American Healthcare: a Hostage Crisis that's Killing our Economy

[dblack]

Voters beware: Your favorite candidate can't do crap about the following unless s/he has BIG BRASS BALLS. (edit: I added Bush to the poll as an afterthought...something in my subconscious didn't bring the name "Bush" to mind when considering "a run for president in 2016"...lol..)

Obamacare was nothing but a supreme capitulation to lobbying blackmail/pressure that there be no public healthcare. The private insurance companies wanted to force poorer people to buy their product. They just retooled the "sliding scale" to equal the same cash inflow. There was no hurt felt by them and that was the ultimate goal forced upon Obama. It was his worst failure dressed up as a "success". But he is not singularly to blame. BigHealth is the real culprit. He was just a pussy in the face of them. They were the mafia and he was the spineless chump "trying weakly to change things".. They mowed him down like grass and kept all their hostages quite nicely, thank you very much.

This nation is in economic freefall for one industry: BigHealth. The people do want to be taxed to pay for free healthcare. The richer folk can still purchase private insurance for premium care. But that way BigHealth will take a hit. The barrier between economic well being & us is BigHealth. They demand the equivalent of a second mortgage be handed to them by the American family and they demand the equivalent of about 1/3 of the revenue for companies to hire more workers. They have our nation hostage and all other business is suffering.

You didn't notice it quite as much when the economy was strong. But now the Giant Leech is exposed and everyone else is taking the hit; even many of the 1% wondering "why is all the money being spent somewhere besides my industry??" Guess what, families consider healthcare a priority. When they're done getting it...Obamacare or not...what tiny little disposable income some may have is GONE.

That's why maybe nobody has a "right" to free healthcare yet (paid for by sales taxes on tobacco, booze & sugar, tax breaks for those who make their yearly checkups, small co-pay to cover actual costs at clinics), but it is economic stupidity that We allow BigHealth to hold us hostage. We have the right to enact free healthcare for ourselves using Article 1, Section 8...to collect taxes (at the register) to provide for Our Own common Welfare...like we do for fire, police, roads, military etc. What could be more of a necessity for protection of human life than healthcare?

If we stop the hemorrhaging of the American family income at its root, their disposable income will nearly double, and so will their purchasing power. If we stop the hemorrhaging of the American business outlay at its root, there will be more jobs....more startups...more innovation free from fear of too much overhead to make a profit. There will be more income tax revenue, higher GDP, less debt and more economic growth..

Hmmm...more disposable American income to spend and create demand...more jobs...more home sales, more vacations taken...more oil purchased.. more luxuries demanded...

..or not...

You can write off all the career politicians, this country has been there and done done that... It's always failed.

Maybe lets no be insane as an country not try that again??

Very unlikely we'll get anything different. As long as slack-jawed tv watchers comprise the majority of the electorate, we're screwed.

 

[healthmyths]

Will answer the poll above when I listen to the debate about the issue coming from the candidate that says it best when confronted about the issue.

While I'd love to be proven wrong, I don't see my original answer changing. Sanders is the only one with any credible plans to reform healthcare.

. But what is his plan do you know ? Haven't paid attention to him on the issue, because I am for Ted Cruz in the race. Great issue, and hope it gets attention by all who are running.

Bernie is for single payer - Medicare for all. I've read what I can find from Cruz on healthcare, but I haven't seen anything beyond the usual Republican "alternative", which just involved changing the individual mandate into tax incentives and getting rid of guaranteed issues. Basically giving the insurance companies everything they get with ACA with nothing in return.

Once again...ignorance on display!
How many people do you think are "uninsured" before Obamacare?
Obama lied to you when before ACA he said:
Obama sold ACA on the premise there were in his words: "I don’t have to explain to you that nearly 46 million Americans don’t have health insurance coverage today. In the wealthiest nation on Earth, 46 million of our fellow citizens have no coverage.”
BUT when you look at what constituted this "46 million"... here are the FACTS...
not made up numbers as Obama used to lie about and depended on as Gruber said the "Stupidity of the American Voter"....

1) 10 million Obama counted were not Americans... not citizens per the Census
Proof: Income, Poverty and Health Insurance Coverage in the United States: 2009 - Income & Wealth - Newsroom - U.S. Census Bureau
Now since you asked for more current data:
Although the flow of undocumented immigration to the United States has slowed in recent years, as of March 2010 there were still an estimated 11.2 million undocumented immigrants in the country.. Undocumented Immigrants, Left Out Of Health Reform, Likely To Continue To Grow As Share Of The Uninsured
AND NOT ONE of these 11.2 million illegal immigrants are to have any health insurance especially under Obamacare!
So that knocks at least according to the 2009 census 10 million from the 46 million he lied as calling them "Americans"!

