America's Poor

Sonny Clark

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Dec 12, 2014
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Gadsden Alabama
America's poor are still heavily in debt

America's poor are still heavily in debt

It's that time of year when Americans are encouraged to spend big on others and on themselves.
But here's the catch: a lot of America still is massively in debt, especially in the lower rungs of the income ladder. Wealthy families have been able to pay off a lot of their debt in recent years, but poorer families have not.
The situation is so bad that Morgan Stanley (MS) says the middle class is "eroding." Too many people have high debt burdens.
It's a trap they just can't get out of. Wages aren't growing for those at the bottom, making it hard to pay off debt.
Two Americas: high-end and low-end

Inequality has become a big issue on the presidential campaign trail. But Morgan Stanley also sees it playing out in the business world. The middle income consumer is disappearing. Retailers must respond by catering to the high and low end.

"Faced with stagnant wages, high debt and rising costs, the middle class is eroded," writes Morgan Stanley Research in a new report "Mind the Inequality Gap."

In Europe, the amount of debt people have increases as their income rises. The poor don't carry a huge debt load, the researchers found.

It's the exact opposite in the U.S. The lower middle class and poor came into the Great Recession with a lot of debt and they haven't been able to pay it down since.

About 1 in 5 American families who make $41,200 or less have what's considered a hefty debt burden -- defined as more than 40% debt-to-income load.
The national statistics mask the ongoing struggle of the poor and middle class. Even if they wanted to be more responsible, it's difficult to pay down debt when incomes aren't rising.

As the Federal Reserve noted in its latest survey of consumer finances: "Families at the bottom of the income distribution saw continued substantial declines in average real incomes between 2010 and 2013, continuing the trend observed between the 2007 and 2010 surveys."
 
If people can't understand that they can't spend more than they make then they deserve to be broke
 
I generally pay cash than time payments.

and if I run out of cash?

There's always a convenience store, or a bank around.
 
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If people can't understand that they can't spend more than they make then they deserve to be broke
For some people, it takes more than they make to live and survive. We have full-time workers receiving some form of government assistance. In most cases, minimum wage doesn't stretch far enough. Consider the cost of food, transportation, utilities, rent, health care, taxes, and unexpected expenses.

Don't pass judgment until you've lived in their shoes. Being poor is not a desired lifestyle.
 
I have lived in their shoes and most poor folks I see smoke, drink, have tatoos and watch too much tv. Sure, I funded grad school with debt and have funded businesses with debt - but those were investments, not a tramp stamp.

Here's where you missed it - being poor to me was never a lifestyle, it was a circumstance that I was highly motivated to change. I passed through poverty a few times with a big chip on my shoulder and never allowed myself to be comfortable.

Even so, there is NO EXCUSE FOR CONSUMER DEBT - EVER. It's a self-inflicted cancer.
 
We will always have poor until the main reasons for it get worked on. No one ever wants to fix the poor, they just want to band aid it and make it worse in the long run.
Look at often referred to "Denmark" as an example. We have a poor percentage that is barely above theirs yet they only have 5.2 million people or so.. not to mention their suicide rate... :eek:
Giving people free shit doesn't work. We need to fight inflation, jobs, a REAL education and no more "every kid deserves a trophy" bullshit. This limp wristed way doesn't cut it.
THINK
 
Good money management is not common in any "class," and especially among those with lowest incomes. If they were "smart," they probably would have better incomes, right?

An intelligent, prudent person can live on very little money. America is perpetually loaded with immigrants who, starting with virtually nothing, are able to start a new business, live cheaply, and somehow manage to get by, and even to send their kids to college. They and their children work in the business without compensation, knowing that it will work out in the long run. But it takes hard work and self-sacrifice, which are uncommon virtues among those of us where were born here.

In fact, "we" think we are entitled to have such luxuries as cell phones, flat screen TV's, video games, cars, nice clothes, and so on, even when we don't have the income to pay for them. And the Credit Card industry makes it possible for us to indulge ourselves even when there is a good chance that the debts will be quite burdensome to pay.

In most cases, when someone is poor and heavily in debt, it is not the result of factors outside their control, but rather poor choices and immaturity.

I've been poor and it's no fun. Which is why I worked my ass off to NOT be poor anymore.
 
Poor, been there done that, didn't like it. I did something about it.
Be very thankful. Many have honestly tried to climb up from the ranks of the poor, and have failed. In America, the deck is stacked against the poor, and soon, it may be stacked against those slightly above poverty. We do not have an adequate number of self-supporting opportunities to meet the growing demand. Employers are paying less, and offering less company paid benefits. In addition, many employers are forcing workers 50 and older, to take early retirement.

