Americans killed in a single day: Al-Qaeda vs Confederacy

[Procrustes Stretched]

Americans killed in a single day: Al-Qaeda vs Confederacy

Guess who cased the death of 7,000 Americans in a single day -- in no less than 20 minutes? Yep you guessed it right, the Confederacy. Yet we still have traitorous Americans proudly flying the Confederate Flag.

I went down south and saw all those forts, and statues celebrating the Confederacy. I wonder, will Al-Qaeda be celebrated? Maybe not, they only killed 3,000 people, not all of them Americans, and it took a lot longer than 20 minutes.

 

[R.C. Christian]

Americans killed in a single day: Al-Qaeda vs Confederacy

Guess who cased the death of 7,000 Americans in a single day -- in no less than 20 minutes? Yep you guessed it right, the Confederacy. Yet we still have traitorous Americans proudly flying the Confederate Flag.

I went down south and saw all those forts, and statues celebrating the Confederacy. I wonder, will Al-Qaeda be celebrated? Maybe not, they only killed 3,000 people, not all Americans and it took a lot longer than 20 minutes.

Oh that is just brilliant, a confederacy vs. taliban analogy, wow, you have really outdone yourself. I guess the union should have planned better at Antietam.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

Guess who killed around 1000 of their fellow Englishmen in a single battle. You got it, those treasonous rebels from the American colonies. Yet we still have traitorous British-Americans flying Old Glory.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Americans killed in a single day: Al-Qaeda vs Confederacy

Guess who cased the death of 7,000 Americans in a single day -- in no less than 20 minutes? Yep you guessed it right, the Confederacy. Yet we still have traitorous Americans proudly flying the Confederate Flag.

I went down south and saw all those forts, and statues celebrating the Confederacy. I wonder, will Al-Qaeda be celebrated? Maybe not, they only killed 3,000 people, not all Americans and it took a lot longer than 20 minutes.

Oh that is just brilliant, a confederacy vs. taliban analogy, wow, you have really outdone yourself. I guess the union should have planned better at Antietam.

Not an analogy. More of a comparison. You may draw the conclusions you want, but I did not intend to establish similarity by analogy.

 

[random3434]

Massacre At Wounded Knee, 1890

Native American Atrocities - The Sand Creek Massacre


Indian Massacre

 

[xotoxi]

Hiroshima

 

[JBeukema]

Americans killed in a single day: Al-Qaeda vs Confederacy

Guess who cased the death of 7,000 Americans in a single day -- in no less than 20 minutes? Yep you guessed it right, the Confederacy. Yet we still have traitorous Americans proudly flying the Confederate Flag.

I went down south and saw all those forts, and statues celebrating the Confederacy. I wonder, will Al-Qaeda be celebrated? Maybe not, they only killed 3,000 people, not all Americans and it took a lot longer than 20 minutes.

I get the distinct impression that you're an idiot

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Guess who killed around 1000 of their fellow Englishmen in a single battle. You got it, those treasonous rebels from the American colonies. Yet we still have traitorous British-Americans flying Old Glory.

British-Americans?

I think George Washington and John Adams settled that they were not British citizens, but American citizens.


and as far as the Crown was concerned, the rebels were traitors. Some were hanged as such. you would need to say the rebels lost the war and their like minded folk were flying an American rebel flag in order to make a fair comparison. but keep trying. I'm sure you'll fall upon something -- sooner or later.


I see the dopes from the USMB peanut gallery have thanked you.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Americans killed in a single day: Al-Qaeda vs Confederacy

Guess who cased the death of 7,000 Americans in a single day -- in no less than 20 minutes? Yep you guessed it right, the Confederacy. Yet we still have traitorous Americans proudly flying the Confederate Flag.

I went down south and saw all those forts, and statues celebrating the Confederacy. I wonder, will Al-Qaeda be celebrated? Maybe not, they only killed 3,000 people, not all Americans and it took a lot longer than 20 minutes.

I get the distinct impression that you're an idiot

The difference is, I have been inoculated from the idiot virus that affects those who post here often.

you cannot address the thread topic?

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Massacre At Wounded Knee, 1890

Native American Atrocities - The Sand Creek Massacre


Indian Massacre

I have no idea what you and xotoxi are trying to say.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

Guess who killed around 1000 of their fellow Englishmen in a single battle. You got it, those treasonous rebels from the American colonies. Yet we still have traitorous British-Americans flying Old Glory.

British-Americans?

I think George Washington and John Adams settled that they were not British citizens, but American citizens.


and as far as the Crown was concerned, the rebels were traitors. Some were hanged as such. you would need to say the rebels lost the war and their like minded folk were flying an American rebel flag in order to make a fair comparison. but keep trying. I'm sure you'll fall upon something -- sooner than later.