2) 14 million that were Eligible for MEDICAID BEFORE ACA!
Obama failed to get 14 million people eligible for Medicaid enrolled. That's all that is needed. That leaves 22 million.
there was NO NEED for Obamacare to cover these 14 million all they need do is REGISTER!!!
http://coverageforall.org/pdf/BC-BS_Uninsured-America.pdf
But either Obama didn't know this which is gross incompetency OR he did and ignored to get Obamacare passed! HYPED the numbers.

3) Finally why should 18 million people under age 34 that make over $50,000 that DIDN"T WANT their employers coverage be FORCED to buy
something they don't want OR NEED?
Just to pitch to the idiots of America as Gruber said it took the "Stupidity of the American Voter" to pass there were NEVER 46 million that
were legal, or wanted health insurance and all needed to be done for 14 million was get them registered! That's it!
The fact is subtract that 42 million from 46 million and you come up with less then 4 million!

There NEVER were 46 million uninsured but less then 4 million that truly want and need health insurance.

But Obama is destroying health care financing to the degree that this is what the largest insurance companies now say.
The head of the third-biggest U.S. health insurer said he has “serious concerns” about whether or not Obamacare’s new markets are sustainable, echoing criticism from other top for-profit insurers.

“We continue to have serious concerns about the sustainability of the public exchanges,” Aetna Inc. Chief Executive Officer Mark Bertolini said on a call Monday while discussing the company’s fourth-quarter results. “We remain concerned about the overall stability of the risk pool.”

UnitedHealth has said that it will probably take about $1 billion in losses on Obamacare plans when 2015 and 2016 results are combined.
The company has that it should have stayed out of the market longer, and that it may quit the program in 2017.

Aetna CEO Has `Serious Concerns' About Obamacare Sustainability

Uh.. I think you meant that as a response to someone else.

Did you not write: "Basically giving the insurance companies everything they get with ACA with nothing in return."

And my response was to show you how the insurance companies are NOT happy with ACA even though you wrote the above???

 

[Silhouette]

Very unlikely we'll get anything different. As long as slack-jawed tv watchers comprise the majority of the electorate, we're screwed.

I think the fundamental elements of any candidate we want to save our economy (push through universal care for the masses as described in the OP) have to be the ability to feel empathy for others (not be narcissistic/a career politician), and be patriotic and intelligent enough to see that this one industry, BigHealth, is effectively gutting American jobs to the point of destroying our economy.

"Allowing them to compete across state lines" ain't gonna cut it. They'll pack up behind the scenes, cut a gentleman's deal and still rape our economy into the pit. They don't give a shit about America and that's the bottom line, literally and figuratively.. Anyone who can hold out healthcare for ransom while innocent people die, is fully and completely capable of also selling their own country down the river, lock stock and barrel. What's the difference between countrymen and a country when you boil it down?

Like fire protection, a vital necessity cannot be privatized because scumbag privateers, like pirates, will ALWAYS find a way to hold people hostage for large ransom out of fear for their very lives if they don't pony up..

 

[dblack]

While I'd love to be proven wrong, I don't see my original answer changing. Sanders is the only one with any credible plans to reform healthcare.

. But what is his plan do you know ? Haven't paid attention to him on the issue, because I am for Ted Cruz in the race. Great issue, and hope it gets attention by all who are running.

Bernie is for single payer - Medicare for all. I've read what I can find from Cruz on healthcare, but I haven't seen anything beyond the usual Republican "alternative", which just involved changing the individual mandate into tax incentives and getting rid of guaranteed issues. Basically giving the insurance companies everything they get with ACA with nothing in return.

Once again...ignorance on display!
How many people do you think are "uninsured" before Obamacare?
Obama lied to you when before ACA he said:
Obama sold ACA on the premise there were in his words: "I don’t have to explain to you that nearly 46 million Americans don’t have health insurance coverage today. In the wealthiest nation on Earth, 46 million of our fellow citizens have no coverage.”
BUT when you look at what constituted this "46 million"... here are the FACTS...
not made up numbers as Obama used to lie about and depended on as Gruber said the "Stupidity of the American Voter"....

