner roll off my plate, and began nibbling it as he walked back to the kitchen.

"Sorry about that," said the President. "Andrew is very hungry."

"I don't appreciate..." I began, but as I looked into the calm brown eyes across from me, I felt immediately guilty and petty. It was just a dinner roll. "Of course," I concluded, and reached for my glass. Before I could, however, another waiter reached forward, took the glass away and swallowed the wine in a single gulp.

"And his brother Eric is very thirsty." said the President.

I didn't say anything. The President is testing my compassion, I thought. I will play along. I don't want to seem unkind.

My plate was whisked away before I had tasted a bite.

"Eric's children are also quite hungry."

With a lurch, I crashed to the floor. My chair had been pulled out from under me. I stood, brushing myself off angrily, and watched as it was carried from the room.

"And their grandmother can't stand for long."

I excused myself, smiling outwardly, but inside feeling like a fool. Obviously I had been invited to the White House to be sport for some game. I reached for my coat, to find that it had been taken. I turned back to the President.

"Their grandfather doesn't like the cold."

I wanted to shout- that was my coat! But again, I looked at the placid smiling face of my host and decided I was being a poor sport. I spread my hands helplessly and chuckled. Then I felt my hip pocket and realized my wallet was gone. I excused myself and walked to a phone on an elegant side table. I learned shortly that my credit cards had been maxed out, my bank accounts emptied, my retirement and equity portfolios had vanished, and my wife had been thrown out of our home. Apparently, the waiters and their families were moving in. The President hadn't moved or spoken as I learned all this, but finally I lowered the phone into its cradle and turned to face him.

"Andrew's whole family has made bad financial decisions. They haven't planned for retirement, and they need a house. They recently defaulted on a subprime mortgage. I told them they could have your home. They need it more than you do."

My hands were shaking. I felt faint. I stumbled back to the table and knelt on the floor. The President cheerfully cut his meat, ate his steak and drank his wine. I lowered my eyes and stared at the small grey circles on the tablecloth that were water drops.

"By the way," He added, "I have just signed an Executive Order nationalizing your factories. I'm firing you as head of your business. I'll be operating the firm now for the benefit of all mankind. There's a whole bunch of Erics and Andrews out there and they can't come to you for jobs groveling like beggars."

I looked up. The President dropped his spoon into the empty ramekin which had been his creme brulee. He drained the last drops of his wine. As the table was cleared, he lit a cigarette and leaned back in his chair. He stared at me. I clung to the edge of the table as if were a ledge and I were a man hanging over an abyss. I thought of the years behind me, of the life I had lived. The life I had earned with a lifetime of work, risk and struggle. Why was I punished? How had I allowed it to be taken? What game had I played and lost? I looked across the table and noticed with some surprise that there was no game board between us.

What had I done wrong?

As if answering the unspoken thought, the President suddenly cocked his head, locked his empty eyes to mine, and bared a million teeth, chuckling wryly as he folded his hands.

"You should have stopped me at the dinner roll," he said.

At the same time I know the government needs to be able to ground planes or stop trains or close highways or take other temporary measures to deal with an immediate national crisis. Would the internet be included in that kind of scenario? Wouldn't it also be necessary to shut down all the public telephones and cell phone services to stop 'dangerous' transmissions?

How can that be worded to prevent arbitrary use of that power for political purposes?

It can't be ---see Rahms resident status argument for a great example. Any power that we think we have over our government right now is an illusion. It was taken long ago.

Well that probably isn't the best example to use with me since I am pretty much the lone voice taking Emmanuel's side in that debate.

 

[LordBrownTrout]

They become more scared of us everyday....especially when we can retrieve information and news instantly now.

 

[dilloduck]

I don't think this kind of stuff really is much ado about nothing though D. When we shrug off a minor intrusion into our privacy or our freedoms as not worth making a big deal about, we encourage another tiny intrusion. And then another. And then another. And one day we wake up finding ourselves no longer in control of much of anything.

I have used the following modern parable as an illustration for this:



At the same time I know the government needs to be able to ground planes or stop trains or close highways or take other temporary measures to deal with an immediate national crisis. Would the internet be included in that kind of scenario? Wouldn't it also be necessary to shut down all the public telephones and cell phone services to stop 'dangerous' transmissions?

How can that be worded to prevent arbitrary use of that power for political purposes?

It can't be ---see Rahms resident status argument for a great example. Any power that we think we have over our government right now is an illusion. It was taken long ago.

Well that probably isn't the best example to use with me since I am pretty much the lone voice taking Emmanuel's side in that debate.

I bet he has lawyers to help you help him.

 

[dilloduck]

They become more scared of us everyday....especially when we can retrieve information and news instantly now.

Which is exactly why they want the power to shut them down.

 

[Foxfyre]

They become more scared of us everyday....especially when we can retrieve information and news instantly now.

And actually that observation does belong in the debate. It speaks to the possibility of a motive to 'manufacture' a national crisis to better shut up any conversations contrary to a political goal.

You can almost hear it happening:

Chief of Staff: George we need to shut everybody up before this next vote. Go find a pay phone somewhere and call in a nuclear terrorist threat.

George: What kind of nuclear threat?

