An EXCELENT Opinion Piece on Values...

Discussion in 'Religion and Ethics' started by 007, Nov 19, 2004.

  1. 007
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    007 Charter Member Supporting Member

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    [​IMG]

    Note: Bottom of first column reads,

    ...John Kerry and the Mrs. live - along with loveable Ted Kennedy, who's...


    and the next: ... Redefine values? Where to begin? Why not start by re-creating the place...

    Too long to fit it all in scanner. So sue me... :funnyface
     
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  2. musicman
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    musicman Senior Member

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    Great post, PR! I think this lady makes a point that we would all do well to remember:

    The "elites" truly despise us.
     
  3. 007
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    007 Charter Member Supporting Member

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    And doesn't it make you wonder WHY?

    I think it's because most folks prefer to live by some semblence of rules and decency. But that's just not "progressive" enough for good 'ole hollywierd. They want to reinvent everything, and ta' hell with what we think. We're just a bunch of stupid old hicks to them. We're not filthy rich and liberal.

    Well what these asswipes fail to realize is, "they" are the minority, not us.
     
  4. Mariner
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    Mariner Active Member

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    But moral arguments can cut both ways. Was it moral to invade a sovereign country on a fabricated charge that they had ICBMs armed with nuclear weapons ready to attack us? Is it moral to set aside the Geneva convention? Is it moral to spend more while taxing less, creating an enormous debt burden for our children to pay off? Is it moral to change congressional ethics rules so that our own leaders can avoid punishment for their crimes? Is it moral to claim a mandate when 48% of the population voted against you and your approval rating prior to the election was less than 50%?

    I agree with this columnist's explanation for Bush's victory--that he was seen as a leader even by many people who didn't agree with him on particular issues (the majority of Americans oppose his beliefs on the environment, on abortion, on a constitutional amendment banning gay marriage, and on massive deficit spending).

    I disagree with her point about sexual morality. She's ignoring the actual facts: Massachusetts, where we've supposedly remade Sodom and Gomorrah, has a lower divorce rate than every other state in the country, and fewer of out-of-wedlock births than nearly every "red," "moral" state. What if liberal social policy actually promotes moral behavior better than weak gov't and strong church?

    Mariner.
     
  5. Mariner
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    Mariner Active Member

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    Your "helmets suck" tag-phrase got me thinking... I am curious what the conservative position on helmet use is? The average case of severe head injury from motorcycle accidents costs upwards of $500,000 per year in rehabilitation and nursing home costs. Can I safely assume that every conservative motorcycle rider has either purchased long-term insurance that will cover this cost, or has sufficient money in the bank to cover these costs so that they are not borne by "liberal" society?

    This situation seems to me a really good test of the extent to which safety networks are needed in society, and the extent of the social contract, e.g. a helmet law which essentially says, "Since we have the medical knowledge to save your life if you are head-injured, but it costs a fortune, we need to mandate that you wear a helmet."

    Mariner.
     
  6. 007
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    007 Charter Member Supporting Member

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    No they don't. You being a liberal and contorting the issues is what cuts both ways.

    This country was no more "soveriegn" than Palestine is, and after the first gulf war, building up a military might to the extreme was Sadam's intention, and attack America with it. If you don't know that, you are either ignorant, or denying yourself the truth.

    NO ONE... I repeat NO ONE, has EVER, followed the Geneva Conventions closer than America. Your anti-America liberal, micheal moore induced coma is really showing itself here.


    Is it MORAL to tax me into poverty? Is it MORAL to make me work the first FIVE MONTHS OF THE YEAR JUST TO PAY TAXES? Is it moral to TAKE FROM ME TO GIVE TO OTHERS? Is COMMUNISM your answer? Of course it is. You're a socialist liberal.

    And what would Bill Clintons answer be to that? Or how about Tom Dashel?

    The heart of the nation reelected President Bush. Get over it.

    NO... they DON'T. The statement of yours above is a crock of shit.

    Prove it.
     
  7. 007
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    007 Charter Member Supporting Member

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    Don't make claims you can't back up slow load. Either provide a link with facts, or admit you're just running your liberal cake hole with fabricated stats.

    LET THOSE WHO RIDE DECIDE.
     
  8. Mariner
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    Mariner Active Member

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    I'm a doctor and work with head injury all the time. A few months ago I read a half-dozen books about the costs of head injury and the policy issues involved (because I was involved in a forensic case related to a woman hit by a mail truck). My number ($500K per year) is not an exaggeration--it's a fact which you can look up yourself. Average total costs for head injury amount to millions of dollars per person.

    "Let those who ride decide." I say fine to that, as long as they take REAL responsibility for the consequences of their actions, which would mean setting aside enough money to pay their own medical bills rather than expecting me to do it via my taxes, or taking advantage of the liberal values of hospitals and doctors who provide care for free.

    Sir E., as for the Geneva convention, following it gives us a moral high ground and makes our overall actions less suspect. Every single innocent Muslim we mistreat gives Muslims reason to hate us, and, in my opinion, increases the risk of terrorism. The idea that we're going to scare them into not coming to get us doesn't make any sense to me. Being tough works to deter nation-states, which have something to lose, but won't deter an individual willing to give his/her life during a suicide attack. That's why I think we should pay attention to Muslim opinion rather than ignoring it or inflaming it unnecessarily. Detaining thousands of people without cause and holding them without trial makes us look to the rest of the world more like the old USSR than the "beacon of hope" we're supposed to be. So does mistreating prisoners at Abu Ghraib, killing unarmed soldiers in mosques, and taking revenge on insurgents. The U.S. had much higher standards in WWII, which is one of the reasons we earned so much of the world's respect at that time.

    BTW, I don't see how calling me a "butthead" advances your argument.

    Mariner
     
  9. nakedemperor
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    nakedemperor Senior Member

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    Pale, I really think you should wear a helmet. Riding a motorcycle is very, very dangerous to begin with, and not wearing a helmet is a pretty poor decision. Helmets alone can do wonders to protect your noggin' in an accident, and like Mariner said, if you do happen to injure your head severely, you'll likely never full recover and likely never pay off the debt. I realize there are cosmetic and personal reasons to not wear a helmet, but if you weigh the pros and cons, I'm sure you'll see that wearing a helmet is the right way to go.
     
  10. 007
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    007 Charter Member Supporting Member

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    naked... son... I've been riding motorcycles for forty plus years. I've had ONE accident, and then it was very late at night, and I was drunker than seven barrels of shit and should never have been on the bike. Fell asleep riding it in a corner and rode right off the road, wasn't wearing a helmet, never hit my head. Lucky? Maybe.

    If I'm ever in a serious accident on motorcycle I can tell you this, my frickin' head is the last thing I'm going to be worried about, because if I crack my skull I'll probably die, but if I break legs, arms, fingers, back, I going to have to live the life of a cripple, and that's worse then dying from head injury.

    If we're going to go the helmet route, then "CAR" drivers should ALSO be mandated to wear helmets. What's good for the goose is good for gander.
     

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