1) 10 million Obama counted were not Americans... not citizens per the Census
Proof: Income, Poverty and Health Insurance Coverage in the United States: 2009 - Income & Wealth - Newsroom - U.S. Census Bureau
Now since you asked for more current data:
Although the flow of undocumented immigration to the United States has slowed in recent years, as of March 2010 there were still an estimated 11.2 million undocumented immigrants in the country.. Undocumented Immigrants, Left Out Of Health Reform, Likely To Continue To Grow As Share Of The Uninsured
AND NOT ONE of these 11.2 million illegal immigrants are to have any health insurance especially under Obamacare!
So that knocks at least according to the 2009 census 10 million from the 46 million he lied as calling them "Americans"!

2) 14 million that were Eligible for MEDICAID BEFORE ACA!
Obama failed to get 14 million people eligible for Medicaid enrolled. That's all that is needed. That leaves 22 million.
there was NO NEED for Obamacare to cover these 14 million all they need do is REGISTER!!!
http://coverageforall.org/pdf/BC-BS_Uninsured-America.pdf
But either Obama didn't know this which is gross incompetency OR he did and ignored to get Obamacare passed! HYPED the numbers.

3) Finally why should 18 million people under age 34 that make over $50,000 that DIDN"T WANT their employers coverage be FORCED to buy
something they don't want OR NEED?
Just to pitch to the idiots of America as Gruber said it took the "Stupidity of the American Voter" to pass there were NEVER 46 million that
were legal, or wanted health insurance and all needed to be done for 14 million was get them registered! That's it!
The fact is subtract that 42 million from 46 million and you come up with less then 4 million!

There NEVER were 46 million uninsured but less then 4 million that truly want and need health insurance.

But Obama is destroying health care financing to the degree that this is what the largest insurance companies now say.
The head of the third-biggest U.S. health insurer said he has “serious concerns” about whether or not Obamacare’s new markets are sustainable, echoing criticism from other top for-profit insurers.

“We continue to have serious concerns about the sustainability of the public exchanges,” Aetna Inc. Chief Executive Officer Mark Bertolini said on a call Monday while discussing the company’s fourth-quarter results. “We remain concerned about the overall stability of the risk pool.”

UnitedHealth has said that it will probably take about $1 billion in losses on Obamacare plans when 2015 and 2016 results are combined.
The company has that it should have stayed out of the market longer, and that it may quit the program in 2017.

Aetna CEO Has `Serious Concerns' About Obamacare Sustainability

Uh.. I think you meant that as a response to someone else.

Did you not write: "Basically giving the insurance companies everything they get with ACA with nothing in return."

And my response was to show you how the insurance companies are NOT happy with ACA even though you wrote the above???

Still not sure how it relates to my post. My point was that Cruz, the rest of the Republicans, and the Democrats with the exception of Sanders, have no intention of making any meaningful changes to health care policy.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Here's part of the problem. American is too damn FAT. Walk into any store or restaurant, and I guarantee you over half is overweight. And not just a little overweight either. Hell, we have prime time tv that glamourises obesity. If America can just do the basic things to stay healthy, health care costs will drop dramatically.

There ya go! We need a fitness mandate.

NO, but give me a insurance discount for being in shape.

Many private insurance companies do, in fact, give you a break on your premiums for meeting certain health benchmarks. And guess what? Advocates of government control of healthcare bitch and moan about the whole idea because it's "unfair" to "discriminate" against people who are trying their dead level best to kill themselves early with their bad habits.

It's as if people claimed that lower car insurance premiums for people who drive carefully and don't get in accidents is "discriminatory" against people who drive like a bat out of hell. OF COURSE it discriminates against those making bad choices, and it damned well OUGHT to.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Couldn't disagree more. It should be like pre-Reagan years with affordable healthcare cost and charity hospitals for the truly poor or for those who have priorities elsewhere.

Why? Should police and fire protection also be privatized? Remember what I said here:

the minute someone goes to sleep at the wheel or takes bribes from lobbiests etc., we'll be right back where we are today. Since healthcare is so vital to human concerns, it cannot be allowed to be in the free market for the masses (the rich can still get their premium care). And that is precisely because the temptation and effectiveness of holding people hostage with their fear of their very life (being deprived essential healthcare) is just too great. Time and again we see such a hostage situation and monopolies will always thrive there.

It's like privatizing fire protection which I guess actually happened in the past. It got to be that houses would just burn down if folks didn't hand over the cash to the firefighters first.