The workforce norm is now part-time, temporary, and low-wage employment. Also, we're still importing cheap labor, off-shore out-sourcing labor, and allowing illegal immigrants to live and work in this country. All of this is a by-product of the "Global Economy", which basically means "equalization to the lowest level", and we're rapidly approaching that equalization.

And, we have to remember, and consider, the fact that technology, innovation, and automation are replacing workers at a rapid pace. In other words, it take less employees to produce the products to satisfy the demand. Also, we must take into consideration our growing population. At present, a college degree doesn't guarantee a living wage job. We have many college grads flipping burgers and living with parents.

It's easy to criticize the poor, until we look at the big picture. Self-supporting opportunities are NOT on every street corner like they were back in the 50s and 60s. As we've become more dependent on cheap foreign imports, we have less plants and factories that once provided living wage jobs that covered all education and skill levels. Since the 60s, we've lost all or part of many industries, including the textile, electronics, tool, toy, appliances, auto parts, furniture, housewares, and farm equipment industries.

It's not as easy to climb the social and economic ladder as it once was.
 
If people can't understand that they can't spend more than they make then they deserve to be broke
For some people, it takes more than they make to live and survive. We have full-time workers receiving some form of government assistance. In most cases, minimum wage doesn't stretch far enough. Consider the cost of food, transportation, utilities, rent, health care, taxes, and unexpected expenses.

Don't pass judgment until you've lived in their shoes. Being poor is not a desired lifestyle.

How do you know I haven't?

When I was working shit paying jobs I worked more than one job never spent more than I made and still manged to pay rent eat and keep a car on the road without getting into debt

WHat I didn't do was drink, smoke, eat out etc
 
America's poor are still heavily in debt

America's poor are still heavily in debt

It's that time of year when Americans are encouraged to spend big on others and on themselves.
But here's the catch: a lot of America still is massively in debt, especially in the lower rungs of the income ladder. Wealthy families have been able to pay off a lot of their debt in recent years, but poorer families have not.
The situation is so bad that Morgan Stanley (MS) says the middle class is "eroding." Too many people have high debt burdens.
It's a trap they just can't get out of. Wages aren't growing for those at the bottom, making it hard to pay off debt.
Two Americas: high-end and low-end

Inequality has become a big issue on the presidential campaign trail. But Morgan Stanley also sees it playing out in the business world. The middle income consumer is disappearing. Retailers must respond by catering to the high and low end.

"Faced with stagnant wages, high debt and rising costs, the middle class is eroded," writes Morgan Stanley Research in a new report "Mind the Inequality Gap."

In Europe, the amount of debt people have increases as their income rises. The poor don't carry a huge debt load, the researchers found.

It's the exact opposite in the U.S. The lower middle class and poor came into the Great Recession with a lot of debt and they haven't been able to pay it down since.

About 1 in 5 American families who make $41,200 or less have what's considered a hefty debt burden -- defined as more than 40% debt-to-income load.
The national statistics mask the ongoing struggle of the poor and middle class. Even if they wanted to be more responsible, it's difficult to pay down debt when incomes aren't rising.

As the Federal Reserve noted in its latest survey of consumer finances: "Families at the bottom of the income distribution saw continued substantial declines in average real incomes between 2010 and 2013, continuing the trend observed between the 2007 and 2010 surveys."

so why not end the liberal policies that shipped 40 million jobs to China?? And end the liberal war on the family and schools that renders many Americans unfit for work? And end the liberal programs that create dependency and a population of liberal block voters.
 
The deck is stacked against stupid people. And people who make poor decisions. When i lost everything and had not a pot to piss in - poverty was the floor I picked myself off of.
 
If one is smart they may be able to get ahead and maybe not. Today odds are not in favor of the working class. One cannot live or pay a single bill on $15 an hour.
 
Yup the rich work more hours than anyone. Nice troll reply. Most rich work less than half that. They've won the war vs the working class.
 
Yup the rich work more hours than anyone. Nice troll reply. Most rich work less than half that. They've won the war vs the working class.

a liberal enjoys looking stupid!!!

This is the case with most CEOs, who usually spend at least an additional two hours of their evenings working from home. Added to the previous hours spent working in the office, this makes for an even longer day of 13-14 hours. When asked what time they go to bed, most CEOs said that they try to be in bed by 10:30 p.m., which gives them 6-7 hours of sleep before the next day begins.The Reality of Running a Business: An Inside Look...
 

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