Allow evil or eliminate choice?

[Madeline]

I disagree. I think God makes us what we are -- humans, with Dignity. No prison we do not make for ourselves can ever rob us of that.

But even if you are right, what is one person's misery compared to relief for All Humanity?

 

[RetiredGySgt]

I disagree. I think God makes us what we are -- humans, with Dignity. No prison we do not make for ourselves can ever rob us of that.

But even if you are right, what is one person's misery compared to relief for All Humanity?

Once again what you call relief is anything but. It is slavery.

 

[Madeline]

A world without evil enslaves those who live in it? Isn't that an odd POV for a man who believes there will someday be a Heaven on Earth?

 

[Madeline]

This really is a great philosophical question.

It sure is. Avatar has provoked some deep thought with this one.

If I could have aborted Hitler or Stalin or Pol Pot etc. before they were born, I would have --even if the deal was I'd go to Hell for it. I cannot understand the selfishness that seems to underlie the replies of many others.

 

[Polk]

I can see both sides of the argument pretty clearly and think they have compelling points (which is increasingly rare these days).

 

[RetiredGySgt]

This really is a great philosophical question.

It sure is. Avatar has provoked some deep thought with this one.

If I could have aborted Hitler or Stalin or Pol Pot etc. before they were born, I would have --even if the deal was I'd go to Hell for it. I cannot understand the selfishness that seems to underlie the replies of many others.

THAT was not the question. The question is would you endure slavery to eliminate evil in the world. Would you consign every person to that same slavery to eliminate evil in the world.

In that world there would be no hell as NO ONE would be free to chose not to be a follower of God. Everyone would be forced to believe in one God and no other. They would be forced to live by every edict he commanded. All without EVER having been free to make that choice for themselves.

 

[pans trogladyta]

This really is a great philosophical question.

It sure is. Avatar has provoked some deep thought with this one.

If I could have aborted Hitler or Stalin or Pol Pot etc. before they were born, I would have --even if the deal was I'd go to Hell for it. I cannot understand the selfishness that seems to underlie the replies of many others.

THAT was not the question. The question is would you endure slavery to eliminate evil in the world. Would you consign every person to that same slavery to eliminate evil in the world.

In that world there would be no hell as NO ONE would be free to chose not to be a follower of God. Everyone would be forced to believe in one God and no other. They would be forced to live by every edict he commanded. All without EVER having been free to make that choice for themselves.

Well, given what the penalty is for choosing "poorly", The end result is the same in either case. Unless you make the "right" choice.

 

[Madeline]

I was thinking about good and evil and personal choice and I thought it would be an interesting question to ask you if you would give up your freedom to choose if it meant evil no longer existed?

RetiredGySgt, you are wrong. Avatar's hypothetical provides that only one person goes into twilight having given up free will. The Rest of Humanity simply no longer is afflicted with evil. They still have free will...leading to the interesting question, how long before evil re-emerged? A nano-second? An eternity?

That is why I asked in an earlier post what becomes of the evil people in Avatar's hypothetical? Reformed or vaporized?

Personally I think at some point, redemption is no longer possible. Yet another reason I am not a christian.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

It sure is. Avatar has provoked some deep thought with this one.

If I could have aborted Hitler or Stalin or Pol Pot etc. before they were born, I would have --even if the deal was I'd go to Hell for it. I cannot understand the selfishness that seems to underlie the replies of many others.

THAT was not the question. The question is would you endure slavery to eliminate evil in the world. Would you consign every person to that same slavery to eliminate evil in the world.

In that world there would be no hell as NO ONE would be free to chose not to be a follower of God. Everyone would be forced to believe in one God and no other. They would be forced to live by every edict he commanded. All without EVER having been free to make that choice for themselves.

Well, given what the penalty is for choosing "poorly", The end result is the same in either case. Unless you make the "right" choice.

The Bible is clear. ONLY those that CHOSE to be evil will be condemned. That means the old argument about picking the one correct religion is not applicable. So long as one is true and believes in God the man made church is irrelevant. Those never taught the word will also be spared and given a chance to learn the true path.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

I was thinking about good and evil and personal choice and I thought it would be an interesting question to ask you if you would give up your freedom to choose if it meant evil no longer existed?

RetiredGySgt, you are wrong. Avatar's hypothetical provides that only one person goes into twilight having given up free will. The Rest of Humanity simply no longer is afflicted with evil. They still have free will...leading to the interesting question, how long before evil re-emerged? A nano-second? An eternity?

That is why I asked in an earlier post what becomes of the evil people in Avatar's hypothetical? Reformed or vaporized?

Personally I think at some point, redemption is no longer possible. Yet another reason I am not a christian.

That is NOT his question.

 

[pans trogladyta]

The Bible is clear. ONLY those that CHOSE to be evil will be condemned.

The bible isn't clear on anything. Define "evil" in the biblical sense.

That means the old argument about picking the one correct religion is not applicable.

So I could pick wiccan and still be saved? How about atheism? Is the belief in no god a religion?

So long as one is true and believes in God the man made church is irrelevant.

Which god? There are so many. Akenaton only believed in one, is he saved?

Those never taught the word will also be spared and given a chance to learn the true path.

Why not just have appeared earlier and saved everyone the grief and trouble?

 

[RetiredGySgt]

The Bible is clear. ONLY those that CHOSE to be evil will be condemned.

The bible isn't clear on anything. Define "evil" in the biblical sense.

That means the old argument about picking the one correct religion is not applicable.

So I could pick wiccan and still be saved? How about atheism? Is the belief in no god a religion?

So long as one is true and believes in God the man made church is irrelevant.