People's lives are "burning down" from health-caused bankruptcies...businesses are "burning down" not being able to compete by having to provide healthcare (and thereby strip other folks of jobs where that money could have gone), our economy is "burning down"....and all of it is happening because of the BigHealth hostage situation..

I get so sick and tired of every argument becoming, "Well, look at this utterly unrelated topic that I have dragged in to pretend it's a valid analogy."

As opposed to your posts, which are predominantly "I'm such a superior being that you're not worth responding to, and yet I've responded anyway."

Now, if you're finished deflecting, why don't you share with us your thoughts on health care? Let me guess: "I've got mine, and fuck the rest of you."

Close?

YOU are very nearly the only one who gets "you're such a fucking joke as a human being that's you're not worthy of being taken seriously", so please stop trying to project my very personal contempt and disdain for you onto everyone else. I disagree with Sil, and I think her post was a ridiculous deflection. That being said, I at least respect her enough to accord her a discussion of why I think it was ridiculous. There is no comparison and analogy between her and you, and I'll thank you to remember that and stop trying to piggyback on the posts of others.

Now, if you're finished trying to elevate yourself, why don't you fuck off and let someone deserving of my attention ask questions? The answer to YOU is the same as always: you're a stain on humanity, and I will not besmirch myself by casting pearls before such a swine.

 

[Cecilie1200]

. But what is his plan do you know ? Haven't paid attention to him on the issue, because I am for Ted Cruz in the race. Great issue, and hope it gets attention by all who are running.

Bernie is for single payer - Medicare for all. I've read what I can find from Cruz on healthcare, but I haven't seen anything beyond the usual Republican "alternative", which just involved changing the individual mandate into tax incentives and getting rid of guaranteed issues. Basically giving the insurance companies everything they get with ACA with nothing in return.

Once again...ignorance on display!
How many people do you think are "uninsured" before Obamacare?
Obama lied to you when before ACA he said:
Obama sold ACA on the premise there were in his words: "I don’t have to explain to you that nearly 46 million Americans don’t have health insurance coverage today. In the wealthiest nation on Earth, 46 million of our fellow citizens have no coverage.”
BUT when you look at what constituted this "46 million"... here are the FACTS...
not made up numbers as Obama used to lie about and depended on as Gruber said the "Stupidity of the American Voter"....

1) 10 million Obama counted were not Americans... not citizens per the Census
Proof: Income, Poverty and Health Insurance Coverage in the United States: 2009 - Income & Wealth - Newsroom - U.S. Census Bureau
Now since you asked for more current data:
Although the flow of undocumented immigration to the United States has slowed in recent years, as of March 2010 there were still an estimated 11.2 million undocumented immigrants in the country.. Undocumented Immigrants, Left Out Of Health Reform, Likely To Continue To Grow As Share Of The Uninsured
AND NOT ONE of these 11.2 million illegal immigrants are to have any health insurance especially under Obamacare!
So that knocks at least according to the 2009 census 10 million from the 46 million he lied as calling them "Americans"!

2) 14 million that were Eligible for MEDICAID BEFORE ACA!
Obama failed to get 14 million people eligible for Medicaid enrolled. That's all that is needed. That leaves 22 million.
there was NO NEED for Obamacare to cover these 14 million all they need do is REGISTER!!!
http://coverageforall.org/pdf/BC-BS_Uninsured-America.pdf
But either Obama didn't know this which is gross incompetency OR he did and ignored to get Obamacare passed! HYPED the numbers.

3) Finally why should 18 million people under age 34 that make over $50,000 that DIDN"T WANT their employers coverage be FORCED to buy
something they don't want OR NEED?
Just to pitch to the idiots of America as Gruber said it took the "Stupidity of the American Voter" to pass there were NEVER 46 million that
were legal, or wanted health insurance and all needed to be done for 14 million was get them registered! That's it!
The fact is subtract that 42 million from 46 million and you come up with less then 4 million!

There NEVER were 46 million uninsured but less then 4 million that truly want and need health insurance.

But Obama is destroying health care financing to the degree that this is what the largest insurance companies now say.
The head of the third-biggest U.S. health insurer said he has “serious concerns” about whether or not Obamacare’s new markets are sustainable, echoing criticism from other top for-profit insurers.

“We continue to have serious concerns about the sustainability of the public exchanges,” Aetna Inc. Chief Executive Officer Mark Bertolini said on a call Monday while discussing the company’s fourth-quarter results. “We remain concerned about the overall stability of the risk pool.”

UnitedHealth has said that it will probably take about $1 billion in losses on Obamacare plans when 2015 and 2016 results are combined.
The company has that it should have stayed out of the market longer, and that it may quit the program in 2017.