I see the dopes from the USMB peanut gallery have thanked you.

The same government that was born from the declaration:

"That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness."

Less than 100 years later made the case, through war, that the right of the people to institute new government did not exist.

So you see, if those who fly Confederate flags are traitors then the only logical conclusion is that anybody flying Old Glory is also a traitor.

 

[Article 15]

This thread will get ugly.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

This thread will get ugly.

Hey! I resemble that remark.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Guess who killed around 1000 of their fellow Englishmen in a single battle. You got it, those treasonous rebels from the American colonies. Yet we still have traitorous British-Americans flying Old Glory.

British-Americans?

I think George Washington and John Adams settled that they were not British citizens, but American citizens.


and as far as the Crown was concerned, the rebels were traitors. Some were hanged as such. you would need to say the rebels lost the war and their like minded folk were flying an American rebel flag in order to make a fair comparison. but keep trying. I'm sure you'll fall upon something -- sooner than later.


I see the dopes from the USMB peanut gallery have thanked you.

The same government that was born from the declaration:

"That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness."

Less than 100 years later made the case, through war, that the right of the people to institute new government did not exist.

So you see, if those who fly Confederate flags are traitors then the only logical conclusion is that anybody flying Old Glory is also a traitor.

sigh

spare me the declaration nonsense, and your premise concerning the American Civil War is flawed. You are hiding the arguments of some of the states behind 'The right of the people' -- of the United States of America. Using your flawed logic, the founding fathers believed anyone could opt out at any time.

now, before we get too far this early on...

here is the OP

Americans killed in a single day: Al-Qaeda vs Confederacy

Guess who cased the death of 7,000 Americans in a single day -- in no less than 20 minutes? Yep you guessed it right, the Confederacy. Yet we still have traitorous Americans proudly flying the Confederate Flag.

I went down south and saw all those forts, and statues celebrating the Confederacy. I wonder, will Al-Qaeda be celebrated? Maybe not, they only killed 3,000 people, not all Americans and it took a lot longer than 20 minutes.

The British did indeed consider the rebels traitors and so did many of the colonists who were tories. As a matter of fact, the founding fathers knew they were committing treason. Their acts, like those of Benedict Arnold, went from disagreements to outright treason. And in both cases I understand the arguments.

You cannot credibly compare cases like you have attempted to do on 2 occasions unless you ignore the basic premises. You are making up your own argument and trying to say it is mine.

Americans who fly the Confederate Flag, are using a symbol of an enemy within, of the United States of America.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

British-Americans?

I think George Washington and John Adams settled that they were not British citizens, but American citizens.


and as far as the Crown was concerned, the rebels were traitors. Some were hanged as such. you would need to say the rebels lost the war and their like minded folk were flying an American rebel flag in order to make a fair comparison. but keep trying. I'm sure you'll fall upon something -- sooner than later.


I see the dopes from the USMB peanut gallery have thanked you.

The same government that was born from the declaration:

"That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness."

Less than 100 years later made the case, through war, that the right of the people to institute new government did not exist.

So you see, if those who fly Confederate flags are traitors then the only logical conclusion is that anybody flying Old Glory is also a traitor.

sigh

spare me the declaration nonsense, and your premise concerning the American Civil War is flawed. You are hiding the arguments of some of the states behind 'The right of the people' -- of the United States of America. Using your flawed logic, the founding fathers believed anyone could opt out at any time.

now, before we get too far this early on...

here is the OP

Americans killed in a single day: Al-Qaeda vs Confederacy

Guess who cased the death of 7,000 Americans in a single day -- in no less than 20 minutes? Yep you guessed it right, the Confederacy. Yet we still have traitorous Americans proudly flying the Confederate Flag.

I went down south and saw all those forts, and statues celebrating the Confederacy. I wonder, will Al-Qaeda be celebrated? Maybe not, they only killed 3,000 people, not all Americans and it took a lot longer than 20 minutes.

The British did indeed consider the rebels traitors and so did many of the colonists who were tories. As a matter of fact, the founding fathers knew they were committing treason. Their acts, like those of Benedict Arnold, went from disagreements to outright treason. And in both cases I understand the arguments.

You cannot credibly compare cases like you have attempted to do on 2 occasions unless you ignore the basic premises. You are making up your own argument and trying to say it is mine.

Americans who fly the Confederate Flag, are using a symbol of an enemy within, of the United States of America.

So apparently the colonies in the Continental Congress were also hiding behind "The right of the people," correct? Yes, some of the founding fathers did believe that the states could opt out at any time.

The founders didn't believe they were committing treason whatsoever. They believed that the right of self-government was a natural right, and therefore above the law of any king.