Chief of Staff: Doesn't matter just so it is big, hugely destructive, we don't know for sure where it will be, it involves a fairly large group of terrorists, and it is imminent.

George: Okay.

Chief of Staff: And you know this is classified right George? If you speak of this to anybody we'll be removing your toenails in a most unpleasant manner. . . . .

 

[uscitizen]

They become more scared of us everyday....especially when we can retrieve information and news instantly now.

LOL, yeah if you call what we get news.

 

[shintao]

Here's another sticky wicket in the works that is sure to evoke strong emotions from all sides of the ideological spectrum.

Some in Congress and the Administration are wanting to give the President power to pull the plug on certain internet sites in times of national emergency.

I can already hear strong libertarian types advocating massive protests. Leftists will be on their soapboxes trumpeting the virtues of giving more essential powers to the central federal government. Conservatives will be wringing their hands at the predictable unintended consequences when a simple legislative power is reinterpreted for nefarious reasons.

And it is possible they will all be right. And it is possible they would all be taking different directions if it was a Bill Clinton or George W. Bush in the oval office rather than Barack Obama.

What say you?

January 24, 2011 10:12 AM
Renewed Push to Give Obama an Internet "Kill Switch"
by Declan McCullagh

A controversial bill handing President Obama power over privately owned computer systems during a "national cyberemergency," and prohibiting any review by the court system, will return this year.

Internet companies should not be alarmed by the legislation, first introduced last summer by Sens. Joseph Lieberman (I-Conn.) and Susan Collins (R-Maine), a Senate aide said last week. Lieberman, an independent who caucuses with Democrats, is chairman of the Senate Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs Committee.

"We're not trying to mandate any requirements for the entire Internet, the entire Internet backbone," said Brandon Milhorn, Republican staff director and counsel for the committee.

Instead, Milhorn said at a conference in Washington, D.C., the point of the proposal is to assert governmental control only over those "crucial components that form our nation's critical infrastructure."

Portions of the Lieberman-Collins bill, which was not uniformly well-received when it became public in June 2010, became even more restrictive when a Senate committee approved a modified version on December 15. The full Senate did not act on the measure.

The revised version includes new language saying that the federal government's designation of vital Internet or other computer systems "shall not be subject to judicial review." Another addition expanded the definition of critical infrastructure to include "provider of information technology," and a third authorized the submission of "classified" reports on security vulnerabilities.

The idea of creating what some critics have called an Internet "kill switch" that the president could flip in an emergency is not exactly new.

A draft Senate proposal that CNET obtained in August 2009 authorized the White House to "declare a cybersecurity emergency," and another from Sens. Jay Rockefeller (D-W.V.) and Olympia Snowe (R-Maine) would have explicitly given the government the power to "order the disconnection" of certain networks or Web sites. House Democrats have taken a similar approach in their own proposals. . . .
Renewed Push to Give Obama an Internet "Kill Switch" - Tech Talk - CBS News

I object, even for National Security reasons.

 

[dilloduck]

They become more scared of us everyday....especially when we can retrieve information and news instantly now.

And actually that observation does belong in the debate. It speaks to the possibility of a motive to 'manufacture' a national crisis to better shut up any conversations contrary to a political goal.

You can almost hear it happening:

Chief of Staff: George we need to shut everybody up before this next vote. Go find a pay phone somewhere and call in a nuclear terrorist threat.

George: What kind of nuclear threat?

Chief of Staff: Doesn't matter just so it is big, hugely destructive, we don't know for sure where it will be, it involves a fairly large group of terrorists, and it is imminent.

George: Okay.

Chief of Staff: And you know this is classified right George? If you speak of this to anybody we'll be removing your toenails in a most unpleasant manner. . . . .

Outta be an easy choice then because that's the nature of our politicians. You think making it illegal would stop them ?

 

[uscitizen]

I would say a plan to kill the internet within 1 hour already exists.

 

[LordBrownTrout]

They become more scared of us everyday....especially when we can retrieve information and news instantly now.

LOL, yeah if you call what we get news.

If you're speaking about cable/network news, yeah that's a carnival. Haven't watched that junk in 10 years. It's not difficult to research news on the internet though.

 

[LordBrownTrout]

They become more scared of us everyday....especially when we can retrieve information and news instantly now.

Which is exactly why they want the power to shut them down.

Precisely, just as they are telling us that they are looking out for our best interests.

 

[LordBrownTrout]

They become more scared of us everyday....especially when we can retrieve information and news instantly now.

And actually that observation does belong in the debate. It speaks to the possibility of a motive to 'manufacture' a national crisis to better shut up any conversations contrary to a political goal.

You can almost hear it happening:

Chief of Staff: George we need to shut everybody up before this next vote. Go find a pay phone somewhere and call in a nuclear terrorist threat.

George: What kind of nuclear threat?

Chief of Staff: Doesn't matter just so it is big, hugely destructive, we don't know for sure where it will be, it involves a fairly large group of terrorists, and it is imminent.

George: Okay.

Chief of Staff: And you know this is classified right George? If you speak of this to anybody we'll be removing your toenails in a most unpleasant manner. . . . .

That's true. They could manufacture anything at that point.