Aetna CEO Has `Serious Concerns' About Obamacare Sustainability

Uh.. I think you meant that as a response to someone else.

Did you not write: "Basically giving the insurance companies everything they get with ACA with nothing in return."

And my response was to show you how the insurance companies are NOT happy with ACA even though you wrote the above???

Still not sure how it relates to my post. My point was that Cruz, the rest of the Republicans, and the Democrats with the exception of Sanders, have no intention of making any meaningful changes to health care policy.

That is completely untrue. They don't intend to make any changes that you LIKE, perhaps, but that's not the same as "no meaningful changes". There is no reason whatsoever to believe that Cruz, for example, will not make every effort to keep his campaign promises, and one of his major promises is a repeal of Obamacare and institution of a free-market healthcare system. Again, it might not be what you like or want, but no one can say that that isn't "meaningful change".

 

[dblack]

Bernie is for single payer - Medicare for all. I've read what I can find from Cruz on healthcare, but I haven't seen anything beyond the usual Republican "alternative", which just involved changing the individual mandate into tax incentives and getting rid of guaranteed issues. Basically giving the insurance companies everything they get with ACA with nothing in return.

Once again...ignorance on display!
How many people do you think are "uninsured" before Obamacare?
Obama lied to you when before ACA he said:
Obama sold ACA on the premise there were in his words: "I don’t have to explain to you that nearly 46 million Americans don’t have health insurance coverage today. In the wealthiest nation on Earth, 46 million of our fellow citizens have no coverage.”
BUT when you look at what constituted this "46 million"... here are the FACTS...
not made up numbers as Obama used to lie about and depended on as Gruber said the "Stupidity of the American Voter"....

1) 10 million Obama counted were not Americans... not citizens per the Census
Proof: Income, Poverty and Health Insurance Coverage in the United States: 2009 - Income & Wealth - Newsroom - U.S. Census Bureau
Now since you asked for more current data:
Although the flow of undocumented immigration to the United States has slowed in recent years, as of March 2010 there were still an estimated 11.2 million undocumented immigrants in the country.. Undocumented Immigrants, Left Out Of Health Reform, Likely To Continue To Grow As Share Of The Uninsured
AND NOT ONE of these 11.2 million illegal immigrants are to have any health insurance especially under Obamacare!
So that knocks at least according to the 2009 census 10 million from the 46 million he lied as calling them "Americans"!

2) 14 million that were Eligible for MEDICAID BEFORE ACA!
Obama failed to get 14 million people eligible for Medicaid enrolled. That's all that is needed. That leaves 22 million.
there was NO NEED for Obamacare to cover these 14 million all they need do is REGISTER!!!
http://coverageforall.org/pdf/BC-BS_Uninsured-America.pdf
But either Obama didn't know this which is gross incompetency OR he did and ignored to get Obamacare passed! HYPED the numbers.

3) Finally why should 18 million people under age 34 that make over $50,000 that DIDN"T WANT their employers coverage be FORCED to buy
something they don't want OR NEED?
Just to pitch to the idiots of America as Gruber said it took the "Stupidity of the American Voter" to pass there were NEVER 46 million that
were legal, or wanted health insurance and all needed to be done for 14 million was get them registered! That's it!
The fact is subtract that 42 million from 46 million and you come up with less then 4 million!

There NEVER were 46 million uninsured but less then 4 million that truly want and need health insurance.

But Obama is destroying health care financing to the degree that this is what the largest insurance companies now say.
The head of the third-biggest U.S. health insurer said he has “serious concerns” about whether or not Obamacare’s new markets are sustainable, echoing criticism from other top for-profit insurers.

“We continue to have serious concerns about the sustainability of the public exchanges,” Aetna Inc. Chief Executive Officer Mark Bertolini said on a call Monday while discussing the company’s fourth-quarter results. “We remain concerned about the overall stability of the risk pool.”

UnitedHealth has said that it will probably take about $1 billion in losses on Obamacare plans when 2015 and 2016 results are combined.
The company has that it should have stayed out of the market longer, and that it may quit the program in 2017.

Aetna CEO Has `Serious Concerns' About Obamacare Sustainability

Uh.. I think you meant that as a response to someone else.

Did you not write: "Basically giving the insurance companies everything they get with ACA with nothing in return."

And my response was to show you how the insurance companies are NOT happy with ACA even though you wrote the above???