Which god? There are so many. Akenaton only believed in one, is he saved?

Those never taught the word will also be spared and given a chance to learn the true path.

Why not just have appeared earlier and saved everyone the grief and trouble?

One must have a common starting point. The following is required to be saved.

A belief in Jehovah

A belief in Jesus as the son of Jehovah.

A belief that Jesus sacrificed himself to save all mankind.

A belief that if one asks for forgiveness in Jesus name one can be saved.

 

[Madeline]

I was thinking about good and evil and personal choice and I thought it would be an interesting question to ask you if you would give up your freedom to choose if it meant evil no longer existed?

RetiredGySgt, you are wrong. Avatar's hypothetical provides that only one person goes into twilight having given up free will. The Rest of Humanity simply no longer is afflicted with evil. They still have free will...leading to the interesting question, how long before evil re-emerged? A nano-second? An eternity?

That is why I asked in an earlier post what becomes of the evil people in Avatar's hypothetical? Reformed or vaporized?

Personally I think at some point, redemption is no longer possible. Yet another reason I am not a christian.

That is NOT his question.

Okay, I'll bite. What do you think he asked, RetiredGySgt?

 

[RetiredGySgt]

RetiredGySgt, you are wrong. Avatar's hypothetical provides that only one person goes into twilight having given up free will. The Rest of Humanity simply no longer is afflicted with evil. They still have free will...leading to the interesting question, how long before evil re-emerged? A nano-second? An eternity?

That is why I asked in an earlier post what becomes of the evil people in Avatar's hypothetical? Reformed or vaporized?

Personally I think at some point, redemption is no longer possible. Yet another reason I am not a christian.

That is NOT his question.

Okay, I'll bite. What do you think he asked, RetiredGySgt?

ASK HIM. He wants to know if you would give up all freedom for all people to ensure no evil.

 

[Madeline]

The Bible is clear. ONLY those that CHOSE to be evil will be condemned.

The bible isn't clear on anything. Define "evil" in the biblical sense.

So I could pick wiccan and still be saved? How about atheism? Is the belief in no god a religion?

Which god? There are so many. Akenaton only believed in one, is he saved?

Those never taught the word will also be spared and given a chance to learn the true path.

Why not just have appeared earlier and saved everyone the grief and trouble?

One must have a common starting point. The following is required to be saved.

A belief in Jehovah

A belief in Jesus as the son of Jehovah.

A belief that Jesus sacrificed himself to save all mankind.

A belief that if one asks for forgiveness in Jesus name one can be saved.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/religion-and-ethics/119042-why-i-am-not-a-christian.html

Let's not hijack this excellent thread, folks. I'm sure Avatar would appreciate a discussion of the Op. You can debate the merits of christianity elsewhere.

 

[LuckyDan]

The bible isn't clear on anything. Define "evil" in the biblical sense.

So I could pick wiccan and still be saved? How about atheism? Is the belief in no god a religion?

Which god? There are so many. Akenaton only believed in one, is he saved?



Why not just have appeared earlier and saved everyone the grief and trouble?

One must have a common starting point. The following is required to be saved.

A belief in Jehovah

A belief in Jesus as the son of Jehovah.

A belief that Jesus sacrificed himself to save all mankind.

A belief that if one asks for forgiveness in Jesus name one can be saved.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/religion-and-ethics/119042-why-i-am-not-a-christian.html

Let's not hijack this excellent thread, folks. I'm sure Avatar would appreciate a discussion of the Op. You can debate the merits of christianity elsewhere.

You, Madeline, can't seem to debate chrisitianity anywhere.

 

[Polk]

I'm reminded of a passage from Paradise Lost:

Here at least
we shall be free; the Almighty hath not built
Here for his envy, will not drive us hence:
Here we may reign secure, and in my choice
to reign is worth ambition though in Hell:
Better to reign in Hell, than serve in Heaven.

Not saying that's what I think, just agreement or disagreement with that is key to this discussion.

 

[rdean]

I was thinking about good and evil and personal choice and I thought it would be an interesting question to ask you if you would give up your freedom to choose if it meant evil no longer existed?

While I believe the members of the Republican Party aren't necessarily evil, I believe that Party does "evil" in the name of "good".

 

[syrenn]

I was thinking about good and evil and personal choice and I thought it would be an interesting question to ask you if you would give up your freedom to choose if it meant evil no longer existed?

Here is the first problem, good and evil.

What IS good and evil? What is good to some is a foul evil to others. What some perceive as evil is good to the rest. Just where is the line drawn? Is it a sliding scale of good and evil, a fixed definite, or something that is added to as need wants?


Smoking, many people enjoy smoking but it causes cancer.
Drugs? Cant be fun but also very dangerous.

Is sickness eliminated in the equation of evil?

Sex for recreational purposes? For arguments sake lets say all STD's are out of the question. Just pure fun no consequence sex. How about jealousy is that evil?

Music and Art? Throughout the ages anything new, different or modern was considered evil.

Video games? Could go both ways good or evil.

Freedom of speak? Big one. Are there words that are evil? Language hook ups that are off limits? Inflection of words?

Dirty looks at people?

Castor oil remember that one. Is that evil?


Alright I will stop, I think you get the idea. I still think I will stick to free will and evil.

 

[syrenn]

I was thinking about good and evil and personal choice and I thought it would be an interesting question to ask you if you would give up your freedom to choose if it meant evil no longer existed?

While I believe the members of the Republican Party aren't necessarily evil, I believe that Party does "evil" in the name of "good".

rdean, must everything with you be republican or democrat? And I still think that jesus was a republican because he was against unfair taxes!