The basic premise in both the Revolutionary and Civil War were the same. A group of states declaring their independence from a central government.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Article II, Section 2: The President shall be Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the Militia of the several States...he shall have power to Grant Reprieves and Pardons for Offenses against the United States, except in Cases of Impeachment.

President of the United States, Andrew Johnson, granted a general amnesty granted after the American Civil War (1861-April 9, 1865). Why? For political offenses like treason? To whom is amnesty granted? Traitors?

Political offenses like treason?

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Americans who fly the Confederate Flag, are using a symbol of an enemy within, of the United States of America.

So apparently the colonies in the Continental Congress were also hiding behind "The right of the people," correct? Yes, some of the founding fathers did believe that the states could opt out at any time.

The founders didn't believe they were committing treason whatsoever. They believed that the right of self-government was a natural right, and therefore above the law of any king.

The basic premise in both the Revolutionary and Civil War were the same. A group of states declaring their independence from a central government.

The founders knew they were committing treason. They were loyal subjects of the Crown trying to determine the limits of self government. They tried this all within the confines of staying as far away from treason as they could. They often met in secrecy. Of course we say they fought for their freedom. But the fight was a treasonous act from the British perspective. . American Revolution - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The basic premise only holds if one wins. To the victor goes the spoils. The British signed a deal and gave property to the new USA. A legal recognition that is was somehow theirs.

The peace treaty with Britain, known as the Treaty of Paris, gave the U.S. all land east of the Mississippi River and south of the Great Lakes, though not including Florida (On September 3, 1783, Britain entered into a separate agreement with Spain under which Britain ceded Florida back to Spain.). The Native American nations actually living in this region were not a party to this treaty and did not recognize it until they were defeated militarily by the United States. Issues regarding boundaries and debts were not resolved until the Jay Treaty of 1795.[89]

The American Civil War was lost by the rebel traitors. They were granted and they accepted, pardons and amnesty, a recognition of political crimes.

The idea that states could secede without the approval of all or the majority of the states that formed the Union was never supported in signed documents as far as I know. [note]: I have been shown otherwise: "The United States Supreme Court ruled unilateral secession unconstitutional while commenting that revolution or consent of the states could lead to a successful secession."

---

now we do have this stuff: U.S. Constitution and this: Secession in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

Americans who fly the Confederate Flag, are using a symbol of an enemy within, of the United States of America.

So apparently the colonies in the Continental Congress were also hiding behind "The right of the people," correct? Yes, some of the founding fathers did believe that the states could opt out at any time.

The founders didn't believe they were committing treason whatsoever. They believed that the right of self-government was a natural right, and therefore above the law of any king.

The basic premise in both the Revolutionary and Civil War were the same. A group of states declaring their independence from a central government.

The founders knew they were committing treason. They were loyal subjects of the Crown trying to determine the limits of self government. They tried this all within the confines of staying as far away from treason as they could. They often met in secrecy. Of course we say they fought for their freedom. But the fight was a treasonous act from the British perspective. . American Revolution - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The basic premise only holds if one wins. To the victor goes the spoils. The British signed a deal and gave property to the new USA. A legal recognition that is was somehow theirs.

The peace treaty with Britain, known as the Treaty of Paris, gave the U.S. all land east of the Mississippi River and south of the Great Lakes, though not including Florida (On September 3, 1783, Britain entered into a separate agreement with Spain under which Britain ceded Florida back to Spain.). The Native American nations actually living in this region were not a party to this treaty and did not recognize it until they were defeated militarily by the United States. Issues regarding boundaries and debts were not resolved until the Jay Treaty of 1795.[89]

The American Civil War was lost by the rebel traitors. They were granted and they accepted, pardons and amnesty, a recognition of political crimes.

The idea that states could secede without the approval of all or the majority of the states that formed the Union was never supported in signed documents as far as I know. [note]: I have been shown otherwise: "The United States Supreme Court ruled unilateral secession unconstitutional while commenting that revolution or consent of the states could lead to a successful secession."

---

now we do have this stuff: U.S. Constitution and this: Secession in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So your point of view basically boils down to who has the bigger guns? If you can kill more of their people than they kill of yours then you have the right to secede?

 

[JBeukema]

So apparently the colonies in the Continental Congress were also hiding behind "The right of the people," correct? Yes, some of the founding fathers did believe that the states could opt out at any time.

The founders didn't believe they were committing treason whatsoever. They believed that the right of self-government was a natural right, and therefore above the law of any king.

The basic premise in both the Revolutionary and Civil War were the same. A group of states declaring their independence from a central government.