Still not sure how it relates to my post. My point was that Cruz, the rest of the Republicans, and the Democrats with the exception of Sanders, have no intention of making any meaningful changes to health care policy.

That is completely untrue. They don't intend to make any changes that you LIKE, perhaps, but that's not the same as "no meaningful changes". There is no reason whatsoever to believe that Cruz, for example, will not make every effort to keep his campaign promises, and one of his major promises is a repeal of Obamacare and institution of a free-market healthcare system. Again, it might not be what you like or want, but no one can say that that isn't "meaningful change".

No, I've read his proposals, and they don't make any meaningful changes. They "replace" the individual mandate with tax incentives. That's the same thing with a different name. The only meaningful change Cruz intends to make is getting rid of guarantee issue which is fine in-and-of itself (it's an irrational requirement). But guarantee issue is the justification for the mandate/tax-incentives. Without, there's no reason to gift the insurance industry with mandated customers.

 

[dblack]

If a Republican wants to get my attention, they'll propose removing the tax incentives for employer provided health insurance.

 

[Moonglow]

Here's part of the problem. American is too damn FAT. Walk into any store or restaurant, and I guarantee you over half is overweight. And not just a little overweight either. Hell, we have prime time tv that glamourises obesity. If America can just do the basic things to stay healthy, health care costs will drop dramatically.

There ya go! We need a fitness mandate.

NO, but give me a insurance discount for being in shape.

Many private insurance companies do, in fact, give you a break on your premiums for meeting certain health benchmarks. And guess what? Advocates of government control of healthcare bitch and moan about the whole idea because it's "unfair" to "discriminate" against people who are trying their dead level best to kill themselves early with their bad habits.

It's as if people claimed that lower car insurance premiums for people who drive carefully and don't get in accidents is "discriminatory" against people who drive like a bat out of hell. OF COURSE it discriminates against those making bad choices, and it damned well OUGHT to.

Evidently you have never used VA care..

 

[Arianrhod]

...please stop trying to project my very personal contempt and disdain for you onto everyone else.

Unnecessary.

 

[healthmyths]

Will answer the poll above when I listen to the debate about the issue coming from the candidate that says it best when confronted about the issue.

While I'd love to be proven wrong, I don't see my original answer changing. Sanders is the only one with any credible plans to reform healthcare.

Sanders believes as you do that clap trap there are 46 million uninsured which I've proven was a false number!
Then Sanders totally ignores what complete government control over health would do to 1,400 companies that pay $100 billion a year in Federal/state/local taxes.
Has he took THAT number into consideration? Or the 450,000 people would be unemployed? Where will that be made up under Sanders one payer plan?
Finally death panels WILL come into existence. See you and others were totally ignorant of the prime architect of Obama care was
Ezekiel Emanuel, archiect of Obamacare and brother of former Obama chief of staff Rahm Emanuel, appeared on Morning Joe to promote an article he wrote in The Atlantic where he explained why 75 is the ideal age to die.
EZEKIEL EMANUEL: One of the big American beliefs is this thing called compression of morbidity. That, you know, we're just going to be healthy, healthy, healthy, fall off the cliff, and we won't have any disability.

The reality is, that hasn't been, in the last 25 years, the way it's gone. Disabilities increase every time we live longer. Then there's Alzheimer's. At 85, between a third and half of the people have Alzheimer's. Does that sound so desirable to you to live to 100?
Obamacare Architect Ezekiel Emanuel: 75 An Ideal Age To Die

 

[dblack]

Will answer the poll above when I listen to the debate about the issue coming from the candidate that says it best when confronted about the issue.

While I'd love to be proven wrong, I don't see my original answer changing. Sanders is the only one with any credible plans to reform healthcare.

Sanders believes as you do that ...

Sanders and I are worlds apart. You're confused.

 

[Silhouette]

Many private insurance companies do, in fact, give you a break on your premiums for meeting certain health benchmarks. And guess what? Advocates of government control of healthcare bitch and moan about the whole idea because it's "unfair" to "discriminate" against people who are trying their dead level best to kill themselves early with their bad habits.

It's as if people claimed that lower car insurance premiums for people who drive carefully and don't get in accidents is "discriminatory" against people who drive like a bat out of hell. OF COURSE it discriminates against those making bad choices, and it damned well OUGHT to.

Ah, spoken like a health insurance adjuster. You're all heart. Imagine how this poster would feel if they got hit by a drunk driver and their adjuster managed to find a loophole to deny coverage to him...yeah..yeah buddy...soak that in for a minute...

I have a very funny but absolutely true story to share here. I know of a really shady lawyer who formally worked as a health insurance adjuster. He quit that job because he wanted to rise up morally. So he became a shady lawyer as in improvement..

Baby steps...

 

[healthmyths]

Many private insurance companies do, in fact, give you a break on your premiums for meeting certain health benchmarks. And guess what? Advocates of government control of healthcare bitch and moan about the whole idea because it's "unfair" to "discriminate" against people who are trying their dead level best to kill themselves early with their bad habits.

It's as if people claimed that lower car insurance premiums for people who drive carefully and don't get in accidents is "discriminatory" against people who drive like a bat out of hell. OF COURSE it discriminates against those making bad choices, and it damned well OUGHT to.

Ah, spoken like a health insurance adjuster. You're all heart. Imagine how this poster would feel if they got hit by a drunk driver and their adjuster managed to find a loophole to deny coverage to him...yeah..yeah buddy...soak that in for a minute...

I have a very funny but absolutely true story to share here. I know of a really shady lawyer who formally worked as a health insurance adjuster. He quit that job because he wanted to rise up morally. So he became a shady lawyer as in improvement..

Baby steps...

ONE story! Anecdotal! Look at this stupidity. Tell me why anyone with common sense would do this? But if he falls would you blame the
insurance company from questioning the claim!

 

[Cecilie1200]

Once again...ignorance on display!
How many people do you think are "uninsured" before Obamacare?
Obama lied to you when before ACA he said:
Obama sold ACA on the premise there were in his words: "I don’t have to explain to you that nearly 46 million Americans don’t have health insurance coverage today. In the wealthiest nation on Earth, 46 million of our fellow citizens have no coverage.”
BUT when you look at what constituted this "46 million"... here are the FACTS...
not made up numbers as Obama used to lie about and depended on as Gruber said the "Stupidity of the American Voter"....

1) 10 million Obama counted were not Americans... not citizens per the Census
Proof: Income, Poverty and Health Insurance Coverage in the United States: 2009 - Income & Wealth - Newsroom - U.S. Census Bureau
Now since you asked for more current data:
Although the flow of undocumented immigration to the United States has slowed in recent years, as of March 2010 there were still an estimated 11.2 million undocumented immigrants in the country.. Undocumented Immigrants, Left Out Of Health Reform, Likely To Continue To Grow As Share Of The Uninsured
AND NOT ONE of these 11.2 million illegal immigrants are to have any health insurance especially under Obamacare!
So that knocks at least according to the 2009 census 10 million from the 46 million he lied as calling them "Americans"!

2) 14 million that were Eligible for MEDICAID BEFORE ACA!
Obama failed to get 14 million people eligible for Medicaid enrolled. That's all that is needed. That leaves 22 million.
there was NO NEED for Obamacare to cover these 14 million all they need do is REGISTER!!!
http://coverageforall.org/pdf/BC-BS_Uninsured-America.pdf
But either Obama didn't know this which is gross incompetency OR he did and ignored to get Obamacare passed! HYPED the numbers.

3) Finally why should 18 million people under age 34 that make over $50,000 that DIDN"T WANT their employers coverage be FORCED to buy
something they don't want OR NEED?
Just to pitch to the idiots of America as Gruber said it took the "Stupidity of the American Voter" to pass there were NEVER 46 million that
were legal, or wanted health insurance and all needed to be done for 14 million was get them registered! That's it!
The fact is subtract that 42 million from 46 million and you come up with less then 4 million!

There NEVER were 46 million uninsured but less then 4 million that truly want and need health insurance.

But Obama is destroying health care financing to the degree that this is what the largest insurance companies now say.
The head of the third-biggest U.S. health insurer said he has “serious concerns” about whether or not Obamacare’s new markets are sustainable, echoing criticism from other top for-profit insurers.

“We continue to have serious concerns about the sustainability of the public exchanges,” Aetna Inc. Chief Executive Officer Mark Bertolini said on a call Monday while discussing the company’s fourth-quarter results. “We remain concerned about the overall stability of the risk pool.”

UnitedHealth has said that it will probably take about $1 billion in losses on Obamacare plans when 2015 and 2016 results are combined.
The company has that it should have stayed out of the market longer, and that it may quit the program in 2017.

Aetna CEO Has `Serious Concerns' About Obamacare Sustainability

Uh.. I think you meant that as a response to someone else.

Did you not write: "Basically giving the insurance companies everything they get with ACA with nothing in return."