The founders knew they were committing treason. They were loyal subjects of the Crown trying to determine the limits of self government. They tried this all within the confines of staying as far away from treason as they could. They often met in secrecy. Of course we say they fought for their freedom. But the fight was a treasonous act from the British perspective. . American Revolution - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The basic premise only holds if one wins. To the victor goes the spoils. The British signed a deal and gave property to the new USA. A legal recognition that is was somehow theirs.

The peace treaty with Britain, known as the Treaty of Paris, gave the U.S. all land east of the Mississippi River and south of the Great Lakes, though not including Florida (On September 3, 1783, Britain entered into a separate agreement with Spain under which Britain ceded Florida back to Spain.). The Native American nations actually living in this region were not a party to this treaty and did not recognize it until they were defeated militarily by the United States. Issues regarding boundaries and debts were not resolved until the Jay Treaty of 1795.[89]

The American Civil War was lost by the rebel traitors. They were granted and they accepted, pardons and amnesty, a recognition of political crimes.

The idea that states could secede without the approval of all or the majority of the states that formed the Union was never supported in signed documents as far as I know. [note]: I have been shown otherwise: "The United States Supreme Court ruled unilateral secession unconstitutional while commenting that revolution or consent of the states could lead to a successful secession."

---

now we do have this stuff: U.S. Constitution and this: Secession in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So your point of view basically boils down to who has the bigger guns? If you can kill more of their people than they kill of yours then you have the right to secede?

Might makes right, my friend. It's why the Right Wingers love their guns so much- it keeps them from needing actual points or having to argue intelligently.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

So apparently the colonies in the Continental Congress were also hiding behind "The right of the people," correct? Yes, some of the founding fathers did believe that the states could opt out at any time.

The founders didn't believe they were committing treason whatsoever. They believed that the right of self-government was a natural right, and therefore above the law of any king.

The basic premise in both the Revolutionary and Civil War were the same. A group of states declaring their independence from a central government.

The founders knew they were committing treason. They were loyal subjects of the Crown trying to determine the limits of self government. They tried this all within the confines of staying as far away from treason as they could. They often met in secrecy. Of course we say they fought for their freedom. But the fight was a treasonous act from the British perspective. . American Revolution - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The basic premise only holds if one wins. To the victor goes the spoils. The British signed a deal and gave property to the new USA. A legal recognition that is was somehow theirs.

The peace treaty with Britain, known as the Treaty of Paris, gave the U.S. all land east of the Mississippi River and south of the Great Lakes, though not including Florida (On September 3, 1783, Britain entered into a separate agreement with Spain under which Britain ceded Florida back to Spain.). The Native American nations actually living in this region were not a party to this treaty and did not recognize it until they were defeated militarily by the United States. Issues regarding boundaries and debts were not resolved until the Jay Treaty of 1795.[89]

The American Civil War was lost by the rebel traitors. They were granted and they accepted, pardons and amnesty, a recognition of political crimes.

The idea that states could secede without the approval of all or the majority of the states that formed the Union was never supported in signed documents as far as I know. [note]: I have been shown otherwise: "The United States Supreme Court ruled unilateral secession unconstitutional while commenting that revolution or consent of the states could lead to a successful secession."

---

now we do have this stuff: U.S. Constitution and this: Secession in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So your point of view basically boils down to who has the bigger guns? If you can kill more of their people than they kill of yours then you have the right to secede?

"So your point of view basically boils down to who has the bigger guns?"

In winning a war, yes, but that is not what the thread is about.

---

If you can kill more of their people than they kill of yours then you have the right to secede?

I never said that.

I linked to what the Supreme Court has ruled, and I linked to other things. You are entitled to opinions and interpretations, but you are not entitled to putting words into my mouth or being able to easily taking things off topic with side arguments that avoid the basic premise of the OP.

The President granted a general amnesty. Why? For what? The South accepted the amnesty. Ideals and intellectual arguments are a poor substitute for the facts of living in the real world, where arguments are often treated as what they are -- words, just words.

The Confederacy was made up of internal enemies of the United States. They took up arms against the United States. That is treason. The colonists took up arms against the Crown. That was also at the time a treasonous act.


context is everything

An American flying a colonial rebel flag in Britain, is not the same as an American flying the Confederate flag in America. The British acknowledged the independence of the Americans. Americans are not British citizens. The American flag is not hostile to Britain. The British recognized the right of American independence. We ceased being enemies. But the act of independence transcended being traitorous because Britain agreed with the independence.

What if an American wants to fly the NAZI flag? To me it is similar to an American flying a rebel flag. The Nazis and the Confederacy were enemies of the USA. Onje within, the other outside. Their symbols represent hostility towards the permanent union that created the USA. America never recognized the Confederacy as a legitimate independent government and the flag of the Confederacy remains a hostile symbol.