And my response was to show you how the insurance companies are NOT happy with ACA even though you wrote the above???

Still not sure how it relates to my post. My point was that Cruz, the rest of the Republicans, and the Democrats with the exception of Sanders, have no intention of making any meaningful changes to health care policy.

That is completely untrue. They don't intend to make any changes that you LIKE, perhaps, but that's not the same as "no meaningful changes". There is no reason whatsoever to believe that Cruz, for example, will not make every effort to keep his campaign promises, and one of his major promises is a repeal of Obamacare and institution of a free-market healthcare system. Again, it might not be what you like or want, but no one can say that that isn't "meaningful change".

No, I've read his proposals, and they don't make any meaningful changes. They "replace" the individual mandate with tax incentives. That's the same thing with a different name. The only meaningful change Cruz intends to make is getting rid of guarantee issue which is fine in-and-of itself (it's an irrational requirement). But guarantee issue is the justification for the mandate/tax-incentives. Without, there's no reason to gift the insurance industry with mandated customers.

Yeah, um . . . tax incentives are NOT the same thing as a mandate. I'm thinking the source of your discontent is less a lack of meaningful change, and more a lack of comprehension. Or perhaps a determination not to.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Here's part of the problem. American is too damn FAT. Walk into any store or restaurant, and I guarantee you over half is overweight. And not just a little overweight either. Hell, we have prime time tv that glamourises obesity. If America can just do the basic things to stay healthy, health care costs will drop dramatically.

There ya go! We need a fitness mandate.

NO, but give me a insurance discount for being in shape.

Many private insurance companies do, in fact, give you a break on your premiums for meeting certain health benchmarks. And guess what? Advocates of government control of healthcare bitch and moan about the whole idea because it's "unfair" to "discriminate" against people who are trying their dead level best to kill themselves early with their bad habits.

It's as if people claimed that lower car insurance premiums for people who drive carefully and don't get in accidents is "discriminatory" against people who drive like a bat out of hell. OF COURSE it discriminates against those making bad choices, and it damned well OUGHT to.

Evidently you have never used VA care..

. . . Meaning what, precisely?

I know you think these little drive-by one sentence post bombs are the height of cleverness, but I assure you, their assumption that I'm going to read your mind - as if I could make out print that small - is merely annoying.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Many private insurance companies do, in fact, give you a break on your premiums for meeting certain health benchmarks. And guess what? Advocates of government control of healthcare bitch and moan about the whole idea because it's "unfair" to "discriminate" against people who are trying their dead level best to kill themselves early with their bad habits.

It's as if people claimed that lower car insurance premiums for people who drive carefully and don't get in accidents is "discriminatory" against people who drive like a bat out of hell. OF COURSE it discriminates against those making bad choices, and it damned well OUGHT to.

Ah, spoken like a health insurance adjuster. You're all heart. Imagine how this poster would feel if they got hit by a drunk driver and their adjuster managed to find a loophole to deny coverage to him...yeah..yeah buddy...soak that in for a minute...

I have a very funny but absolutely true story to share here. I know of a really shady lawyer who formally worked as a health insurance adjuster. He quit that job because he wanted to rise up morally. So he became a shady lawyer as in improvement..

Baby steps...

Oh, for Christ's sake, yet ANOTHER liberal oldie but a goodie. "You have offered common sense, therefore you're MEAN, and look at this utterly meaningless hypothetical sob story that you OBVIOUSLY wouldn't be on the right side of!"

I have a very funny but absolutely true story to share here. You had no response, so you posted a bunch of extraneous bullshit to deflect and try to guilt-trip me into silence. And then I didn't care.

True story.

 

[Cecilie1200]

...please stop trying to project my very personal contempt and disdain for you onto everyone else.

Unnecessary.

Well, it's true that most people have you on ignore, and so don't realize that you're trying to equate them with dog shit.

 

[g5000]

Canada has already figured all this math out and their economy is stronger than ours as a result. They also have capitalism and free healthcare. They also require a certain percentage of assembly be done by human workers.

Bolding mine.

That's just...DUMB. Seriously dumb.

A century ago, we employed 50 percent of our population in agriculture to feed our nation.

Now, due to the wonders of technology, it only takes about 3 percent of our population to feed us, and they are producing more food than in all of human history.

What would you make of someone decrying the loss of agriculture jobs who felt we needed to employ 50 percent of the country on farms?

You'd say there were seriously misguided, yes?

It's the same thing with these demagogues and manufacturing.